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New Day

Harry and Meghan Make Stunning Claims in Interview with Oprah; Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) Defiant as Calls for Resignation Grow Louder. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 08, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Vaccine when it's their turn.

[07:00:01]

As for the game, featured Team LeBron versus Team Durant, first time ever, LeBron and Steph Curry were teammates for a game, and it was Steph and Giannis Antetokounmpo leading Team LeBron to a 20-point win. Giannis made all 16 of his shots. He was named the game's MVP.

And, you know, John, I went to the event. It didn't have the same electric atmosphere that an All-Star night usually has, because there weren't many people there in the stands. But props to the NBA for being able to hold this event during this difficult times and they certainly did raise a lot of money for some good causes.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: No, great that they did it, great for the cause, less defense than people, but that's always the case at the NBA. Andy Scholes, thank you very much.

New Day continues right now.

All right, welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day, and it is a day of reckoning for the house of Windsor. How will the palace react to the shocking statements from the duke and duchess of Sussex, known by their earthly names as Harry and Meghan, in their interview with Oprah Winfrey, Meghan revealing for the first time thoughts of suicide and stunning questions about racism within the royal family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: In those months when I was pregnant, all around this same time, so we have in tandem the conversation of, he won't going to be given security, he's not going to be given a title, and also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born.

OPRAH WINFREY, AMERICAN HOST: What?

MARKLE: And --

WINFREY: Who -- who is having that conversation with you? What?

MARKLE: So -- um --

WINFREY: there is a conversation -- hold up.

MARKLE: There are several conversations.

WINFREY: There's a conversation with you --

MARKLE: With Harry.

WINFREY: -- about how dark your baby is going to be?

MARKLE: Potentially, and what that would mean or look like.

WINFREY: Who? And you're not going to tell me who had the conversation?

MARKLE: I think that would be very damaging to them.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: Meghan also shared her feelings about being shunned, alone and trapped. She says she wound up in a very low place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARKLE: But I knew that if I didn't say it, that I would do it. And I just didn't -- I just didn't want to be alive anymore. And that was a very clear and real and frightening constant thought.

And I remember -- I remember how he just cradled me and I was -- I went to the institution, and I said that I needed to go somewhere to get help. I said, I've never felt this way before and I need to go somewhere. And I was told that I couldn't, that it wouldn't be good for the institution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: This morning, we await word from the palace, or the institution, as she calls it.

Joining us now is CNN Anchor and Royal Correspondent Max Foster. He is live at Windsor Castle. So, Max, tell us about the shockwaves that this is sending through the palace, through the U.K., what's the reaction so far?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, where to begin. I mean, there's revelation after revelation in this interview. We didn't get a preview. No one got a preview. No one in the palace got a preview. I imagine they are scrambling to try to come up with some sort of response.

This -- for many people, was billed as Meghan's Diana interview. Remember that 1995 interview Princess Diana gave to Martin Bashir of the BBC. It caused a crisis within the monarchy, which lasted years. I think this could potentially do the same.

It could potentially be even worse. Those comments about racism, you can't deny Meghan's experience of that. How do they respond to that is incredibly difficult situation for them to be in. There's a duty of care issue as well. A suicidal member of the family who wasn't supported, even when to the H.R. department and they said they couldn't help.

These are major allegations against the royal family and the palace, because they weren't just talking about the palace here, they were talking about family members, we need more detail about who these conversations were, Harry was having about the tone of his son's skin or unborn child's skin. I mean, it's extraordinary stuff.

We'll wait to get a response, but I imagine they're just trying to figure it out themselves.

BERMAN: Let's listen to Harry talking about this. We heard Meghan talking about the conversations about what Archie's skin would look like, but Harry talks about the conversations too.

[07:05:00]

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WINFREY: Here's the question, do you think you would have left or ever stepped back were it not for Meghan?

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: No. The answer to your question is no.

WINFREY: You would not have.

PRINCE HARRY: I wouldn't have been able to, because I, myself, was trapped, as well. I didn't --

WINFREY: She felt trapped. You were trapped?

PRINCE HARRY: Yes, I didn't see a way out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We'll come back to what Harry said about the skin tone in a second, Max, but let's take on the questions about how the family responded to Meghan's pleas about her mental health. There were questions about whether she was a threat to herself at a certain point. She begged for help and was told, more or less, no, you can't go for any kind of in-patient care.

FOSTER: There just didn't seem to be any sort of setup for it. So the human resources department said, you're not a member of staff, there's not much we can do. But she spoke to someone senior in the palace, we don't know who that was. So it does appear that everyone was aware of what a vulnerable state she was in.

