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10 Killed in Mass Shooting at Colorado Grocery Store. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired March 23, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:59:25]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, March 23, 6 a.m. here in New York.

The breaking news this morning, on the front page of "The Denver Post." "A nightmare," it reads. Ten dead at a mass shooting at a grocery store in Boulder, Colorado. A nightmare. To be honest, it's America's reoccurring nightmare.

It comes less than a week after the spa shootings in Georgia left eight people dead. In Colorado alone, you have mass shootings so horrific they're known by one name, Columbine, Aurora.

As we wait to hear more from law enforcement this morning, we are getting new details in. The one known victim is 51-year-old police officer Eric Talley. He was the first officer to respond at the scene. He has seven children.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Oh my gosh.

BERMAN: He reportedly had been looking to transfer to a job as a drone operator, because he didn't want his family to worry about his safety.

CAMEROTA: Boulder Police have a suspect in custody. Authorities say he was injured and apprehended at the scene. His motive is unknown at this hour. One senior law enforcement forces tells CNN that an AR-15- style rifle was used in the massacre.

Colorado Senator John Hickenlooper is calling for federal action on gun control, but why would this time be any different than all the other times after mass shootings when Congress did nothing?

CNN's Dan Simon is live in Boulder at the scene of the shooting. What do we know at this hour, Dan?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

So much shock. So much anguish. We are across the street from the grocery store where this happened. This area is still taped off by police. So many questions, of course. The primary question being what would

cause this shooter to go into that supermarket and begin firing, seemingly at random?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON (voice-over): Ten people are dead after a gunman opened fire inside this Boulder, Colorado, supermarket Monday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's one right down there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God. Guys, we've got people down inside King Soopers. Look, there's --

(GUNSHOT)

SIMON: Witnesses recall hearing several loud bangs before customers frantically ran for the exits.

RYAN BOROWSKI, COLORADO SUPERMARKET SHOOTING WITNESS: This feels like the safest spot in America, and I just nearly got killed for getting a soda, you know, and a bag of chips.

SIMON: Police quickly arrive at the scene. The shooter was still inside the store firing a rifle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 136, we have multiple shots being fired at us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Start pushing slow, but be advised we do not know where he is. He is armed with a rifle. Our officers shot back and returned fire.

NEVEN SICAN, COLORADO SUPERMARKET SHOOTING WITNESS: And it was like, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. I immediately sprinted over to her and was like, hey, we've got to get out of here and pushed open the emergency door. And I told her to run.

SIMON: Law enforcement immediately worked to secure the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Boulder Police Department. The entire building is surrounded. I need you to surrender now.

SIMON: Eventually ramming into the building and forcing their way in.

STEVE MCHUGH, FAMILY WAS AT SUPERMARKET DURING SHOOTING: My son-in-law walked into the pharmacy for him to get a COVID-19 shot, and the shooter came in, shot the woman in front of them. They hid. Ran upstairs or hiding in the coat closet for the last hour. Half a dozen cops came in through the roof, got them and then told them, you know, stay quiet. And they -- they're OK. This is not OK with me. And this has put in a big pitch for gun control. You know, when it's your family --

SIMON: Fifty-one-year-old Boulder Police Officer Eric Talley was among the victims.

POLICE CHIEF MARIS HEROLD, BOULDER, COLORADO: Officer Talley responded to the scene, was the first on the scene, and he was fatally shot.

SIMON: The suspect was wounded and is currently in police custody. The district attorney vows justice will be served for the nine victims and Officer Talley.

MICHAEL DOUGHERTY, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, BOULDER, COLORADO: And his life was cut far too short as he responded to the shooting that was taking place at King Soopers. These were people going about their day, doing their food shopping, and their lives were cut abruptly and tragically short by the shooter, who is now in custody. I promise the victims and the people of the state of Colorado that we will secure justice and do everything we must do to get justice in this case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: Authorities have indicated it will take several days to complete the initial investigation, which will include processing the scene, interviewing witnesses, taking a look at potential surveillance video and, of course, gathering information about the suspect.

We know that a news conference has been scheduled at 10:30 Eastern Time this morning, where hopefully, we'll glean new information about exactly what took place.

John, back to you.

BERMAN: Dan Simon, ten people dead.

Joining us now, Dan Oates. He was the chief of the Aurora Police Department when a gunman killed 12 people in a movie theater there in 2012. Also with us, CNN national security analyst Juliette Kayyem. She was the assistant secretary for intergovernmental affairs at the Department of Homeland Security during the Obama administration.

