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New Day

Another American City Mourns Lives Lost to Gun Violence; More States Expand Vaccine Eligibility to All Adults. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired March 24, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Thanks so much.

New Day continues right now.

Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day.

A police officer, a musician, an actress, a soon to be grandfather, just some of the people killed in a Boulder, Colorado, grocery store. We do know their names this morning. We know their families are grieving. We know they're asking questions. We honestly don't know if lawmakers will bother give them any answers.

There's new information about the suspect. He's charged with ten counts of first first-degree murder. His first court appearance scheduled for tomorrow. The weapon used in the massacre purchased just days ago.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: This morning, the White House flag is at half-staff. Again, it was also lowered last week after Atlanta's mass shooting at the spas. President Biden calling for an end to the carnage starting with expanded background checks and a ban on assault weapons. But that might be too much to ask in Congress.

So we begin this morning with the investigation, and Dan Simon is live in Boulder with the latest. Dan?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The suspect, Alisyn, 21-year-old Ahmad Alissa was armed with two semi-automatic weapons when he went to the grocery store, one of which he purchased just six days before the attack.

Now, according to his brother, he suffered from mental illness, and that is a recipe for disaster.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON (voice over): This morning, authorities are investigating why a gunman opened fire at a Colorado supermarket and killed ten people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know if there's a shooter, active shooter somewhere. SIMON: Witnesses say they first heard shots around 2:40 P.M. local time Monday.

ANNA HAYNES, WITNESSED BOULDER MASSACRE FROM APARTMENT: We can see the entire front of the store from our living room window. I initially heard ten maybe gunshots. I assumed it was a firework or a car engine failing. I saw a body in the middle of the parking lot.

BRIAN KRUESI, WITNESSED BOULDER MASSACRE: He was walking through the parking lot and just shooting towards the other doorway from where I was.

SIMON: Maggie Montoya was inside the King Soopers in Boulder working at the pharmacy, signing people up for the COVID-19 vaccine.

MAGGIE MONTOYA, BOULDER MASSACRE SURVIVOR: It sounded like he was right outside our door. We couldn't see him through the crack of the door, but it sounded like we could hear him just so clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Suspect in the building, this is the Boulder Police Department. The entire building is surrounded.

SIMON: Less than an hour after responding the calls of a shooter, police taking the 21-year-old suspect into custody. According to an arrest warrant affidavit, authorities say the gunman started the shooting in the parking lot before moving inside where they reported him wearing a tactical vest, armed with two semi-automatic weapons. A law enforcement source tells CNN one was purchased just six days earlier.

The suspect is now behind bars and charged with ten counts of murder and one charge of attempted murder.

MICHAEL DOUGHERTY, BOULDER COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There's an extensive investigation just getting underway into his background. He's lived most of his life in the United States. And beyond that, we're still in the very early stages of the investigation.

SIMON: At the White House, President Joe Biden calling for immediate action.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: I don't need to wait another minute, let alone an hour to take common sense steps.

SIMON: Back in Boulder, a memorial growing outside the grocery store as the community mourns the victims of Monday's massacre, one of them, Officer Eric Talley, his police car now covered in flowers.

CHIEF MARIS HEROLD, BOULDER POLICE DEPARTMENT: He cared about this community. He cared about his family. And he was willing to die to protect others.

SIMON: Local authorities pledging to find justice for the victims of yet another mass shooting in the United States.

DOUGHERTY: I promise you that all of us here will work tirelessly and also to make sure that the killer is held absolutely and fully accountable for what he did.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: Now, Alissa, when he eventually surrendered to police, he did not answer their questions but he did say that he wanted to speak with his mother. He will have his first court appearance tomorrow morning. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Yes, thank you very much for all of that.

So, President Biden is urging Congress to come together to take, quote, common sense steps to address gun violence. The president is renewing calls for a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The United States Senate -- I hope some are listening -- should immediately pass the two House-passed bills that close loopholes in the background check system.

[07:05:05]

These are bills that receive votes of both Republicans and Democrats in the House. This is not and should not be a partisan issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Colorado State Senate Majority Leader Steve Fenberg. Senator Fenberg, thank you very much for being here.

What are your thoughts this morning having had more than 24 hours to process what happened in Boulder?

STATE SEN. STEVE FENBERG (D-CO): Well, thanks for having me, Alisyn. I think my thoughts are continuing to be with the families and the victims. And, you know, as we learn a little bit more about these individuals and their lives and the events that unfolded the other day, it's impossible to think about much else throughout the day.

