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New Day

Cuomo Accepts Some Blame; Numbers Down Sharply in U.S.; Millions Without Power in Texas. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 16, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We should note that we continue to invite Governor Cuomo on NEW DAY to answer some questions, but we have not heard back from his office.

It's great to have both of you because you are both steeped in New York state politics. You have studied this.

Errol, let me just start with you, is there a cover-up here? Was there a cover-up?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, cover-up might be too strong of a word, Alisyn, but there -- it wasn't a void. Void is certainly the wrong word. There was deliberate confutation. There was information that was not conveyed clearly. There was a misrepresentation of the situation that was going on. And it was, you know, tragically unnecessary. The most important thing is that the policy changed fairly quickly.

The governor made a mistake. The state health department, they issued an order that in the early, hectic days of the pandemic, what might have seemed reasonable, but did not work out well. The fact that we've had a number of deaths that were then sort of merged or portrayed in a way that was confusing made it hard to perceive exactly what was going on. And that's just not right.

So this is -- this is not a cover-up in the sense that, you know, people were fired or files were destroyed or anything like that. The information was out there, or at least the administration had it, they just refused to tell the public what it had a right to know.

CAMEROTA: And, Jesse, what about that? Were numbers --was the governor and his administration fudging numbers, as far as we can tell, intentionally and undercounting something?

JESSE MCKINLEY, ALBANY BUREAU CHIEF, "NEW YORK TIMES": Well, they were certainly withholding them. I mean I thought it was remarkable what the governor said yesterday was he seemed obsessed, or at least very interested in making a somewhat apology, a semi apology for the messaging on this, right? It was about, we created this void and that allowed conspiracy theories and other things to come about. But it wasn't about the actual policy, as Errol pointed out. In the policy of the government, of the governor, was not to give out

information, public information, about the toll in nursing homes, and that caused the problems.

CAMEROTA: Errol, it was hard to follow along with some of the minutia that the governor talked about yesterday in his long press conference, but what he seemed to be saying was, here were the numbers. So he was talking about yesterday, in terms of the coronavirus patients who were released from hospitals, back to nursing homes, he basically was trying to say, it didn't change the outcome.

So here's that moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): Six hundred and 13 nursing homes in the state, 365 received a person from a hospital. Of the 365 that received a person from this March 25th guidance, which was then superseded in May, 98 percent of those 365 already had COVID in their facility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What about that, Errol? What -- could something have been done differently? Did what he decided to do change the outcome?

LOUIS: Well, that's the thing that we can't really be sure of, even with that spate of numbers that you just reran.

Look, here's the problem. If people were coming from a hospital and they had COVID and they were going into a nursing home and it wasn't clear who in that nursing home had COVID, you can't necessarily attribute it to that one move. All you can do is try and get a sense of what's going on by looking at all of the numbers. And that is what people were so desperate to try and find out, that's why press organizations kept asking for the data from the administration. That's why the administration really needed to release that information. So that collectively all of us could put our heads together, we could put some data scientists on it, we could try and figure out what might be going on and, most importantly, we can tell families how to make the best decision possible about whether to remove a loved one from a nursing home and maybe try a different alternative to try and keep that person safe.

We can't know what would have happened. We can't know what should have happened. But we do know that we didn't have the right information to make those kind of decisions. And that's why people are angry with the governor.

CAMEROTA: And so, Jesse, what happens now because it doesn't sound like these state lawmakers, even Democratic lawmakers, are inclined to let this go. Here are two -- what two New York assemblywomen said during the governor's press conference. One said, watching this presser is like watching the exact example of why you tell your kids they shouldn't lie. One lie leads to another lie and another lie and then you can't remember all the lies anymore. Another one said, trash. No one believes you. So now what?

MCKINLEY: Well, I think if the mission yesterday was to try to, you know, do (INAUDIBLE) and appease lawmakers in Albany, it didn't do the trick. As you point out, the Democrats here are still quite upset. They're not only upset with what the governor said yesterday, but they're upset with the stonewall that preceded it. You know, keep in mind, even yesterday when the governor says, look, we, you know, we did delay giving information to the -- to the legislature, et cetera.

[08:35:04]

You're talking about an almost six-month delay, five to six months between the time they gave the data to the federal government and the time they finally coughed it up for the state government. So the Democrats here in Albany are upset. The Republicans have always been upset and are calling for investigations. And I think if the governor's goal yesterday was to kind of put this to bed, it didn't quite do the trick.

CAMEROTA: OK. We will continue to cover it.

Jesse McKinley, Errol Louis, thank you both very much for all of your expertise in New York politics.

MCKINLEY: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Daily new cases and hospitalizations are down sharply here in the U.S. The question is, why? Dr. Sanjay Gupta has some answers, next.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, seven day average of new coronavirus cases is down 72 percent from its peak in January. Hospitalizations at the lowest level since mid-November.

Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, I'm thrilled to be able to ask you this question.

