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Biden Honors 500,000 Americans Who Have Died from Coronavirus; Soon, First Hearings on Insurrection at U.S. Capitol Begin; Mounting Confirmation Battles for Key Biden Cabinet Nominees. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired February 23, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Lost to coronavirus.

[07:00:01]

The president pleading with the country not to be numb to the suffering.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: We often hear people describe it as ordinary Americans. There's no such thing. There's nothing ordinary about them. The people we lost were extraordinary. They spanned generations, born in America, immigrated to America. But just like that, so many of them took their final breath alone in America.

I know all too well. I know what it's like to not be there when it happens. I know what it's like when you are there, holding their hands, and look in their eye and they slip away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: Compare that to exactly one year ago. On this date, President Trump proclaimed the virus was very much under control in this country. How wrong he was.

Joining us now is Dr. Anthony Fauci, President Biden's chief medical adviser and the director of the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Dr. Fauci, always great to see you.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Same here, thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So, Dr. Fauci, I know that you have been personally analyzing, I guess, how we got here, half a million people dead in the space of one year. And as you look back over this year, have you concluded that it was our political positions and political division that led to this death toll?

FAUCI: I certainly think that's part of it. It was very complicated situation, one we're dealing with a very formidable virus to begin with. So, anything that is not at its top peak in addressing it in the most appropriate way is going to lead to the kinds of things that we experienced. So I have said, I believe it's the case when you have a common enemy, you've got to pull together in the same way. It's like people on a crew team rowing in the same direction. You can't have disparate responses. And, unfortunately, there's a lot good about the differences in states and the ability and, historically, to do things on their own and the way that they see that they want to do it.

But when you have such a common force, such a powerful force against you, this virus that's exerted such a toll on us, you've got to do it together in a unifying way and not have any kind of political ideology divisiveness getting in the way of what we're trying to do.

That's not the only thing that really was a problem, but that's certainly, in my mind, having lived through it, was something that I found really to be unfortunately damaging.

CAMEROTA: When you go back, when we replay now exactly a year ago, President Trump saying we have it very much under control, we've had no deaths, the next day he said it's very well under control in our country, a few days later he said everything is under control. I mean, we're very, very cool. We've done it very well. Everything is really under control. Do you think that his denial and lack of facts contributed to this level of loss?

FAUCI: Well, I think -- I mean, I'm uncomfortable going back and directly criticizing but it's really almost self-evident, Alisyn, that when you're trying to signal the country to really buckle down and address the kinds of mitigation strategies that we put forth the wearing of masks, the physical distancing, the avoiding congregate settings, the kinds of things that I and many of the other public health people who were there trying to get the country to appreciate the things that we were trying to do all throughout the entire outbreak.

I mean, the thing that I remember very clearly is when we were trying to open up the country, open up the economy and to do it carefully with the gateway, the phase 1, phase 2, the phase 3, I was hoping that we would see a uniform, unified approach towards all doing that together.

And when signals come saying this isn't so bad, we're in pretty good shape, when we're saying we're not, we being the health people, that was not helpful because the people who wanted to deny that this is something that was serious when you get a signal from above that it might not be, then you don't do the kinds of things you need to do.

I mean, I still have flashing in my mind those scenes of when we were trying to tell people to really be careful and avoid congregate settings and used to see on television at night people crowded at bars, inside, no masks.

[07:05:01]

I mean, that was just asking for trouble. And, in fact, that's what we got, a lot of trouble.

CAMEROTA: And would you say that that was your lowest point during this past year?

FAUCI: There were several low points from the standpoint. I mean, I don't have emotional reactions to these things. I've been through this so many times in different situations, but it does intellectually pain me when I see things like pleading for people to do the kinds of things that you know work, the mask wearing, the physical separation and the denial.

I mean, one of the things that I think -- if I go through the multiple things that were actually painful for me was when you were seeing situations where there were hospitals that were almost overrun, where you were having 20 ICU beds in a particular hospital and 50 people who needed ICU care.

And in those same regions, there were people who were denying that this was going on, saying, oh, it's fake news. It's a hoax. I mean, how could you possibly say that when people in your own state, your own city, your own county are dying? And to me, that just boggled me and it still does. It still does how reality can just be put aside in denying the seriousness of the situation we're in.

And here we are today looking at 500,000 Americans who have died thus far. I mean, that's the proof of what actually has been going on. You can't deny that.

And I guess you asked me what the thing that was the low point for me is when people deny the reality of what's actually happening.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Let's talk about where we are today and try to get a handle on how optimistic we should be versus how cautious still. So this weekend on Sunday you told our Dana Bash that you could not recommend that fully vaccinated people get together with their grandchildren. And I know you've also said that you don't think that fully vaccinated people should be dining indoors or going to the theater. Why not? If the vaccines are 95 percent effective, why not let people get back to some semblance of their old life?

