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Health Experts Worry Significant Number of Americans Will Refuse to Get Coronavirus Vaccine; Republicans Blame Biden Administration Policies for Surge of Immigrants at U.S.-Mexico Border; Interview with Rep. Marc Veasey (D-TX). Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 15, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Unaccompanied migrant children are now in the custody of Border Patrol, many being held longer than legally allowed in facilities that are not equipped for children. The president is ordering FEMA to come in and help care for those children, to help move those children. I want to bring in now CNN White House correspondent John Harwood.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: John, great to see you this morning. Let's talk about this blitz, this quarter-billion dollar ad blitz fighting vaccine hesitancy. What's behind this?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's behind it, John, is that we're about to get to the point where we have enough vaccine, that the issue is not feel scrambling to get appointments, but people not scrambling to get appointments because they have some skepticism of the effectiveness of vaccines. We have already seen this during the rollout, where some people where vaccine supply has been available, even some healthcare workers, nursing home workers, have declined the vaccine. You have got some companies paying their people to get vaccinated.

And what the Biden team is looking at is as they ramp up supply, as the Johnson & Johnson vaccine comes online, we are trying to achieve that herd immunity for the country that will let us back to normal. And so they've got to reach people who have been reluctant to go in that direction of getting a shot in the arm. That includes some Republicans. President Trump was skeptical of some of the science during 2020, and so some Republicans are distrustful of what the Biden administration is now pushing on vaccines. They want to try to overcome that.

There has been concern about some in non-white communities that have -- are mindful of a history of abusive medical research involving non- whites in the United States. And so they're trying to make sure that those people feel comfortable as well. So it's really across the board trying to ramp this up, and they are tailoring different messages for those different constituencies.

HILL: John, you have a sense, if there is one particular area, though, in terms of that hesitancy they are most concerned about? Is it white Republican men, which in this latest polling are showing to be very hesitant, or is it more perhaps the black communities we talked about for so many months leading up to this because of this horrific history of what happened in this country in terms of medical malpractice in many cases?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Erica, I think some of the most recent polling has shown that vaccine hesitancy less than has been expected in those black communities. Some polls have even shown the level of acceptance on par with that of whites.

I think it is Republicans, white Republican who are of particular focus. And we heard from the administration last week a statement, Jen Psaki from the podium on Friday said we recognize that we are not always the best messenger to push science and developments in terms of coronavirus. And so we're going to be looking for other messages. We'll see who they put in these ad campaigns.

BERMAN: It would be great to hear from former President Trump, it really would. He's the guy who wants credit for helping produce the vaccine. Dr. Fauci said it would make a huge difference if he got in the game and --

HARWOOD: We have heard from President George W. Bush already in the advertisement we've already seen from the Ad Council.

BERMAN: I want to ask you now, the Biden administration is fanning out across the country over the next few weeks to sell the coronavirus relief bill. And we also got word this morning that they are putting in the office a new coordinator to get a familiar name, Gene Sperling, to run this. What does that mean? What will he be doing?

HARWOOD: Gene Sperling is a very experienced government official. He headed the National Economic Council under both President Clinton and President Obama. He was also a treasury official under President Obama. So, he knows government through and through over many years. And there are a few things that you've got to do.

First of all, he's got to make sure that the government is pushing out the door the child tax credits that are included in the legislation, the higher SNAP benefits, the Earned Income Tax Credit. He has been intimately involved in the development of the Earned Income Tax Credit over the years.

You've also got new small business assistance that the small administration has got to figure out how to make sure that underserved businesses that were overlooked in some of the previous rounds of assistance, that they get access to it. You've also got $350 billion of state and local government aid. The administration, there was a Democratic provision included in this legislation to make sure states did not just take this money and cut taxes and try to get credit for tax cuts for money that they had gotten from the government. So there is an oversight role there to try to make sure that the money is being used properly according to what the legislation authorizes.

BERMAN: John Harwood, thank you very much for being with us this morning. HARWOOD: You bet.

HILL: Also with us, Dr. Ashish Jha, Dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Dr. Jha, always good to see you. I want to pick up what we just left off with, with John Harwood, this talk about who would be the best messengers.

[08:05:05]

Jen Psaki noting that many people in the administration probably not the best messenger to reach some of those hesitant white Republicans. So who would be?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DIRECTOR, HARVARD GLOBAL HEALTH INSTITUTE: Yes, good morning. Thanks for having me on.

Messengers are incredibly important, as important as the message itself. So, of course, as discussed, I think President Trump would be terrific. He got vaccinated, and I think he should cut his own ad telling people to get vaccinated. I think that would make a big difference.