[08:40:02]

Why? Why are the numbers dropping? It's good news that they are. It would be even better news if we could, you know, explain it and duplicate it going forward.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And if they keep going down, right? I mean if you put up that graph that you just showed about hospitalizations, clearly it's a good downward trend.

It's worth pointing out, as you can see from that graph, that it's still, you know, at or above the peak levels of where we were earlier in the year, as you mentioned. So, you know, we should give it that context. But I think there's -- you know, there's several things going on here.

And I've talked to many epidemiologists about this. You know, one is that, you know, there was this significant surge that we expected over the holidays and we are coming off of that surge. It takes some time.

I think, you know, around the country, you know, we are seeing better adherence to a lot of the things that we've been talking about for a year now, the mask wearing, the physical distancing. In some of these school studies, for example, mask adherence was well over 90 percent in the schools. That was, you know, as low as 60 percent at some point over the last year. So that certainly improved.

Also, you know, you take a look at the numbers on the screen and 27 million confirmed cases -- diagnosed cases of people being infected with coronavirus, we're probably undercounted significantly. It's probably three times that roughly. So maybe closer to 90 million people. And those people do have some level of protection. It's this idea of population immunity.

It's a little bit tougher to measure because we're not doing these antibody surveys in people. But, you know, when we talk about population immunity, that does also decrease the likelihood people will become infected or get sick and you add in the vaccinations to that and all these things, I think, make a difference.

We've got to see if the numbers continue to go down. I mean, you know, I hope for the best but prepare for the worst as they say.

CAMEROTA: Well, on that front, I mean, you know, Sanjay, we talk about this, there is that school of thought that we're about to spike again.

GUPTA: Yes. No, you know, and I think -- I think with these -- these variants and, you know, the terms, by the way, the variant is a -- is a mutated virus here. The strain are the variants that are of significance. And there have been several strains that have been of significance.

Alisyn, you know, the way that I think about this is that I think we're seeing these strains, some of them becoming more transmissible. And as a result, the numbers of people infected may go up.

But I think the same measures that we've been talking about for so many months now, hospitalizations and deaths, are the things we really have to pay attention to. So we could be in this situation where the numbers of cases do go up, but the numbers of hospitalizations as a percentage, the number of deaths as a percentage, continue to go down, if that makes sense. So it's -- the virus is still out there. You're quite right. It may be more transmissible, but it may also become less consequential as a result of all the things that we're talking about.

BERMAN: You know, one of the things that has also happened is that the number of people tested is actually going down. Now, there may be benign reasons for this. It might be because fewer people are presenting -- being sick so they don't feel the need to go get tested. But there's another theory out there that we've diverted resources to vaccinations from testing. What do you see happening with testing, Sanjay, and why is it still

important?

GUPTA: Yes. No, you're right. And I've seen this firsthand, that the -- the -- you know, it becomes the new shiny object. Everyone is talking about vaccines and testing has taken a back seat. If you look at the CDC guidelines, they say -- but, by the way, both vaccination and testing important strategies but not necessary strategies for opening schools, for example.

I still -- I've always thought testing was important. I mean data is important. And if you look at this COVID relief bill, there's $50 billion in it for testing, for widespread antigen testing around schools, around large public gatherings, things like that.

I, you know, I think it's important. And the thing that's been impressed on me over the last several months by people like Michael Minna (ph) and others is that when it comes to antigen testing, those types of tests could be quite good at answering the question people are really trying to get answered, which is not do I have the virus in my body? The question is, am I contagious? And I think that those -- you know, knowing the answer to that question before you step into a school or a large public gathering, I think, is really important. And it will continue to be important.

At some point, as the numbers continue to go down, you know, we'll be in better position overall. But, for now, testing, I think, is still critical.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, on the school front, here is the latest CDC guidance, OK. They say they need to see universal mask wearing, physical distancing, hand washing, cleaning of facilities and improved ventilation, contact tracing, isolation and quarantining.

Pardon my jaded nature, didn't we know that?

[08:45:00]

I mean haven't we known this for many months that those are the secret sauce right there?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean we could have put this graphic up about a year ago, I think, right? But I think that there is something to be said for the idea that there is now evidence behind this and plenty of examples of school systems around the country that, based on those strategies and those strategies alone, have been able to open and arguably open safely. Meaning their transmission rates are very low within schools, and much lower than the community around them.

You know, the Wisconsin study that everyone talks about quite a bit, 17 schools in rural Wisconsin. They had a nearly 40 percent lower level of transmission in the schools as compared to the community around them.

One thing that's worth pointing out is that the community at that point had really high transmission. They would have been considered in the red zone for most of the fall last year. And yet the school was able to stay safe.

I think that's the point the CDC was trying to make. And also it's also important what they didn't have on the list as we were just talking about, they didn't have testing, they didn't have vaccination.

I just want to show you quickly, if I can, this is a CO2 monitor. I don't know if you can see that or not. But this is the sort of thing that people are talking about now in schools to potentially give you an example of if you have good ventilation or not. Roughly below 1,000 in a classroom that is full of students would be adequate ventilation. This is the sort of thing you're going to start seeing as schools think about reopening.