FAUCI: You know, Alisyn, we had a lot of discussions about that. I mean, when you look at what I would do personally, I would feel more comfortable in something like that. But we want to make sure that when we make recommendations, when the CDC, who is the agency primarily responsible for collecting data and making public health recommendations, they want to make sure they sit down, talk about it, look at the data and then come out with a recommendation based on the science.

It's so clear -- you're absolutely right, and I've had discussions with this, that were not very comfortable discussions. When you say, well, wait a minute, if I'm fully vaccinated and my daughter comes in the house and she's fully vaccinated, do we really have to have as stringent the public health measures than you would if it was a stranger who was not vaccinated and you were not vaccinated?

Common sense tells you that, in fact, you don't have to be as stringent in your public health measures. But what we want, we want to get firm recommendations from the CDC, which I believe will be coming soon. They started off with an important recommendation and I think there will be others coming. And that is when you have a fully vaccinated person and they come into contact with someone who is known to be infected with SARS-Cov-2, you don't have to do the kind of quarantine that we had been recommending. Remember ten days without a test, seven days with a test. That's been put aside.

And I believe you're going to be hearing more of the recommendations of how you can relax the stringency of some of the things particularly when you're dealing with something like your own personal family when people have been vaccinated. I believe that forthcoming pretty soon.

CAMEROTA: And when? I'm just asking people because are so desperate for it.

FAUCI: You know, I talk about this everyday with the team as recently as last night. So, I hope we will be able to answer the logical questions that people are asking about that. And I have to tell you, I agree. There are questions we need to answer pretty soon because more and more people are going to be vaccinated every single day, there will be more and more people and they're going to be asking that question.

CAMEROTA: And so, until we get those results and that science, do you think that places like New York, which is now going to be open for restaurants at 35 percent capacity, places like Connecticut which is now open to 50 percent capacity, are they rushing it?

[07:10:05]

FAUCI: You know, I don't want to make judgment on a local situation, but I think if we do things like opening up the way they are, that as long as they do it carefully and observe, and if you see blips as you're doing that, then you need to pull back and strengthen the force of the mitigation measures.

So, I mean, I don't think we can sit where I am now and be criticizing each and every town and city what they're doing. The only thing I can say is that if you're starting to open up, which people really do want to do, do it gradually and do it carefully.

CAMEROTA: What's happening with the J&J vaccine? Why does this seem like it's taking longer than we thought it would and there are fewer doses?

FAUCI: Well, the totality of the doses, Alisyn, I believe are going to meet the contractual arrangements, and that is to have 100 million doses I guess by June or so, by the end of June, beginning of July. That will happen. What we're seeing is that instead of being frontloaded with the number of doses that are coming out, it very likely will be backloaded. And by that I mean we are now -- they're in full consideration with the FDA for an emergency use authorization.

I don't want to get ahead of the FDA, but if, in fact, that that is given to them, they're not going to have a lot of doses on the first day. It will likely be relatively few, which will then scale up a lot more. And it's just a matter of what happened with their production capability and how they are now going to be revving up. And then soon after that, they're going to have a lot of doses but it's not going to be frontloaded.

CAMEROTA: I only have you for a couple more questions because our time is running out, but what should we expect from the vaccine makers in front of Congress today?

FAUCI: Well, you know, I think that the vaccine makers are going to be people who have put a lot of effort into what they've done and they're going to try to get as many doses to us as they possibly can. We now, as you know, have contractual relations with two of them for a total of 600 million doses for 300 million people, which we likely will get, as the president has said, by July, we'll have enough doses to do that, to vaccinate 300 million people with 600 million doses. So, hopefully, we'll hear some positive news about where they're going.

One of the things that they're going to get asked, I'm sure, is how are they going to be addressing the evolution of these variants. What are they going to do to try to stay ahead of the variants? And yesterday, with a lot of things happening yesterday, one of the things that maybe didn't get enough notice is that the FDA came out with updated guidelines to the companies about how they may modify what they do and to try and assist them in that process if they do have to upgrade their vaccine to meet the variants, particularly the variant in South Africa.

CAMEROTA: Well, that's my last question to you, Dr. Fauci, because we keep hearing contradictory things. Do you believe, as you sit here today, that the vaccines can outpace the variants? Do you think -- or, do you think that next month, as early as next month, we will see the variants start to take hold and outrun the vaccines?

FAUCI: Well, it depends what variant you're talking about, Alisyn. If you're talking about the variant, the 117, the one that has dominated in England, in the U.K., it happens that the vaccines that we're using appear to be very good against them, at least by the in vitro assay, namely in the test tube.

