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Prince Harry and Meghan Markle Make Stunning Claims in New Interview. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 08, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Meghan describes being ostracized by the palace and the concern within the royal family about her baby's skin color.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: In those months when I was pregnant, all around the same time, so we have in tandem the conversation of you won't be given security, it's not going to be given a title, and also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he is born.

OPRAH WINFREY: There is a conversation, hold up, hold up.

MARKLE: There were several conversations.

WINFREY: There's a conversation with you --

MARKLE: With Harry.

WINFREY: About how dark your baby is going to be?

MARKLE: Potentially and what that would mean or look like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: The duchess also describes feeling so isolated that at one point she had suicidal thoughts.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is the first interview together for the duke and duchess, Harry and Meghan, I like using their human names, since stepping back from their senior roles in the royal family. Harry talks about feeling trapped inside the family, like his brother and father, who at one point, Charles, stopped taking Harry's calls. This begs a response from the palace, questions they have to address. CNN anchor and royal reporter Max Foster live at Windsor Castle. Max, what is the palace saying?

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Nothing. We haven't got anything from them so far. I think they are scrambling to come up with a response, if I'm honest. They didn't get a preview of this, and there was revelation after revelation after revelation, some of them very difficult to watch, John.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: I just didn't want to be alive anymore, and that was very clear and real and frightening constant thought.

FOSTER: Driven to despair by the family she married into and the institution behind it.

MARKLE: We had to go to this event. And I remember him saying, I don't think you can go. And I said, I can't be let alone.

OPRAH WINFREY: Because you were afraid of what you might do to yourself?

FOSTER: Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, opening up to Oprah Winfrey about being singled out, she believes forced out of the royal family for her race, concerns even raised by unnamed royals about the color of her child's skin.

MARKLE: And also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he is born.

WINFREY: What?

MARKLE: And --

WINFREY: Who is having that conversation with you? What?

MARKLE: So --

OPRAH WINFREY: There is a conversation, hold up, hold up.

MARKLE: There were several conversations.

WINFREY: There's a conversation with you --

MARKLE: With Harry.

FOSTER: An even more shocking allegation that she was told her child couldn't be a prince for unstated reasons, not even afforded a security detail.

MARKLE: The idea of our son fought being safe, and also the idea of the first member of color in this family not being titled in the same way that other grandchildren would be.

FOSTER: A barrage of negative press damaging Meghan's mental health, she says the palace did nothing to help her, instead refusing to combat media rumors, including allegations she made her sister-in-law, the Duchess of Cambridge cry, when Meghan says it was the other way around. Harry comparing his experience to his mother's.

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: What I was seeing is history replaying itself. FOSTER: The couple deny claims they blindsided the queen when they

announced their departure, another rumor they believe was peddled by the palace.

PRINCE HARRY: When we were in Canada, I had three conversations with my grandmother and two conversations with my father before he stopped taking my calls, and then said, can you put this all in writing, what your plan is?

FOSTER: Harry says he has a deep respect for his grandmother, the queen, and has spoken to her more in the last year than he has in many years. As for his father.

PRINCE HARRY: I feel really let down because he's been through something similar. He knows what pain feels like, and this is -- and Archie is his grandson.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

[08:05:01]

FOSTER: So who was it discussing with Harry the skin tone of his future babies? We still don't know, but Oprah has just revealed that Harry told her it wasn't the queen or Prince Philip.

CAMEROTA: Really interesting. Max, thank you very much for all the reporting. Obviously, when you get anything developing today, bring it back to us.

Joining us now for analysis on all of this is Diane Clehane. She's the royals editor of best life and author of "Diana, The Secrets of her Style." Also with us, CNN contributor and "Entertainment Tonight" host Nischelle Turner. Great to see both of you ladies. Diane, you have written so much about Diana and studied her, and so I just want to start with you. What echoes of her experience do you hear with Harry and Meghan talking there?

DIANE CLEHANE, ROYALS EDITOR, BEST LIFE: I think it was surprising how much the specter of Diana hung over this interview. And I think there was a lot, it's scarily similar. And I think it's interesting because Harry's big concern was that history was going to repeat itself, when in fact that should have been Alice's concern. This is almost -- I don't want to say play-for-play, but event-for-event. The fact that she went to the palace and did not get help. Diana did the same thing. She felt isolated and alone. Diana did the same thing. She thought about suicide. Diana said that she did attempt suicide five times. So it's incredible that the similarities are so close. And this must have been not only distressing to Meghan but absolutely horrifying to Harry.