Juliette, again, we're waiting for a news conference, 10:30 a.m. this morning. There is so much we don't know. What are the most important unknowns this morning?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: We don't know if names will be released. But obviously, they spent the last overnight trying to contact next of kin. It was clear from the press conference yesterday they had not done so. So I think that was why there was some confusion between the two press conferences.

The second will be what do they know about the suspect and whether he will be named and arraigned today.

[06:05:05]

And then the third will be just about the investigation. What are they finding in the market? How did the suspect get ahold of his gun? And then, of course, what is the motive?

There's a larger story here that may not be addressed today, but is -- is one that we have to address in light of what happened in Atlanta, which is are we facing a spring and summer of, you know, mass casualty events as we come out -- as people congregate? And that is something that the Biden White House will have to address, as well.

CAMEROTA: Juliette, how can that be? How can it be that, after a year of basic quarantine in the country, the first thing we do as Americans is go back to mass shootings? I mean, how can that be?

KAYYEM: So. Yes, so it's a distinctly and, sadly, American problem, right? I mean, this is something that is so unique to us that -- that I think it's hard for Americans to grasp just how -- how accepting we are of this kind of violence. We get upset and thoughts and prayers, but nothing ever changes.

Here's something that's interesting, however. We have a belief that we were all inside, nothing happened last year. There were not mass shootings like we've seen in the past at schools, theaters and supermarkets, but gun violence was actually up 25 percent. We don't know if that's because of psychological stresses, suicides or whatever else.

So, I know a lot of people are saying, Well, America is back. You know what? America never left. We have a gun problem. And it's one that was persistent through COVID. But one that may take on more deadly consequences, because people are congregating and out again.

BERMAN: Chief Oates, again, you were in Aurora during the mass shootings there, that awful shooting in the movie theater. Your reaction when you saw this news, a mass shooting not -- not too far, honestly, from where you were.

DANIEL OATES, FORMER AURORA, COLORADO, CHIEF OF POLICE: Well, I mean, my reaction is the same as anyone who's been through this in any community, and you can name them -- Las Vegas, El Paso, Parkland, Orlando, Aurora. All of those folks and all of those communities are traumatized every time one of these things happens.

And you know, we know -- anyone who's been through it knows all the anguish that -- that will come and will follow. And you know, so my initial reaction is tremendous grief for that new community in Boulder that is now going to go through what all of us have been through.

CAMEROTA: Chief, we've read that the local law enforcement there say it will take five days, they estimate, to process the scene. Why? Why so long?

OATES: Well, I bet you it's going to be more than five days. In Aurora, I think it was two weeks before we released the theater.

Among the things that will happen is Boulder PD will rely on the additional resources of the state and the FBI to do the forensic work. But what happens is as you get into that -- into that store and begin to do the forensic work, it takes a lot longer than you think.

And don't forget, we have a live defendant to be prosecuted. Aside from all the support that the police department and the government of Boulder has to lend to those communities, they've got to get a conviction here. It becomes the central focus of that police department over the next year or two is to -- is to build a case against this defendant. And they've got to do everything right. So they've got to do painstakingly -- painstakingly slow forensics.

And so my guess is that store won't be released and reopened for more than five days.

BERMAN: Chief, what's going on behind the scenes this morning if the idea is to build a case, and you have a live suspect? What's happening right now?

OATES: Well, a real consideration here, and that we faced in the Aurora case, is when I'm sure there's overwhelming evidence here, so then it becomes that the best approach that the defense will take is an insanity defense.

And to defeat an insanity defense, the prosecution is going to have to show that this guy understood right from wrong and understood the consequences of his actions.

And part of that investigation is going to have to be showing, as Juliette said, motivation. In the Aurora example, for instance, detectives did research into backdating months and months of this guy's -- the suspect's digital profile to show evidence that he had planned the event. He understood right from wrong. He knew the consequences of taking the kind of action that he took. And that became critical evidence in front of the jury to convince them and to defeat the insanity defense.

CAMEROTA: Juliette, there are a lot of eyewitnesses to this, people who lived through it, people who hid, people who were neighbors, people who had to hide, people who saw what happened in the parking lot where -- where we believe a couple of the victims were killed and then inside and what, at this hour, none of them report him saying anything, the suspect saying anything while this was happening, which I think is a little bit unusual. What do you think happens next in the investigation?

[06:10:05]

KAYYEM: The same as what -- what Dan said. The thing I'm most interested in was he known to the police department?

What I found interesting yesterday was how quickly the police department came, even in that first press conference, and said there's no continuing threat to the community. They -- they seemed very confident in that.

So the question is, was he known to the police department? What was -- what was his prior record? And -- and had he done anything similar?

