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Ex-Bush Adviser Peter Wehner Discusses Why GOP Is Still Loyal to Trump; Is Biden Ignoring Netanyahu, Israel Wonders Why No Call Yet; NY Democratic Leaders Draft Bill to Repeal Cuomo's Emergency Powers; Maskless Chats: Floor Moments with Senator Rand Paul. Aired 1:30-2p ET.

Aired February 15, 2021 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00]

PETER WEHNER, SERVED IN THREE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATIONS: And so these lawmakers know that, and they know if they speak up against Trump, they will be targeted. Others, it's cynical ambition. People like Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz.

I imagine for people like Rob Portman, who is retiring, there are probably residual tribal effects, that he is a member of the Republican Party, wants to go out in good graces.

But the bottom line here is this was a key moral moment for the Republican Party. And with the exception of the seven honorable Senators and 10 Republicans, they failed the test, and there's going to be a price to that.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I think, you know, history may judge this, especially as you're describing it, as a Rubicon. This is something that's dividing folks in the Republican party.

I wonder if you think about the fact, if there was ever a time for Republicans to break with President Trump -- He just lost his re- election. He was impeached for a second time.

If there was ever a time, even though it would be painful to break with him, this would have been the time. And yet they still aren't.

WEHNER: Yes, look, I agree. That was really one of the arguments I made. This was the chance for as clean a break as they were going to get.

I actually think for their own interest as a party they should have broken with him. But they couldn't summon the will to do it.

I do think there's a cautionary tale in this, which is if you feed the base of your party lies day after day, year after year, and you think at the end of that you can control that base of that party, you're wrong. John Kennedy said if you ride the back of it, you'll wind up inside.

The other thing I would say, Brianna, I think there's partly a psychological dimension to this, which is we know when human beings make immoral accommodations throughout their life, they begin to cut ethical corners.

The more you do that and the longer you do that, the easier it is to do it, and the easier it is to do that on moral questions.

If this vote -- let's say if January 6 had happened in 2016, as opposed to 2021, I think Trump would have been convicted, because I don't think that the corruption would have gone as far as it has in the Republican Party.

It's a warning for really all people. When you begin to make immoral accommodations on important questions, there's a price to pay.

KEILAR: Senator Lindsey Graham says that Lara Trump, who is the daughter-in-law of former President Donald Trump, is the future of the GOP. I know that isn't your hope. But is that the truth, that Lara Trump and voices like hers are the future of the GOP?

WEHNER: Well, it might be. I think it's an open question. And it's too early to tell because we're only a matter of weeks after Trump left office.

I think this is the battle for the soul of the Republican Party.

The good news, to the extent there's good news, is you do have people like Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney, Ben Sasse -- Mitt Romney has been a real tower of strength -- speaking up.

If you had a secret ballot on conviction of Trump, he absolutely would have been convicted. That's both good and bad.

It's good because it shows that at least among Republican lawmakers and the so-called establishment, they understand who Trump is.

The bad news is it shows that they're still cowering and it illustrates a problem with the base.

I think this is going to be a huge battle. And there's a historical precedent, although it wasn't as acute as it is now, but that was with the Tea Party in 2010.

Remember that the Tea Party, the Republican Party was feeding that base and they began to nominate extremist figures in the Senate and the primaries, and they got destroyed in general elections in states Republicans should have won.

The result of that is that Mitch McConnell intervened in the primary process and basically said, we're going to have a filter system.

I think the same thing now has to happen. It's one of many things that has to happen for the Republican Party, that there needs to be a counter narrative and a counter effort among responsible Republicans to begin to police their own ranks.

That begins, but it doesn't end, with the selection of primary candidates.

Marjorie Taylor Greene was a great example. Jim Jordan wanted a QAnon member to be in Congress along with Mark Meadows' wife. There was no reason to stop that. She won the primary and she won the general election.

That kind of thing can't happen again. It's up to Republicans to make efforts to stop it.

KEILAR: We'll see if they do, Peter.

Peter Wehner, thank you, it's great to see you.

WEHNER: Thanks. Thanks for having me on.

KEILAR: Is President Biden ghosting the prime minister of Israel? He still hasn't called Netanyahu, which is raises questions whether there could be a motive behind this delay.

