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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Biden Admin Facing Surge of Unaccompanied Children at Border; Interview with White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki; CDC Director: We are at a Fork in the Road, Could Have Another Avoidable Surge. Aired 4-4:30p ET

Aired March 22, 2021 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin today with the national lead. A humanitarian crisis in this country growing more severe by the minute as thousands of migrant children without parents or guardians are overwhelming facilities at the U.S.-Mexico border. As a new administration struggles to explain how it is going to better handle this influx humanely while also discouraging future migrants.

These photos released today by Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar's office show conditions inside one of those border control facilities in Donna, Texas, over the weekend showing what appears to be mostly teenagers crammed together, wrapped in Mylar blankets, not all that different from heartbreaking images we saw during the Trump years or for that matter during a similar crisis when Barack Obama was president in 2014.

Today, we saw this rare look inside these facilities since the Biden administration has not granted a news media access to the facilities citing COVID restrictions, despite the president's promise in his inaugural distress to always level with you.

Blocking access to the news media is not leveling with the American people, Mr. President.

Now, politicians and some in the news media often frame this problem superficially, but the reason for the influx of migrants -- well, they're complicated. Some of the exodus from Central America is because of poverty and crime and natural disasters there and would have happened whomever was president. After all, there was a similar spike in 2019 under President Trump despite his draconian policies, and the numbers of arrests at the border began rising in 2020 after that precipitous decline due to the pandemic, prompting border closures.

But it is also true, experts say, that some of this crisis is because President Biden has reversed Trump-era policies which had previously kept migrants out and stranded in Mexico, creating the bottleneck that the system is now dealing with. Now, bear in mind, that approach did not stop the crisis of unaccompanied minors. It just made it someone else's problem. Some migrants are saying they are coming specifically because Biden's

policies are more humane or less harsh. Children, for example, are not being snatched from their parents and separated as a matter of policy as happened under Trump.

Either way, the challenge for the Biden administration, which vowed to treat these migrants humanely, is that the resources still do not appear to be there to back up that promise, at least right now as CNN's Kaitlan Collins worth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Biden administration is now scrambling to control the biggest border surge in two decades.

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It is taking time, and it is difficult because the entire system was dismantled by the prior administration.

COLLINS: President Biden's homeland security secretary defending their response as Biden says he's aware of the conditions inside crowded Border Patrol facilities.

JOSEPH R. BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know what's going on at those facilities.

COLLINS: The president has no trips to the border planned but sent a top immigration official to meet with Mexican leaders today about stemming the surge of migrants.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What we are conveying from our end is that the border is not open.

COLLINS: For weeks, the White House has declined to call it a crisis, but now officials are explicitly saying it isn't one.

PSAKI: Children presenting at our border who are fleeing violence, who are fleeing prosecution, who are fleeing terrible situations is not a crisis.

COLLINS: Almost 4,900 unaccompanied migrant children are now being held in Border Patrol facilities with over 800 there for more than ten days, far longer than the 72 hours that the law allows. Secretary Mayorkas visited the border this weekend but didn't take reporters were him as the administration continues to deny access to the facilities.

PSAKI: We're working on independent press coverage. I certainly hope to have an update for you very soon, but I can't give you a deadline on that.

COLLINS: Instead, reporters have been forced to rely on lawmakers. Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar released these pictures showing unaccompanied migrant children sleeping on floors in a crowded Border Patrol facility in Texas. The backlash has been bipartisan. Democratic Arizona Senator Kyrsten

Sinema and GOP Senator John Cornyn both urged Biden today to use his full authorities to effectively respond and says current facilities are insufficient, and President Trump who separated migrant children from their parents while he was in office also criticized Biden's policies today.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: People are just pouring into our country and they will destroy our country. They will destroy our country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on camera): And, Jake, just to give you a sense of how much the administration is being pressed on this. The vice president is in Florida right now to talk about vaccines and the ongoing pandemic, but she was asked by reporters about whether she plans to visit the border. She said not right now, but she believes she will in the future and, again, said that this is, quote, a challenging situation left to them by the previous administration.

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TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thanks so much.

