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Rep. Adam Kinzinger Discusses Current State of Republican Party; Coronavirus Cases Possibly Plateauing at High Rate in U.S.; Woman Accuses New York Governor Andrew Cuomo of Unwanted Sexual Advances; QAnon Conspiracies Are Tearing Families Apart. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 02, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): It doesn't mean that the party is going to heal itself, but I think it means that Trump is going to be less and less important. And so for me I launched this Country First, Country1st.com, about a competing narrative and vision in the Republican Party for an optimistic hopeful, kind of adult-driven future, and not what we've been dealing with lately.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Congressman Adam Kinzinger, thanks so much for your candid thoughts with us this morning. Great to talk to you.

KINZINGER: You bet.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: He's approaching like full Bulworth right there at this point. I don't think he's on the Josh Hawley Christmas list anymore is my hunch.

CAMEROTA: He did say he's one of the smartest guys in Congress.

BERMAN: If Josh Hawley saw that and not the really smug part and tears up the Constitution to get elected, he might not like that part as much.

CAMEROTA: We'll see. And NEW DAY continues right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

CAMEROTA: And good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. And we begin with a sober warning from the CDC director.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: Please hear me clearly. At this level of cases with variants spreading, we stand to completely lose the hard-earned ground we have gained. Now is not the time to relax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Here's why she's saying that. After falling for weeks, new coronavirus cases are plateauing at a very high level. This could be caused by the highly contagious new variants. This as a lot of states are easing their pandemic restrictions. They're reopening restaurants, theaters, and they're entirely removing some indoor dining restrictions.

Meanwhile, Johnson & Johnson's newly approved single dose vaccine could start going into arms today, but the amount available is much lower than originally promised.

BERMAN: New this morning, Anna Ruch is speaking out, a 33-year-old woman with a name and a story. She is publicly accusing New York Governor Andrew Cuomo of making an unwanted advance. Ruch, who is seen here, says that Cuomo touched her face and her back and asked to kiss her moments after they met at a wedding in September of 2019. She's now the third woman to come forward accusing Cuomo of inappropriate behavior. She did not work for the governor or the state. CNN has not been able to reach her.

This morning a member of Congress in New York is calling for Cuomo's resignation. We have new reporting on this in just a moment.

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Dr. Jha, great to see you, as always. Do you agree with Director Walensky that we could erase all of the gains that we have made since the vaccines came on board if we don't watch what we do over the next few weeks?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, good morning and thanks for having me on. Dr. Walensky is right, and the reason she's right is while things are way better than they were about a month-and-a-half ago, the level of infection in the country right now is the same as at the peak of the summer surge. So we're not like in great shape. And we have variants circulating. And variants are starting to take over. And if they become dominant and we relax restrictions, I think we can absolutely see a huge spike that will lead to a lot more suffering. So Rochelle Walensky is absolutely right about this.

BERMAN: They are easing restrictions. Massachusetts is lifting restrictions on in-person dining. North Carolina is doing the same. Other states are lifting mask mandates. So it's happening. It's happening right now. So I guess we're going to see. It's a heck of a time to experiment with something like this.

Dr. Jha, I want to read a quote from Dr. Ashish Jha, Dean of the Brown School of Public Health. You say "I'm very bullish on where we'll be in May, June, and July, but March, April look like tough months that we still have to get through." So why bearish now, bullish later?

JHA: Yes, so let's talk about why bullish later, right, because vaccines are coming. We've got a bunch already in people's arms. We're going to have a lot more vaccines in March and April. I think by the end of April, certainly anybody who wants a vaccine probably will be able to get one, certainly by May, if not by the end of April. So that leads to a lot of vaccinated people, low levels of infection by the time we get to into the summer.

The problem is between now and then. And we just discussed it. We have a high level of infection. We have states easing restrictions, which they should not be doing at this moment. And we've got the variants that are circulating that are a lot more infectious. Put all that together and you can't help but worry about where we'll be for the next couple of months.

CAMEROTA: We're just being told in our ear, I think it's "The Washington Post" is just reporting, that Merck has just announced it will help J&J manufacture the vaccine to produce more doses.

BERMAN: Johnson & Johnson vaccine. They're going to produce the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

CAMEROTA: They're going to help produce the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

BERMAN: So it's a competitor helping a different company.

CAMEROTA: Right, a competitor helping. Am I reading too much altruism into this?

JHA: Well, first of all, I think it's fabulous. We need all the vaccines we can get, not just for Americans but around the world. I keep reminding people this is a global pandemic, and American lives and health won't be secured until we've got the world vaccinated.

[08:05:02]

Merck is a terrific vaccine company. It's got a lot of experience. So -- and their own vaccine didn't go very far, so if they can build a J&J vaccine, I think that would be terrific and would add a lot to the global stockpiles.