BERMAN: Nischelle, Max just brought up Oprah Winfrey is doing an interview this morning where she is elaborating more. If you watch this interview last night, one of the burning questions was, what member of the royal family, who would ask that question to Harry? And I just want to play Oprah Winfrey talking about that a little more this morning. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY: He did not share the identity with me, but he wanted to make sure that I knew, and if I had an opportunity to share it, that it was not his grandmother nor his grandfather were a part of those conversations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So the list is getting narrower, Nischelle. Look, obviously, Harry has got a lot of problems with his father. You are left to wonder, could it have been his father? Really, these are explosive issues that were revealed last night.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely. And in the interview, Harry said it was a close family member, but he refused to go any further than that. So I gained from that, that it was something so personal and someone so close to him that it wounded him really, really deeply. So now to have the queen and Prince Philip cut out of the mix, then it does really make you wonder. And also to hear him speak further about his relationship with his father and his brother, it really makes you wonder. He said he was very disappointed in his father. And that, yes, they are speaking again, but there is a lot of healing there to be done.

And when asked about his relationship with Prince William, he said the relationship is, long pause, space. So that was really telling. I think a lot of the things that they didn't say were even more telling than some of the things that they did say last night, John.

CAMEROTA: How about that, Diane? How do you think that the relationship with his father had deteriorated to the point where Prince Charles wouldn't take his son's phone calls?

CLEHANE: Well, it's absolutely stunning because, a lot of people don't know, Charles was actually closer to Harry before all of this. And now of course his relationship with William has become closer. But I think that the idea that Charles was the integral part of the breakdown of what happened is quite shocking. You have this image of Charles walking Meghan down the aisle, that he was quite fond of her by all appearances. The queen was very fond of Meghan, and apparently still is. But the idea that this was Charles and the breakdown started there during the exit negotiations is quite, quite surprising.

BERMAN: And Nischelle, I mentioned this earlier, it's one thing if this were just a story about broken people. Every one of us is flawed in our own wrong way. But this is about broken people in what is described as a broken institution, and people in an institution that wasn't there for Meghan when she was specifically asking for help, potentially lifesaving help. They, it, they and it turned it back on her in this time of need.

TURNER: You know it's interesting, because we have her them often say that this is a family that puts duty over family in a lot of instances because of the monarchy. But to hear it detailed in that sense, it really is shocking. And I often have been thinking about, could both sides actually be right? So, hey, I don't want to be in this bubble, and let me take my family and do whatever I need to do to make it. They'll say, well, this is who we are as an institution and this is our legacy, so we're going to do this here.

[08:10:02]

But when you hear what they detailed in this interview, you do come away thinking, this is a very antiquated institution, and that you have to also there has to be some empathy and sympathy and some humanization within this institution, the firm, or how they would call it, that lends to when someone says, I need help, hearing that person and giving that help and not thinking that that in any way, shape, or form diminishes the image of the monarchy, that is really hard to wrap your brain around.

And I know that there are probably a lot of people in the U.K. this morning saying this is what we know and defending that. But I have to tell you, I think that the collective last night were saying, who does that? Who are these people that just dismiss that at all?

CAMEROTA: Diane, look, as you well know, there is this whole romantic fantasy that little girls are fed from the beginning of time about becoming a princess and how glamorous and romantic it would be. And then last night to hear the reality of -- I guess we knew that you give up some personal freedom, but I didn't know that you immediately hand over your car keys, your identity, and then are you trapped in the castle. Meghan Markle talked about being out twice in the space of four months, and the firm telling her, your saturated. Your oversaturated in the media. You can't go out right now to lunch with your girlfriend. Why is it that Kate Middleton seems to be able to navigate that, and for Meghan it was soul crushing to the point of suicidal thoughts?

CLEHANE: Well, there is a huge difference. I've said many times over that the British people have this sort of sense of iconic. They mean a great deal to them in a number of ways. An American coming into that family has no idea of what the real sort of story is because they haven't grown up with it.