It will also -- this investigation will also go to the access to the gun. Colorado has relatively permissive gun laws, and so how did he access it? And what kind of weaponry did he have?

And then third, as Dan was saying, the motivation. It may be we don't know or ever can find out the motivation. We saw this with Las Vegas. And so the families, I think, have to be prepared for that. But that's where the investigation will go in terms of the weeks ahead. And all of the witnesses you describe will be interviewed to determine

did he -- did he hint at anything? Did he say anything? What was his -- what was his motivation and whether he expressed it.

So that is why this investigation, while it seems easy, right? You have a single place. You have the victims, and you have the perpetrator alive. This is why this investigation will take a while, because you want a conviction on the other side of this.

BERMAN: Juliette Kayyem, Dan Oates, thank you both for helping us understand this this morning. If it is possible, frankly, to understand.

Juliette brought up the weapon, brought up whether or not the gunman was known to police beforehand. That gets to very real issues around gun reform.

We understand it was an AR-style rifle that was used there. We also know that Colorado -- Boulder, Colorado, had passed a ban on assault weapons before, but it was overturned by a judge. I think, what, last week? Question now: What will Congress do? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:16:05]

CAMEROTA: Ten Americans were killed after a gunman opened fire at a Colorado grocery store. This is the second mass shooting in the U.S. in less than a week. Will President Biden and Congress do anything to address the gun violence epidemic in this country?

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is live at the White House with more. What's happening there, Jeremy?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

The White House press secretary, Jen Psaki, tweeting last night that President Biden has indeed been briefed on the shooting, that his team will continue to update him as there are developments in this case. But we haven't heard anything more yet from the White House as of the last hour.

We do know that President Biden is expected to travel to the state of Ohio today to tout the Affordable Care Act and some of the reforms that he was able to get into this $1.9 trillion stimulus bill. We will see if he continues on with that trip.

But certainly, I would expect him, if he does continue with that trip, to address this shooting either as he leaves the White House or in his remarks later today in the state of Ohio.

But there is already pressure mounting for some action on gun reform legislation. The question is whether President Biden will get on board with that.

We have already seen Colorado Senator Hickenlooper. He took to the Twitter last night to say that, while he's thinking of the families and the victims in this situation, he also says, "We don't know all the details yet, but we do know our country has a horrific problem with gun violence. We need federal action now."

Several other Democratic senators, including Chris Murphy of Connecticut, where the Sandy Hook shooting took place back in 2012, also talking about the need for gun reform action right now.

We will see whether or not President Biden decides to start talking about that. He didn't last week in the wake of that shooting in Atlanta -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Jeremy, stay with us, if you would.

Also joining is Anna Palmer. She is the founder of Punchbowl News.

And Anna, all of us -- I mean, obviously, John and I, I'm sure you guys have spent far too many mornings like this in the aftermath of a horrible mass shooting again in the United States. Is there any reason to believe that this time would be different when after Sandy Hook Congress didn't act, when after, you know, Parkland they had to do it on a state level? I mean, I could go through the whole sad list. Is there any reason that today would be different?

ANNA PALMER, FOUNDER, PUNCHBOWL NEWS: Yes. It's hard to see what is going to change it this time, unfortunately. The Senate's work is actually really tragically well timed. Today the Senate Judiciary Committee is hosting on constitutional and common-sense steps to reduce gun violence. This was obviously planned before any of this happened.

But I think it also just underscores the fact that this is a national crisis that continues to happen.

Senate Democrats are trying to push forward with this, but the way that Congress works, there's a majority in the House that would support moving forward with gun control of some kind, but in the Senate, there is not that 60-vote threshold. And that's why I really think this filibuster, again, is going to come under fire, because you're going to see a lot of activists and others say, this if not now, when?

BERMAN: I know a lot of people look at this and say it's hopeless. But people will remember that after El Paso and Dayton, it is amazing that we can literally list the cities here to remember the mass shootings -- that was 2019. Mitch McConnell cracked the door open a little bit. He did. Now nothing happened. But he cracked the door open a little bit on issues involving red flag laws. That means people who may have had mental health issues so serious that family members wanted them watched carefully.

Red flag laws and also what's called the Charleston loophole, Anna, which has to do with a waiting period, extending the waiting period maybe from three days from five to seven if you don't get information back from the federal database.

You know, might there be some limited areas, given McConnell's willingness to at least listen back then, where people could talk?

PALMER: I do think there might be some areas where you'll see Republicans and Democrats try to come together. You saw Senator John Cornyn and others after that tragic shooting in El Paso come forward, wanting to try to find a way forward.

