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Don Lemon Tonight
George Floyd's Last Moments Relived In Court; 911 Dispatcher Disturbed By Police Action; Derek Chauvin's Lawyer Insists George Floyd Died Of Heart Failure; MMA Fighter Testified In Court; Sen. Lindsey Graham Getting Defensive As Backlash Grows Over GOP's Nationwide Effort To Pass Laws Restricting Voting. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 29, 2021 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:00:58]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): Let's bring in the big man, Don Lemon, and the big show, "CNN TONIGHT." America is watching what's happening in Minnesota, my brother.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Certainly is. Good to have you back.
CUOMO: Thank you.
LEMON: So, I was watching today, and you know, I kept thinking, the last trial that I was, I had to pay this close of attention to, and have this much interest, televised, I think it was O.J. The one that had this big video element was Rodney King. Right? All happening in our lifetimes, and here we go. I think that was the first big one with video, Rodney King.
CUOMO: It was.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And in the first verdict, the reason it was so upsetting was that it seemed so obvious on its face, and yet, the justice system saw the other way.
LEMON: That's where I'm going. And I'm glad you said it. Yes.
CUOMO: And I wonder what happens here. You know, I was talking though, you only need one juror to believe that this was about George Floyd's body, and not what was done to his body.
LEMON: Yes. And that's -- that's what they are presenting now. And I think about -- think about this, Chris, as I listen to the defense, and them talking about addiction, and opioids. You think of the opioid crisis in this country, and how much we have been saying people need empathy, and not condemnation.
People need empathy, and help, and not judgment, or stigma. And the defense, to me, it felt -- something just felt wrong about it. If you think about it over the course of the pandemic, how people have been dealing with these problems, how we have been saying this since the crack -- crack epidemic. We didn't give the people the empathy they needed, the help that they needed.
And this time around, with opioids, and heroin, we said we are trying to make a commitment to people to help them, and not shun them. And so that is their defense. Now think of college aged kids, right, your kids out drinking. And has some sort of, you know, altercation, or running with a police officer, is that -- and they've been drinking. Is that a death sentence because they have alcohol in their body? No, they're not.
CUOMO: Depends on what color they are.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And where they are.
LEMON: But that's -- but it shouldn't. It shouldn't mean a death sentence, because someone has some sort of substance in their body, if it was not life-threatening. They weren't carrying a gun, they weren't threatening to kill anybody, if they were already handcuffed on the street. It shouldn't mean a death sentence.
So, think about your loved one. If they have an issue with drugs, or the just maybe out drinking and they have some sort of, they had a run in with a police officer. Does that mean, because they are in that situation, that it is OK for an officer to put their knee on your loved one's neck for that long?
Is that -- why do people make excuses for that? I see people on social media saying, he had Fentanyl, he had this. Is that a death sentence? I don't think so. I just don't -- I don't -- have some empathy. try to understand.
CUOMO: The whole point is, de-escalation.
LEMON: Amen.
CUOMO: One side of the education is trained. One side of the equation is not. They deal with people on bad situations. Resisting arrest, even if you want to believe he did, and I've never seen good evidence of it in the video, but people judge as they want, certainly the jury must, it's still not supposed to be a death sentence.
The biggest factor, in this trial that I think will be difficult for the defense to overwhelm.
LEMON: The time. And that's where --
CUOMO: Eight, forty-six, it's now 9, 29 of --
LEMON: Twenty-nine.
CUOMO: -- multiple officers who have plenty of conversation. The 911 dispatch are saying, this is taking a long time.
LEMON: A long time. Yes.
CUOMO: He had time to make a different decision. You smack me, I've an instant moment, what do I do?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That's one kind of judgment. I have 9 minutes and 29 seconds to decide what I am going to do to you, I have a lot of time to make different choices, to correct choices.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And that wasn't done here.
LEMON: So long that she thought the video was frozen. And listen, you led to the beginning of the opening of my show, and I thank you. It's good to have you back. I miss our conversations, we'll have more, as you know, with your help number one.
(CROSSTALK)
[22:05:06]
I've always wanted a number one friend, D. Lemon.
LEMON: Number one.
CUOMO: And now, I've got a number one bestselling author as my boy, D. Lemon.
LEMON: But I say that because it's what -- it's what we're dealing with right now. It was -- it was the inspiration, what happened to George Floyd was the inspiration for this book. And so, I think it's timely and it's helpful. So, thank you. I'll talk to you tomorrow.