The one that is not dominant in the United States, and that's the South African isolate, the vaccine does not do as well at preventing mild to moderate disease, but from extrapolations that you can make both from in vitro as well as from what other vaccines have done, it likely can protect against serious illness leading to hospitalizations and death.

So what we've got to do, and I said it so many times, I'll say it again today, Alisyn, we have got to as quickly as efficiently as possible get as many people vaccinated as we can at the same time that we continue with our public health measures. Because when people look at that curve everyday in the newspaper, it's very steeply going down, which is terrific news. The infections per day are going down.

We can't pull back on that and get complacent because if we do, we could see a surge. So it's within our own hands and our own power about who is going to win this race between variants and our ability to suppress them.

[07:15:03]

CAMEROTA: Dr. Fauci, thank you for all of the time this morning. We always appreciate talking to you, really helpful.

FAUCI: Thank you, Alisyn. Good to be with you.

CAMEROTA: John?

BERMAN: All right, joining us now CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, you were listening to that along with the rest of us, and one really interesting thing that Alisyn really pushed on is if Dr. Fauci seems to be saying if not outright but in body language that he as a grandfather might be comfortable having received both doses of vaccines to hang out with his grandchildren, why isn't the CDC or why can't the government come out and clearly say or put on paper that it would be okay to do X on Y date? Can you explain?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, and I'll preface by saying I think he is telegraphing even within that great interview that that -- those sorts of recommendations will be coming. Meaning that the recommendations that it would be okay for people who are fully vaccinated to be spending time with other vaccinated people without masks on, without having to do all the things that we've been talking about, just on a more normal sort of setting. I think we're going to be hearing that.

I think there're sort of two things to just keep in mind. This is why it's been such a topic of discussion. The trials, the vaccine trials, what they were looking for, do these vaccines reduce the likelihood of you getting sick? That is what they were looking for. They didn't necessarily look for, do they reduce the likelihood of you becoming infected and being able to transmit the virus?

Now, what Dr. Fauci said is, look, common sense will sort of tell you that that is probably true as well, that if you received the vaccine, you've got these antibodies, the antibodies are these proteins that help fight the virus, so you would be less likely to become infected, and even if you did, less likely to have a high enough dose to transmit.

But, you know, two schools of thought, do we have to prove that first through these scientific studies, some of which are happening now, or do we just say basically common sense. And this is a discussion that's happening within the highest levels of science, within the government right now.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, what he is saying is that he'll feel a lot more comfortable -- he's not comfortable giving a recommendation until they prove it via science. He wants the science to lead, okay? But what I was saying is when? When will those studies -- I'm happy to hear those studies are happening right now to find out about transmissibility, but when? Because at some point it does become -- and disincentive is too strong, but you want the messaging to be, go and get the vaccine as soon as you can because your life is going to be so much better. But we can't exactly say that yet.

GUPTA: Right. Well, you know, I would say one thing. I think your life is better once you get vaccinated regardless. I mean, my parents got vaccinated. I can just tell you that, you live with the worry, Alisyn, as my parents constantly told me every day, that you worry, I've been careful but I might get sick. And now they have this confidence, not 100 percent but confident that they're not going to get sick. There is value to that. I don't want to minimize that.

But as far as the studies go, when I say they're ongoing, I mean, I think that they may be coming out soon. There's a study looking at 31,000 vaccinated people. I think this one was out of Mayo basically showing day 36, as it turns out in the study, that people are 80 percent less likely at that point to become infected and/or transmit the virus. So, you're starting to see some of that data.

Now, people will say, is that data good enough? 80 percent, 36 days, is it going to be a higher percentage of decreasing infection at, you know, three months? Again, these are the discussions that are happening. So I think we'll get a recommendation.

But it may be, okay, after you've been vaccinated, it's going to be this amount of time before we think not only are you protected from getting sick but also significantly protected from being able to transmit the virus. I think it's going to get that level of detail hopefully some time soon.

BERMAN: It's also one other, I think, organizational thing, which is sometimes -- it's not Dr. Fauci who writes the CDC stuff. And i think sometimes he doesn't want to get out in front of what they're going to publish or dictate to them what he thinks they should publish.

Very quickly, one of the things he said at the end, and it's interesting, and he's right, it got a little bit covered up yesterday in the news of 500,000 deaths, The FDA making clear that as the variants or if these variants become more prevalent, that the approval process for changing or adjusting the vaccines will be much more streamlined or much quicker, Sanjay. I mean, how much quicker? What does this mean?

GUPTA: I mean, it's remarkably faster. I mean, I've been following that part of the story all along. It's really interesting. So there's two things. One is that, first of all, just the technology to be able to potentially retool the vaccine. It's almost -- I think I'm simplifying, but it's almost like thinking of changing computer code rather than changing a biological therapeutic. So that could be done in weeks, I'm told, four to six weeks you could actually essentially have a new vaccine. And then there are what are known as bridging trials. So you still have to do some of the safety stuff around the new vaccine, but then you can bridge it to all the other phase 2 and phase 3 data so quickly, you could have new vaccines quickly.