CNN's Rosa Flores is live for us outside the Border Patrol facility in Donna, Texas.

And, Rosa, you're hearing from someone who is inside this facility?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I've talked to a woman who said that she was processed inside the facility and she was dropped off by Border Patrol at a nearby bus station.

Here's how she described it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: How many people were in there?

(SPEAKING SPANISH)

FLORES: Two hundred and fifty.

(SPEAKING SPANISH)

FLORES: So in a big large room she says that there were 200, 250 people. The men are separated from the women. She was in the area where women were with children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now, CNN's repeated requests to gain access to the facility that you see behind me have been denied. Information instead that we're getting here is being filtered by

tweets, press releases and now photographs released by U.S. Congressman Henry Cuellar showing some of those overcrowded conditions.

But let me tell you something. This is not the first time that we hear about the overcrowded conditions. More than a week ago, attorneys representing children inside the facility that you see behind me blew the whistle, telling CNN that the capacity of the facility is about 1,000 and at the time it was housing about 2,000.

Now take a look behind me. The facility is being expanded. There's a full-fledged expansion. We've asked Customs and Border Protection about this, we have not heard back.

But here's what we do know. About 4,900 children are in Customs and Border Protection custody. More than 800 of those for more than ten days. That is way above the 72-hour legal limit and another 10,500 are in HHS custody,

So, Jake, regardless of what the administration wants to call it a cries or a challenge, what we're seeing here on the ground, we'd like to see transparency, access for media so that we can get an objective eye inside these facilities -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Rosa Flores live outside the border facility in Texas, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki.

Jen, thanks for joining us today.

Democratic Congressman Henry Cuellar released these images, I'm sure you've seen them, of a migrant overflow facility in Donna, Texas, over the weekend.

Does the president believe that these conditions are acceptable?

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: No, he doesn't, and that's why he wants to move children as quickly as possible out of the Border Patrol facilities. They are not meant for children and that's why he wants to open more shelters. He wants to increase and expedite processing at the border and this is an issue he's focused on every single day.

TAPPER: I know the administration is trying to speed up processing at the border, as you just noted. But, of course, that takes time, that takes resources. Right now, documents from your own Customs and Border Protections show that some children have been in custody for more than ten days. The law obviously says 72 hours is the limit, as you just heard from Rosa.

So what are you doing right now to fix this? Is President Biden perhaps going to ask Congress for emergency funding to help alleviate the conditions there? PSAKI: Well, Jake, I'm asked our experts about this. It's less an

issue of funding and more an issue of needing more facilities and needing to expedite the processing.

So, you've seen the -- announced the opening of new facilities. We'll announce the opening of more in the coming days and weeks, places where kids can have access to health care, can have access to educational resources, even legal resources. That's one step, but also expediting processing at the border.

A lot of these kids, some of these kids, I should say, have phone numbers in their pockets. The president wants those phone calls to be made to expedite that quickly so that we can get them to safe homes. Those are two of the steps we're taking. A third one let me just note we're restarting the program that allows Central American minors program, that allows kids to apply while they are still in country so they don't make the journey at all. That was something that was ended under President Trump and we are restarting that program.

TAPPER: After Homeland Secretary Mayorkas repeated yesterday that the southern border is closed, "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board, obviously a very conservative board. But they wrote this piece titled, "The U.S. made border crisis".

And they write, quote, Mr. Mayorkas is finally trying to send a message that the migrants should not flood the border, but the Biden administration isn't changing the policy incentives that encourage them to arrive. It has exempted children who set foot in the U.S., so parents send their children to enter and they then stay with relatives, unquote.

Now, look, it's obviously a complicated issue. We saw spikes during the Trump years as well, 2019 especially. This latest influx began under the previous administration and obviously, there's crime and there's poverty and there are natural disasters causing this influx.

But in addition to that, there is this change of policy, this more humane way to treat these migrants.

Do you accept the degree to which that that change -- I mean, you're balancing two competing priorities here. You want to be humane. You don't want to be ripping kids from their parents.

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But at the same time that humanity might serve as beckoning for some of these migrants. Do you accept that?