But our community is hurting. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time this has happened in the community. I mean, it just happens to be our community this time. I think we all got a little too used to not seeing these horrible events in the headlines over the last year. Unfortunately, it seems like as we get back to normal in other areas of our lives, it seems like this one is returning as well.

CAMEROTA: I mean, that's just the strange tragic paradox. We have to be in quarantine to avoid mass shootings in this country? That's our choice?

FENBERG: Well, we don't have to be is the sad thing. I mean, this is actually within our control. And as we just heard the president talking at his press conference yesterday, I mean, these are -- there are actions we can take. We don't only need to do thoughts and prayers. Obviously, we need to be thinking about the victims and the families right now. But there are also common sense actions we can take at a state level, a local level, and most importantly, we need them to be taken at a federal level for them to be truly effective.

CAMEROTA: Well, let's talk about that, okay? Let's just talk if there is some way out of this because, at the national level, it often feels very intractable, as it does this morning. And I know you had said that Colorado has done quite a bit on gun violence. So why couldn't they stop? If that's true at a state level, why couldn't Colorado stop a 21-year-old with a history of mental instability and violence from getting a gun like this?

FENBERG: Well, it's a good question, and I think many of us are asking ourselves that question. I know law enforcement will be over the next several days and weeks ahead. But you're right, we do have good protections in state law. Obviously, they are not enough to eradicate this crisis that we are seeing in our communities across the state.

But we have background checks. We actually have high-capacity magazine limits on the books and we have for several years now. We have the red flag law, which allows law enforcement to intervene when someone is known to have a gun and is in a moment of crisis and could be a harm to themselves or others. But there's more that we need to do clearly.

And I don't think you will ever get to a place where you end gun violence, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to get there and make improvements. And every improvement you make may prevent the next crisis. And we should do that. We should think about an assault weapons ban hopefully on a federal level. And if not, I mean, you could be looking at it more aggressively on a state-by-state level.

But there are several aspects that we need to do, not to mention we have absolutely do need to be investing more in behavioral health, mental health and support systems.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, yes, and don't you think that some of this responsibility should lie with gun shop owners and sellers? This guy, according to his family, thought people were chasing him. He covered up his computer because he thought people were monitoring him. He thought he was being followed. He's felt this way since 2014. How could a gun shop owner not screen that? How could -- how about just a couple of questions, do you think you're being followed, do you feel paranoid right now?

I mean, the idea that we don't know where he got the gun or that it hasn't publicly disclosed at least to know where he got the gun, what questions the gun shop owner would have asked him? I mean, it just seems it's impossible to think.

And one more thing, you often hear from right-wing gun activists or gun enthusiasts, I should say, you really need good guys with guns to stop bad guys with guns. There were ten good guys in that supermarket, ten good guys, one of whom was a trained police officer, and they're no match for an A.R.-15-style weapon.

FENBERG: You're absolutely right. [07:10:00]

There's not one policy solution. That doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue all options that should be on the table but we have to look at everything. We have to look at the process that someone goes through when they purchase a gun. Should they be able to walk in and five minutes later walk out with a military-grade weapon? Absolutely not. There should at least be a waiting periods for these types of destructive devices. But I think we probably need to do a lot more when it comes to background checks.

There are so many areas that we can tighten up if this country is willing to have that conversation. I know in Colorado we are because we have had this conversation and we're going to continue it, no question, in the legislature, at the ballot box, living rooms, et cetera. We need this conversation to be happening at a federal level in a more robust way. It's just -- it's sad. It's an absolute shame that there has been no action --

CAMEROTA: I hear you, but I feel like we have this conversation a lot and then nothing happens. And it's particularly maddening that in Boulder, they try to do something. So in Boulder, as you know, in 2018, they tried to pass a law to protect their own citizens after Parkland and ban these kinds of weapons. And on the 12th, March 12th, two Fridays ago, a judge overturned that. This suspect bought the weapon on the 16th. Had the judge not overturned on the 12th and had this suspect bought it in Boulder, we're not sure of that, would he have been blocked from buying it? Would that law have prevented him from buying that weapon?

FENBERG: Yes, not question. That weapon wouldn't been able to be purchased within city limits. It would have been illegal possess that type of a weapon within city limits.

And I'm not going to say that that policy would have saved these people's lives because we're fairly certain he didn't purchase that gun in Boulder. He purchased it outside of the community most likely is what I'm understanding.