[06:20:12]

The other point I would make that I do think makes the dynamics very different now than in potentially past incidences is the fact that the National Rifle Association is really at an all-time low in terms of political power. They're under duress in terms of investigations, in terms of lawsuits. And so, oftentimes, the fear, I think, that they wielded for a lot of Republicans in terms of getting re-elected is no longer there.

I still think that that 60-vote threshold in the Senate is really where all of the focus should be, because you may have a couple Republicans on some things, you know, be supportive of it.

But if you remember back in 2012 after Sandy Hook happened, Joe Biden, then vice president, was tapped by President Barack Obama to lead the effort on that. And even that, which was very tragic, and children, and really the national attention had never been higher in this country, they still were unable to do anything; very small, paired- back bill in the Senate, ended up failing.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, I mean, if -- if we sound pessimistic, John, it is -- I mean, part of it is the lesson from Sandy Hook. That there couldn't have been a very unifying moment in grief in the country, and the bills all failed after that.

Now, I mean, there was incremental change, Jeremy. The bump stock was banned after the horrifying Las Vegas shooting. So, it's just these little, teeny things that apparently, Congress can get their arms around.

DIAMOND: Yes. And you know, it is remarkable, and it is notable how little President Biden has focused on gun reform in his time in office so far.

Of course, he has a lot on his plate from the coronavirus pandemic, the economic crisis associated with that, the situation on the southern border, as well.

But -- but for a vice -- for a president, who as vice president led this gun reform task force in the wake of that Sandy Hook shooting, who as a senator helped pass the Brady background check bill back in the '90s, the assault weapons ban as part of the '94 Crime Bill, President Biden really hasn't focused all that much on gun reform.

In fact, he hasn't even mentioned or put out a statement after the House passed two pieces of gun reform legislation focused mainly on background check reforms in recent weeks.

And last week, in the wake of that Atlanta shooting, we saw the president focus on the anti-Asian hate happening in America, but he really didn't address gun reform legislation either, even as some gun control activists had begun talking about the cooling off period, which was perhaps an issue in that -- in those shootings in Atlanta last week.

And perhaps that's because President Biden, more than anybody else, because of all of his experience focusing on this issue, knows how difficult it is. And so far, he has been unwilling to -- to endorse doing away with the filibuster altogether.

We saw him last week talk about the fact that he would be willing to make it more painful, make it more difficult, including requiring a talking filibuster on the floor, with senators opposing legislation actually holding the floor for hours on end.

But he hasn't endorsed removing the 60-vote threshold, which is really the only way that you can get significant gun reform legislation passed.

And even then, it would be an uphill battle, because you have Senator Joe Manchin, for example, who has resisted some background check legislation, including on private sales, for example.

So again, the challenges are so huge here. But we will see if this one more shooting in America, you know, prompts some more action or gets at least President Biden to start tackling this as higher up on his priority list for his agenda.

BERMAN: I guess we've got to go, but -- but you brought up one extra wrinkle which is Joe Manchin, and he was a central player after Sandy Hook in trying to craft a compromised legislation, known as Manchin- Toomey, with Pat Toomey. Both of them are still there, and Joe Manchin is, you know, 100 times more important to the institution of the Senate today than he was then, Anna.

And if Joe Manchin wants something -- we'll see soon how much Joe Manchin wants to drive this train. If he wants to push this and make this a priority, you know, he may get people to listen on both sides.

PALMER: Yes. It certainly will be interesting to see how he chooses to come out on this issue. That Toomey-Manchin legislation died, and you haven't really seen them try to resurrect it in the same manner or push it that aggressively.

Pat Toomey, of course, retiring, leaving the Senate.

So the question, I really do think, is what Republicans are going to do? They're going to have to find -- you know, to do any kind of legislation, even smaller legislation, they're going to have to find some allies on the right to come forward.

I do think that the one thing that really has changed also, I would just note, is the fact that the parents and the actual gun control activists are very organized and very motivated. I've been speaking to some of them over the past couple of weeks. And they feel like now is their moment, and they continue to kind of just try to do as much as they can.

[06:25:13]

So I think you're going to see them try to put an immense amount of pressure on the Senate to try to do something.

CAMEROTA: Thank you both for all of that reporting. We really appreciate it.

So now to this story. The U.S. health officials -- U.S. health officials have released a highly unusual statement overnight. They're questioning the results from that AstraZeneca vaccine trial that we reported on yesterday. So we'll explain why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Developing overnight, a highly unusual statement from health officials. This has to do with the claims from AstraZeneca they made just yesterday, not even 24 hours ago, that a huge trial showed their vaccine to be.