CUOMO: It's number one because people need it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: And you did the right thing at the right time, and I love you for it. On with the show.
LEMON (on camera): Thank you, sir. I love you more.
So, this is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Thank you for -- can I have -- you know when someone calls your friend or your boss, someone, when they need to talk to you, they say, can I have a few minutes of your time? Can I have a few minutes of your undivided attention here?
And I know your time is very precious, it's very valuable. If I can have 10 minutes of it, and I'm going to tell you why in just a second here. Ten minutes. And again, your time is valuable. Ten minutes is a long time for you to devote to someone like me, right? So, you've heard that number over and over again, 8, 46, 8, 46, 8
minutes and 46 seconds. And that was stunning when we first saw it, the first time we heard it, that's a long time. You've heard that's how long white police officer, a white police officer Derek Chauvin, kneeled on the neck of a black man, George Floyd, as he begged for his life.
But as Chris just told you, we learned today that it was a much longer than that. He stayed on George Floyd's neck for 9 minutes, and 29 seconds. So, I just want to put something on the screen for you, as I'm doing this. So, please, there it is. I'm going to run a clock on the screen for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. It's an excruciatingly long time. Much longer than you think. And it goes on, and on, and on.
So, I'm going to go on with the show, I just want you to think about the time, it's -- someone's knee is on your neck and they are stopping you from breathing. But even that horrific number doesn't begin to tell you what happened to George Floyd. It doesn't begin to tell you how he struggled to get air in his lungs. How he told officers more than 20 times, I can't breathe. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. I can't breathe.
How he cried out in pain, begged for his mother. How the crowd pleaded with the police to stop. Calling out how long are you going to hold him down? While Derek Chauvin just kept his knee on his neck. Nine minutes and 29 seconds.
All of this happening on a Minneapolis street in broad daylight and it was caught ton camera. On e- just -- this is one minute right now. The whole video was played in court today as the trial of Derek Chauvin began. The ex-officer, charged with unintentional second-degree murder, third degree murder, and manslaughter.
This is just a portion of that video shown to the jurors today. Some of them seeing it for the very first time, really difficult to watch. But it's just a small part of what happened to George Floyd in the street on May 25th of last year, arrested for allegedly using a counterfeit bill at a convenience store.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNKNOWN: Relax.
GEORGE FLOYD, VICTIM, POLICE BRUTALITY: I can't breathe. Please, you're scaring the.
UNKNOWN: What do you want?
FLOYD: I can't breathe. Please, the knee on my neck, I can't breathe (muted).
UNKNOWN: Look, you're not getting in the car, man.
FLOYD: I will.
UNKNOWN: Just get in the car. FLOYD: I can't move.
UNKNOWN: I've been (Inaudible) the whole time, man. Just get in the car.
FLOYD: Mama.
UNKNOWN: Get up, get in the car, right.
FLOYD: Mama! Mama!
UNKNOWN: Get up, get in the car.
FLOYD: I can't.
UNKNOWN: You can't go. I was telling you to get in. But I tell you, you can't win.
FLOYD: Please.
UNKNOWN: I know you're not going to listen.
FLOYD: I'm through, I'm through. I'm claustrophobic. My stomach hurt. My neck hurts. Everything hurts. I need some water or something, please. Please? I can't breathe, officer.
UNKNOWN: Brother, you can see (Inaudible).
UNKNOWN: Shut up.
FLOYD: You're going to kill me. You're going to kill me, man.
UNKNOWN: Brother, you can see he's (Inaudible).
UNKNOWN: His nose is bleeding. Like, come on now.
UNKNOWN: Again, that's wrong to put your knee on his neck.
(CROSSTALK)
UNKNOWN: Look at his nose.
UNKNOWN: You've got your knee right on his neck, officer.
FLOYD: I cannot breathe.
UNKNOWN: Easy, bro. Easy. You are such a tough guy. You are a tough guy, huh.
UNKNOWN: As he is a guy tough, He's not even resisting arrest.
UNKNOWN: His whole nose is bleeding.
UNKNOWN: Did you (Inaudible) with him?
UNKNOWN: Get up, get him in your car. FLOYD: Don't kill me. Don't kill me. I can't breathe.
