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Debate to Begin on COVID Relief Bill; Rep. Lofgren (D-CA) Releases Report on Lawmakers' Posts Around Insurrection; Gov. Cuomo Accuser Speaks Out about Sexual Harassment Claims. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired March 05, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The White House is making one final push to get the COVID relief bill through the Senate, over the objections of Republicans.

[06:00:07]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I'm trying to do is make this a more deliberative process.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More states rolling back COVID-19 safety measures.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I will not keep the mask order in effect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Evidence supports their use in preventing disease and death.

NICK WATT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On average, more than 2 million doses now going into American arms every day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we continue to vaccinate more and more and more, we'll get rid of the masks. But I don't know, really, what the big rush is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Friday, March 5. It's 6 a.m. here in New York.

And story time is over in the U.S. Senate. Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, who has proven that his tastes normally run toward make- believe and fantasy, overnight demanded a foray into non-fiction.

As Americans wait for passage of a $1.9 trillion economic relief bill that has the approval of at least 62 percent of Americans, Johnson held up the process by demanding that the entire 628-page bill be read out loud. So after 11 straight hours, it finally wrapped up at 2 a.m. The Senate is set to actually begin debating the bill today. And we

have new reporting on how Republicans intend to gum up the works even more.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Also, federal investigators are examining the communications between members of Congress and Capitol rioters, to see whether any lawmakers, wittingly or unwittingly, helped the insurrectionists.

At this point, investigators have no evidence that members of Congress knowingly aided or were involved in the insurrection, but the investigation continues.

Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill with our top story. Good morning, Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

So after 10 hours and 45 minutes, the reading of this 628-page bill is finally concluded. And what this means is that today, once senators come back into the chamber around noon, we expect to see that this vote-a-rama could begin as soon as then.

Now, just to keep an eye on, the vote-a-rama is essentially an opportunity for Republicans to offer amendment after amendment and give Democrats a tough opportunity to have to take votes that could potentially divide their caucus.

Now, the president and majority leader Chuck Schumer have both made it clear that they want to make sure that their Democratic colleagues stick together. But it could last hours, Alisyn.

And that is going to be the final step before lawmakers can take that vote on Biden's first big legislative package in the Senate, a $1.9 trillion COVID relief bill. The final text of that bill released yesterday, so lawmakers having some time to read through it.

But of course, it looks very similar to the House proposal, with one very big difference. It does not include that $15 minimum wage increase -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Lauren, stick around.

We want to bring in CNN political analyst and "Washington Post" White House reporter Seung Min Kim.

Seung Min, again, I will note that Ron Johnson's tastes normally run toward fantasy; he likes to make stuff up. Bo it was notable that he was into nonfiction last night. His taste changed. He wanted the 628 bill read out loud. That would be nonfiction.

But what did it accomplish, other than, as Chuck Schumer said, giving the Senate clerk maybe a sore throat?

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I'm pretty impressed at the stamina of the Senate clerks there. I mean, Ron Johnson's main goal was to obviously delay. You know, what

Chuck Schumer said, was to delay the inevitable. But this is a tactic that we're going to see writ large from Republicans for a lot of bills that Senate Democrats try to pass this year.

You're going to see them trying to throw up a lot of dilatory tactics, to you know, read the bill, to throw up a lot of votes in the vote-a- rama later today.

And another big objective for Senate Republicans, they know this bill is popular with the American public, and they're trying to bring those numbers down. They believe that, because the American public only really knows about these popular provisions, like the $1,400 checks to individuals, and they believe that a full airing of this bill and the extraneous provisions that's in it, will actually make it less popular with the American public.

So you're going to see a lot of that talk later today, but again, this bill is on the track to pass in the next, you know, 24 hours or so.

CAMEROTA: Here's why it's important not to delay, for people who are struggling. Here's what's expiring next week. The temporary unemployment benefits that people have been relying on. The employer tax credit for providing paid, sick, and family leave during this time of vast illness. And expanded Food Stamp benefits for people who are hungry and children who do not have enough food right now. So that's why it's important to get this passed.

You know, Lauren, just give me some context here. Is this -- is this obstructionist tactic something that Democrats also employ, or is Ron Johnson, you know, grasping at straws here?

FOX: Well, certainly, Democrats in the past, when it came to Republican pieces of legislation that were moving quickly through the Senate, through the special budget process known as reconciliation, tried to throw up their own road blocks. This is something that is commonly deployed.

[06:05:10]

But I will note that it is special to ask for a reading of the bill. This is something that any senator could do at any point, on any piece of legislation that comes to the floor. But you may not have even been aware of it, because normally, all the senators just agree to go ahead and skip that step, in part to save the clerk, you know, from the trouble of actually reading this legislation.