BERMAN: The rate of vaccinations that we're seeing now, I think it's at, what, 1.8 million a day? What do you make of that rate? How much higher, realistically, do you think it needs to get?

JHA: Yes, first of all, better than it was. Obviously, we had a little blip because of the storms in Texas and elsewhere. But I think we're going to be well over 2 million a day in the next week, 10 days. I'd like to get us to three. I think we'll have enough vaccines that we can probably be vaccinating 3 million people by the time we get into the later part of March. I want to make sure the states are investing right now in the distribution so when the vaccines really start arriving, we can start -- we can continue ramping up how many vaccines we're getting. I'd like to see us at 3 million. I don't know if we're going to get there, but I think we can.

CAMEROTA: We found out over night that Former President Donald Trump and first lady Melania were vaccinated. They were vaccinated before they left the White House secretly. They had an opportunity to do it publicly, as every previous president has done in order to send a message -- look how easy this is, look how good I feel. And he did it secretly. It's just -- I don't know why I'm still astonished by the self-interest over the public interest, but what would it have meant for him to be vaccinated on camera, this man who likes doing everything on camera?

JHA: Yes, it's really disappointing for several reasons you mentioned, Alisyn. The biggest issue here is, if we look at who feels most skeptical about the vaccine, it's white Republican voters. They are among the most skeptical of all. They would be far more likely to be persuaded by watching President Trump get vaccinated than almost anybody else. And I wish he had done it on camera. I wish he had done it in front of the public. I think with he had made a big deal about it, because it would have made a big difference in sending the signal and instilling confidence in people. These really are terrific vaccines, but we need our leaders to show that.

BERMAN: Just so people know the timing of this, our Drew Griffin reported there was an anti-vax rally at the same time, like miles apart from the rallies on January 6th, the big lie. It's almost as if the former president was currying favor with the anti-vaxxers for political reasons by not going public.

And as you said, look, he said in the speech to CPAC, Dr. Jha, two days ago, he said go get a shot, passed it by very quickly. He could be out there every day now saying go get a shot. This doesn't have to be about politics. It would help. It would really help if the former president did that from Mar-a-Lago every day.

JHA: It would help all Americans. It would certainly help our country reach herd immunity, but it would particularly be helpful to his supporters right. It would protect them. It would save their lives, the people who are the most ardent supporters of President Trump. So he should do it for country, but he should certainly at least do it for his own supporters. I'd love to see him doing that, and I've been disappointed that he hasn't made this a bigger deal, especially since he loves to take credit, and deserves some credit for how quickly the vaccines got produced.

BERMAN: Dr. Ashish Jha, thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it, as always.

JHA: Thank you.

BERMAN: So this morning, 33-year-old Anna Ruch says she was the victim of unwanted advance from New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. She is the third woman to come forward publicly accusing the governor of inappropriate behavior. CNN's Athena Jones live in Albany with the latest. And the news this morning is Congresswoman Kathleen Rice from New York, a Democrat, is now out calling for Cuomo's resignation.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. That's right, she is among the growing number of New York Democrats calling for Governor Cuomo to resign after this third woman has come forward to "The New York Times" with new allegations accusing him of an unwanted advance at a wedding reception a few years ago. This coming after two former aides to Governor Cuomo have accused him of sexual harassment. (BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

JONES: Embattled New York Governor Andrew Cuomo silent Monday as a third woman came forward accusing him of an unwanted advance, 33-year- old Anna Ruch recalling to "The New York Times" a wedding reception in September, 2019, where Cuomo approached her, put his hands on her face and asked if he could kiss her, loudly enough for a friend nearby to hear. The moment seemingly captured in this picture from the event obtained by "The Times." "The Times" says they corroborated Ruch's story through contemporaneous text messages and photos.

Ruch, who worked in the Obama administration and for President Joe Biden's 2020 campaign, was bewildered, "The Times" reports, and pulled away as the governor drew closer, telling the paper she was so confused and shocked and embarrassed, she turned her head away and didn't have words in that moment.

[08:10:04]

Cuomo did not directly respond to Ruch's allegations. His spokesperson referred "The Times" to his previous statement on Sunday where he wrote, "I acknowledge some of the things I have said have been misinterpreted as an unwanted flirtation. To the extent anyone felt that way, I am truly sorry about that."

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO, (D-NY) NEW YORK CITY: The governor issued a total non-apology earlier, and in effect treated sexual harassment as some kind of laughing matter. It's not a laughing matter. It's not a joke. It's very, very serious stuff. And we need a full investigation. If it proves that these allegations are true, how can someone lead a state if they've done these kinds of things?