She got so desperate one evening, there was an engagement the two of you were meant to be going to. Harry said to her, I don't think you should come, and she said, I can't be on my own. And it was desperate. And she talks about this photograph where they're clenching each other's hands. I mean, it was absolutely a desperate situation.

I mean, had heard rumors over the years or reports over the years of how she would often be found crying in the palace. And aides would tell me this. They just assumed, I was told, that she was just struggling a bit with it. She would adapt. I mean, it's a pretty tough place in there. You do give up so much.

And I think what Meghan speaks to quite profoundly is the freedom you give up when you become a member of the royal family. It's not really a fairy tale. You're not allowed to express yourself. You can't go out. She describes how she felt trapped in the palace. But it's much more than that. It's not what other people in the family suffered.

This is where she takes it to another level, where she's accusing them of institutional racism. And that's, you know, it's a massive accusation. And it feels really real when you watch the two hours.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Max, before we get to that --

FOSTER: It's a very powerful interview.

CAMEROTA: Yes, absolutely. And before we get to the institutional racism, I just want to build on that moment that you were talking about, because that is really powerful. So this was at her low. At her low, she felt if she were left alone, as you say, that she would harm herself. And so he forces her to go to this engagement.

So, first, let me play for you what she said and then we'll look at the picture, because it shows just the facade versus the reality. So here is what she told Oprah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARKLE: But we had to go to this event, and I remember him saying, I don't think you can go, and I said, I can't be left alone.

WINFREY: Because you were afraid of what you might do to yourself?

MARKLE: And we went. And --

WINFREY: I'm so sorry to hear that.

MARKLE: And that picture, if you zoom in, what I see is how tightly his knuckles are gripped around mine. You can see the whites of our knuckles, because we are smiling and doing our job, but we're both just trying to hold on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Max, that was January 16th, 2019. And, I mean, you can tell, she's not over it. I mean, this interview last night, it wasn't as though, okay, we're past it, we're free now, we've gotten all of this closure. They were like processing out loud what they have been through.

FOSTER: Yes, and it's very multilayered. So, you know, what you -- I spoke a lot to her team recently. And what they often talk about is this lack of support. So, lack of support, you know, in that example, we didn't know that was coming, but that was clearly what they were speaking to me about, but also the lack of support with these attacks in the tabloid media.

So, for a long time, her team were talking about the no-comment policy, and how that just left her vulnerable. But actually what she's done here is say, actually, they were spreading, allowing negative stories to spread about me. And they used the flower girl example, so there's a story about the -- you know, Meghan making Kate cry, which was sitting there in the tabloids, a huge story for a long time.

The palace never denied it, when everyone knew it was actually Kate that made Meghan cry, at least, that's Meghan's side of the story. We're going to have to get a reply on all of these things as time goes on. But it doesn't really matter what happened in this situation. What Meghan is saying is that she wasn't supported or protected by the system, and, ultimately, they ended up working against her.

There will be a counterargument within the palace. I mean, I've spoken to lots of people behind the scenes who said she just wasn't easy to work with and we couldn't give her what she wanted. But it does feel like it's a very outdated institution today and they're meant to represent all their public. A monarch is meant to represent all of their subjects I think, frankly, today, a lot of those subjects don't think their monarchy is relevant to them.

[07:10:06]

BERMAN: Right. And they're meant to represent a commonwealth realm made up of a huge number of people of color, which is why these questions about race and racism are an existential problem this morning, I would think, for the royal family.

So, let's hear Harry, if we can, talk about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WINFREY: What was that conversation?

PRINCE HARRY: That conversation I am never going to share. But at the time -- at the time, it was awkward. I was a bit shocked.

WINFREY: Can you tell us what the question was?

PRINCE HARRY: No. I'm not comfortable with sharing that.

WINFREY: Okay.

PRINCE HARRY: But that was right at the beginning, right?

WINFREY: Like, what will the baby look like?

PRINCE HARRY: Yes, what will the kids look like.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: As I said, I mean, I think this gets right to the core of what the royal family is about and what they represent, Max. I mean, who are the universe of people who could even asked that question? I know they wouldn't tell us, but I have to believe people are wondering this morning.

FOSTER: I think you have to assume that it is a member of the family. I don't think you would be speaking in that sense about a member of staff. He was a senior member of the royal family. And if a member of staff said that to him, I'm sure he would take some sort of action. I think it was clearly a member of the family.

You know, there were lot of discussions around at the time about the tone of any future babies' skin. You know, it's not appropriate in any circumstance to talk about that, let alone to the child's father. So this is what I mean about, they're going to struggle for a response today, because you can't deny their experience about what happened. But then they're going to want to, I presume, say that they're not racist.