[13:34:52]

Plus, the curious case of Senator Rand Paul, from clapping to passing notes, we roll the tape on his behavior during the impeachment trial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: President Biden has been in office for more than three weeks, and yet he still hasn't called Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, despite Israel being the U.S.'s closest ally in the Middle East.

[13:40:03]

The White House said a call is coming soon, and Netanyahu says he expects a call soon.

But the delay prompted a snarky sounding tweet last week from Israel's former ambassador to the U.N. in which he called out President Biden for speaking with so many other world leaders and not his guy.

Here's a list of phone calls that have been made so far: Canada, Mexico, the U.K., India, France, Germany, Japan, Australia, South Korea and Russia and China, but not Israel.

CNN's Sam Kiley has been reporting on this.

Sam, why hasn't Biden called?

SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, no love lost I think between the new Biden administration and the old Obama administration and one Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister.

Who, Brianna, you'll recall went around Barack Obama to address both Houses in the U.S. capitol to object to the very painstakingly negotiated JCPOA, the nuclear deal with Iran.

That angered the Obama administration, of which Joe Biden was a part. When Biden visited here, Benjamin Netanyahu announced the building of a vast number of Israeli settlements on the West Bank in the three weeks.

In the beginning of this year, they announced, the Israeli's plans for another 3,000 homes on the West Bank, Jewish homes built in what the international community calls occupied territory.

That said, Biden has said that members of his administration, the national security adviser, defense secretary and secretary of state have all been in touch with their counterparts. They just haven't made the main call to the main man.

And I think that's part of the Biden administration's efforts to reset the relationship with Israel, which certainly, as far as they're concerned, it was out of whack under the Trump administration when there was a red line straight through to the Oval Office -- Brianna?

KEILAR: It certainly is going to be different during the Biden administration.

Sam Kiley, live for us from Jerusalem, thank you.

Coming up, we roll the tape on a maskless Senator Rand Paul and some of his interesting caught-on-camera actions during the impeachment trial.

And just in, New York Democrats consider stripping Governor Cuomo of some powers after allegations of covering up COVID-19 nursing home deaths.

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[13:46:54]

KEILAR: Democratic leaders in New York are actively discussing drafting a bill to repeal Governor Andrew Cuomo's expanded executive powers, and it could be introduced as soon as this week.

This is part of a growing backlash against the governor after a damning report found his administration undercounted nursing home deaths.

One of Cuomo's top aides said in a call to Democratic lawmakers, according to a source familiar with the call, that the administration delayed the critical data out of concern about a possible federal investigation by the Trump administration.

The state counted nursing home deaths as residents who actually died inside of a nursing home and not after they had been moved to a hospital elsewhere, even if they contracted the virus in the nursing home.

His administration only corrected those numbers after the state A.G. issued a report detailing the undercount.

Jon Campbell is the New York State team editor at the "USA Today Network."

Thank you so much for being with us, Jon.

Give us a sense of how big the backlash is at this point, because we understand state Republican leaders are also considering a special session?

JON CAMPBELL, NEW YORK STATE TEAM EDITOR, "USA TODAY NETWORK." The backlash has been pretty significant, and not so much with the

Republicans. The Republicans have been pushing back on the governor for his handling of COVID-19 in nursing homes for months now.

But, really, you've seen Democrats who control the majority in both the Senate and the assembly.

You've seen them come on board and really push for -- some are pushing to rescind his emergency powers, which he's used to implement any number of restrictions and rules in New York, and others have -- are pushing for, you know, further than that.

They want subpoenas issued. They want a full investigation. And it all stems back to this conversation that Ms. DeRosa, his top aide, had with lawmakers privately on Wednesday.

KEILAR: Yes, because she admitted on this phone call that you mentioned that the administration withheld real numbers to avoid a possible investigation by the Trump administration, by the Trump DOJ. They would call that perhaps a delay, right?

But critics and -- we have to be clear, this isn't just Republicans, it's Democrats, as you said, it's family members who lost loved ones who contracted coronavirus in a nursing home but died elsewhere. They might say, that's not just a delay, that is a cover-up.

For months, this administration knew that there were people calling for the real numbers. Is it an admission of a cover-up?

CAMPBELL: Well, the Cuomo administration would say -- you know, their explanation has been since, well, you know, of course, we got hit with a letter by the DOJ under the Trump administration, and of course that had to take priority.

You have to back up a little further here. For months, reporters were pushing for that true nursing home death toll.

