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Moderna Gathering Data on Coronavirus Vaccine Effectiveness in Children; Vaccinations for Coronavirus Continue across U.S.; Journalist Recounts Her Experience with Having the Coronavirus; Two Charged with Assaulting the Capitol Officer Who Later Died. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired March 16, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:05]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm pleading with them for the sake of our nation's health. These should be warning signs for all of us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Italy, France, Spain, and Germany temporarily suspended use of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no documented death that's been linked to a COVID vaccine. We do not want people to panic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two suspects worked to assault U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These men are facing nine counts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a huge development. They actually have photographs showing one of the two defendants holding what is believed to be a chemical substance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. Alisyn off. Erica Hill with me this morning. Great to have you here.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

BERMAN: We do have news happening now. We learned moments ago a new clinical trial launched by Moderna to determine whether its coronavirus vaccine is safe and effective for infants and young children. This is so important. It's important for school. It's important for getting and keeping the country back to normal. The first participants have already been vaccinated. The plan is to ultimately enroll nearly 7,000 children in the U.S. and Canada between the ages of six months and 11-years-old.

HILL: Also this morning, the White House drawing up plans to increase the supply of vaccines to emerging hotspots. The vaccination rate in the U.S. is accelerating, now standing at an average 2.4 million shots reported a day. President Biden, meantime, heading to Pennsylvania a bit later, his first stop on the administration's "Help is Here" tour where he'll promote the benefits of that coronavirus relief bill.

BERMAN: Let's start with the Moderna trial we're just learning about now for children. I want to bring in CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, obviously very important, because when we talk about getting everyone, all adult Americans vaccinated by May 1st or July 1st, we're not even beginning to talk about kids yet. That's why this trial matters so much.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it definitely does. And we know that kids are far less likely to get sick or require hospitalization, but sometimes that happens. And there's still this concern that kids can be a source of spread of the virus. And the vaccines, the data is increasingly showing that these vaccines cannot only help people, keep people from getting sick but also decreasing that spread. So this is going to be really important data to have.

Let me show you specifically what's happening, and I'll preface by saying Pfizer, as you may know, they finished enrollment for people age 12 to 15 in January. So we're going to have some of that data coming up over the next few months. This is the Moderna trial vaccine information on the screen. So between the ages of 6 months to 11 years, close to 7,000 children and 3,000 adolescents up to age 17.

So what is interesting here is what they are looking at basically is, obviously, is this safe in people this young? But also trying to figure out the right dosing. We know that these are, obviously, typically smaller people. But do the children metabolize this vaccine differently in some way? You want to figure out the dosing. So they're going to try and collect this sort of information. What we're hearing from a timetable standpoint is that possibly even by fall you may have an authorized vaccine for high school students. We'll see. Obviously, it depends on how much data they collect and what that data shows. But this is rapidly progressing.

HILL: It is really encouraging. Also just want to help us understand what's happening with the AstraZeneca vaccine, which again, they haven't applied for emergency use authorization even here in the U.S. yet, but this is the dominant vaccine that was being used in Europe. A number of countries there now halting vaccinations over some concerns about blood clots. A very small number, and as I understand it, Sanjay, it hasn't been shown that those clots were directly caused by the vaccine.

GUPTA: Right. No, it absolutely has not been shown that that cause and effect. In fact, if you just look at a general population of people and say what percentage of people develop problems with clotting and then look at the vaccine population, the vaccine population is about the same rate as the normal background level of people developing clotting. So there's really no clear evidence.

People's antennas are up. We're releasing a new vaccine on the world, so you really want to have these very robust safety monitoring. Anybody that has any problem, report it. And that's what's happening here. So of some 17 million vaccines that have been administered, around 30 people have had these blood clotting issues. And the question we're trying to answer is the exact one you're raising, is this just an association that we're finding? Or is there direct cause and effect here?

The World Health Organization has weighed in on this. They are pretty clear on the fact that they don't think that this is really due to the vaccine, these blood clotting problems. They say there's no evidence that the incidents are caused by the vaccine. It's important that vaccination campaigns continue so that we can save lives and stem severe disease from the virus.

[08:05:08]

The European Medical Agency is going to meet on Thursday, and I think that's going to be a really important meeting. We're going to keep an eye on it. Hopefully they will be conclusive in what they say. All evidence points to the fact that this doesn't seem to be related and the vaccination campaigns continue, but we'll see. That's why these meetings happen.