And that's not because senators don't read these bills on their own or their staff isn't going through these bills on their own. It's more just because, obviously, reading 628 pages of legislative text is not, "A," that interesting. Legislative text is very hard to understand. And I think that that is part of the reason that they normally skip that step.

[06:05:49] But certainly, Democrats have deployed, you know, dilatory tactics in the past. There is just something very special about forcing Senate staff to have to read this bill in full, because obviously, the Senate staff, they're not the ones voting for this legislation. They didn't write this legislation. The clerks are there for both Republicans and Democrats to do their job here. They're nonpartisan.

BERMAN: You know, I just thought of another genre that Ron Johnson doesn't like, and that's true crime. Right? Because he has worked so hard to deny the reality of what happened on the insurrection on January 6. So not into true crime, but last night into nonfiction.

CAMEROTA: Keep going.

BERMAN: Sung Min, you have new reporting on Lisa Murkowski. I'm old enough to remember when the Democrats in 2009 and '10 tried to get Olympia Snowe onboard for Obamacare. Tried and tried and tried for months and months, and it didn't work.

Now it seems that the White House is trying to work with Lisa Murkowski to get maybe a "yes" vote on the relief bill. She's showing signs, that no, she already voted against moving forward on it. But how open is her vote right now?

KIM: It's definitely in play. I think that her vote is something that is being watched very closely.

Senator Lisa Murkowski is going to be a critical swing vote for the Biden White House in a lot of policy and personnel matters. We just -- we saw how influential she was when she played a role in tanking Neera Tanden's nominee for Office of Management and Budget.

But right now she's remaining an open -- she is remaining pretty open to the COVID legislation, particularly because Alaska is hurting significantly. They have suffered significant revenue loss. It has a lower population. Their tourism industry has been decimated.

And there have been some recent changes to the Senate bill that actually helps lower populations like Alaska, and obviously, that is made with an aim at trying to get Lisa Murkowski's vote.

And the White House would love nothing more than to even just get one Republican vote. So that deprives Republicans of saying this had unified Republican opposition. It gives them some bipartisan cover.

And obviously, this would help Lisa Murkowski. If she gets what she wants, to bring home goodies back home to Alaska for a 2022 re- election race.

CAMEROTA: Lauren, as we've been talking about, investigators are looking into whether there was some witting or unwitting coordination between lawmakers and the murderous mob. And Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren is taking an interesting tack here in terms of showing what led up to January 6. What's she doing?

FOX: Well, what we saw yesterday is that Lofgren actually quietly released a nearly 2,000-page report that chronicled every single member of the House of Representatives who looked at overturning the results of the election.

And of course, not every single member had a lot of social media presence, but some members had a ton of social media posts, right after the election, and then leading up to the insurrection on January 6.

And that is significant, because you have a Democratic member, the chairwoman of the House Administration's Committee, essentially keeping track of what her colleagues were writing and saying on social media in the days leading up to the insurrection.

And I think that this is just notable, because you have nearly 2,000 pages of what are social media posts from her colleagues. I just can't remember another time in which you had members policing each other's social media activity.

But if you remember, this really speaks to the moment we are in in the House of Representatives. There is a lot of distrust, a chamber that one was seen as impenetrable now has metal detectors outside the House floor.

You also have, you know, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi warning that the enemy could be within the House of Representatives.

So I just thought this was another significant step. She quietly released this report. We saw it yesterday. And I think that it's just speaking to the moment that we are in.

Of course, this all comes as the FBI and law enforcement is looking into potential ties between members of Congress and people who stormed the Capitol on January 6.

BERMAN: All right. Lauren Fox, Seung Min Kim, thank you very much. Much more on what Lauren was just talking about. Federal investigators looking into these communications between lawmakers and the insurrectionists. There was some kind of a back and forth. What does that tell us? Are they looking into the possibility that members of Congress helped the insurrectionists? Next.

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CAMEROTA: CNN has learned that federal investigators are looking at communications between members of Congress and the Capitol rioters. They're trying to determine if lawmakers knowingly or even unknowingly helped the insurrectionist mob that broke into the Capitol on January 6.

Joining us now is CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Elie Honig.

Elie, what would they -- I know they're looking at all of these communications and metadata. What will they use to try to determine if this was somehow an inside job?

[06:15:00]

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Alisyn. So there will be two categories of information I would be looking at as a prosecutor.

First of all, social media information. Right? We just talked about how Representative Zoe Lofgren put out this report. I'd want to know, what were members of Congress putting out to their followers, their constituents over social media? How were they communicating with people over social media?

The second category is phone records. You can learn so much as a prosecutor from phone records. You can learn fairly easily and fairly commonly who was talking to who. What phone number was in contact with what phone number. When? How long did they talk for? And importantly, where physically were those phones located? The signals bounce off of towers, and you can tell within a fairly narrow range where they were. That's what meta data means.