There are many things we need to do, one of which is fix the state law that allowed for the judge to overturn the local ordinance that ban assault weapons. And that's something that I'm working on in the state legislature and I look forward to introducing in the near future, but we have to be having a conversation that is scary, it's difficult, it's challenging, but we have to have a conversation on why these weapons even exist, why can someone, not just this individual, but why does anybody need these types of destructive weapons with many (INAUDIBLE).

CAMEROTA: Yes, this isn't (INAUDIBLE).

FENBERG: That's right. And, Alisyn, I mean, you're right, after one of these events, unfortunately, we have this conversation or calls for action. There are many folks say it's too soon, that we need to let the families grieve. And, absolutely, this community is going to grieve over the next several days, weeks, months, frankly, years. But this conversation is too late. It's not too soon. It's very much too late for these ten innocent lives that were lost. And we need to keep that in mind because there will be a next one. There will be a next shooting. And we need to have this conversation now before it's too late again.

CAMEROTA: Senator, I have to let you go, but do you know where he got the gun?

FENBERG: My latest understanding -- you may know more. It's quite early, so I haven't looked at the news today. But my understanding is that it was purchased at a gun dealer outside of Boulder, potentially in Arvada where he lives. So he doesn't live in Boulder. He lives in Arvada, which is just a community over -- and we still don't know a lot of the details on why, how and what led up to this.

CAMEROTA: Right. Senator Steve Fenberg, we appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

FENBERG: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: What do we know about the alleged gunman and how he got the weapon used in for this massacre? We'll share with you our news details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00]

BERMAN: The 21-year-old suspect in the Boulder grocery store massacre now is facing ten counts of first-degree murder. CNN has learned he was wearing a tactical vest and he purchased A.R.-style six days before the attack.

Joining me now is CNN Counterterrorism Analyst Phil Mudd. He's a former FBI senior intelligence adviser and former CIA counterterrorism official.

Phil, you know, I just told you pretty much everything we know at this point about the suspect. Authorities really haven't given much information about what they think a possible motive might be, background, et cetera, et cetera. And by this point, you know they've gone through social media, you know they've talked to friends, family and as many people as they can. But you think there's a reason they're not telling us much more. What is that?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Well, there's a couple of reasons. First is consistency. The reports coming out over the past day or so, John, are talking about the mental condition of the subject. Let's assume that the motivation is clear. I would not assume that.

When authorities are talking to friends, family, former schoolmates, to the subject them self, we're only a couple of days into it. In terms of clarity, I would not be certain that the motivations -- they might have a lot of information but that that information leads to a clear motivation, so clarity is a problem.

The second thing I would say, John, is look at what we just saw in Atlanta. The authorities were out fairly quickly talking about motivation, in that case, talking about some sort of potential sexual addiction of the subject. And, immediately, the media was on authorities for why they didn't speak about were talking about hate crimes.

So as soon as the authorities get up, people are going to be on them. And unless they're consistent, and I'm not sure they can be at this point, unless they're consistent, the media will be all over them.

BERMAN: Sometimes I do wonder whether by saying less, it shows that they actually know more, that they don't need the public's help in this, that they are deep into figuring out things on their own and they will tell us when they have everything.

MUDD: Well, I think that's true. I mean, they've already talked about it and they wouldn't say this unless they knew it. They've already talked about no additional threat to public safety. That means they know that there aren't other people out who are in a cluster of friends, family, associates with this individual who share his views.

[07:20:01]

But in terms of sorting through what you mentioned earlier, emails, text, phones, friends, friends going back maybe three, four or five years, sorting through that information, if you have a subject whose mind isn't perfectly clear, that's volume of information that can give you clarity because in 2021, we have access to so much stuff, but it's also a volume, it takes a while to get through, John.

BERMAN: So, Phil, The New York Times reports, and CNN hasn't confirmed this, but this what The Times says, the suspect's identity was previously known to the FBI because he was linked to another individual under investigation by the bureau. What would that mean if true?

MUDD: Well, when you're investigating the bureau, you go in the terms we used to use, one hop or two hops out. So in the counterterrorism investigation, I did, if you take a subject under investigation, one hop would be someone that subject is texting, someone that subject is calling. So that doesn't mean that individual has done anything wrong. That means in a complex investigation, in a high-end investigation, you want to know not only the subject, you want to know what used to call the spider web, the group of people around that person. So if you move against the subject and there's a conspiracy, you take out the entire conspiracy. It does not mean that that individual has done something wrong though, John.

