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Florida Governor's Pandemic Response Getting Second Look; Rep. Raul Ruiz (D-CA) Discusses Gov. Newsom's Effort To Combat Recall; Report Links Conspiracy Theories And Misinformation To Vaccine Hesitancy. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 17, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA (via Cisco Webex): Know that there have been tens of millions of doses of the U.K. AstraZeneca vaccine that have been administered.

We know that some people have suffered blood clots following that vaccine, but blood clots are fairly common. I mean, while there are at least 600,000, for example, people who suffer blood clots every year in the United States, it happens in roughly one per thousand people.

This vaccine doesn't prevent blood clots, so the question is does it cause it? It's easy enough to answer that question. Just look at the number of people who have been vaccinated versus unvaccinated to see whether there's an increased incidence of blood clots in the vaccinated group.

We need those data from Europe. Now, the European Medicines Agency is meeting today. Presumably, they will come out with a statement tomorrow where hopefully, we can see those data. We need to know those data.

But in answer to your question could that influence the way we perceive vaccines in general, it might. I hope not. I mean, we currently aren't giving the U.K. AstraZeneca vaccine here so hopefully, it doesn't.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, Doctor, you're at one of the world's greatest children's hospital, CHOP in Philadelphia, so I know you know -- in addition to being on the FDA advisory committee -- Moderna now beginning trials with kids to see children -- fairly young children -- how the Moderna vaccine works with them.

The question that parents around the country have -- you know, what are the chances that our kids will get vaccinated -- a dose of the vaccine before school starts in the fall? Your thoughts?

OFFIT: Well, certainly, the studies have been done down to 12 years of age are fully recruited, so I think it is possible that we could have vaccines for children down to that age by late summer. In terms of down to six years of age or younger, I would be surprised if we had vaccines available by the end of the year -- more likely, early next year.

But while the studies are not the same size as, say, the efficacy trials because children don't get enough -- enough children don't get sick that would make that doable. You'd have to do hundreds of thousands of children, really, to do an efficacy trial. So you'll do 6,000-7,000 children and I think that's perfectly doable and can have those data by the summer.

BERMAN: Good news.

All right, Paul Offit. Thank you so much for being with us this morning, as always.

OFFIT: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis taking a victory lap for his handling of the pandemic. Do the numbers bear it out? We have a live report, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:36:27]

BERMAN: So how has Florida fared in this pandemic? Some experts said because of the loose restrictions it would do quite badly, but what's the reality? Governor DeSantis is a rising star in the Republican Party. He's taking a victory lap because of the performance.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more from St. Petersburg.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: If you look what's happening in South Florida right now -- I mean, this place is booming. It would not be booming if it was shut down.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis is standing unabashedly tall.

DESANTIS: Los Angeles isn't booming. New York City's not booming. It's booming here because you can live like a human being.

ZELENY (voice-over): A year after the pandemic began, Florida is not only back in business, it's been in business. And the governor's gamble to take a laissez-fare approach to coronavirus appears to be paying off, at least politically, at least for now.

Florida ranks about in the middle of all states on coronavirus metrics. More than 32,000 people have died of COVID-19 and the state's per capita death rate ranks 24th. New York is far worse and California only slightly better despite stringent lockdowns.

DESANTIS: While so many other states kept locking people down over these many months, Florida lifted people up.

ZELENY (voice-over): DeSantis is standing out among governors on the front lines of the coronavirus fight, a new measure for politicians of all stripes.

He is not facing a potential recall like California Gov. Gavin Newsom, under investigation; like New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo; or being second- guessed for lifting the statewide mask mandate, like Texas Gov. Greg Abbott. DeSantis refused to implement one of those in the first place.

And Florida's unemployment rate is 4.8 percent, compared to 6.8 in Texas, 8.8 in New York, and nine in California.

TOM GOLDEN, FLORIDA BUSINESS OWNER: When he went into office I wasn't sure what to expect. But he didn't do anything to hurt me as a business owner or me as a Floridian, so fine with me.

ZELENY (voice-over): Tom Golden didn't have much of an opinion on DeSantis a year ago, but with his St. Petersburg bar and restaurant not only surviving but thriving, he credits the governor.

Even as a new test for Florida is looming with spring breakers crowding beaches, so far, the state has weathered the pandemic stronger than most experts expected.

ZELENY (on camera): Is it is the disaster that some people predicted it would have been?

JASON SALEMI, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA: No. Again, I think everything deserves context. What I'd love to ask about Florida is if we had done things differently in Florida, what would it have looked like?

ZELENY (voice-over): Jason Salemi, an epidemiologist at the University of South Florida, said comparing one state to another is complicated -- with Florida's humidity, for example, and New York City's density. And local ordinances on masks and the size of gatherings have also played a role. Now, DeSantis has outraged many city and county officials by trying to take away their authority to put such rules in place.