JONES: Ruch never worked for the governor, but her allegation comes after two of Cuomo's former aides in the last week have accused him of sexual harassment. Charlotte Bennett, who recounted her alleged incidents to "The Times" this weekend, responding to the governor's statement writing, "It took the governor 24 hours and significant backlash to allow for a truly independent investigation. These are not the actions of someone who simply feels misunderstood. They are the actions of an individual who wields his power to avoid justice."

On Monday, New York Attorney General Letitia James announced she had received the referral for an independent investigation with subpoena power from the governor.

JESSE MCKINLEY, ALBANY BUREAU CHIEF, "NEW YORK TIMES": That investigation could have some teeth. With subpoena power, you can draw down documents, you can compel testimony, you can get recordings if there's any recordings. Charlotte did speak to a lawyer inside of the Cuomo administration.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

JONES: Ruch has not responded to CNN's request for comment, and CNN has not been able to corroborate her allegations. But we should note with this investigation now being carried out in association with the attorney general's office, as you heard from the Jesse McKinley there, it's going to involve subpoenaing witnesses and documents and other records, and that could mean that the governor himself could be compelled to testify. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Really interesting developments happening very quickly. Athena, thank you very much.

Up next, our next pulse of the people, a look inside QAnon. Former followers tell us how fears of the pandemic led them to fall down the rabbit hole.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whatever your specific fear is, you can find essentially what is like a choose your own adventure down a doomsday rabbit hole of whatever you are most afraid of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:09]

CAMEROTA: Now to part two of our pulse of the people, trying to better understand the QAnon phenomenon.

We want to learn how people fall into it and how they can get out of it. So, we sat down with six people from across the country. The three on the top row you're about to about to meet fell into QAnon. The three on the bottom row still have loved ones trapped in the conspiracy.

And we started by exploring the very real connection between QAnon and COVID.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: How many of you think that the pandemic has been a gateway of sorts to QAnon?

CHARLOTTE ROZICH, FAMILY MEMBERS ARE QANON SUPPORTERS: I think at first, COVID was such an unknown for everybody. And then I think that QAnon rushed in and filled that vacuum with misinformation and disinformation, filling that void again about fear of foreigners. It's the so-called China virus. It's this. It's -- anything that people can seize upon that plays upon their fears that are already inherent.

MELISSA REIN LIVELY, FORMER QANON BELIEVER: And that's really what it came down to was this overwhelming feeling that came up for me during the pandemic was that, I did not think that I was going to be okay. I just, you know, had no grasp on reality and what was going on. And I felt like I was on quicksand.

CAMEROTA: So your parents are down the QAnon rabbit hole. So do you know how they fell into it? BREE BRANTLEY, FAMILY MEMBERS ARE QANON SUPPORTERS: I think last year

with the pressure of the election and seeing how Trump was falling in the polls during the COVID pandemic control, I think that was what pushed them to get really into QAnon. I think they were panicking. They were nervous.

If you're afraid of vaccines or 5G or afraid of other countries, I mean, whatever it is that you, I guess, have a natural fear of or suspicion of, Q has a version of itself for you.

LIVELY: And I think that that's very true. I think whatever your specific fear is, you can find essentially what is like a choose your own adventure down a doomsday rabbit hole of whatever you are most afraid of.

ASHLEY VANDERBILT, FORMER QANON BELIEVER: Well, I definitely related to the pandemic kind of bringing people into QAnon. It made it easier because you were cut off from everybody. You know, you're just stuck at home all the time. And all you're doing is, if you're not -- if you're not watching Netflix, you can only watch that so many times, so then you're on social media a whole lot more. And I think that's -- I mean, I think that's where a lot of people got in.

CAMEROTA: Jordan, tell us who in your life is currently in the grips of QAnon.

JORDAN HALLSTROM, FAMILY MEMBERS ARE QANON SUPPORTERS: My cousin who is a police officer in the Bay Area in California. It's scary to know that somebody like that, who is a police officer, is pulling people over and giving tickets and just, you know, so radicalized.

CAMEROTA: What are the things that he says to you?

HALLSTROM: He would just start posting things like radical stuff like Antifa is responsible for the fires this past summer we had on the West Coast, in Oregon and California. You know, that Antifa dressed up as Trump supporters who raided the Capitol.

CAMEROTA: So in other words, the way he justifies the attack on police officers, Capitol police officers at the U.S. Capitol is he believes it couldn't be his people, right? It has to be other people dressed up as Trump supporters?

HALLSTROM: Exactly.

JAY GILLEY, FORMER QANON BELIEVER: It's interesting to hear how people are getting locked into it still after I had left.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, because, Jay, you were from about 2014 until, I guess you got out in 2019.

[08:20:04]

But you got in early, before it was even called QAnon, you were --

GILLEY: Correct. CAMEROTA: -- starting to flirt with some of these conspiracy

theories?

GILLEY: Yeah, some of the conspiracy theories about, obviously, Hillary Clinton. There was like a cabal of pedophiles.