And if you remember, a couple of days ago, Senator Josh Hawley was questioning the FBI director, Chris Wray. And Hawley was really focused on, do you have the meta data? You know, and that's what he was talking about. You have to wonder why was Representative Hawley so interested in that? That's key information that can help guide an investigation.

BERMAN: So what evidence could investigators find that would get members of Congress in trouble? And what kind of activity might be covered under the speech and debate clause? Because you will hear members suggest that, oh, they're just being members of Congress, you know, picking up the phones, answering them. That's OK.

HONIG: Yes, so first of all, just showing the fact that members of Congress communicated with insurrectionists, I think, raises a lot of questions. Why are they communicating, especially in the days leading up to January 6?

But you do have to go a step further. You have to show, what were they talking about? Now, to do that, I would start by talking to the insurrectionists. Right? If they've been arrested, charged with going into the Capitol, interview them. See if they'll cooperate.

What were you talking about? Why were you in touch with Congressperson So-and-so the day before or two days before the insurrection?

Also, our reporting is that investigators have some of those cell phones in their possession. And you can either get permission from the owner of that cell phone or you can get a warrant from a court to search that cell phone. Were there texts? Were there e-mails? That kind of communication.

Now, as to the speech and debate clause, this is a part of our Constitution that generally -- not always, but generally -- protects members of Congress from criminal or civil liability if they were doing their legislative jobs, if they were engaged in a legislative function.

I think talking to people about storming the Capitol, I do not think falls under the heading of legislative action.

CAMEROTA: Well, speaking of sitting down with the insurrectionists and talking to them about their motivation, that's what our former colleague, Laurie Segall, who's at "60 Minutes Plus," did. She did it with the, you know, probably most identifiable subject, who's the QAnon shaman. Malign (ph) minotaur here, we prefer.

BERMAN: You called him the moronic minotaur.

CAMEROTA: OK, the moronic minotaur.

BERMAN: That's what you said.

CAMEROTA: I mean, you know, I have a lot of the alliteration with him. But in any event, here's what he said his -- he said that he didn't feel that he was breaking and entering, basically. Here's his motivation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACOB CHANSLEY, CAPITOL RIOTER KNOWN AS "QANON SHAMAN": I didn't break any windows. I didn't break in any doors. I didn't cross any police barricades. I was peaceful, and I was civil. I was calm. I said a prayer, and I sang a song.

Police were waving people into the building. That's No. 1.

No. 2, I actually was escorted by a Capitol Police officer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Mm-hmm. Just because you -- so if you walk into a building, because the door was open, and you didn't actually break a window, does that make it OK?

HONIG: Yes, I give him points for creativity, I suppose. No, that's not going to get him anywhere.

Look, if this was sort of a normal day on the Mall in Washington, D.C., and people were wandering around, and he happened to wander into the Capitol and, you know, gaze admiringly at the statuary, maybe.

But of course, that's not what happened. That's a fantasy world. He was part of that mob. We've all seen the video of that mob. They overran the police. They went into the building.

That individual was charged with more than just sort of wandering around. He was charged with destruction of property. He was charged with threatening the vice president. So reality simply doesn't line up with that defense, as creative as -- as it is.

BERMAN: And also, we got a little sense of the motivation, at least from the mother of the minotaur.

CAMEROTA: Mama Minotaur. BERMAN: Mama Minotaur. Thank you very much. And our friend Laurie

Segall. I'm really doing this just to play more of Laurie's terrific interview. Laurie confronts the mother about, you know, what the motivation was altogether. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURIE SEGALL, "60 MINUTES PLUS": It is not your right to breach the Capitol, to go where you're not legally allowed to be.

MARTHA CHANSLEY, MOTHER OF JACOB CHANSLEY: You know what? What I would say to that is, I don't think it's right that it was won fraudulently. I don't believe it was won fairly at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: She says she doesn't believe the election was won fairly at all, Elie.

HONIG: Yes, I guess I see where the minotaur gets his creativity from. That's not going to help at all.

I mean, look, it doesn't matter what you believe. Especially when it's a complete fiction like this, that the election was not fairly won. That is not going to be a defense. That's not going to help the son in his criminal proceeding in any way, shape, or form.

[06:20:09]

CAMEROTA: He also said that he was just singing. He was howling, OK? He was howling. That was not singing.

BERMAN: Now you're a music critic?

CAMEROTA: Yes! OK, but moving on. The other very recognizable suspect is the guy who sat at Nancy Pelosi's desk, proudly put his feet up. So his name is Richard Barnett, and he apparently had this courtroom hearing yesterday, where he screamed, had an outburst in the courtroom. Said, It's not fair. He said, "This has been a bunch of crap."