UNKNOWN: How long do you need to hold him down?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:09:56]
LEMON (on camera): I saw today, for the first time in months since last summer. And every time, it's like the first time. I don't know about you, but all I kept saying was, OK, enough. Like you can take your -- even though you know what happens in the end, as you are watching that video, I think we all have the same reaction, OK, OK, OK, OK, take your -- you can take it off his neck now. Let the man breathe.
It is so hard to watch that video, but we just can't look away from it. That is not justice, that's not the escalation, that's now a police officer supposed to do, you know that. Not when this man, not when George Floyd was dying in the street with a police officer's knee on his neck, you can't look away 9 minutes and 29 seconds while George Floyd was fighting for every last breath.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY BLACKWELL, SPECIAL ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: You will learn what happened in that 9 minutes and 29 seconds, the most important numbers you will hear in this trial, 9, 29, what happened in those 9 minutes and 29 seconds when Mr. Derek Chauvin was applying this excessive force to the body of Mr. George Floyd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Derek Chauvin kept his knee on George Floyd's neck for 4 minutes and 45 seconds as Floyd cried out for help. He kept his knee on George Floyd's neck for another 53 seconds as he suffered seizures, he kept his knee on George Floyd's neck for another 3 minutes and 51 seconds even though he was non responsive.
Nine, 29, nine, 29. The prosecuting attorney, Jerry Blackwell, telling jurors who saw that horrible video, believe your eyes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: I will tell you can believe your eyes that it's a homicide, it's murder, you can believe your eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Telling jurors Derek Chauvin betrayed his badge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: You will learn that on May 25th of 2020, Mr. Derek Chauvin betrayed this badge when he used excessive and unreasonable force upon the body of Mr. George Floyd. That he put his knees upon his neck and his back, grinding and crushing him until the very breath, now ladies and gentlemen, until the very life was squeezed out of him.
You will learn that he was well aware that Mr. Floyd was unarmed, that Mr. Floyd had not threaten anyone, that Mr. Floyd was in handcuffs, he was completely in the control of the police. He was defenseless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Telling jurors a 911 dispatcher was so disturbed by what happened she called the police on the police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLACKWELL: You will learn that there was a 911 dispatcher, her name is Jena Scurry. Jena Scurry is going to come to talk to you also, there was a fix police camera that was trained on this particular scene, and she could see through the camera what was going on. You will learn that what she saw was so unusual, and for her so disturbing, I'm sure so disturbing that she did something that she had never done in her career.
She called the police on the police, a 911 dispatcher. She called Sergeant David Ploeger, who's going to come in to testify, she called him to report what she saw because she found that just that disturbing she will tell you that she felt that she saw a man literally lose his is life. And that you will hear her testify.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): He played her phone call to a sergeant saying call me a snitch is you want to.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
JENA SCURRY, MINNEAPOLIS 911 DISPATCHER: You can call me a snitch if you want to but we have the cameras up for 320s call, did they ever put him in (Inaudible) body, and 3, 20 over at Cup Foods.
UNKNOWN: OK.
SCURRY: I don't know if they had use force or not. They got something to back up the squad and all of them sat on this man, so I don't know if they needed you or not that they haven't said anything to me yet.
(END VOICE CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): Then the dramatic moment when that 911 dispatcher took the stand to say she knew something was wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCURRY: My instincts were telling me that something is wrong, something is not right, I don't know what but something wasn't right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): That as a defense tried to blame the victim, claiming George Floyd died of drug use and coronary disease.
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[22:15:00]
ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE LAWYER: The evidence will show that Mr. Floyd died of a cardiac arrythmia that occurred as a result of hypertension, his coronary disease, the ingestion of methamphetamine and fentanyl and the adrenaline flowing -- flowing through his body. All which acted to further compromise an already compromise heart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): That, even though the fact is that the county medical examiner's autopsy listed George Floyd's cause of death as heart failure due to quote, "law enforcement subdual restraints and neck compression," and ruled it a homicide.
Defense attorney Eric Nelson also seeming to try to blame the crowd that gathered, even though the people in that crowd were trying to get police to get off George Floyd's neck. Even though Derek Chauvin stayed on his neck, stayed on his neck with a crowd yelling let the man up! With him screaming, I can't breathe! Nine, 29, that's how much time that was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NELSON: There are cars stopping, people yelling, there are -- there is a growing crowd and what officers to perceived to be a threat, they are screaming at him, causing the officers to divert their attention from the care of Mr. Floyd to the threat that was growing in front of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): I thank you for your time, for those 10 minutes that you gave me your attention because that's about how long it's been since I've started the open to the show. Now imagine that you're on the ground, or your loved one is on the ground for that long? Already subdued by police.