Let me just say quickly, the reason the vaccine has not been authorized in the United States as of yet is because there's an independent body called the Data Monitoring Safety Board that is basically saying, OK, we now have enough data to present to the FDA. We haven't gotten to that point yet. It's not to say that there's concerns about the safety. It's just that not enough data has been collected yet here in this country.

BERMAN: We will follow that very closely. Obviously, this is a major concern in Europe because there are cases that are surging there. And to take one of the main vaccines offline at a very time when cases are increasing is problematic, to say the least. Sanjay, we want your take on one other statistic we saw overnight, and I want to make sure I get this right if you have it in front of you. The Red Cross is reporting that in their blood donations, 20 percent, one out of five?

HILL: I think it was up to 20 or 21 percent.

BERMAN: Twenty one percent of donations, of blood donations, they have found coronavirus antibodies in the blood. And you can see on this chart here how that number has gone up consistently since last July, which means one out of five people donating blood, and these are people who haven't received the vaccine, it turns out it's telling us what, Sanjay, that one out of five people have had the virus?

GUPTA: Yes. Yes, so that's basically what it's saying. So this is important, as you mentioned, unvaccinated people. So they would ask people at the time of their blood donation, have you been vaccinated or not? They looked at the data specifically from people who have not been vaccinated, and 20 percent have these antibodies.

This has long been a question. What percentage of the people have actually been exposed to this virus and have antibodies? We've never had a good answer to that because we still don't have adequate testing. I could talk the entire hour about that whole issue. But nevertheless, so it's always been sort of trying to guess a little bit as to what percentage. And you do hear varying numbers. The CDC has said the number could be as high as 25 percent. IHME says 20 percent. Regardless, the reason this is important is if 20 percent of the country already has antibodies, you add in the 11 percent now that have been vaccinated, what is your overall sort of immunity level? Closer to a third. So that's potentially good news in this quest for herd immunity.

We've got to see how this plays out, but I would look at that study and say, it's interesting. It means probably there's a lot more exposure than people have realized. But we can use that to build towards herd immunity.

HILL: Definitely interesting. It fascinates me there as well, especially how quickly it jumped.

We adore you, as you know, Sanjay Gupta, but it turns out it's not just us. Sometimes you venture beyond the little CNN box, including --

BERMAN: He's a huge star.

HILL: I know, he's enormous.

BERMAN: He's a huge star.

HILL: And he still takes our calls, most of the time.

BERMAN: I know.

HILL: So you went to visit another friend last night. Just want to play a little clip from that.

GUPTA: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: I think there's three types. There are people who have no idea. They don't ever watch television. They just don't know. The second type are people who will actually seek you out because you're on television, which I always thought was kind of strange. I think I'm really good at what I do, but I don't think I'm any better because I'm on television. But somehow that's the perception. And then there is the third type, which is what I think I would be, which is I get that you're on television. I want you thinking of nothing else but me when you're taking care of me.

JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE NIGHT TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, that's why I go to Dr. Phil for all my marriage counseling.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: I will say, though, I did have a brain question, you would be the guy I call. GUPTA: I appreciate that, yes. Keep me on your speed dial. But it was

fun. He asked a funny question, which is how do patients respond? I've been doing this bifurcated career for 20 years now. And you get all sorts of different responses from parents during these last couple of decades. It was a fun interview.

BERMAN: We don't mine if you need to moonlight a little, get some more exposure, we appreciate it. You deserve it. Sanjay, thank you for being with us this morning.

GUPTA: Thank you. Of course.

HILL: Joining us now, CNN political analyst Margaret Talev. She is the managing editor of "Axios." Great to see you, and especially great to see you this morning, Margaret, because I'm just learning a little bit more about what the last several weeks have been like for you on a personal level, and they have been challenging, to put it mildly, because you had coronavirus. So before we get into the politics of what's happening right now in the country, we are just hoping that you can walk us through your experience, because I think it's so telling for so many of us to hear it firsthand.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, thanks, Erica. And it's great to be here. Please forgive my raspy voice. This is the best I've sounded in a month.

[08:10:03]

It was exactly a month ago that I found out that I was positive for coronavirus. It was an accidental discovery. I got a PCR test for work before an interview, and needless to say the interview never happened. I was completely asymptomatic. The symptoms came the next day. My partner, John, was in another state when I found out. I called him. He got tested. We both had it. Thank God my daughter did not.