BERMAN: And it doesn't necessarily mean you know a ton about that individual going in, correct?

MUDD: Correct, yes, that's right.

BERMAN: You keep talking about mental health, Phil, here, and I want to read you what the brother of the suspect told CNN. He always suspected someone was behind him, someone was chasing him. We kept a close on eye on him when he was in high school. He would say, someone is chasing me, someone is investigating me, and we're like, come on, man, there's nothing. He was just closing into himself.

So if you hear that and you're investigating this, what do you think, what do you do?

MUDD: The first is be careful. Do we want people who are friends or family calling federal authorities or state authorities and saying, my friend or family shouldn't have a weapon. How are you supposed to investigate this at the state and local or at the federal level? There's 330 million people.

I think who say that are saying things that are appropriate but there's a simple answer. Look, this will offend you. I'm an American. I'm a proud American. But we live in the United States of arrogance. If you look at educational standards in this country, they are mediocre because we cannot to Asia and Europe and say, somebody has a better way.

If you look at access to health care in this country, we are mediocre because we cannot look to Asia and Europe and say other people have better access, we should learn.

If you look at violent crime and suicide by weapon and you look at Asia and Europe, we simply look at America and say we're exceptional, we cannot look at other countries and say we can learn.

This country has a problem with arrogance, John, and you're seeing it in spades when we're dealing with these violent crimes.

BERMAN: What's the law enforcement view of this? This guy was wearing a tactical vest. Had this modified A.R.-style pistol, it's called, even though it's sort of barely a pistol or only a pistol so it can get around certain laws, so if you're in law enforcement, how you do feel about the weaponry this guy has?

MUDD: You might be surprised by the answer. I talked to another senior law enforcement official last night to try and make sure I understand how the people I used to work with think. Their views are published, and the views are quite straightforward. If you think about this from a perspective of a cop, the views will make sense.

They oppose -- and this is published by groups like the International Association of Chiefs of Police, one of the largest and most authoritative police organizations on the planet. They oppose high- capacity magazines, they oppose semi-automatic weapons and they oppose the public's ability to purchase online, for example, tactical vests. They do not want to have people going around playing SWAT team. And that is published by police officials. They are not in favor of access by the public to these kinds of magazines, vests, and A.R.-15s.

BERMAN: Phil Mudd, as always, thanks for being with us this morning.

MUDD: Thank you. BERMAN: This morning, new states expanding vaccine eligibility to residents 16 and up. What does this tell us? Is this a sign of success, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00]

CAMEROTA: Vaccine update for you now. Starting today, Utah and Arizona will expand vaccine eligibility to anyone over the age of 16. Georgia will do the same beginning tomorrow. And Texas will do so on Monday. By the end of April, half of the U.S. will offer vaccines to all adults.

Joining us now is Dr. Ashish Jha, he's the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Dr. Jha, great to see you.

So that sounds like good news to me that they're expanding the eligibility, but I know that you see some the weakness in the details.

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes. So, good morning and thank you for having me on.

I've been a pretty big fan of expanding the eligibility quickly. I'm not convinced that this isn't certainly a great sign. When I look at some of the states that doing it, Georgia ranked 50th out of 50 states in terms of proportion of people who have gotten at least one shot. Texas is ranked 44th. Utah is ranked at the 46th or 47th.

All these states have done a pretty poor job of vaccinating their population. I worry this is a sign that they're actually not -- there's a lot of hesitancy and there are not a lot of people getting vaccinated. And that's why that they're expanding the population.

BERMAN: What do you think is going wrong in those places?

JHA: Well, we do know that there is a lot hesitancy in certain communities. And I think that's maybe one part of it. I think my best guess is there hasn't been enough outreach. They haven't done enough on really making it accessible. And when you don't make it accessible, when you don't do outreach, not a lot of people get the vaccine. And then you start expanding eligibility. I'd rather focus on access than just eligibility unto itself.

CAMEROTA: But, I mean, aren't just numbers good numbers? If they open it up and 16-year-olds are getting vaccinated, and 17-year-olds and 18-year-olds, those were more people that aren't going to spread it to their grandparents, I mean, if you cast a wider net, isn't that good?

JHA: Absolutely. And that's why I think we need to get to lots of people quickly. The problem is there are still a lot of very vulnerable people in these states that haven't gotten a shot at all, people in their 60s and 70s who haven't gotten a shot.

[07:30:08]