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Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) is Interviewed about Security Failures, the Relief Bill, and the Saudi Crown Prince; Gold Medal Gymnast Calls for Independent Probe; Activity at North Korean Nuclear Site. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired March 02, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00]

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Which are well armed and determined to kill innocent people.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, you had a conversation with the FBI director last week in advance of this hearing. You're also part of a letter to the FBI director, raising concerns about the rise of white supremacy and what the FBI is doing about it.

Can you tell us about that conversation?

DURBIN: Well, I spoke to him about it because we had raised this the last time we came together in the committee. And I told him I didn't believe that we were keeping the information statistics as to the incidents of this type of domestic terrorism, nor were we sharing information adequately with the state and local law enforcement who are an important part of this picture. So I hope we can follow up on that line of questioning.

But let me tell you, it doesn't end there. When you consider the threats to the United States, since 9/11 we've been looking across the oceans at threats and now we're looking across the street in America and wondering where the threats may come from. We've got to ask the basic question whether our intelligence gathering is keeping up with the threat to America today.

BERMAN: Well, it also won't end here because there's revisions. I mean there's an active effort to erase the role of this in our history, even our recent history, on January 6th. I just want to play for a second the types of things they're saying on a different cable network.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: There's no evidence that white supremacists were responsible for what happened on January 6th. That's a lie.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: Of course, the various members of the Capitol Police force who have testified before Congress already say, no, there were absolutely white supremacists there and this was something that played a role.

So you're talking to Christopher Wray about how to deal with this on a law enforcement side, but how do you deal with the blatant revisionism out there?

DURBIN: Well, we have to understand we're dealing with the next big lie. The first big lie was that President Trump actually won the election. The next big lie -- I heard someone use the term, this was a jovial crowd. Jovial? At the end of the day we have one of the Capitol Police officers, unfortunately, lost his life, two others committed suicide within hours, and 140 were injured. That's a jovial crowd? Infiltrated by a handful of leftists? We know better. We've got the videotape.

And, unfortunately, half of the people who still pledge allegiance to Donald Trump believe that second lie about this infiltration by the left. It didn't happen. And we've got to make it clear by making the official record clear.

BERMAN: I think that was Senator Ron Johnson reading something into the record last week, that jovial statement, yes?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that some of the statements that he's made are preposterous. I respect him as a senator from another state, but he sounds like a senator from another planet.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about the status of the relief package, the $1.9 trillion package, because President Biden met yesterday via Zoom with a number of Democratic senators who are seen to be more in the middle. Joe Manchin was among this group. And we know that Manchin has asked for changes. He wants to see it, he says, more targeted. He wants to change the weekly unemployment benefit from $400 a week to $300 a week. He wants to have the stimulus, the $1,400 stimulus checks, be more targeted to people probably making less than $75,000.

Are you concerned? Or what's your level of concern about Senator Manchin's vote this morning?

DURBIN: I can tell you, I was part of the group. I've been working with Joe Manchin going back several months trying to get bipartisan solutions. I think we all applaud that. In a 50/50 Senate, that reflects reality.

And the meeting yesterday was very respectful. Remember, the president sat down with the Republicans who were a part of that group several weeks ago. He has been open to listening to their ideas. He believes, and I do, too, that we need a massive investment in America right now for the vaccine, for distribution, for helping families that are struggling, unemployment benefits.

Joe Manchin's approach, as he said, is not to cut the amount of money but to target it. It is not an unreasonable request. And I think we should try to find some common ground, if we can, without compromising the relief package that absolutely needs to be passed.

BERMAN: You're the Democratic whip in the Senate. It's your job to count votes. As we sit here this morning, do you have Joe Manchin's vote?

DURBIN: Well, I'm not going to presume Joe's vote. He's a man of conscience and he'll make up his own mind. But I do respect him. I think he's looking to make this package better. We disagree on some elements. I can tell you that. But the bottom line is, I believe he wants to work in a constructive fashion, not to destroy the president's rescue plan, which America desperately needs.

BERMAN: The Biden administration, on Friday, released the intelligence on the murder of "Washington Post" columnist Jamal Khashoggi and said that the Saudi crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman, directed this assassination. As of now we know of no action taken by the Biden administration against the Saudi crown prince.

Why should he feel deterred from doing something like this again?

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that there could be things underway, and I say could be, I don't have any information, that you may never know that will impact the Saudi royalty.

[08:35:05]

But I have felt from the beginning that the crown prince was an accomplice or maybe even the architect of what happened, unfortunately, to Mr. Khashoggi. We have to make it clear to them that there's a price to be paid for that outrageous product.

BERMAN: Based on what you do know, though, and what I know from reading the newspapers and listening to the statements from the Biden administration, has the Biden administration done enough this morning?

DURBIN: Well, not that we know of. And I'll go back to that point. I want to give the president the leeway to make the right decision for the security of America.