And after about two days of waiting to see what would happen, I just descended in an absolute and intense sickness. I have viral pneumonia right now, but I've mostly recovered other than that. I had a fever of 102 for two weeks solid. I have a great doctor. I have insurance. I have all of the benefits that you would want to help get care, and even so, I was incredibly sick. I have asthma, so a major preexisting condition, a concern for respiratory illness. I had to get I.V. therapy. I was on antivirals, antibiotics, steroids, vitamins, baby aspirin against clotting. We threw the book at this thing, and I still was a zombie for two weeks and had a very -- even in week three, a very difficult recovery.

And if not for all of the early medical intervention and testing, I'm not sure I'd be here at all. I had a really bad case. And thank God for the support of my work, my family, my friends, my doctors, everything we've learned over the course of the last year. But guess what? I took the precautions. I wear a mask when I go out. We wash our hands. We try to keep social distance. All of that has probably staved off getting it for 11 months. But this thing is not over. And I know we're talking about getting vaccinated, recovery, trying to return to normal. I can't wait for all those things to happen. We're not there yet, and this is still a deadly virus.

BERMAN: I can't tell you how glad I am to see you this morning, Margaret, because I know how tough this has been. And it's a lesson. It just is. And I wonder now when you are covering this, when you hear the CDC Director Rochelle Walensky warn that we've got to keep our guard up for a little while longer, I wonder how that might color your views on this going forward.

TALEV: It's a great point because that's 100 percent been my experience. Look, I bought into this a year ago. I've been very engaged in polling and public research on how people are experiencing coronavirus. So no one had to convince me the vaccine is a great thing, that we all had to take precautions until then. But I did think, OK, we've learned how to deal with this. All you have to do is wear a mask and keep your distance from people and wash your hands and you can pretty much do whatever. And that's really not true.

And guess what, the doctors have been telling us that, but you trick yourself into believing that you understand how this thing works. And the truth is all those things are really important and they reduce your exposure, but they don't remove your exposure.

And my experience is that we are so close now, so close. Many of our parents, friends who have preexisting conditions have been able to get the vaccine. But for folks who can't yet, you'll be able to in a month or two. Just be really careful between now and then. And for folks who don't believe this is real or say, oh, it's just like getting a cold, like, it is for a lot of people. But for me it wasn't. And you don't know. You might not get a very strong case, but you can pass it to someone else and they could have a very bad case.

It also just made me understand how lucky I am and how lucky many people are to have good doctors, medical insurance, companies that allow you to take time off to get better. For so many people, none of that is the experience. To have what I experienced and then underlying health and economic concerns and no idea where your money is going to come from, where your safety net is going to come from. We need regular testing. We need to support our friends and neighbors much more. And I thought I got it. I get it at a whole new level now.

BERMAN: One of the ways we can support our friends and neighbors going forward is to get vaccinated, which is the message now that the administration is aggressively trying to get out there. One of the things that they are finding is that there is hesitancy, particularly among Republican men. Nearly half of Republican men say they don't plan to get the vaccine. I think we have the sound of President Biden talking about the former president. There have been calls to get the former president to join in on the vaccination campaign, and so for he's resisted. He was vaccinated himself, but one scant message in February, but other than that, no promotion of the vaccine. This is what President Biden says about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They say the thing that has more impact than anything Trump would say to the MAGA folks is what the local doctor, what the local preachers, what the local people in the community say.

[08:15:11]

So I urge -- I urge all local docs and ministers and priests to talk about why. Why it's important to get that vaccine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I mean, I do wonder if it may not be essential, but it certainly couldn't hurt to get the former president on board with the message, right?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, and you know, we heard Dr. Fauci say that over the weekend that he thinks it would be very helpful if Trump would do that. I think what you're seeing going on here with President Biden is twofold. I think there is a political aspect to this.

Look at where President Biden is going just this week. A couple of really important swing states that were pivotal in last year's election and it will be pivotal again in midterms and next presidential, places like Pennsylvania and Georgia.

Biden doesn't want to make the messaging about President Trump. How only Trump can save the day. But if you set the politics aside, beyond that, Donald Trump has been a pretty unreliable partner about this. He got the vaccine but he didn't tell anybody for two months. He's allowed a lot of mixed messaging to go on.

And for Republicans in America, particularly Republican men, there is a distrust, a disconnect or just kind of diminishment of an understanding of how vital the vaccine is, not just to your own health but to protecting the people around you, your loved ones in your community and what Biden is looking at is polling that says in addition to Donald Trump, not Republicans do trust their doctors, their preachers and local officials. And so we're seeing like, Francis Collins of NIH and Dr. Fauci do work with evangelical leaders.