Throughout the pandemic it's that defiant and combative DeSantis --

DESANTIS: We've succeeded and I think that people just don't want to recognize it.

ZELENY (voice-over): -- who has become a darling of many Republicans.

He declines most interview requests, appearing only on propaganda programs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please come back soon.

DESANTIS: We will -- thank you.

ZELENY (voice-over): Charlie Crist, a Florida congressman and former governor, is among the Democrats thinking about challenging DeSantis for reelection next year.

ZELENY (on camera): In hindsight, do you think he deserves any credit for what he did?

REP. CHARLIE CRIST (D-FL): Like I said, it's too early to tell. Thirty-three thousand of my fellow Floridians are dead. Does he deserve credit for that, probably not. But could it have been better, maybe so.

[07:40:07]

ZELENY (voice-over): Crist and other Florida Democrats are calling for a Justice Department investigation into whether DeSantis gave preference to donors after invitation-only vaccination clinics were set up in at least two upscale communities.

CRIST: Was there preference given to certain Caucasian, wealthy, Republican communities in my state because it certainly looks like it.

ZELENY (voice-over): A spokesman for the governor called the accusation ridiculous and has dismissed critics who have accused him of mischaracterizing COVID data.

DeSantis campaigned and has governed in the mold of Donald Trump. Now, he's seen by many grassroots conservatives as a potential 2024 presidential candidate.

DESANTIS: We are an oasis of freedom in a nation that's suffering.

ZELENY (voice-over): His future, of course, depends on the outcome of the rest of the pandemic, but it's clear he hopes to make that his new calling card.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: Now, DeSantis is the nation's youngest governor at 42 years old. All eyes are on him and his decisions.

Of course, the final chapter of the pandemic has not yet been written. There are still COVID cases here in Florida, of course, and across the country. But no doubt, his decisions are getting a second look and his standing is stronger than other governors across the country.

But, Erica, it is clear so many factors go into how one state is compared to another -- like the humidity, for example, here in Florida. But his decision to open wide, he is standing behind that and celebrating it -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Jeff Zeleny, great reporting, as always. Appreciate it. Thank you.

What you just saw there in Jeff's report, Gov. DeSantis touting his response in Florida.

And as Jeff mentioned, California Gov. Gavin Newsom is actually facing a potential recall, in part due to his handling of the pandemic. Newsom says he is concerned about the effort.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D), CALIFORNIA: Am I worried about it? Of course, I'm worried about it. The nature of these things -- the up or down question -- the zero-sum nature of the question is challenging and it's vexing. And so, we're taking it seriously. I have to do my job every single day but I'm going to fight this thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Raul Ruiz of California. Always good to have you with us.

You know, in terms of that recall, Gov. Newsom was also asked about it and the fact that it's been gaining steam during the pandemic. Here was his response to my colleague Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWSOM: You have people that are part of the lead coalition that started this petition that are avid Proud Boys members. They're part of the three percenters -- the right-wing militia group. They are supporters of QAnon conspiracy theorists and white supremacist groups. That's not just -- that's factual. And so at the end of the day, that's the origins of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: That's the governor talking about the origins of this recall. But we can't ignore the fact that it has gained steam during the pandemic and there are now more than -- or about two million Californians who've signed on.

Is the governor being overly dismissive of constituents who are not happy with his leadership?

REP. RAUL RUIZ (D-CA): No. You know, I don't think he's overly dismissive. He's done a great job handling the pandemic.

You just had Gov. DeSantis on and talked about Florida. You cannot -- comparing California and Florida is like comparing apples to oranges. They're two completely different states. Not only is there more humidity in Florida but also the density in California is greater and the population is greater. You also have to consider the prevalence of the different variants and the different viruses in both states.

So given that high-risk factor of California, Gov. Newsom has done an incredible job. And given the lower risk factors in Florida, Gov. DeSantis could have done a better job and saved more lives. So I credit Gov. Newsom for his early decisive decisions in saving millions of lives.

And yes, people are fatigued. They want to go back to a sense of normalcy. And now, California is moving in that right direction because people are getting vaccinated and he's leading the charge in making sure that there's equity in vaccinating the highest-risk communities. HILL: In terms of -- you know, let's pick up on that in terms of vaccinations because you're also a medical doctor. You have been doing vaccinations, I think at a local Rite Aid.

There has been much made of the vaccine hesitancy and early on those were conversations about communities of colors -- specifically, Black communities based on the medical history and the atrocities in this country. But lately, the talk is about Republicans -- specifically, Republican men. Former President Trump actually coming out and saying that it is safe and it is effective last night.