BERMAN: But can I say that -- but the problem is we don't know of it. And one of the things about being a determiner, making a statement to the world is you have to do it publicly. So if it's in secret, it's not telling the world that we're punishing the Saudi crown prince.

DURBIN: I have not been an apologist for the royal family, and I believe that their situation in Yemen is the most outrageous humanitarian tragedy of our time. And I have said as much on the floor.

But I want to give this president an opportunity to do what he thinks is right for the country and I believe that he can do that in a way that will be a deterrence to the royal family to consider any other intrigue along these lines.

BERMAN: No, you have -- you have been very tough on the Saudi regime for years. I want to ask one question about New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, since you are a leading national Democrat.

Anna Ruch, a third woman, has come forward and accused him of inappropriate sexual behavior.

Do you think that the governor should consider resigning?

DURBIN: It's a troubling situation, but I've been through this before with other colleagues, and I just have to say, the investigation should be completed, and should be as quickly as possible and credibility given to the charges. And if that's done in a timely way, that will be a better opportunity for us to decide the fate of that governor.

BERMAN: Senator Dick Durbin, Mr. Chairman, we'll be watching your hearing today very closely.

Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

DURBIN: You bet.

BERMAN: So here's what else to watch today.

ON SCREEN TEXT: 10:00 a.m. ET, FBI Director Wray testifies on Capitol Hill.

10:00 a.m. ET, Supreme Court hears voting rights case.

4:14 p.m. ET, President Biden speaks on coronavirus.

BERMAN: So new concerns this morning about North Korea and nuclear weapons. What these new satellite images may reveal. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41:40]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Olympic champion Aly Raisman calling for an independent investigation into USA Gymnastics after former gymnastics coach John Geddert killed himself after charges were announced against him for human trafficking and sexual assault. Geddert's charges follow the conviction of Dr. Larry Nassar for sexually abusing hundreds of gymnasts, including Raisman.

Joining us now is gold-medal gymnast and advocate Aly Raisman.

Aly, great to see you this morning.

ALY RAISMAN, GOLD MEDAL GYMNAST AND ADVOCATE: Hi. How are you?

CAMEROTA: I'm doing well.

How are you doing? What were your thoughts when you heard that John Geddert had killed himself just hours after being charged with, you know, all of the sexual assault, sexual abuse all of those things? RAISMAN: I mean it's really hard to put into words. I was obviously

very triggered and it's -- yes, it's hard to put into words the emotions I was thinking about. My really good friends that were with him for -- spent majority of their childhood and teenage years with John Geddert and all the other survivors that I don't even know.

But then I was thinking about how John Geddert and Larry Nassar were very good friends and Larry Nassar worked at John Geddert's gym. And so I think this all goes back to how USA Gymnastics and the United States Olympic Committee enable these monsters to thrive in the sport and it's really concerning.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about that because you say that John Geddert and Larry Nassar, these were the adults in the room. These were the people who were supposed to be keeping you safe. These were the people who, you know, your parents and people trusted when you were traveling and spending long periods on the road with them. And you say, though, that it's bigger than them. And so what do you mean by that?

RAISMAN: So I tweeted a couple of days ago, I would travel internationally with Steve Penny, Marvin Sharp, John Geddert, Larry Nassar and three of those men were charged with some form of child molestation or some form of sexual assault. And Steve Penny was charged with destroying evidence. And so it's -- it's so disturbing. And I just think it's so important for people to understand, like, monsters don't thrive for decades without the help of people. And we need to understand what happened, how this happened. Like, people don'ts thrive for decades being abusive without the help of a lot of people. And we really need a fully independent investigation. And the scope of the investigation, it matters. And there has not been one.

CAMEROTA: OK, well, USA Gymnastics says there has been one. There's been more than one. There's been six is what they say. That there have been these independent investigations.

Let me just read to you what they -- they sent us a long statement about this in response. So let me just read the full thing.

It says, to date, USA Gymnastics has participated in at least six independent investigations led by several congressional committees, the Indiana attorney general, Walker County, Texas, and independent law firm Ropes & Gray. USA Gymnastics has fully cooperated with all investigative bodies, including by producing information that they have requested and by supporting the release of the office of inspector general's report of its investigation into the FBI. We are deeply committed to learning from these investigations and finding ways to prevent abuse in the future.

[08:45:02]

So why don't those six independent investigations that they refer to, why aren't those enough?

RAISMAN: Well, the scope of the investigation matters. And these men, John Geddert, Larry Nassar, they've been thriving in the sport for decades. For example, John Geddert, there was a private investigation that USA Gymnastics did in 2011. I wasn't aware of it, but I was around John Geddert at the time. He coached one of my very good friends, among many other athletes. USA Gymnastics didn't mention anything to us, and we don't even know why they wanted to investigate it and nothing ever happened. In fact, they awarded him with being the 2012 Olympic coach.

So I would like to know how many other people are they investigating that are abusive and allowing them to continue to work with children?

There's also been a lot of resignations over the last couple of years that those people might have been involved in the cover-up. Where are they now? Are they working with children? We -- the scope of the investigation matters. Nobody should be off limits. This needs to go back decades.