Other political leaders, religious leaders and civil society leaders, I'd love to see religious leaders who are more conservative, who are going to appeal to the more hesitant crowd, I think I'd love to hear them talk about the value of these vaccines as a way to not just protect yourself but to protect your family and the community and the country.

BERMAN: Look, there was a report in "Axios" this morning that only three-quarters of Congress, members of the House, have been vaccinated. If that's true, that number is way too low, given that they had it available to them, and people need to lead by example and also get the message out.

We want to ask you, both Erica and I are parents of kids who are in school. And so we are both fascinated by what Dr. Fauci said over the week and the fact that the CDC is looking at new data about whether people who are masked, and that's crucial, whether people who are masked can be safe three-feet apart from each other as opposed to the six-feet that had been prescribed and largely adhered at schools around the country. What do you think of this? And what are the implication of that?

JHA: Yes. This is a critical issue. Most of the data so far has suggested that three-feet safe, if everybody is masked up. So that if the critical. And now there is a new study out of Massachusetts that really I think drives this point home, that schools that put in a three-feet rule did just as well, had no more infection than schools had a six-feet rule.

I've always thought that this was a distraction. This was not the most important issue, if our goal was to keep teachers and children safe. The most important issue is mask-wearing, ventilation, testing and vaccinations, especially vaccinating, obviously, teachers and staff. So I love the CDC going back and looking at this. And here's the big deal -- if we don't fix this, if we continue to

adhere to six fee, we're not going to be able to get kid back this spring. I'm not sure we're going to be able to get kids back next year. So we have a problem if we really try to stick with that where there's not really enough scientific basis for doing it.

HILL: It's a great message John and I have talked about a lot, especially as my kids are getting ready to go back full time, which we are really grateful for.

We are looking, though, too, and this is another conversation that Berman and I were having this morning, what we are seeing, for example in Italy and what we're seeing in Europe and this concern about the variants. What do you attribute that surge to? Is it fewer vaccinations? Is it more young people out and about? Do we know, and how much should we look at that as a precursor of what could be coming our way?

JHA: Yes, so, Europe always, throughout this whole pandemic, has tended to lead us by a few weeks, and so we can often look at Europe and go, that's coming. Here's why I think this time is going to be a bit different. So what is happening there is the B117 variant, the U.K. variant, is taking hold and that's causing the spike. That's what we were worried about here. The reason I don't think we're going to get hit as hard is because we are doing so much of a better job on vaccination. The European Union has vaccinated about seven percent of its population. It has gotten one dose. We were at 21 percent. So I think we're going to escape the worst of it largely because we are doing such a good job on vaccinations.

BERMAN: I was looking at data that Alli Hedges, my producer, just sent me, just under 2 million people in Italy, or roughly three percent of the population fully vaccinated as of Saturday. The U.S. is 11 percent fully vaccinated, averaging 2.4 million vaccines a day. So you think the vaccinations put us in a different position around the world. That would be great. It would be great if we're ahead of them for once on good news and not behind.

What about South Africa, which is something different, right? They, who have a variant that's prevalent there that people are very concerned about because they feared that it was more deadly and vaccine resistant, they have seen a drop, a huge drop in cases there, and they're not where we are in vaccines, nor, I think, in terms of measures, restriction in place. So how do you explain the drop in cases there?

JHA: Yes, I don't think we know all of the details. I do think some of this stuff is seasonal. I think a part of the reason we have benefitted from the big drop, it started in January here before vaccines really got going, was that there was a seasonal component to this virus. So that may be a part of what is happening in South Africa. You're right, it's not the vaccinations. They're vaccination numbers are still quite low. I think we'd like to see South Africa, Brazil, other countries really ramp up vaccinations. We've got to get vaccines out to these countries much more.

HILL: I want to touch on that number. How encouraged are you by what we're seeing in terms of the number of shots in arms on a daily basis?

[08:10:05]

JHA: It's terrific. It is terrific. We did 3 million a day over the weekend, 6 million over both days. I think we're going to get to a point where were' going to be doing 3 million a day consistently. We'll have the vaccines for it. I am honing we have the distribution set up for it. And that's why I am so optimistic that every high risk persons who wants a vaccine will have at least their first shot by mid to late April. And that's going to terrific. That's going to make big difference.

BERMAN: Just do the math on this, and these numbers are extraordinary. And if you extrapolate it out over any period of time, you see how we get to 70 percent of the country being vaccinated soon. Dr. Jha, it's terrific news. Thanks for being with us, as always, appreciate it.

JHA: Thank you.

BERMAN: A new surge of migrants are making their way across the southern U.S. border.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You can see that this is a serious operation. There are dozens of migrants, there are still some above the hills there, and it is quickly moving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Ed Lavandera on the scene, an inside look at the border next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Just hours from now, House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy leads a congressional delegation on the tour of the southern border. Republicans blame a new surge of migrants there on President Biden's promise to reverse hardline immigration policies of the Trump administration.