PSAKI: Look, Jake. I think we think there's a lot of factors. And sure, this president I think is perceived as more humane. We'll take that.

But I also think -- you noted a lot of these. There were two hurricanes. People are fleeing really challenging economic conditions, crime, poverty, smugglers are encouraging kids and families to take these journeys. We know we're working against a lot of headwinds here and there's more

work we have to do to keep reiterating this is not the time to come. This is not a safe journey to make and that people are being turned away at the border.

And we're doing a lot in countries through our embassies with radio ads and Facebook ads and social media to convey that message and there's also a trip that is happening right now with some of our senior officials to some of these countries to have discussions as well.

So we're using a lot of levers, but we also understand there's a lot of headwinds that we're working against here.

TAPPER: And, just quickly, I -- I remember during the Obama years, then DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson flying down to the Northern Triangle countries saying, don't come, making a big high-profile announcement, do not come. We're not going to let people in.

Does Secretary Mayorkas plan on doing something like that?

PSAKI: I think there's no question we'll have senior officials down in the border, or I should -- not just the border, I should say, in these countries as you conveyed and high-level officials I expect down in these countries having negotiations and discussions. We need to have a diplomatic partnership to address these issues.

We also need funding to address the root causes. That's something historically, Jake, as you know, that Democrats and Republicans, Senator Lindsey Graham even have worked with then Vice President Biden on to get funding. We proposed that in the immigration bill and we're hopeful that we can move forward in getting some funding to address the root causes as well.

TAPPER: Jen, President Biden and Vice President Harris and other high profile surrogates are traveling again this week to promote the coronavirus relief law which included $1,400 checks for low and middle income Americans. We know some progressive Democrats have pushed for recurring payments, not just a one-time payment of $1,400 but more and there's an idea of a fourth round of stimulus checks, making headlines in local and some national outlets.

Is the White House considering something like that, a fourth stimulus?

PSAKI: Well, we're obviously going to look at the economic data and what the needs are and what the president is focused on now is figuring what's next as part of his Build Back Better agenda. It's not secret that's going to be about jobs. He's having policy discussions through the course of the next several days and weeks and I expect he'll have more to convey on what's next soon.

TAPPER: This afternoon, Vice President Harris visited a vaccination center in Jacksonville. And today, we learned that AstraZeneca plans to apply for emergency use authorization for its vaccine next month.

Infectious disease expert, Dr. Celine Gounder, says by the time the AstraZeneca vaccine is available in the U.S., there will already be enough supply to vaccinate every American already so that the Biden administration should donate its entire AstraZeneca supply to help with the worldwide effort.

Are you talking about that at all? Do you agree with that analysis?

PSAKI: Well, as you noted, it hasn't been approved by the FDA yet, or you alluded to I should say, and there's a lot of factors we're accounting for here, Jake. One, we don't know which vaccine is the most effective with kids. We obviously have variants that are developing and we want to make sure we have a range of options, a lot of flexibility to ensure we have the right vaccines available.

So, there's a lot of factors our medical experts are considering. We did announce that we're going to be lending about 4 million doses total to Canada and Mexico, our neighbor countries, and we want to be part of the global effort to address the pandemic. So, there's no question these conversations will continue and as we're more confident in our supply and what the needs are that we have to address, we will certainly be contributing more or lending more to other countries.

TAPPER: The Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin made a trip to Afghanistan over the weekend. Former President Trump made a deal to have all American troops withdrawn from Afghanistan by May 1st. The President Biden has not committed to that deadline, and obviously there is not a firm peace deal with the Taliban.

Will he confirm -- go along with that deadline of May 1st, or are you kicking that can until the Biden administration figures out what it wants to do in Afghanistan?

PSAKI: Well, we're not kicking any can, but I'm going to leave the president the space to make a decision about what's next. He's currently having meetings with his policy teams and experts on this as you noted. His secretary of defense was in Afghanistan and those discussions are ongoing so nothing to preview for you today.

TAPPER: And last question, I just want to circle back on the migrant question, which is if you're sending the signal that kids who come to the United States and have the phone numbers of relatives in their pocket that you want to get them to those houses, isn't that message that you just made a few minutes ago going to encourage more of this?