Meantime, we have President Biden weighing in as well. I just want to play a little bit of what he had to say about vaccinations -- which we may not have. But, President Biden talking about -- he was asked about the politics when it comes to vaccinations and he said -- oh, I think we now have that. Let's play that for you.

[07:45:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA," "THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS": How do you get the politics out of this vaccine talk?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I, honest to God, thought we had it out. I, honest to God, thought that once we guaranteed we had enough vaccine for everybody, things would start to calm down. Well, they have calmed down a great deal.

But I just don't understand this sort of macho thing about I'm not going to get the vaccine. I have a right as an American -- my freedom to not do it. Well, why don't you be a patriot and protect other people?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: How concerning is some of this hesitancy for you?

RUIZ: You know, it is concerning that there are people who because of political reasons don't want to get the vaccine. And, yes, there are reasons why the African-American community, Hispanics, Native Americans, given their history with the medical establishment, may be concerned.

But the greatest factor in those communities is not whether or not they want the vaccine. It's the systemic barriers that exist where you have very few doctors, very few clinics, and you have decreased resources, so they're not getting the vaccine.

Hell, I was just in the hardest-hit communities in my own district administering vaccines myself. And in one hour we were able to get 700 people with President Biden's federal retail pharmacy programs in the community. And with Gov. Newsom's attention to underserved areas we were able to inoculate 577 with Eisenhower Health in a very under- resourced community senior center in the city of Coachella. HILL: So you are addressing it on that front. But again, just in

terms of the hesitancy among Republicans, how is that being address. Is it getting enough attention because the more people vaccinated, obviously, the more it benefits everyone?

RUIZ: It does, and we do need to reach out to everybody because it doesn't matter if they're Republican or Democrat -- Democratic. It's all about protecting them and their -- and their families.

And I think that President Trump being more forceful and also our ability to combat misinformation through the QAnon and social media and other things are going to be very important.

HILL: Right.

RUIZ: Ultimately, when people are going to get vaccinated they protect their families and themselves and they will come around.

HILL: And before I let you go I do want to start a little rapid-fire this morning -- tight on time.

When it comes to immigration, President Biden saying very clearly in an interview don't come here to migrants. Is that enough?

RUIZ: You know, no, that's not enough. I mean, one is it's very important that people realize that we're in the middle of a pandemic and that it's not safe for them, especially with the cartels and the coyotes that are taking advantage of them and re-traumatizing them during the journey.

But that's why we need the U.S. Citizenship Act so that we can address the root causes of the problems so they don't need to leave and they can stay where they are.

This week, we're going to pass the Dream and Promise Act to give a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers, and we're going to pass the Farm Workforce Modernization Act, which are two great solutions to be giving people peace of mind, help our economy, stabilize our food supply chain, and help the Dreamers who are nurses, doctors, job creators during this pandemic to really give and serve the -- everybody in our country.

HILL: We're going to have to leave it there. We'll be following those efforts later this week seeing how those play out.

Representative Raul Ruiz, appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.

RUIZ: Thank you.

HILL: Nearly half of Republican voters say they don't plan to get vaccinated. So how much of that hesitancy is due to, as we were just talking about, vaccine misinformation? We have an eye-opening new report, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [07:53:06]

HILL: It's time for CNN Business Now.

President Biden on the road selling the country on the benefits of his rescue plan for everyday Americans. What will that huge relief package, though, mean for the broader economy.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans has more for us this morning. Good morning.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "EARLY START": Good morning. Nice to see, Erica.

You know, President Biden was in Pennsylvania yesterday. He's on this "Help is Here" tour, trying to show people the government can work for you.

Erica, this rescue is just so big. More economists now are forecasting an economic boom later this year. Morgan Stanley sees seven percent growth; Goldman Sachs, eight percent -- and that's big. That's faster than China and the largest U.S. expansion in generations bouncing back from the COVID crash.

Thousands of dollars are now going to low-income and middle-income families, stimulus checks, extended jobless aid, larger child tax credits. Vaccine progress is part of those optimistic calculations.

There's also enormous pent-up demand when the economy starts opening up, from eating at restaurants to movies to traveling.

But as the economy recovers could it overheat, sparking inflation? That means higher prices and less purchasing power for consumers and companies. A recent survey of portfolio managers cites inflation as the top risk, ahead of COVID. But Treasury Sec. Janet Yellen has said rising prices, if they happen, would be temporary.

The Fed chief, Jerome Powell, has also downplayed inflation concerns and we expect he will again today when the central bank finishes its policy meeting.

Powell is more concerned about jobs and with good reason. The job market is still in a deep hole, down 9.5 million jobs in this pandemic. That means the central bank is in no rush to end its bond purchases, let alone start raising interest rates quickly, which that's what you would expect in an overheating economy.