We're seeing Biden doing some of this messaging. It looks like he said out loud what some of his internal conversations are which is, we can't count on Trump to be our partner on this. This is not like President Bush or President Clinton coming out and leading a campaign with us. Counting on Donald Trump for your vaccination strategy is a different strategic proposition.

BERMAN: Margaret Talev, rest up. Chicken soup. Get well.

We're so glad to see you. We're so sorry you had to go through this but it's nice to see you coming out the other side. We'll talk to you again very soon.

TALEV: Thanks. It's great to be back.

BERMAN: All right. Two arrests now in the FBI's investigation into the death of a Capitol police officer, but no murder charges. The former deputy director of the FBI joins us next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:21:18]

BERMAN: Developing this morning -- two men arrested for allegedly assaulting a U.S. Capitol police officer, Brian Sicknick during the storming of the Capitol on January 6th. Sicknick died a day later.

Now, neither of the men arrested are charged with his murder.

So joining us now, Andrew McCabe, senior law enforcement analyst, former deputy director of the FBI.

Andy, great to see you.

Look, assaulting a Capitol police officer is a serious crime. If convicted would carry serious jail time. But it is notable they're not charged with murder. Why?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, John, there's no question that the prosecutors and agents and task force members that are investigating all of these crimes desperately want to hold somebody responsible for Officer Sicknick's death. They are not able to do that right now likely because, first, we are not 100 percent sure what the cause of death was. So, we haven't seen a public release anyway of the medical examiner's report. They're probably still waiting for that.

Once we find out what that cause is, they're going to need to determine exactly who was responsible for it. So there's still a lot of work to be done there with a chaotic kind of long-term attack like we saw on January 6th. That's going to be hard to do. What they can do right now is charge these two men, Tanios and Khater, in a strong case of assault which is proved by the video that I'm sure you saw yesterday of those two men essentially committing the assault.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: We look, as you point out, we don't have the information from the medical examiner yet, at least not publicly. When do you think we can expect that? I think that's something a lot of people are looking at trying to better understand what did lead specifically to Officer Sicknick's death. What else -- what else do we know there?

MCCABE: You know, Erica, usually it takes a few weeks. We generally, in the business, would think about at least a month to get a coroner's report or medical examiner's report back on a homicide. If there's more challenging investigative and determinative work to be done like intoxicant levels and all sorts of chemical tests to determine what might have affected the -- or caused the death, those things can make the analysis take a bit longer. The laboratory work takes a longer time and the report needs to be written and released.

So it is getting on the long side for this one. But I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet. I'm sure we'll see a conclusive medical examiner's report at some point in the near future. BERMAN: Look, one of the outstanding questions until yesterday was

when would the people be charged in connection with what happened with Officer Sicknick. Another question open, when will authorities find the person who planted the pipe bombs at the Republican and Democratic national headquarters? We've now seen this surveillance video where at least the novice eye like mine, it's hard to identify who exactly that person is.

But, Andy, you know, give us some insight about why they are having problems finding this person and what fears about what might happen in the interim.

MCCABE: Sure. So the fact that the bureau is essentially crowd sourcing the identification of the bomber by releasing all the video that they have in these very distinctive elements from the video like the brand and style of sneaker that the individual is wearing, things that might jump out to someone who actually knows him, tells us that they don't really have any viable leads about who that individual in the video is right now. If they had those sort of leads they'd be much less likely to reach out to the public for help.

If you know who you are looking for, what you want to do at that point is conduct a covert investigation.

[08:25:04]

You want to conduct extensive physical surveillance. You want to maybe send informant informants or undercover agents to bump up against that person. You want to collect as much information and evidence about not just what they did but what they might be doing in the future and who else they might be working with before you do something overt like an arrest and bring someone to court.

So, the fact they are so -- they are so -- making so many public appeals in an effort to identify this person tells us that they probably don't have a lot of very viable leads at this point. This is a process that could take some time but I think we can look historically to see that they are going to figure out who this is. There's not a doubt in my mind that someone who knows this person, some piece of physical evidence, something is going to trip somebody's recollection and we're going to find out who that man is.

HILL: We'll be watching for that. Andrew McCabe, always great to have you with us. Appreciate it. Thank you.

MCCABE: Thanks.

HILL: President Biden promising to reverse the Trump administration's hard-line immigration policies. But is that promise backfiring? We're going to take a closer look, next.

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