And, look, we all want to be humane but one of the big fears here and risks here is the journey in which kids, especially girls, but all sorts of children and families are preyed upon by coyotes and other criminals.

[16:15:04]

Are you not afraid that when you say that, and I understand the motivation, you want to get these kids into a safe place once they are here, but even just saying that might get some more kids on the road in dangerous situations, no?

PSAKI: Well, Jake, that's certainly not our objective. I appreciate you raising it.

I think what I was trying to answer is what we're trying to do to prevent so many kids from being in the Border Patrol facilities, which I think we all agree is not a place for kids, not one there should be for longer than three days at max. But our message we're sending clearly, and I mentioned we're doing it through a lot of mediums, through social media, through radio, through TV -- we're trying to meet people where they are in the region -- is that this is not a safe journey, as you mentioned, that this is not the time to come and that people will be turned away at the border.

And that -- those statistics certainly bear that out, but that is the message overwhelmingly we're sending but we also want to be clear that we're going to do everything we can to ensure that kids are not left in these facilities for longer than they should be.

TAPPER: All right. It's a complicated issue, no doubt.

Jen Psaki, the White House press secretary, thanks so much for being on the show.

PSAKI: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: Appreciate it.

The Biden administration has its take on the AstraZeneca vaccine. Up next, the medical opinion on this brand.

Plus, Donald Trump, his rewards for loyalty and a notable absence on his new list of Republicans to be on the lookout for.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: In our health lead today, positive data out today in the U.S. trial of the AstraZeneca vaccine. It is 79 percent effective against symptomatic COVID and 100 percent effective against severe disease and hospitalization.

But even though we know outside is safer than inside. Officials are still concerned over scenes such as this one at Miami Beach, with swaths of rowdy spring breakers not wearing masks or social distancing.

Today, the CDC warned that the nation could be headed for yet another avoidable surge -- as CNN's Nick Watt now reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Despite the virus and the variants, despite a curfew and police pepper balls, you're watching Miami Beach this weekend, spring breakers. MAYOR DAN GELBER, MIAMI BEACH: It feels in some ways like our city is

a tinder right now. You know, we're one of the few destinations open so people are flocking here.

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We're at a critical point in this pandemic, a fork in the road.

WATT: Eight percent in Florida of new cases in Florida, we're told, are that more contagious variant first found in the U.K. In New Jersey, it's 9 percent.

WALENSKY: The Northeast and the Upper Midwest are beginning to again see a significant rise in cases.

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): A little bit reminiscent of what happened last spring.

WATT: But there is some optimism that despite what we're seeing in Florida, vaccines will win the race against the variants.

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D., FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: We're talking about some form of protective immunity in 55 percent of the population so there's enough of a backstop here that I don't think you're going to see a fourth surge.

WATT: He's talking about the 80 million plus Americans who have likely already been effective and the 80-million plus who have had at least one vaccine dose. Three vaccines rolling out already and AstraZeneca just published some late-stage U.S. trial results.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT: Good results. 78.9 percent vaccine efficacy are preventing symptomatic disease.

WATT: A hundred percent against severe disease and zero evidence it causes blood clots.

DR. LEANA WEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: The AstraZeneca vaccine, seen as the world's vaccine. It's inexpensive. It's easy to store and to transport.

WATT: But will those apparently baseless fears in Europe over clotting still put people off? In this pandemic, misinformation and messaging matter. They are life or death, says the man once tasked by Trump to lead the quest for a vaccine.

MONCEF SLAOUI, FORMER CHIEF SCIENTIFIC ADVISER, OPERATION WARP SPEED: Many people probably have died or suffered because the whole situation became so political.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): Now as of 8:00 a.m. Wednesday morning, Arizona is going to open vaccine eligibility to anyone and everyone, 16 and older. One of only three states so far to go that low. The others are Alaska and Mississippi and don't forgot that the Biden administration sticking to that pledge that within the next six weeks, every adult in America will be eligible for a vaccine -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. The real challenge, of course, eligibility but also getting those shots into arms.