How do you negotiate that sort of language today? I think it's very difficult situation they're in. I don't think necessarily that Meghan and Harry wanted to put them in that situation. It feels to me as if they just wanted to get it all out after years of feeling repressed.

CAMEROTA: And so will the palace feel compelled to respond? I mean, can they just go silent with this? Will we ever hear from Prince Charles? How would this work?

FOSTER: We're going to have to get a sense from them about how profound they think this is. I mean, I see it as quite profound, but there's a different context here. I'm aware of what's going on in the U.S. media. I think there's a less of a sense of that here. They're more cynical about Meghan in the British media. Meghan took on the British tabloid, so they're genuinely -- they're broadly sympathetic to the palace view, I would say. So let's see how impactful they feel this is.

You've got to remember, it's not being shown in the U.K. until tonight, so I think the bigger response will be amongst Brits tomorrow, frankly. But they're seeing that the drip drab of information coming through right now. So I think they're beginning to form opinions. But the palace is going to have to respond in some kind of way, I think. They had a policy of not giving a running commentary on the Oprah interview, but the allegations are huge and seismic, as John was saying. I don't know how they can avoid it.

BERMAN: We learned, I think, a lot more about Harry's relationship with his father, Charles. Now, some of the comments were specifically about their haggling over the separation agreement between himself, Harry, and the royal family. But more broadly speaking, when a guy, a kid going through a lot of pain, says that his father stopped talking to him, wouldn't take his calls anymore, that's extraordinary.

And when he still says, Harry, that there's a lot of work that needs to be done in this relationship and he expressed extreme disappointment about how Charles, I think, has approached them as a couple, what are we to think about the status of this relationship and where it goes?

FOSTER: Well, it's a funny place, the palace and the royal family. I mean, it's two things, isn't it? It's a family, but it's also a firm. They work together. Also, you have this situation where they've all got their own offices, households, and they become power bases. And when you're working with them, it does feel like an unusual relationship. You've got to make appointments to see your grandmother, for example.

So I don't think we can really imagine -- I think Meghan alluded to this -- what it's really like to be in that family. They're not just celebrities, it's something else, that she's the head of state. But it is a sad story in terms of a father, but it's a really tough story as well, isn't it, in terms of a senior member of the firm, negotiating with you about the terms of your exit and effectively hanging up on you. And, you know, they do talk about putting duty first, and I think that's effectively what Prince Charles was doing in this situation.

People will be sympathetic to the challenge that that presented to Prince Charles, I think, here in the U.K. But to ordinary-thinking people around the world, it feels very -- it feels brutal.

[07:15:00]

BERMAN: All right. Max, we'll let you get back to reporting here. Obviously, I know you have a lot of questions you're trying to get answers to. We'll talk to you again, because we still have so many more questions about this stunning interview. Thanks so much for your reporting this morning.

One of the things that Harry and Meghan have done, shined a light on mental health. And if you or someone you know is having suicidal thoughts, there is help. You can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. For the viewers around the world, the International Association for Suicide Prevention and Defenders worldwide also provide resources.

CAMEROTA: And I just want to say, I think that's a really important angle of this, which is, they're in this rarefied royal world, but it's universal. The feeling of isolation, which everyone's had this year, and mental health challenges is universal. And that's what I think this is sending such resonance and shockwaves.

BERMAN: Yes, and their willingness to talk about it so openly, I think, is also something that has tremendous advantages for people.

Behind this highest ranking Democratic lawmaker in New York now calling on Governor Cuomo to resign, the attorney for one of his accusers joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: A third former Cuomo aide has come forward sharing her story about sexual harassment by the New York governor. [07:20:04]

This follows a different accuser, Charlotte Bennett, speaking out publicly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLOTTE BENNETT, FORMER EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT AND HEALTH POLICY ADVISER TO GOVERNOR CUOMO: He asked me if age difference mattered. He also explained that he was fine with anyone over 22.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how old are you?

BENNETT: 25.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What were you thinking as he's asking you these questions?

BENNETT: I thought, he's trying to sleep with me. The governor is trying to sleep with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Governor Cuomo says he has no plans to resign about all of this, despite calls from some fellow Democrats.

Joining us now is Debra Katz, a civil rights attorney who is representing Ms. Bennett. Debra, great to see you. Thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us.

And so this happened, I believe, over last spring and summer. So why did Charlotte Bennett want to come forward now to talk about it?

DEBRA KATZ, ATTORNEY FOR CHARLOTTE BENNETT: What she said is what prompted her to come forward is to support Lindsey, who came forward in first a tweet and then an article in medium, because the governor's response to those very serious and well-documented allegations was to basically dismiss her with the back of his hand and say, this is not true. And Charlotte knew these allegations were true. She had experienced similar misconduct from the governor and she felt -- she felt a civic responsibility to come forward to support these allegations.