[08:15:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): Empirically, it is entirely. You can't help but notice that the administration changes and there is a surge.

When people think they can get in, they begin sending their unaccompanied child on a train ride across Mexico where she may be kidnapped and trafficked on the hope that they are going to be waded through at the border.

This policy is leading to this surge. That is unmistakable.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: A record number of unaccompanied children, more than 4,200

are in Border Patrol custody this morning.

CNN's Ed Lavandera reports from the border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As the sun sets on the Rio Grande, our boat winds its way through the deep bends of the river that separates Texas from Mexico near the town of Hidalgo.

That's when we stumble across a group of migrants loading into a raft.

Our group eases the tension. A few men appear to lead the raft full of parents and young children to the U.S. side.

LAVANDERA: The Rio Grande Valley has been ground zero of the latest surge of migration, and here you see the operation unfolding right in front of us.

LAVANDERA (voice over): After the first raft crosses the river, the magnitude of this moment reveals itself. Dozens of migrants emerge and walk down to the river's edge.

LAVANDERA: You can see this is a serious operation. There are dozens of migrants, there are still some above the hills there, and it is quickly moving. A handful of guys move people back and forth on these rafts. They have life vests for the migrants.

LAVANDERA (voice over): It is a highly organized system. We'll watch the raft make six trips back and forth. Scenes like this are escalating in the Rio Grande Valley. There is the growing perception among migrants in Central America that the Biden administration is more welcoming, even though many are still being turned away.

CHRIS CABRERA, NATIONAL BORDER PATROL COUNCIL: These are really, really high numbers. I have never seen it this busy in 19 years.

LAVANDERA (voice over): Chris Cabrera is with the National Border Patrol Council, the union that represents Border Patrol agents. He warns the agency's frontline field stations like this massive tent facility are being pushed to the limit with migrants in custody.

CABRERA: We're crowded. We're overcrowded. We don't have anywhere to put people, but we have them in our custody and the system is bogged down and there is no place for us to send them because the next level is not open yet.

LAVANDERA (voice over): This is a rare view of the field station set up about a month ago by the Border Patrol. The tents are used to handle the initial field processing for the tens of thousands of migrants apprehended in the Rio Grande Valley.

There are bathrooms, first-aid care, and migrants are removed from the area by a steady stream of buses.

While some migrants cross illegally, some are allowed to cross legally.

Sandra is overwhelmed as she recounts living in the tent city with her son for the last year on the Mexican side of the border. She worked as a teacher in the camp. She is allowed to wait out her asylum case in the United States.

The 38-year-old mother said she fled Honduras after years of threats from a family member.

LAVANDERA: Then one day, he finally showed up at her house with a gun and started firing into her house and one of her older children and some others tackled the man and prevented him from killing her and that's the reason why she is seeking asylum here.

She says she can't live in Honduras and she would have to find someplace else to live.

LAVANDERA (voice over): That desperation is what we heard from the migrants on the rafts crossing the Rio Grande.

Some tell me they are escaping crime, have lost their homes. The last father on the raft tells me, he's here with his wife and daughter.

They're searching for a new opportunity, he says. Back on the other side of the river, another group waits their turn.

Ed Lavandera, CNN on the Rio Grande.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now is Texas Democratic Congressman Marc Veasey who visited several detention facilities on the southern border back in 2019.

Sir, good to have you with us this morning. In 2019, you called the situation a crisis multiple times on Twitter and talking about what was happening.

When you visited those facilities on the southern border, you said you witnessed deplorable conditions. Based on what we know this morning, more than 4,000 children at this point. There were 2,600 back in 2019. Is this a crisis?

[08:20:01]

REP. MARC VEASEY (D-TX): Obviously, the situation that's happening right now along the border is not good.

When I referred to the situation as a crisis, I was talking about the way that Donald Trump -- and let's remember, too, that he had a sidekick, Stephen Miller, the way that they were trying to make the conditions so deplorable for human beings that were seeking refuge, like some of the people that you heard in Ed's report that were simply trying to flee violence, and that was what was a crisis and what was deplorable. The situation is different now. Again, it's not perfect and there are

some situations down there that need to be fixed. But the Biden administration is doing things like making sure that beds are spaced. That's one of the reasons why there is not as much room as there was in the past because they're trying to create a humane situation to deal with the situation as it stand right now.

HILL: There is concern, though, over the conditions, still, based on our reporting, attorneys for some of these children that our CNN colleagues have spoken with. Children who say they weren't able to shower for at least six days, who have not been able to contact their parents. Those are things that we heard about back in 2019 that raised a lot of alarms for people.