And, John, the other big storyline here is when will this administration start talking about raising corporate taxes. A lot of buzz in the business world about whether Joe Biden and the Democrats will be able to roll back those very generous 2017 corporate tax cuts all the way to 21 percent. Will they jack that up a little bit? We'll have to wait and see.

[07:55:05]

BERMAN: Maybe soon.

All right, Christine Romans. Thank you very much.

New overnight, former President Trump, after secretly receiving a vaccine in January, just now finally expressed public support for it -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I would recommend it and I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it -- and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly. But, you know, again, we have our freedoms and we have to live by that and I agree with that also. But it's a great vaccine, it's a safe vaccine, and it's something that works.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining me now is former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman. He co-authorized a report titled "Viral disinformation of the COVID vaccine and the road to reconciliation." Congressman, always a pleasure to have you on.

The president, in the clearest language he's used yet, supports the vaccine while acknowledging that many people who follow him don't want to get it. How significant is this?

DENVER RIGGLEMAN (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, STRATEGIST, NETWORK CONTAGION RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Well, it is significant but it took long enough.

My text messages blew up last night and this morning with people talking about this, John. And what they're saying is it might not matter that much because a lot of this is baked in. It's almost become institutional, this distrust of the government.

So as far as the anti-vax things that you're still seeing out there, John, I'm -- I still get Facebook messages and I think Facebook is where it's most viral with the anti-vax conspiracy theories almost every day.

So I wonder at this time if it's a little too late, what President Trump said. Because I think right now -- again, I think this distrust and this anti-vax ridiculousness is baked in.

BERMAN: So you've been looking into this and you co-author a report on the rise of misinformation and conspiracy theories surrounding the COVID vaccine. How does it connect with the larger political environment that we're living in?

RIGGLEMAN: It's tribalism and it seems to me that you have to pick one side or the other. And I had somebody tell me the other day, John -- they said listen, people are now thinking do I got to pick our crazy over their crazy. And that's the kind of things that we're looking at right now as a government or maybe some of the missteps from government. And there's a kernel of truth to some of these people who go a little bit crazy on conspiracy theories.

If you have this sort of disjointed effort to deal with the COVID vaccine or to deal with the economy, people automatically want to reach for things based on the fact that they want to control their lives and have some kind of answer to what's going on with them.

So the issue that we have, again, with anti-vaxxing -- you saw Dodger Stadium -- we just saw an explosion of this and it's continuing. It's actually advancing. It's not retracting in any way and that's the fear we have when we write these reports that's based on data. And again, seeing this rehash of the old new world order conspiracies or COVID 1984 is really disturbing.

BERMAN: It is disturbing.

Congressman, I want to go back a little bit to this memorable moment of the 2020 post-election nightmare. You're going to remember this comment -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: The company counting our vote -- with control over our vote is owned by two Venezuelans who are allies of Chavez or present allies of Maduro, with a company whose chairman is a close associate and business partner of George Soros.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: OK, madness there.

So yesterday, the U.S. Intelligence Community released a major report detailing how Russia attempted to damage President Biden's candidacy by engaging in a huge disinformation campaign, in part, by utilizing President Trump's allies.

And the DOJ and DHS just released this companion report specifically saying those claims made by Rudy Giuliani were, quote, "not credible."

Your takeaway?

RIGGLEMAN: Well, of course, they're not credible. It is -- it's just randomized crap that Giuliani was throwing out to try to influence votes or to spread types of disinformation.

But we do know there is Russian participation in disinformation and it's not something that's hard to do. John, you can make personas -- you can do those type of things -- but that is really not that big of a deal.

And what you have is you have these Russian propaganda peddlers where they don't even understand where this information is coming from. It's a lack of research on their part but it's also a willing participation in trying to win, trying to grift, trying to use these conspiracies to make money. This is about follow the money.

And, you know, it's funny. You talked about anti-vax also. This sort of rolls into this entire disinformation scenario.

The only issue that I had after my vaccination is I had this overwhelming desire to buy Microsoft products, right -- that's it, right? And you know, even saying that as a joke -- because Bill Gates is part of this, right, anti-vax -- what Rudy Giuliani said about Venezuela Chavez, which could have been some Russian disinformation sort of propaganda or personas -- all this stuff is wrapped into distrust. It's wrapped into the simple fact that people aren't trusting what's happening.

But again, it doesn't -- it doesn't take away their ignorance. It doesn't take away the danger of it.

But at some point, we have to have a group of people that are willing to state facts without regard to party because crazy isn't party- specific. You know, the far-right might have a 'hold my beer' moment right now but it's not party-specific.