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FBI Director Shoots Down Insurrection Conspiracies; Pentagon to Release Report on Ronny Jackson; Pandemic Mistakes the U.S. Keeps Repeating. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired March 03, 2021 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:34]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Based on your investigation so far, do you have any evidence that the Capitol attack was organized by, quote, fake Trump protesters?
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FBI: We have not seen evidence of that.
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Is there any evidence at all that it was organized or planned or carried out by groups like Antifa or Black Lives Matter?
WRAY: We have not seen any evidence to that effect thus far in the investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So FBI Director Christopher Wray repeatedly, systematically shooting down the lies about who was behind the U.S. Capitol attack. This morning, senators will question the commanding general of the D.C. National Guard and other national security officials.
Joining us now, CNN counterterrorism analyst Philip Mudd and Elizabeth Neumann. She's the former assistant secretary of Homeland Security.
I want to play one more exchange here. As I said, Christopher Wray systematically, like line by line, piece by piece, blew up the revisionist history trying to be created by Republican lawmakers and conservative talking heads like this guy.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS: There's no evidence that white supremacists were responsible for what happened on January 6th. That's a lie.
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): Is there any doubt that the people who stormed the Capitol included white supremacists and other far-right extremist organizations? CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FBI: There's no doubt that it included
individuals that we would call militia violent extremists and then, in some instances, individuals that were racially motivated, violent extremists who advocate for, you know, the superiority of the white race.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So, Elizabeth, when can we expect the apology from that Fox News host and the Republican senators like Ron Johnson who said it was Antifa? When is that coming, do you think?
ELIZABETH NEUMANN, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Oh, John, you know that that's never going to happen. But I do think that it's really important that we continue as more witnesses come forward, we continue to be clear about the facts. I think it does have an effect on certain -- a certain type of Republican who might be predisposed to believing Fox, but the more that this gets injected into their thought process, they start to realize that some of the things that they may have been told, you know, about an election being stolen, maybe, maybe that's a lie, too. So it's really important that they keep up with the basics about the facts, in particular, understanding where the threat comes from is a really important part of countering it. If you think it's coming from over here, you miss out that it's coming from over there. So we really need the American public to understand where the threat is coming from so that we can all, in a unified way, push back against it and hopefully save lives.
BERMAN: Well, let's hear it, where Christopher Wray said the threat is coming from in terms of domestic terror.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, DIRECTOR, FBI: January 6th was not an isolated event. The problem of domestic terrorism has been metastasizing across the country for a long time now. And it's not going away any time soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: How big a problem is it this morning, Phil?
PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Boy, I thought with the numbers you heard yesterday, the FBI director talked about 2,000 cases, probably give -- you're not going to believe this -- the American people too rosy a picture what's happening in this country.
The reason I say this is because the director talked about how long this has been going on. Remember, the FBI doesn't have that many agents. And they've got to cover stuff like gangs and white collar crime. So the fact that they have only 2,000 cases to me tells me that that's -- they're -- I would guess if they had 100,000 agents, you'd have 100,000 cases. What he's telling us is he's seeing evidence of a societal, a cultural problem, not just a law enforcement problem. Thirty-three hundred counties roughly in the United States, I would bet there's at least a case in every county in America, John.
So tomorrow, Phil, is March 4th, which is this date that some QAnon crazies have circled as their calendar as the date where, I don't know, that Donald Trump somehow ascends from the depths, takes over the White House again. And there's concern -- there is concern about violence. We heard from the House sergeant at arms.
What level of concern do you think security officials should have on this when I know there's not a specific like written, credible threat exactly.
MUDD: High concern, low probability. This is one of those things we used to call when I was in the business a 1 percent problem. If you go -- if there's an event on the 6th, and I don't think there will be -- if there's an event -- pardon me, the 4th -- you can't go into a hearing and say, we were 99 percent confident nothing would happen.
[08:35:05]
So when you're in the business you've got to sit there and wait until midnight to say, man, I hope that we can get out of this one without a problem. When you're outside the business, as I am now, you look at the information that's coming across, for example, social media and you can assess that there's a 99 percent chance, like on Inauguration Day, we will hear a lot of stuff, but not much will happen. You just can't assume that when you're in the business, John.
BERMAN: Yes, Christopher Wray said we need to bat a thousand on this.
MUDD: Yes.
BERMAN: And clearly didn't on the 6th. And so they have to bat a thousand on March 4th also and the days surrounding it.
Elizabeth Neumann, we're going to hear from the commander of the D.C. National Guard today. What questions do you think need to be answered on that front in terms of when they were asked to respond, how quickly they responded, their role on January 6th?
NEUMANN: It should be a really interesting hearing, especially compared to the ones that we've seen previously, which had been all of the very senior levels of the organizations involved. You're going to hear from people in Phil's old position, the counterterrorism division director, and the undersecretary or the acting undersecretary for intelligence and analysis at DHS. These are people that were on the watch on January 6th. So we haven't really quite heard that viewpoint yet.
