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Conservative Radio Personality Rush Limbaugh Dies After Cancer Fight; Rep. Ritchie Torres (D-NY), Is Interviewed About Biden Rejecting The Idea Of Canceling $50,000 Student Loan Debt; WH Official: J&J Vaccine Rollout Now Expected To Be Slower Due To Miscommunication About. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired February 17, 2021 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:02]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Donald Trump is lashing out at the Senate's top Republican reminding us personal insults are his weapon of choice, and that the Republican Party is now entering a strange and uncertain test of wills and of power. Senator Mitch McConnell voted to acquit Trump at the impeachment trial. But in a Senate speech and then in interviews after that trial, he blamed the former President for the Capitol insurrection and made clear he thinks the best future course for the GOP is to leave Mr. Trump in the past.

Well, suffice to say the former President taking issue. This is just a piece of Mr. Trump's statement. Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack, and if Republican senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again. This is a big moment for our country, and we cannot let it pass by, by using third rate leaders to dictate our future.

Now don't bet on Senate Republicans dumping their leader. But the Trump-McConnell divide is a consequential dynamic now in a Republican Party full of finger pointing and dysfunction. Unlike Trump, McConnell prefers with some notable exceptions to do awkward family business in private as "The New York Times" notes today, what Mr. McConnell has not done, though, is openly declare political war on Mr. Trump in the fashion that the former President did to him on Tuesday. While telling associates he knew he would have to oppose the former President in some primaries next year, he had hoped to unify his caucus by turning attention to Mr. Biden.

With us to share her reporting and her insights, Maggie Haberman, White House correspondent for The New York Times. Maggie, you see trademark Trump and trademark McConnell so far. You know, this is great political theater. It's great political drama. The worry for Republicans is it also could have significant impact as they try to recruit candidates for 2022 and figure out how to deal with this new territory and the new President.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That's exactly right. Look, John, it sets up these two polls within the party, one is McConnell. And to be clear, while McConnell has not openly said, you know, I'm at war with Donald Trump, he has walked right up to that line. And he's a very smart political tactician and he knows Donald Trump well at this point. He knew that he was going to provoke a reaction with what he said. I don't know that he thinks it's bad for him, frankly, to have provoked this reaction from Donald Trump.

But you are setting up this divide within the party that I think was inevitable because Donald Trump was going to try to find a way to keep himself relevant. I do think McConnell will be a much more dominant figure certainly in the Senate caucus and in terms of, you know, trying to recruit candidates. I'm not sure what kind of recruitment Donald Trump is actually going to do. But I do think that his ability still to make news, to get attention, how long he's able to do that is going to have an impact on Republicans ability to move past him which is something McConnell clearly wants but not a majority of Republican voters want.

KING: No question about that. Maggie, apologies, I have to cut the conversation short on this subject.

We'll come back to it because of major -- breaking news just into CNN, the conservative radio talk show icon, Rush Limbaugh, passed away today at age 70, that after a long battle with lung cancer. Rush's his wife, Kathryn, announced his death at the start of Limbaugh's radio show just a short time ago. Limbaugh wasn't original beyond a doubt whether you agreed or disagreed. He created an entire industry with his voice, his brash, and his often inflammatory opinions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A pioneer of conservative media and a deeply polarizing figure, Rush Limbaugh became the most prominent political radio host in modern American history.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, CONSERVATIVE RADIO PERSONALITY: We make the complex understandable. And we do it in a way that makes you love your country not hate it.

STELTER (voice-over): He started as a top 40 D.J.

LIMBAUGH: My program exclusively designed for rich conservatives and right minded Republicans.

STELTER (voice-over): And shifted to a.m. talk radio in the 80s. His namesake show was nationally syndicated in 1988, eventually expanding to more than 600 radio stations. Fans known as Ditto Heads cheered his brazen style, while critics blasted him for racist, sexist, and other offensive speech. He accused actor Michael J. Fox of exaggerating his Parkinson's symptoms.

LIMBAUGH: He is moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act.

STELTER (voice-over): And he insulted a college student who advocated for access to birth control.

LIMBAUGH: It makes you a slut, right? It makes you a prostitute.

STELTER (voice-over): After sponsors dropped his show, Limbaugh apologized for that one.

LIMBAUGH: I again sincerely apologize to Ms. Fluke for using those two words to describe her.

STELTER (voice-over): In 2003, his stint as an NFL commentator on ESPN lasted only four weeks. He resigned in the face of public outcry after suggesting that Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb was overrated because of his race.

LIMBAUGH: The media has been very desirous of a black quarterback do well.