As you said, the state only released nursing home residents who had died in the homes themselves, but there were thousands who were transferred to a hospital and died.

That was never released by the state until that attorney general's report.

[13:50:02] So is it a cover-up? The Cuomo administration would argue, no, we had to put that on pause because the Department of Justice inquiry is a very serious thing and we had to deal with that.

But in actuality, people were begging for these numbers for months and before the DOJ letter even came in December.

KEILAR: They say all politics. Seems to be a line he has stuck to. Does that hold anymore?

CAMPBELL: Right now, the big thing you've seen is Democrats come onboard and pushback. Legislative Democrats pushing back. 14 signed on to a statement calling for emergency powers to be rescinded.

The Democratic attorney general, Letitia James, put out -- sorry, the report that faulted the Cuomo administration for underrepresenting how many died in nursing homes, how many nursing home residents died. So the politics line doesn't really hold water anymore.

That being said, the governor's supposed to speak at 2:15 today. We'll hear what he has to say.

KEILAR: We're going to track that as well.

Jon, thank you very much. We know you cover this so closely. Thank you for sharing your insights with you.

CAMPBELL: Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Coming up, discussing the fate of the controversial Trump-era postmaster general as President Biden faces pressure to shake up the leadership of the postal service.

Plus, concern over home-grown variants of the coronavirus is growing, with more than half a dozen mutations in the U.S. so far.

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[13:56:12]

KEILAR: The cameras turned on almost all day during the impeachment trial, fascinating things to watch. With cameras turned on with a full Senate floor, the people watching was one way to pass the time one way to break the time during the trial.

In the case of Rand Paul, there were some interesting moments. Maybe not the one that's gotten the most attention.

On Twitter, Senator Paul called out trolls who claimed he did not applaud during the standing ovation for Capitol Hill Officer Eugene Goodman, who may well have saved lives of Senators January 6th with his heroic actions.

Paul says, quote," There is no bigger support of the capitol police than me. They saved our lives at the ball field." He's referring to the 2017 congressional softball practice that he was present at when a shooter attack Republicans, including seriously injuring one.

And he went on to say this. "Yesterday, I stood and cheered and clapped as we awarded the Congressional Gold Medal to Officer Goodman. Any deceptive media edits are from lying scumbags."

It's not clear who he's referring to.

We took a look. Senator Paul is right. He did stand and clap during the heartfelt moment for Goodman.

Notice, as you watched, he stopped sooner than colleagues, adjusted his chair and stayed standing.

Any claim that the Senate didn't clap for Officer Goodman is flat-out wrong. He clearly he stood, clapped, honored Officer Goodman.

In the course of fact-checking the tape, we noticed other moments of note. He refused to wear a mask on the Senate floor during the days' long trial. This really stood out. As far as we could tell, all Republican and Democratic colleagues were wearing mask and all staff.

Rand Paul is a doctor, an ophthalmologist, an eye surgeon, and is, or should be well-versed in the transmission of germs. Because Rand Paul personally knows how transmissible it is because he caught it almost a year ago.

He was the first U.S. Senator to test positive. And he was criticized for not quarantining sooner after he revealed he was at an event where others tested positive.

He said he was "asymptomatic" but pushed back. He said, quote, "It was my extra precaution that led me to get tested," he said at the time.

But the science is clear. Wearing a mask keeps people safe predominantly helping them from transmitting COVID to somebody else.

Finally, it's good manners. And if there's one place where decorum reigns is the Senate chamber, as Rand Paul's colleges keep trying to impress upon him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-OH): I would like to ask Senator Paul in front of everybody to start wearing a mask from the Senate floor like the entire staff does all the time.

I wish Senator Paul would show the respect to his colleagues to wear a mask when he's on the Senate floor walking around and speaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Senator Sherrod Brown's appeal fell on deaf ears. Senator Paul kept on with his naked face.

Another moment you might have missed, if you were watching during the impeachment trial, during the chaotic moments when the House impeachment managers called for witnesses during the last day of the trial, look who approached Donald Trump's legal team.

A reminder that Rand Paul was a member of the jury in this case.

Paul first gave Trump's legal team a note. Then, naked-faced, socially non-distant, he chatted them up when the Senate was trying to figure out what they had just voted on.

[13:59:43]

Why? Was he giving advice? A pep talk? Or just discussing the weather? We asked his office, and they have not gotten back to us.

It's top of the hour. I am Brianna Keilar.