So how concerned are you beyond spacing of beds, in terms of what we are seeing with this large number of children, again, more than 4,000 now?

VEASEY: Yes, as I mentioned, you know, it's not an ideal situation and there are lots of cleanups that still need to take place from the previous administration.

But when you think about the fact that some of these young children were held for six months, I am even told that many were held for over a year before they were reunited with family members and parents.

And now, the Biden administration has cut that down to 30 days. That is big difference.

Obviously, we still have a lot of work to do and ultimately, the answer to this is passing a comprehensive immigration reform which President Biden has laid out, and I want to remind all the CNN viewers out there that Republicans had from January 20th, 2017 when they held the majority in the House, the Senate and they had the presidency until January the 3rd, 2019 and no one out there can name one single piece of immigration legislation that they put on the House floor, the Senate floor to address the situation when they controlled all the levers.

And Joe Biden is going to put -- already has said that this is a priority for him and we are going to address the situation.

HILL: There is, as you know, there is some concern, as I know you know, too, about that comprehensive legislation, based on where we are right now.

I do want to get your take on a couple of things that happened over the weekend, so first, I just want to play what we heard from Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana in talking about what he sees as the issue and what he is linking to the Biden administration. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY: Empirically, it is entirely. You can't help but notice that the administration changes and there is a surge.

This policy is leading to this surge. That is unmistakable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: He is saying it's the policy. Ambassador Roberta Jacobson, of course, the President's coordinator for the southern border basically conceded, that yes, the Biden policies may play a role here.

So based on all of that, look, there is going to be finger pointing anytime, there is going to be a lot of politics involved, but if we can strip some of the politics out here and just look at where we are this morning, does there need to be a more forceful message from the Biden administration to not come across the border right now?

VEASEY: This situation started when Trump was President, and obviously, if you go back a year ago --

HILL: Yes, but it is President Biden who has to deal with it now. So should there be a different message, to your point, you talked about messaging. Does there need to be a better message to deal with what the country is facing right now?

VEASEY: I think what the message needs to be is that we are going to, A, put back together a policy that was working that allowed people to apply for asylum in their homes or in their home countries.

And then in addition to that, we need to really lay out a comprehensive strategy also to address the situation in those countries.

I mean, you heard the woman talk about how she felt that she had to leave Honduras. I have visited Honduras, and it is a very dangerous place.

I remember the U.S. Ambassador telling us, we were at his residence. He said, if you look down there and you look at how beautiful it overlooks the capital city here, it's hard to imagine that this is the most dangerous place in the world.

We see this sort of response to immigration anywhere. If you look at right now in Sahel of Africa and the way how the French are trying to address that to try to curb immigration into that country.

When people feel that their lives are in danger and they need to seek safety for their families. That's what they do. They flee.

[08:25:00]

VEASEY: And so, we need to put together programs that will allow people again to address this in their home countries and then make sure that these countries that are to our south that the situation is much safer for them and that there is more stability in those countries. And that's the way that you really curb immigration, not using people as political pawns in games, because, you know, it's just not right. It's morally wrong.

HILL: And it also very complicated, I think as you are pointing out in this example.

I do want to get you just really quickly before I let go over, we're a little tight on time. Number one, do you think this is a bigger problem than the Biden administration anticipated coming in, that there would be quite as large a surge?

VEASEY: No, I don't think that that is a surprise to anyone. Again, if you look back to last April, you could see the numbers already starting to surge when Trump was still President. So, no -- go ahead, I'm sorry.

HILL: No, I just want to make sure I get clear on this as well. I know again as you visited in 2019, you know that Minority Leader McCarthy is headed down there going with a group of Republicans.

I am curious, do you want to go back and see some of these facilities? Do you have any trip planned to see what the difference is 2021 versus 2019 with your own eyes?

VEASEY: When there is a trip available to go down there, I certainly plan on making it a priority for me to get down there and visit it. I have visited several times over the years, and I just did in 2019. I have been to McAllen and I had been to Brownsville, I have been to El Paso many, many times over the years.

And it is always good for Members of Congress to go down there and just visit with the people that run the detention centers, the Border Patrol agents and just get a sense of what it is really like on the ground and not just again, just the ridiculous talking points that you hear coming from the Republican side.

HILL: We look forward to learning more about that trip as you said, when you are able to go when one opens up. Please keep us posted. Thanks for being with us.

VEASEY: Absolutely. Thanks, Erica.

HILL: Republican Senator Ron Johnson, again, at the center of controversy invoking race in his comments about the Capitol riot -- racist honest, let's be honest. So what he says would have caused him concern during that insurrection on January 6th. It wasn't these people.

But if it had been something else -- that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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