STELTER (voice-over): But Limbaugh's popularity survived all the controversies as well as his own personal struggles. In 2001, he suffered hearing loss from an autoimmune disease. Two years later, he admitted a drug problem.

LIMBAUGH: I am addicted to prescription pain medication.

[12:35:03]

STELTER (voice-over): Limbaugh was arrested for doctor shopping in 2006 but went to rehab and the charge was dropped. Through it all, he remained a hero to the right defending Republicans from what he said was the biased liberal media. Radio executives praised his storytelling abilities and his broadcasting talent. Limbaugh was a GOP kingmaker and a close ally of President Trump with a direct line to the White House.

LIMBAUGH: I just received clearance. The President has gotten a word to me that he is either getting funding for the border or he's shutting the whole thing down.

STELTER (voice-over): In 2020, President Trump awarded Limbaugh the Medal of Freedom at the State of the Union.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In recognition of all that you have done for our nation, the millions of people a day that you speak to and that you inspire.

STELTER (voice-over): A day before Limbaugh announced that he had been diagnosed with advanced lung cancer, and he spoke directly to his radio audience.

LIMBAUGH: Over the years, a lot of people have been very nice telling me how much this program is meant to them. But whatever that is, it pales in comparison to what you all have meant to me.

STELTER (voice-over): A conservative media icon, whose legacy will always symbolize division.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Let's bring in our chief media correspondent, Brian Stelter, who produced that famous obituary. Brian, there's just so many ways to describe Rush Limbaugh, a trailblazer without a doubt, also someone who survived even as the business and the industry went into the digital era and the cable era he just remained an icon and a presence because of the power of his voice and his ability to overcome those significant struggles, as you noted.

STELTER: Yes, absolutely. And he was on the air for about a year after announcing his lung cancer diagnosis. It was February of last year that he shared that news with his audience. He was on the air pretty much all throughout the election, taking brief breaks because of his cancer treatments. He was on the air as recently as February 2nd.

And for the past two weeks, John, he has been off the air which caused growing concern among his fans as they were fearing that this was the end of Limbaugh's life, the homepage of RushLimbaugh.com now proclaims in loving memory of Rush, the greatest of all time. And that is very much how he will be remembered in right wing media and by millions of fans who listened to him every day.

You know, in the obituary, you're talking about the many controversies and scandals in his career, many others that have been left out. But you think about the daily relationship he had with listeners. And that is really what Rush Limbaugh was about, that daily relationship, talking to people who were driving in their cars, turning on the radio at noon eastern time every day in their homes, wanting to hear from him every afternoon. The content was very polarizing.

I would argue oftentimes, it was all about grievance culture, making concerns about to be the victims. And yet he had an incredible connection to his fan base with those daily themes day in day out. It's that kind of connection that made him the most prominent broadcaster and right wing radio for decades, John.

KING: And so the question is Rush was a survivor. And to your point, when I was not in studio person, I drive across the country covering politics, especially in the heartland, you stopped somewhere, you talk to people, they would often say but Rush says, so they would repeat things that you had heard on the radio an hour before, a day before when you're listening to Rush as you drive across the country. So the impact whether you agree or disagree is unmistakable. The question now is, again, with our business in constant transition, is there a replacement for Rush? Or does -- is the talk radio piece of it fading as things become more digital and cable?

STELTER: I think in some ways Rush Limbaugh was able to defy gravity. He was able to defy radio gravity because his program was still a must listen, at a time when radio has a format that has been under increasing challenges. Will there be a replacement for him on the radio? Yes. President Trump's name has been mentioned, others as well.

But I noticed in the past two weeks reading comments from Rush's fans, you know, feeling like the felons were nothing, not nearly as strong as him. It is a very, very difficult challenge for the company that runs once his radio show. And by the way, his radio show was the foundation for hundreds of local radio stations all across the country.

I would sometimes have, John, sometimes liberals say to me, that Rush Limbaugh, you know, he is a damaging force in the United States. We must be stopped. And my reaction in those conversations would be to say, learn from him, go and listen to his show, see what he does. It is so appealing to his listeners. And then if you're a liberal activist, you can go try to do it better. If you're a progressive advocate, go try to do it better.

But the point is, there are lessons to be learned from Rush Limbaugh. And some of them are about criticism, you know, there were times where he was crass, ugly, indecent. That's absolutely true. And I'm not saying those are lessons to be learned from his radio show. But he also was able to forge connections with his listeners and give people a reason to come back every day.