And interestingly enough, Meghan said last night that one day when she was feeling lonely at home in Nottingham Cottage, she happened on "The Little Mermaid" on television. So she found herself watching it. And she told Oprah that she felt a kinship to the Little Mermaid because she fell in love with a prince and lost her voice. But in the end, she gets it back. So I really thought that was really the only light moment of an absolutely shocking two hours.

But I think she really didn't know in a lot of ways. You can know but you don't know until are you in, which is what she said. And she said she was naive going into it. She also said that she really didn't understand what the job was. So this must have been particularly crushing to someone, not a teenager that didn't have any life experience, but someone like Meghan who has been out in the world and very vocal, an advocate for women's rights, having spoken at the U.N., all those kinds of things that she did. It's unimaginable to think what she thought about and what she felt while she was there with no visible support except from her husband.

CAMEROTA: We have many more questions for you guys, but we want to take moment for this note to our viewers. If you or someone you know is having suicidal thoughts, there is help out there. You can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. And for our viewers around the world, the International Association for Suicide Prevention and Befrienders worldwide also provide those needed resources. Please reach out.

So Prince Harry also claims the royal family cut him off financially. How does that work? We have that and more of the royal family drama.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:21]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGHAN MARKLE, DUCHESS OF SUSSEX: Kate was called "Waity Katie" waiting to marry William. While I imagine that was really hard and I do, I can't picture what that felt like. This is not the same and if a member of this family will comfortably say we've all had to deal with things that are rude. Rude and racist are not the same.

And equally, you've also had a press team that goes on the record to defend you, especially when they know something is not true. And that didn't happen for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: We are back now with Diane Clehane and Nischelle Turner. So that was interesting, Nischelle. "Rude and racist is not the same." I think that's an excellent point and it is also just baffling why the Palace -- they're so powerful, why didn't they step in and tell the press, cut it out? This isn't acceptable?

I mean, the idea that she felt that she couldn't trust the people who were there supposedly to protect her.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I mean, that's a great question: why didn't they? And I think that is something that Meghan has been asking over and over again in a question that led to ultimately Harry saying I have to protect my family and take other steps.

She is right. I mean, we did see those headlines about Kate during the courtship of her and William over all of those years, and you know, there were some things that were said about her.

But ultimately, the coverage of Kate has been glowing in a lot of ways and the coverage of Meghan, I remember one headline still that sticks out to me, because it was such a dagger in the heart saying that Meghan was straight out of Compton, you know, coming into the Royal Family straight out of Compton.

Well, first of all, she's from the Crenshaw district, and I asked the question, why would they write that? Because Crenshaw is actually closer to Beverly Hills than it is to Compton. So, why not say straight out of Beverly Hills if you want to write a headline about that.

Those are the things when she means when she says there is a difference between being rude and racist, and those things can really hit at the heart and start to eat away as you know, she said, they did.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You know, Nischelle, you asked the right question before, which is: who does this? I mean, I think we have to stop looking at this through the prism of some institution or some holier than now, you know, tradition and start to say who are these people asking these offensive questions? Why can they get away with it and how can they not answer for it?

I mean, Diane, the flipside of this, and I am sensitive to the criticism of Harry and Meghan which is that they are criticizing the press. They are criticizing, I guess, the notion of celebrity in a way, yet, here they are with Oprah last night, so how do you explain that?

[08:20:01]

CLEHANE: Right. Well, I think they've always wanted to be in control of the narrative. Everything that they do, they want their side of the story out. So there is a very stark difference between what they experienced when they were at the Palace dealing with the Royal protocol and now.

So, I think it's very, very different, and also American media is reverential towards most celebrity, and they still love the Royals here, as I can honestly tell you.

People here just find it so fascinating, whereas in Britain, I've heard many, many times by several people that I've spoken to is the British media loves to build you so they can tear you down, and that is very, very clear in this sort of up and down relationship that Kate had and in the beginning, everyone was thrilled that Meghan was supposed to be a breath of fresh air, but it didn't take long for them to turn.

But the other interesting thing is during that interview, Harry said this family is afraid -- scared is what he said of the tabloid media because he knows that they need them in order to sort of stay relevant, to get their message out.

So he said -- it was very interesting that he said that there was generations and generations of fear. So does that mean that the tabloid controls the Royal Family because they feared them? It certainly sounds that way.

CAMEROTA: That's really interesting, and Diane, one more question for you because speaking of that and the relationship between the tabloids and the Royal Family, Harry is scared, obviously, because they basically killed his mother. You know, it's hard to mince words about just how hounded she was

until the very last moments, and so he talked about how her mother -- how his mother would be seeing all of this today.