It's -- I don't know why USA Gymnastics is saying they're cooperating. I've spoken to many members of law enforcement who have said they've been extremely difficult. They're not handing over all their documents and data. And until we understand everything that happened, we have access to every single email, phone calls, data, every single thing you can imagine, we can't believe in a future that's safe for the sport.

And, also, Steve Penny pled the fifth when he was speaking to Congress. So I don't know what they're talking about when they're saying that they're cooperating because they're certainly not.

CAMEROTA: So fair to say that you think that the investigations could go further, and you also want to know the findings. You don't believe that they're sharing the findings with you.

RAISMAN: I definitely don't believe they're sharing the findings. I mean you really have to think about, like just picture minors traveling with Steve Penny, Marvin Sharp, John Geddert, Larry Nassar and there's other people there, too. Like my question is, how did so many adults around us witness these horrible people with minors and not say anything and it makes you think, and question, well, what's going on with these other people that they're not thinking -- there's a lot of pedophiles around right now. Why is nobody doing anything?

And so it's very disturbing. We don't have the answers. And in order for us to truly believe in change, there needs to be accountability and there needs to be answers. And USA Gymnastics needs to be more transparent. Like, they need to explain why they investigated John Geddert in 2011 and why nobody told anyone. In fact, they awarded him with being the Olympic coach. And who else are they investigating that we don't know about? It's very concerning and the leadership at USA Gymnastics is, in my opinion, is not doing a good job. And it's even looking at Li Li's statement, the CEO of USA Gymnastics, a couple of days ago, she commented on what happened with John Geddert and she said something along the lines of, I don't want to take away from the seriousness, but she wanted to focus on the competition this weekend. And if you want to support the athletes this weekend, you should protect them from some form of abuse. So they're trying to sweep it under the rug like they normally do.

CAMEROTA: Aly Raisman, we really appreciate getting your perspective on all of this. Thank you very much, and we'll talk to you again.

RAISMAN: Thank you so much for having me.

CAMEROTA: Up next, new satellite images of North Korea. Why some say this shows an effort to hide something.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:36]

BERMAN: CNN has obtained new satellite images that reveal North Korea is trying to conceal a nuclear weapon site.

CNN's Kylie Atwood live at the State Department with the very latest on this.

Kylie, what have you learned?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, John, let's look at what these images show us and then talk a little bit about their significance.

So I want to pull up the image from December of 2019. This is an image that demonstrates that there is a tunnel into the underground, into what is believed to be, according to U.S. intelligence, a North Korea nuclear weapons storage facility.

Then I want to fast forward to the next image that we have here. This is from just last month, February of 2021. In that image, same location, tunnels are hidden. There is a new construction that has happened that is demonstrative of an effort by North Koreans to conceal their program, to conceal a place where it is believed that they store their nuclear weapons.

So in the grand scheme of things, these demonstrate what the U.S. really already knows about North Korea's nuclear program, right? They continue to build up their nuclear capacity, as they continue to conceal and hide the stockpile that they already have.

And these images are significant because they come out right now at the beginning of the Biden administration. The Biden administration is working to form its North Korea policy. They've said that they are going to work with allies, Japan and South Korea, in forming that policy. I'm told that this policy could come out in the next few months or weeks.

Now, these images, however, obtained by my colleague, Zach Cohen, demonstrate a growing sense of urgency. They cannot wait too long because this problem continues to grow more and more complicated if they do.

BERMAN: Can't wait months with pictures like that out there.

Thanks, Kylie.

CAMEROTA: Thanks, Kylie. All right, it's time for "The Good Stuff."

Listen to this. A Colorado man is lucky to be alive after crashing his snowmobile. Lance McGinn was riding snowmobile with a friend but after they split up a wind drift threw McGinn's sled in the air and it flipped on top of him. Around that same time, Ken Russell was arguing with his wife about going out in a blizzard. He says he was unaware that someone was missing, he just felt something was compelling him to go out. McGinn had been pinned under the snow for hours when Russell suddenly spotted him.

[08:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN RUSSELL, SNOWMOBILER: So I did a 360 and came back around. And then I could see these legs kicking underneath there. And I turn my snowmobile off and I heard this shouting, help me, help me. He said, are you search and rescue?

LANCE MCGINN, SNOWMOBILER: He said, no. And I'm like, well, you must be my guardian angel today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Russell was able to lift the snowmobile and free McGinn. He says it was an act of God that drove him there. Now the pair have made plans to meet and ride together soon. That's a commitment to snowmobiling.

BERMAN: It's really fun.

CAMEROTA: It is really fun. It is really fun.

BERMAN: But, good for them. It's a great story.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Usually after a near death experience, you would reconsider, but not them. There you go.

CNN's coverage --

BERMAN: I come back to do the show with you every day.

CAMEROTA: That's right. You're right. Why don't you get the (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: CNN's coverage continues next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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