CAMEROTA: Can you explain that one to me? The cabal of pedophiles that all Democrats are apparently involved in that is somehow connected to the basement of a pizza parlor? I mean, do you understand why when you're not in QAnon that sounds crazy?

GILLEY: Oh, it absolutely sounds crazy. Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Why was that plausible to you?

GILLEY: We have a general state of confusion and paranoia in our lives, if you will. There's very little worse than a pedophile, you know? It's a call to action.

LIVELY: Well, I think the interesting thing about QAnon that people really need to understand is, even if you are in a very well-educated person, you can still fall into this because of the brainwash-like mechanism that it has because it operates exactly like a cult.

What QAnon basically tells you is, here's the information you know. It's no longer true. Here's why. And you are encouraged to quote/unquote, open your mind and think about it differently.

CAMEROTA: So show of hands. How many of you blame the Facebook or YouTube algorithm for sucking you or your loved ones in?

HALLSTROM: Well, definitely Facebook. Facebook just has such a hold on my cousin and my aunt. I mean, they just believe anything that is shared, and just the disinformation.

VANDERBILT: Well, me, it was TikTok and so, you know, if you start liking certain type of videos or interacting with those videos on TikTok, the algorithm is going to start showing you more of those things. And in there, some conspiracy theories started coming through.

The thing that frustrates me the most is TikTok will have their general statement. Oh, we don't allow QAnon or conspiracy theories on our platform, but I can go to my page and still see conspiracy theories going out.

CAMEROTA: What is your advice if somebody is dealing with a loved one?

VANDERBILT: My advice to anyone that has family members in it is, you know, try to have some compassion or empathy. When it deals with that, just because people in these groups, they're terrified.

LIVELY: I think family support is the most critical thing to helping people get out of this. So I just can't stress enough, you know, be patient with these people. It's been a really, really tough year for a lot of people and put yourself in other people's shoes. You might not understand their perspective. You may not agree with their ideology but at least you can love them and have compassion for them as a person, as a human being.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: I am glad you asked the question basically of, why were you willing to believe that the Clintons ran a child sex trafficking ring to begin with? I think that's a fair question. I'm not 100 percent satisfied with the answers. I don't think blaming TikTok and social media is 100 percent satisfying.

CAMEROTA: Well, it is a little bit in the algorithm keeps feeding it to you. I don't think that you can overestimate how much -- see, this changed my take on it. It changed my perspective, and I have a lot more empathy now. These aren't people who don't have information. They have too much information coming at them.

They think they're doing their research. They are diving in. They are reading all sorts of things and they start to lose the discernment of what's disinformation and what's real information because they are bathing in this tidal wave of disinformation.

And I do have empathy because what they pointed out to me that I didn't know before is they are terrified. The people in it are terrified and in some way, QAnon gives them a feeling of less powerlessness.

BERMAN: Do they bear personal responsibility for making the choice?

CAMEROTA: Well, I -- these folks do. These three definitely say they had personal responsibility.

But I don't think you can underestimate if you were constantly being fed something -- look, Facebook is smart. Twitter is smart. These social media things have been designed to play on those centers of your brain that light up when you get a hit of something that's really scary or really salacious. That's how the brain works. They've been designed that way.

BERMAN: I think it's fascinating. I do. Again, I think it's a great question, though, about why they were open to it to begin with. And again --

CAMEROTA: Well, they did pull themselves out of it, which is to their great credit.

BERMAN: Yeah.

CAMEROTA: And -- I don't know. Somehow I think the empathy for being terrified could -- well.

Meanwhile, FBI Director Chris Wray appears before Congress this morning for the first time since the Capitol insurrection.

[08:25:00]

So, what do lawmakers want to ask him today? Senator Dick Durbin is going to join us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So, just minutes from now, FBI Director Christopher Wray will make his first appearance before Congress since the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

Joining me now is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Illinois Senator Dick Durbin.

Mr. Chairman, thanks so much for being with us.

This is the first time we're going to hear from the FBI director since the insurrection. This is the first time he's appearing before your committee in an oversight capacity, I think, in like a year and a half. It's a long time.

What's the most important question you have for him today?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): We start with January 6th. We want to know what the FBI knew about what was going to happen, when they knew it and whether they shared that information. I'm sure there will be a lot of questions along those lines.

But getting to the heart of the issue, the insurrection mob that tried to take over the Capitol and interrupt our constitutional responsibilities is just evidence I think of a growing threat of domestic terrorism in the United States.

I want to make it clear I have no tolerance for violence on the right or the left, but currently, we're dealing with white supremacist groups which are well-armed and determined to kill innocent people.

BERMAN: Now, you had a conversation with the FBI director last week in advance of this hearing. You're also part of a letter to the FBI.

[08:30:00]