[12:40:16]

And there are those sorts of skills that I would argue can be learned from Rush and from his career. And those are some of the reasons why this is a massive loss for the Republican Party, for the conservative movement because he was an icon for the party.

KING: Brian Stelter, grateful for the reporting and insights on this day. Again, Rush Limbaugh, dead at the age of 70, a talk radio icon, a voice in the Republican Party, conservative America dead now, pioneer talk radio at the age of 70. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:45:22]

KING: We all know politicians like to please people. So it was striking last night when President Biden chose to say no. Erasing student debt is a huge issue with many progressives in Congress and with a Wisconsin voter who got a chance at the town hall last night to ask a question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need student loan forgiveness beyond the potential of $10,000 your administration has proposed. We need at least a $50,000 minimum. What will you do to make that happen?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will not make that happen. I'm prepared to write off the $10,000 debt, but not 50 because I don't think I have the authority to do it by signing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: The pushback was immediate. This is wrong, says Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. We can and should do it, keep pushing. And not so coincidentally, from the Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer as well, the Biden administration has said they're reviewing options for canceling up to $50,000. Senator Elizabeth Warren and I are confident they'll agree with Obama and Trump's standards, and experts who say the administration has the authority to deliver relief.

Democratic Congressman Ritchie Torres of New York joins us now. He serves on the Financial Services Committee and as a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. Congressman, grateful for your time today. You ran on this issue. You thought it was very important that the government help out younger Americans, especially now in the pandemic who are dealing with this crushing debt. The new President says no. I'll do 10,000. And I'm willing to then, you know, rewrite the rules to make it may be easier, better standards for paying off additional debt. But he thinks the money should be better spent on helping disadvantaged children, for example, what do you say?

REP. RITCHIE TORRES (D-NY): It's a pleasure to be with you, John. You know, I have enormous respect for President Biden. He has the legal authority to cancel up to $50,000 in student debt. What is lacking is the political will. You know, there is a $1.7 trillion debt burden, weighing heavily on 43 million households across America. It's an enormous burden. Student debt has a distorting and destructive impact on some of our most important life choices, the decision about when to buy a home, when to open a business, when to have a family and get married and have children.

All of those critical life choices are delayed and distorted by the overhang of student debt. Furthermore, according to the Federal Reserve, students on average pay somewhere between 200 and $300 every month for their student debt loans, so if we were to cancel student debt, it would be the equivalent of sending the average student a $300 check. It's the only form of economic stimulus that can be enacted by executive order.

KING: You heard him last night. You say a lack of political will. I think his answer would be no, it's a different political priority. He believes some of that money would be better spent somewhere else. And if you give somebody better terms to pay off their debt, at least somebody with a college education would ultimately be able to do that as opposed to funneling money to whom he wants to go to the other end, if you will, to disadvantaged children. When you say, lack of political will, what should progressives do about it? How aggressive should you be in standing up to your new President at this moment?

TORRES: Look, it's a respectful disagreement. And it's worth noting that there's more agreement than disagreement within the Democratic Party. But I worry that we're creating a false choice where none exist. You know, many of the students in the South Bronx are single mothers, who both have children, and are paying student debt. And if we cancel student debt for those single mothers, it means putting more money in their pockets, which allows them to pay the rent, pay the bills, sustain their families.

So this, student debt cancellation is a form of economic stimulus that will strengthen families that are struggling during COVID-19. I worry that we're creating a conflict where none exist.

KING: You know, the world you live in now. You're new to Congress, but we live in this world where you have a new Democratic president. You have four or five votes to spare where you serve in the House of Representatives. Democrats have a very narrow majority. There are no votes to spare for Democrats when you move over to the United States Senate. Last night at the town hall, President Biden was quite clear. He says I don't want to defund the police. I want to give police more money and training so that they're more compassionate, especially in communities of color, more understanding. But he says no to defunding police. He says yes, I'm for raising the minimum wage. But he's made clear he's willing to negotiate a transition period. And he's also made clear that might disappear in the COVID relief plan over in the Senate.

Is -- just give me the right word here. I don't want to create a fight that doesn't exist, level of tension, level of uncertainty, a level of what between progressives and a more centrist democratic President.

TORRES: Well, I'm not clear that there's an ideological difference. The President is committed to a fixed the minimum wage. You know, my position is that we cannot allow nor should we allow a few conservative Democrats to veto the priorities and preferences of most Democrats in the Democratic conference. We promised the American people a $15 million minimum wage. We have an obligation to keep our promise.

[12:50:19]

According to the CBO, a $15 minimum wage would lift 900,000 people out of poverty. It would raise incomes for 17 million Americans, our essential workers who will often pay poverty wages, put their lives at risk during the peak of the pandemic. We owe it to our essential workers to pay them a wage that recognizes and respects the essential role that they play in the American economy.