BERMAN: That's interesting, Sanjay. I want to have one of those in a few areas I'd like to check out with that to be sure.

Thank you very much for being with us this morning.

CAMEROTA: What are you referring to?

BERMAN: Just saying (ph) six feet.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: All right, one-third of Texas residents without power this morning amid frigid temperatures. We're going to speak to one family about how they are dealing with this crisis, next.

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[08:50:55]

CAMEROTA: Developing this morning, more than 4 million customers are without power in Texas. An historic winter storm has crippled the area dumping snow and tons of ice.

Joining us now from Celina, Texas, is Ryan Rijken. He and his pregnant wife and their two little kids have been without power and heat on and off for more than 36 hours.

Ryan, how are you guys and how cold is it in Celina right now?

RYAN RIJKEN, TEXAS FATHER FACING MASSIVE POWER BLACKOUTS: You know, we're good. Thank you for asking. It's, I think the last I looked, it was negative 3. It's probably about zero right now, which is pretty uncanny for us. But we're doing pretty well as a family considering that there are some folks in the area who are doing a lot worse.

CAMEROTA: Ryan, how are you doing well as a family? Your kids are four years old and two years old. Your wife, we should mention, is eight months pregnant. You have not had heat, consistently, for the past more than 24 hours. So how are you guys dealing? RIJKEN: We're doing pretty well. It's a little frustrating. Snow is so

rare for us that it's something that we kind of cherish in some ways, right? I want to take the boys out in it. But the down side is, we, obviously, weren't prepared for the amount of snow, the energy demands. We've been going through these rolling blackouts. So we've been trying to do things to turn it into an advantage for the boys more than anything. And doing things like keeping them bundled, keeping blankets on. We've tried to lower the thermostat as much as possible to help meet the energy demands in the area. Doing things like putting towels down along the openings of doors and windows just to try and retain as much heat as possible. But it's been -- the last couple nights, overnight especially, have been a little challenging for us as parents.

CAMEROTA: Oh, I can only imagine.

What's the temperature gotten down to in your house?

RIJKEN: It's tough to say. It's tough to say just knowing, you know, the thermostat clicks off when the power goes out. So I -- you know, I imagine we're keeping it, I think, around 65 whenever the power comes on. But I would imagine it gets down into, you know, 50. I know that there are some people in the area who have said, you know, they don't have electricity or gas and it's getting down into the 30s in their homes. So I don't think that's been the case with us, thankfully, but it's definitely much colder than we would like to keep the house at, I can say that.

CAMEROTA: And what are your boys saying? I mean how are you keeping them warm?

RIJKEN: You know, for the most part, they're -- they just tell us when they're cold. We keep them bundled in blankets when they want to. They're trying to -- we're trying to keep them active, running around and playing and doing those types of things. I'm grateful -- they're young enough that I don't think they'll fully grasp what's going on. It's still a fun thing because they can see snow outside for the most part and then anything that gets kind of scary where, especially at night, where we don't have lights, they don't have night lights, it's going to be cold for sleeping, we make sure to tell them, hey, you have extra blankets. If you need anything, come find us. Here's a flashlight. The older one, we turned it into like, you get to be the keeper of the flashlight and look out for your little brother. So I think overall we're just trying to turn something that could be more negative into a positive adventure for them in trying to take that approach.

CAMEROTA: Superior parenting. That's what I'm hearing right now, Ryan. That is -- you guys are doing a great job. We are thinking of you and really praying that Texas can turn it around and that you certainly get heat and electricity back sooner than later. So we'll check back with you. Thank you very much for sharing your own family's experience.

RIJKEN: Thanks for having me on.

BERMAN: With a guitar, they should do a boy band.

CAMEROTA: That's -- that's one idea.

BERMAN: Boy band, right? Sing music about it.

All right, time now for "The Good Stuff."

A father in Louisiana hailing a pair of sanitation workers as heroes for speaking up after they spotted the car where his kidnapped 10- year-old daughter was being held.

[08:55:00]

Jermaine Lasalle's daughter Jalisa vanished while playing outside. Authorities issues an Amber Alert that evening, notifying everyone to look out for a suspicious vehicle. The next morning the two men spotted the car on their route and Jalisa was found safe. Jermaine says he can't thank them enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERMAINE LASALLE, FATHER OF MISSING CHILD: People care. People -- people do care. I'm glad that they -- they saw it, you know, and I'm hoping that they saw it, not just for my child, but for other people if things like that happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Jermaine says, since that day, he and his daughter haven't left each other's sight. He says Jalisa will be practically stuck to him now.

But good for those sanitation workers also. Just goes to show, I mean, if you see something, you know, say something. Keep your eyes open and let authorities know.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, thank God. They often do not end well.

BERMAN: Everyone down south, please stay warm. Hope the power comes back on.

Our coverage continues right after this.

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