And as it pertains to the National Guard, I think we know the story there, but it would be nice to hear directly from them that they did not have the ability to respond in the way that they felt that they should have and the way that they normally can, and that that led to a delayed ability to contain the riots, the insurrection, the mob and possibly led to more injuries and death.
So I think it is interesting. Most of our focus in these hearings has been on the intel and who knew what, when. The National Guard piece really is the other side of the story that may indicate at least dereliction of duty, possibly some political interference, which is, you know, in my view, criminal if that is what pans out.
BERMAN: Hey, Phil, if someone was crazy enough to let you ask a question in a hearing like this, what's the one question you would ask?
MUDD: Well, give me two. One's real easy, where was the White House in terms of coordinating? Were they there, yes or no? And the second quick question would be, explain to me whether the policies and procedures that you followed were identical based on the fact that the president was the one instigating this? Was is the same responses you would have had otherwise? They're going to say yes. I just don't buy it, John. I don't buy it.
BERMAN: I've got to say, you ask questions as insightful as that, people are going to ask you to ask even more, Phil. Those are great questions.
Elizabeth Neumann, thank you for being with us.
Phil, thank you for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.
MUDD: Thank you.
BERMAN: The Pentagon is about to release a scathing new report on Congressman Ronny Jackson's time as White House doctor. We have the details already, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:41:58]
CAMEROTA: Developing overnight, the Pentagon about to release a scathing watchdog report of Republican Congressman Ronny Jackson and his time as the top White House physician in the Obama and Trump administrations.
CNN's Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon with the details first being reported by CNN.
So what have you learned, Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.
Of course, Ronny Jackson, retired as a rear admiral in the U.S. Navy. He was the presidential physician to both President Obama and Trump. And now this report, this investigation, which was actually ordered by Congress, is absolutely scathing. The findings include, according to the report, that Ronny Jackson, while he was that White House physician, made sexual and denigrating comments about a female subordinates and violated the policy and used alcohol while on a presidential trip and took prescription sleeping drugs, potentially raising the question of whether he would be able to administer medical care to a president if it became necessary. Now, Ronny Jackson issuing a statement, very strongly denying these
allegations, saying in part, and I want to read it to people, quote, I am proud of the work environment I fostered under three different presidents of both parties. I take my professional responsibility with respect to prescription drug practices seriously, and I flat-out reject any allegation that I consumed alcohol while on duty.
The Department of Defense inspector general has quite a different view than Congressman Jackson. We are waiting to see what the U.S. Navy reaction is to this. He is retired, but he could be subject to some kind of action still from the U.S. Navy. Ronny Jackson very strongly denying the allegations. The inspector general offering quite a different story.
John.
BERMAN: Barbara Starr breaking the news before it even happens. Great to have you on this morning. Thanks so much.
STARR: Thank you.
BERMAN: Here's what else to watch today.
ON SCREEN TEXT: 10:00 a.m. ET, Capitol insurrection hearing.
11:00 a.m. ET, White House coronavirus briefing.
12:30 p.m. ET, White House press briefing.
CAMEROTA: And up next, five pandemic mistakes the United States and the media keep making.
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[08:48:53]
CAMEROTA: We have been dealing with COVID hell for more than a year now, but according to a new article in "The Atlantic," we still keep making the same mistakes in how we talk about it, particularly those of us in the media.
Here to yell at us is the author of that article, "5 Pandemic Mistakes We Keep Repeating." Joining us now is Zeynep Tufekci. She's a contributing writer at "The Atlantic."
I'm only half kidding, Zeynep, because, I mean, you have been monitoring the messaging over the past year about the pandemic and I think you make some really interesting points. So let me just start with your premise. Let me read from the article and just start with the premise.
You say, we need to be able to celebrate profoundly positive news while noting the work that still lies ahead. However, instead of balanced optimism since the launch of the vaccines, the public has been offered a lot of misguided fretting over new virus variants, subjected to misleading debates about the inferiority of certain vaccines, and presented with long lists of things vaccinated people still cannot do.
OK, so let's just take that apart for a second. For instance, the misguided fretting over new virus variants.
[08:50:00]
We talk to the health officials, the top national health officials all the time. They tell us that the new variants are keeping them up at night. So how is it misguided?
ZEYNEP TUFEKCI, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": It's their job to keep -- stay up at night and worry about the future. Do we need a new booster in fall? Do we need to sort of adjust? How do we need to speed up? But it's not really our job to try to read and interpret, you know, neutralizing antibodies or this and that because the bottom line for us is that the vaccines we have in the United States are still working very well against the new variants. They're preventing death and hospitalization and even severe disease.