KING: It's a fascinating moment, I'm sure for you to be a new Democrat in the Congress at this time of narrow majorities and big issues. Congressman, let's keep in touch as all this plays out, going forward grateful for your time today.

TORRES: Always a pleasure. Take care.

KING: Thank you.

Up next, Johnson & Johnson now asking the government to approve its COVID vaccine but if you think that would make a big dent in the vaccine rollout, think again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:55:48]

KING: The Biden administration is adjusting its vaccine timeline, now saying it'll likely be summer not spring by the time everyone will have access to a COVID-19 vaccine. We're now learning that the initial supply of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine will be well short of what was expected. The government initially anticipating between 20 million and 30 million J&J vaccine doses by April and now expects single digits, fewer than 10 million.

Joining me now is the former FDA Commissioner and Director of the Duke-Margolis Center for Health Policy, Dr. Mark McClellan. Dr. McClellan also sits on the Johnson & Johnson board. Dr. McClellan, it's great to see you. What happened here? This was originally goes back to the Trump administration Operation Warp Speed. You signed contracts with all of these companies. You say produce your vaccine. So even if it doesn't work, we have it in a warehouse so that we have those that do work, and we can get them out. What was the mix up here?

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, BOARD MEMBER, JOHNSON & JOHNSON: Well, John, I'm not sure that there was a mix up. I know people are talking about that right now. I also know that J&J is absolutely committed to delivering on its 100 million doses by June with millions of doses starting in March. So hopefully, they'll get those exact numbers worked out in the near future.

Remember before that can happen, J&J needs to get its vaccine reviewed by the FDA and an Independent Advisory Board at a public meeting coming up at the end of February. And then all of those manufacturing plants need to be certified on that same timeline, to be safe and able to deliver the doses effectively.

So, hopefully all that's going to get sorted out. But if you look ahead to March, John, we are on track to deliver tens, if not close to 100 million doses of vaccines between J&J if approved, Pfizer, Moderna, their supplies are increasing. We're getting the capacity to do close to 2 million doses per day now. That is going to go up significantly. So I think we can still beat that July timeframe that the President laid out if we really ramp up our capacity to deliver all the vaccines that are available, whether it's J&J, Moderna, or Pfizer.

KING: Well, in the case of J&J, is there something the administration can do using the Defense Production Act, for example, as it has in other cases, whether they bring online somehow another production line or help with syringes or vials or something that would help J&J speed up?

MCCLELLAN: It's hard to do all that in the short run. I know a lot of those conversations are going on with a firm commitment from the administration to accelerate production, John. I think you're going to see and what people should be expecting is that vaccines are going to be more and more available, not just over the next couple of weeks, but especially if the J&J vaccine is approved soon after that Public Advisory Committee meeting at the end of February.

So there'll be a lot of options. And our main focus needs to be on how can we get more shots in arms, you know, we're at close to 2 million shots in arms per day right now, even with the bad weather, and so on. Hopefully, we can get that up to 3 million or beyond in March. That means working with pharmacies. It means working with healthcare. It means working with public health, really expanding what we've been able to do so far.

KING: Let me ask you in closing, if you are still involved in government and ask your opinion, when people are debating priorities, and these are legitimate debates, you know, the vulnerable first in line for vaccine, people with other conditions get in line for vaccine. Should teachers be bumped up so you can get kids back into school? Would you recommend that?

MCCLELLAN: I think teachers and other frontline workers are definitely priorities. I'm also concerned about workers in grocery stores and elsewhere where we have seen infections occur and they've been on the frontline since the beginning of the pandemic, you know, coming to work every day.

And I think, John, that goes back to my earlier point, we can make these processes easier if we keep focusing on ramping up how many shots we can do per day. States are getting ready for it. The supply is going to keep coming, especially if the J&J vaccine is approved to where we could get to potentially 3 million shots per day. And that's going to make it a lot easier to vaccinate everybody who wants it whether they're a frontline worker, a teacher or person in one of the other high risk groups.

KING: I hope your optimism turns out to be true and the acceleration continues at a decent pace right now. A decent pace right now could use a little bit of adrenaline, if you will.

[13:00:02]

Dr. Mark McClellan, grateful for your time and your insights today, Sir, as always, thank you very much, and thank you for your time today on Inside Politics.

Thanks for walking with us through some of the breaking.

A busy news day, please stay with us. Brianna Keilar picking up our coverage right now. Have a good afternoon.

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