CAMEROTA: As we understand it, at the time that it happened, Charlotte Bennett did everything right. She went to the chief of staff and reported it, she went to, I believe, the special counsel and reported it. They immediately apologized for this. They offered a transfer. In The New York Times, it was reported that she was happy about that transfer. She was happy in her new position and she decided not to insist on an investigation. And so now what? Has she changed her mind about those things?

KATZ: Well, Alisyn, you're mostly right with that. She did do everything right. She did do exactly what the law asks people who have been subjected to sexual harassment to do, which is to report it to higher levels of supervisory authority. And when she did that, they then had a mandatory duty to investigate it, because most complainants ask specifically not to have an investigation, because they're scared of retaliations, and that when you make allegations about the governor becomes really significant because he's the boss of everybody in New York.

So what New York State officials had a legal obligation to do was to assure her that she would not be retaliated against, but to make clear that they had a legal obligation to investigate. It didn't matter that she said, I'm not comfortable with this. They should have said to her and failed to say to her is, we will protect you, we have a legal duty to run this to the ground. This is very important. These allegations involve the governor of the state of New York and we're sorry that we cannot investigate.

The other piece is, we saw a tweet -- I'm sorry, we saw a text that she sent her mother right after the transfer saying, you know, I feel like I was robbed of my career, my job. That is very common for victims of sexual harassment. Rather than deal with the underlying behavior, they get transferred out. So this was not a good solution for Charlotte.

CAMEROTA: The governor said he never knew at the time that he was making anyone uncomfortable. Do you think it's possible that his chief of staff never told him about this?

KATZ: I think that's absurd. So he shows up at work and Charlotte Bennett is no longer there and he says to people, where's Charlotte Bennett, and he's not given an explanation? They had legal duty to ensure that the workplace is (INAUDIBLE), that there's no sexual harassment, no sexually hostile work environment. And the governor, by his own admission says, this is how I treat people, this kind of joking, this kind of banter.

And the executive order that he signed in the law that he signed makes explicit that unwanted comments of the very type that he made constitutes sexual harassment. He says he didn't know he was making anybody uncomfortable. The onus is not on the victim of sexual harassment to put up their hand and say, hey, these skeezy comments that you're making, these sexual comments are making me uncomfortable. The onus is on the official not to engagement in this behavior.

CAMEROTA: So, in terms of the investigation, is Charlotte Bennett or you calling for it to be expanded, to see what the chief of staff and special counsel did?

KATZ: Of course. In any sexual harassment scenario, there are always enablers. There are people who allow the harassment to continue and simply transfer the women out. And we see that here. And we are hearing that there is a pattern with the governor that when people get sexually harassed, they exit from their jobs, whether they get transferred to different agencies or different areas within his administration.

And the people who are doing that transfer are failing -- they're failing the individuals who come forward and they're failing all of New Yorkers. [07:25:05]

They have a legal obligation to take action and they failed to do that here.

CAMEROTA: The governor has said that he is, quote, embarrassed, he deeply apologizes and that he has learned from this. Is it possible that this can be a teachable moment, where he gets to keep his job, doesn't have to resign, and vows to do better?

KATZ: Alisyn, it's not for me to say whether the governor can have a teachable moment. We all can. Everybody is capable of some level of redemption. The issue is, he's a lawyer, he's 62 years old, he's not 100. It's not that he is unaccustomed to the change in social mores. He touted the new law that he signed after the Me Too movement really kicked in saying, New York State will have the most protective law, protecting all victims of sexual harassment, because no one should have to endure this. He knows just how damaging this kind of conduct is.

And yet he abused his power and subjected women who worked for him to this very conduct that he knows, he knows. And he's a lawyer, he signed the law, he heard the testimony about how damaging this is. He has abused his power.

CAMEROTA: And so how is Charlotte Bennett doing now, since coming forward?

KATZ: I think that Charlotte feels somewhat vindicated because these allegations are being taken seriously. It's not simply that the governor can say, I'm really embarrassed, I apologize, I didn't know. As she said during her interview with Nora, the governor has never addressed her by name. An apology is not what you say at a press conference to save yourself politically. An apology is to really talk to the person who you have offended, who you have hurt and make it right. And that's not what the governor is doing here.

CAMEROTA: And would she want that, would she take a call from the governor?

KATZ: I don't want to speak for her, but I think something like that could be meaningful, absolutely.

CAMEROTA: Debra Katz, we really appreciate your time. Thank you very much for all of the information.

KATZ: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: So, President Biden's $1.9 trillion relief bill now heads to the House. Will progressives support the changes? That's next.

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[07:30:00]