Nick Watt, thanks so much.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us now.

Sanjay, what does the AstraZeneca data mean for the United States? When should we expect that anyone who wants a shot and who is an adult can get a shot?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.

Well, I think the data looks good, Jake. We've been through this a few times now obviously with other drug manufacturers and see what the FDA is looking for. So, you showed, I mean, the data, 79 percent effective against disease overall but 100 percent effective in terms of preventing hospitalizations and deaths. I mean, that's obviously very significant.

No significant safety concerns were relayed as part of this data as well. So what happens? We know that AstraZeneca is going to apply for emergency use authorization. They say they will do that in the first half of April.

When we went back and looked at the other process for the other drug companies, it took about three weeks after that, Jake. So talking maybe first week of may or so before this vaccine would be available, 30 million doses. They say they have manufactured another 20 million doses by the end of May.

So it's significant. I think that the idea that by, you know, middle and the end of May, you're going to have clearly enough vaccine out there that the supply will -- will be outstripping the demand.

TAPPER: Sanjay, in light of the recent controversies with the AstraZeneca vaccine in Europe, how can the FDA shore up confidence in AstraZeneca with Americans. I mean, hesitancy is already a problem. 36 percent say they don't want to take the vaccine at all, according to a CNN poll.

GUPTA: Yeah, I mean, look, that would be naive to say that's not going to have an impact.

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I mean, I don't think it should because this is one of those situations where, you know, everyone's antenna is sort of raised and any potential side effects and, you know, you find things that end up not being caused by the vaccine and that's what they have established in Europe via the World Health Organization, via the European Medical Association.

So the clotting issue really is not an issue with regard to this vaccine. Having said that, you know, people already hesitant. They got other choices of vaccines out there, so they may say, hey, look, I think you're right but I'm just going to pass on this particular vaccine, maybe take another vaccine or there's a lot of people who are sort of starting to fade away from the idea of needing to take a vaccine.

They think I'm not hesitant. Just like all the numbers look like they are improving so why do I need to bother. That shouldn't happen because in order for us to be best positioned coming out of summer, we need to have as many people vaccinated as possible.

TAPPER: You have the CDC Director Rochelle Walensky saying that she's worried we're going to have another avoidable surge. But then you might change the channel, and you hear former FDA commissioner, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, saying he does not think there's going to be a fourth wave because enough people have immunity, because so many people have been vaccinated already.

Where do you come down in this debate? Do you think we're headed for a fourth wave?

GUPTA: Well, you know, I hate to be the sort of arbiter of this discussion. I talked to both of these folks quite a bit, you know, off the record. But I think that's -- I think it's unlikely frankly when you just look at the data that we're going to have a significant fourth surge.

Let me say a couple of things. One is, you know, obviously the numbers have plateaued and maybe even gone up a little in terms of case numbers. We know that. You do have increasing vaccination. You have warmer weather, and as Scott Gottlieb stated, there is a lot of existing immunity that already exists. Those are the pros.

Cons, people are sort of still looking at this, many people are looking at this in the rear view mirror. I mean, if we started to go into April or May in a better position, then I feel very confident saying we're not going to have a fourth surge.

So the fact that people are not being as adherent is a concern and then there's always the strains that are of concern. I think with the U.K. strain. I'm not as worried. That's a concerning strain but these other strains like the Brazil strain, if that starts to become a more common strain here, that would be a problem.

But when I piece it all together, Jake, not to get out of your question, but I piece it all together, I don't think that there's going to be a significant surge of cases even if there's upticks. And also, what do you mine by surge, right? Is it going to lead to a corresponding number of increase in hospitalizations or deaths? I don't think so given the immunity.

I hope I'm not wrong on this, but that's the way the data sort of -- that's what the data suggests.

TAPPER: And also all those people who are in the most vulnerable populations who have been disproportionately immunized, especially as seniors. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

A puzzling move by the Justice Department, why a top prosecutor might have talked so openly about adding sedition charges against rioters at the U.S. Capitol and floated a possible investigation into Donald Trump. That's next.

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