[07:20:04]

BERMAN: Very good news. All right, Sanjay, thanks so much for being with us, helping us understand what we heard from Dr. Fauci just there. I appreciate it.

So, very shortly, the first congressional hearing into the armed insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, key witnesses that we have not heard from yet, we'll hear from them today. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: In just a few hours, the Senate will hold its first public hearing on the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. Key officials who were in charge of security that day will have to answer for what went wrong.

CNN's Whitney Wild is live in Washington with a preview. What do we expect, Whitney?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are going to hear from the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committees as well as the Senate Rules Committee, this bipartisan hearing is so consequential in trying to figure out how this all happened.

[07:25:06]

We will hear from four key witnesses to that day. Metropolitan Police Chief Robert Contee, former U.S. Capitol Police Chief Steve Sund, former House Sergeant at Arms Paul Irving and former Senate Sergeant at Arms Michael Stenger.

The last three, Alisyn, are so critical, because they resigned amid the fallout from the riot. People were harshly criticizing them. And we'll hear from them today.

We heard next to nothing from Paul Irving and Michael Stenger. We heard a little from Sund, who also pointed the blame at Stenger and Paul Irving. So today, we'll hear them try to at least acknowledge their failures.

Additionally, I think the big questions that are going to be raised here are how did this happen and how can we prevent it. So the information that senators are trying to learn today is what kind of major changes can be made to ensure a crisis like this never happens again, John.

BERMAN: Whitney Wild, thank you so much. It will be fascinating to watch, because as you said, some of these people testifying at odds with each other.

WILD: Exactly.

BERMAN: So there could be moments of tension to be sure. Thanks for that.

So, at his confirmation hearing, Judge Merrick Garland called the Capitol siege a heinous attack on democracy and pledged to supervise the prosecution of those involved. Judge Garland also became emotional when recounting his family's history and his motivation to serve the country. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL NOMINEE: I come from a family where my grandparents fled anti-Semitism and persecution. The country took us in and protected us. And I feel an obligation to the country to pay back and the highest best use of my own set skills to pay back. And so I want very much to be the kind of attorney general that you're saying I could become. I'll do my best to try to be that kind of attorney general.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Really incredible moment there.

Joining us now is CNN Political Director David Chalian. David, Judge Garland is expected to sail through in confirmation. He is expected to be confirmed fairly easily. Now, there is or are increasing number of Biden nominees who may not sail through quite so easily. Neera Tanden to lead the Office of Management and Budget, she may not be the nominee by the end of today. Then you have Congresswoman Deb Haaland lead the Interior Department, and Xavier Becerra to lead HHS.

What's the hold up or what does this signify, do you think, the difficulties that might be ahead over the next 24 hours?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. I think the smooth sailing period of Biden nominees to his cabinet as phase 1 here has come to an end. Phase 2 seems to be where there's going to be a bit more controversy surrounding some of the nominees, certainly a much more partisan vote when it comes to the final vote on the Senate floor likely. Republicans seem to be galvanizing their opposition around two of the folks you just named, Deb Haaland for interior secretary, Xavier Becerra for Health and Human Services secretary for different reasons.

One, Haaland, the Republicans are eager to sort of label here as a real radical environmentalist who supports the Green New Deal and supports a ban on fracking, has protested against pipelines. They kind of want to paint her sort of outside the mainstream kind of environmentals. I'm not sure that's going to work. She's obviously a history-breaking nominee, and for Native Americans in this country, it's an unbelievable moment to see her nomination to be the first Native American to be nominated to a president's cabinet, and Democrats are pretty unified, it seems, in support. But, it will be more contentious.

And Xavier Becerra, John, Republicans are saying that he has no experience in the health sector. He has no real experience as it relates to the issues that HHS oversees. And so they're trying to picket him there. Again, they will try to land some punches. It won't be as smooth sailing, like you said, as the Garland hearing yesterday, where I don't think a single Republican laid a glove on the attorney general nominee. But it's unclear that those two won't get through.

Tanden, I mean, Neera Tanden's nomination really hangs in the balance, as you said. She may not even be the nominee come the end of the day. CAMEROTA: It's also pivotal week obviously for Biden's COVID relief bill. And so in terms of the debate over the minimum wage, Senator Joe Manchin is really flexing some muscles here and might get his way. I mean, here was his rationale for why he doesn't want $15 an hour, why he wants 11.

[07:30:02]

He says $11 basically works for Americans and we can do $11 in two years and be in a better position than we're going to be with.