He doesn't like that he's being kept in jail when other people have been able to be free. But there's a reason for that, Elie.

HONIG: Yes, not to put too fine a point on it, but he should have thought about that before he broke into the speaker of the House's office, before he stole property from that office. So now he's faced with the consequences. And maybe he feels like it's not fair, but, you know, too bad at this point.

I mean, you know, this is what accountability is all about. This is what the investigations are all about. This is what prosecution is all about.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but he also -- they also think he's a flight risk, because he did things like cleared out his house of any sort of evidence, and couldn't be found, and started wearing a mask. I mean, he did -- he also did things that led them to believe that he was going to take off.

HONIG: And that's why people get held pending trial. If they've demonstrated conduct like you've just laid out, Alisyn, showing that they may not show up, that they may take off, that's why people get held pending trial.

BERMAN: Elie, there's one legal argument that has been made in a lot of these cases that judges say doesn't really hold water. And that the defendants here, the rioters are using the "Trump made me do it" defense. Why aren't judges buying that?

HONIG: Yes. A judge already has rejected that specific defense. Could you imagine if that actually was a defense? If you said, Well, I believed that the president authorized me to do this?

I mean, first of all, that's not how our legal system works. The president doesn't just get to say, Well, there's this law, but I hereby excuse you. I authorize you to go in. I mean, it would be complete mayhem.

And I should add, it's not really helpful for Donald Trump, either. Politically speaking, bigger picture, it wasn't helpful for him in impeachment to have people saying, The reason we did this is because that's what we understood the president was telling us to do.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but I don't understand, Elie. It's one or the other. If they can't say, The president made me do it, then how can other prosecutors say, the president incited it? Either you have personal responsibility or you're listening to your commander in chief.

HONIG: Well, it could go both ways. Look, people are responsible for their own actions. And people who stormed into the Capitol and created property damage can and are being charged.

At the same time, if the president encouraged them, incited them, you know, sort of sparked them to go in, there could be liability for that, as well. So you could have both sides be liable for their own roles that they played in the insurrection.

BERMAN: Elie Honig, loquacious lawyer, amiable attorney, cunning counsel.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I like all of those.

BERMAN: Thank you very much.

HONIG: Alliterative anchor John Berman?

BERMAN: That's not bad. That's not bad. Well done.

CAMEROTA: We could do this all day. We will.

OK. Meanwhile, moving on to this developing story. One of the women accusing New York Governor Andrew Cuomo of sexual harassment is breaking her silence. What she is saying publicly for the first time in telling her story. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: New details this morning from one of the women accusing New York Governor Andrew Cuomo of sexual harassment.

CNN's Athena Jones is live in Albany with the latest. It was really interesting to hear her story, Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

It was. And we know that Governor Cuomo's former aide, Charlotte Bennett, was not satisfied by his apology on Wednesday. Her lawyer saying in a statement, the governor's comments were fall of falsehoods and inaccurate information. Bennett has called his actions predatory, and now we're seeing her say -- give these allegations on camera for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (voice-over): Former aide to New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, Charlotte Bennett, speaking out, recalling the June conversation she had with him in his office where she believes he tried to proposition her.

CHARLOTTE BENNETT, FORMER AIDE TO GOV. ANDREW CUOMO: He explains at that point that he is looking for a girlfriend. He is lonely; he's tired.

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: You've just finished dictation, and the governor is telling you he's lonely and looking for a relationship?

BENNETT: Yes. He asked if I had trouble enjoying being with someone, because of my drama.

JONES: Bennett says Cuomo went on to ask her if she'd ever slept with older men, a question the 25-year-old says she interpreted as an attempt to sleep with her.

BENNETT: He asked me if age difference mattered. He also explained that he was fine with anyone over 22.

O'DONNELL: And how old are you?

BENNETT: Twenty-five.

O'DONNELL: What were you thinking as he's asking you these questions?

BENNETT: I thought, He's trying to sleep with me. The governor is trying to sleep with me. And I'm deeply uncomfortable, and I have to get out of this room as soon as possible.

JONES: In a contemporaneous text exchange shared with CBS News, Bennett says to a friend, the governor, quote, "talked about age differences in relationships." Her friend replied, "Wait, what? Did he do something?"

Bennett answered, "No, but it was like the most explicit it could be."

Bennett says initially she felt shame at the thought of coming forward.

BENNETT: I feel like people put the onus on the woman to shut that conversation down, and by answering, I was somehow engaging in that or enabling it, when in fact, I was just terrified.

JONES: CNN reached out to Cuomo's office for comment on Bennett's allegations in this interview. His office referred to his apology.