CLEHANE: Right.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: What do you think your mom would say about this stepping back, this decision to step back from the Royal Family? How would she feel about this moment?

PRINCE HARRY, DUKE OF SUSSEX: I think she would feel very angry with how this has panned out, and very sad. But, ultimately, all she'd ever want is for us to be happy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I mean, this is history repeating itself.

CLEHANE: It is. It very much is, and I think that the trauma that Harry suffered obviously went very, very deep when he told ITV in 2019 that every time he sees a flash bulb, he is brought back to that moment. So he has carried this with him.

And I always thought that the protectiveness that he feels towards Meghan, obviously, now we know much more about that, but in a lot of ways, I feel that Harry sort of could not rescue his mother when he was a 12-year-old boy, but he wants now to make sure he can rescue Meghan from the same kind of thing that did, as you said, ultimately cost his mother her life.

BERMAN: In a way, they rescued each other though, and they both made that case last night. That was what was so interesting to me is that both acknowledging how much they need each other there.

Nischelle, can -- will you speak to, what does Meghan Markle represent here? Meghan Markle, American, by the way, American resident now by the way, what do you think she represents in this country?

TURNER: You know, I think that she is in a lot of ways America's Princess. I think that people here in the United States have collectively tried to have her back, to gather around her, hold her up as a woman, as a black woman and as an American just to say, look we have -- is representing this morning, a woman who has found her voice.

I mean, you know, we were celebrating International Women's Day. This is Women's History Month, and I think that we have seen an example that a lot of people are saying "atta girl" for finally being able to exhale when you feel like you have been holding your breath for so long.

So I think that she, you know, will be met with a lot of adoration. Of course, there are going to be the critics out there and no one is above criticism. But again, I think that there is a difference between criticizing in action and coming at it from a place of hate, racism and misogyny which is what she says she suffered so much.

CAMEROTA: Diane, one of the revelations last night, was that, their son, when she was pregnant -- their son, Archie, was not going to be given a title and they were not going to be given security. Why? Can you explain this to us? Why would that baby not be given security?

The Royal Family doesn't want a security issue, an emergency of some kind on their hands? I mean, it was interesting to hear Harry talk about just how much the purse strings are controlled by Prince Charles. I didn't -- I don't think I quite understood that they have no money. He has no connection, he doesn't really -- he has money, I guess, left over by his mom. But they can't rely on the Royal money now and that even security. They were already having to pay for themselves.

CLEHANE: Right. Well, the idea that they were moving out of the U.K. and going originally to Canada and there was that whole discussion about who was going to pay their security costs. But the basic idea is it goes back to several years ago when Charles had said he wants to slim down marquee.

[08:25:03]

CLEHANE: So there are many, many people in the family, Prince Andrew's daughters, Beatrice and Eugenie, they lost their protection. So there is the sense that they are whittling down who in effect gets protection and titles and the like.

But the idea that this is Charles' son, this is the son of Diana, you would think that there would be some kind of provision and sort of different kind of treatment, because he is so close. I mean, he is sixth in line to the throne.

But the idea that these are all decisions that are made by the Palace. The Queen has the power to bestow titles as she did when they got married. So there was a sense she was going to give a title to Archie and then there was a lot of reporting saying that they didn't want that title because they didn't want to burden their son with the same kind of responsibility and fame that goes along with that.

But there is a lost intricate protocol in terms of where people fall in the line of succession as getting a title. I mean, they changed the rules officially in Parliament to allow Princess Charlotte to get a title and also to be in the line of succession ahead of males, which was not the case before.

So this is very antiquated protocol and sort of thought that goes into this. So I can understand why they were extremely upset. It sounds absolutely horrible in the retelling of it when you put it in the context of a family. But I think that in a lot of ways, the Queen, herself, is sort of following protocol and duty where other people may have had more nefarious reasons for accusing them certain things.

BERMAN: Diane, Nischelle, thank you both so much for being with us this morning. Still so many questions.

TURNER: Yes.

BERMAN: I imagine, we will be talking about this for some time.

So President Biden's $1.9 trillion Corona Relief Bill faces a big vote in the House tomorrow. What is the feeling in the Democratic Party about this, this morning? That's next.

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