Johnson & Johnson was tested in trials against the new variants, and it was doing these things we care about very well. It's preventing the hospitalizations, the deaths and it's really reducing even severe disease. And we've tested the other ones in labs and we've seen like all these very encouraging signs.
Yes, of course, there are people whose professional job is to worry. Do I need to update this? Do I need to sort of have another vaccine a year later when we do a booster perhaps to this? But I think the fretting, and I think it's totally fine for the scientists and the health professionals to do, it's not for us to kind of lose faith in, lose sight of this amazing thing in that the vaccines are working. They're working very well. And, yes, it's true the next month is going to be tough, too, so it's not time for us to, you know, disregard all the precautions right now.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
TUFEKCI: But just sort of (INAUDIBLE) and get one of those (INAUDIBLE) things. Yes.
CAMEROTA: But shouldn't we -- but, I mean, in the media, shouldn't we tell people that next month is going to be worrisome? I mean is that fretting or is that alerting people?
TUFEKCI: No. No. So I think -- this is exactly what I mean. I think we're seeing some states like remove all indoor restrictions and say no more mask mandates. I don't think that's right either. That's exactly what I mean by realism and balanced optimism. So you want to tell people, you know what, the next month, if you're not vaccinated yet, it's still a time you could get infected. It's a time where we could still have outbreaks because, you know, the vaccines don't work before you're vaccinated.
But they're rolling out very fast. So just hang in there for a month, maybe a little bit more, because it looks like almost by April, May, everybody who wants to get the vaccine will get one. So we just have to make sure, how do we do this in an equitable way? How do we not leave people out? How do we vaccinate the rest of the world? You know, these are the problems we should solve.
So that's what I mean. Because when the polio vaccine was announced, like church bells rang and people ran through the streets and celebrated. And, you know, because it was amazing to see the end of a terrible disease.
Instead, I'm seeing, you know, individual reports about one allergic reaction that didn't even end in anything terrible. You know, we have peanut allergies and some people have other allergies. It's not, you know, something that's terrible. And I'm not really seeing either the jubilance that these vaccines have come so fast. This wasn't preordained. It may have taken us years and we got them so early.
This pathogen could have been like HIV, which is just very hard to vaccinate against.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
TUFEKCI: So we have (INAUDIBLE) happen to us. But, as you say, I think it's also very good to tell people that this doesn't solve the problem before enough people are vaccinated for the country. And it certainly doesn't solve your individual problem before you're vaccinated as a person. But --
CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean it's the balance that you're talking about?
TUFEKCI: (INAUDIBLE). Yes. Yes.
CAMEROTA: I mean -- yes. I think that you point out that -- and every morning we try to thread that needle of the jubilance, as you say, or the optimism I guess, is more appropriate, and the still cautionary note. But on balance, you're saying that you think the media and public officials have been too negative?
TUFEKCI: Well, I think what has happened is, unfortunately last year we had a lot of concern about the information, right? The administration was saying one thing. The president was saying one thing. The CDC director was trying to sometimes say another thing. Sometimes not. So it was really confusing.
So we got into this habit of, you know, like fretting over the latest scientific pre-print and that's just going to mislead us. I mean I -- that's the part I worry about is that we're kind of getting lost in the weeds, which, for professionals, they know they're supposed to think about what's the worst case scenario. But what the media should do is, for me, for you, like what's the bottom line here?
And the bottom line with the variants is the vaccines we have in the United States are doing their job, even against the variants, and they're watching it to see if we're going to need to update them in the future. Like that's the bottom line. You know, the latest paper says this and this and we don't know this and I think that's just causing people to not understand how soon things are going to get much better. [08:55:05]
It's not today. So I'm not really saying, you know, states should just open up today because that's a little bit like spiking the ball right before the touchdown. That's not smart. Like, we're -- but the touchdown portion for the United States is really close. So close that we should be discussing, what are we going to do with our excess (ph)? We're going to have a lot. We're going to have too many vaccines. Which is great. We should be considering, you know, which countries, which neighboring countries, other countries are we going to transfer them to provide balance and make sure variants don't arrive elsewhere in the world.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
TUFEKCI: And it's just (INAUDIBLE). These are good things to discuss. And I really think we should just have -- celebrate how good things got so quickly on the vaccine front.
CAMEROTA: That's -- I mean I think that your polio analogy is a great one. The church bells were ringing everywhere. I think that's important to keep in mind.
Zeynep Tufekci, we have to go. I really appreciate you, but I recommend everybody go to "The Atlantic" and read the "Pandemic Mistakes We Keep Repeating."
Thank you very much.
TUFEKCI: Thank you very much for inviting me.
BERMAN: Look, I'm always looking to have a celebration. I don't even need a reason. I'll celebrate the polio vaccine today.
CAMEROTA: Let's do it.
BERMAN: All right.
CAMEROTA: CNN's coverage continues, next.
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