So, the testimony is set to resume tomorrow morning after court was forced to adjourn when a technical glitch interrupted a video feed in other rooms in the courthouse where family members were watching, the country, the world watching this trial just like we watched that horrible video of George Floyd's last moments.
The video that brought millions and millions of people out into the streets of America cities last summer demanding justice. Black, brown, white, old, young, gay, straight, millions of Americans who saw what happened to George Floyd and Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor and so many more.
Millions of Americans demanding justice. President Joe Biden watching the trial closely. Just like millions of us, it reminds me of another trial that everyone was had -- was on the edge of their seats watching. And that's the trial of O.J. Simpson, that was back in 1995.
Now almost 26 years later, we are on the edge of our seats over another trial putting America's racial divide into very sharp focus. And it's happening as a country is having a racial reckoning, as we're having some deep conversations about race in every part of American life, as the voting rights to people of color are under assault, as people like those protesters are calling out for justice.
George Floyd's brother Terrence Floyd saying this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRENCE FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD'S BROTHER: They always say trust the system, trust the system, we got you, you know, you're going to receive justice. Well to me and my family, this is the time now to show us and prove to us that we are going to get justice, and we deserve it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): In this program tonight we're going to talk to another of George Floyd's brothers, Philonise, along with the family attorney Benjamin Crump. But as this trial goes on, you're going to see that video of the last moments of George Floyd again and again, nine minutes 28 seconds. It's hard to watch, even now, even after most of us -- most of us have seen it before.
It doesn't get easier. hard to hear the testimony about the last moment of George Floyd's life, second by second. If you're having trouble dealing with it, speak up and ask for help. I have been giving you these numbers for a while now because we all need help in this moment. So many of us.
You can call the Anxiety and Depressions Association America at 1-240- 4 -- 240-485-1001. 1-240-485-1001. The National Alliance on Mental Illness at 1-800-950-Nami, or 6264.
[22:19:59]
The Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Or the Association of Black Psychologists at 1-301-449-3082.
Again, thank you for paying attention, your undivided attention for 10 minutes. And I hope you'll give it to me for the rest of the time that I'm on the air tonight. We have so much to talk about as a country, about unity, what we need to do in these situations. How we correct this problem.
As hard as it is for all of us to watch that video, imagine what it is like for George Floyd's family to see his last moments and to know that Derek Chauvin was on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds. Philonise Floyd was in that courtroom today and I'm going to talk to him along with the family attorney, Benjamin Crump, they are next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON (on camera): Nine minutes, 29 seconds, that's how long Derek Chauvin's knee was on George Floyd's neck. Prosecutors laying out the excruciating details of George Floyd's final moments and calling their first three witnesses in the trial of ex-officer Derek Chauvin.
Prosecutors asking the jury to believe their eyes while the defense tries to argue it's about more than what we see and hear on the videos.
So, joining me now to discuss is George Floyd's brother, Philonise Floyd who is in the courtroom today, and Benjamin Crump, the attorney for the Floyd family.
Gentlemen, thank you so much. Good evening to both of you. I know it's a tough time.
[22:24:58]
So Philonise, I'm going to start with you. Because it had to be excruciating to watch as prosecutors play that video of your brother's death, 9 minutes and 29 seconds long. I have to ask you, what was it like the first day of you having to relive this? I'm sorry you had to, but I mean, I'm sorry I have to ask you that question, but please talk to me about it.
PHILONISE FLOYD, GEORGE FLOYD'S BROTHER: It was an emotional day. Sitting there, watching my brother, being tortured to death. Screaming for our mom, talking about his kids. It was just devastating. It was a tragedy that should never have happened. Hopefully, we get justice, and so other families will understand what's going on. Because there's a lot of families that want us to have justice, because they didn't justice.
LEMON: Ben, you know, this video is as powerful as it is excruciating. Right? I mean, his -- and Chauvin's defense strategy is to say that other factors, his health, drug use, are responsible for George's death. Are you concerned that they were trying to put George on trial, instead of Derek Chauvin?
BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR FLOYD FAMILY: Well, Don, you know, that's the playbook. That's what they have done to so many people of color who were unjustifiably killed by police. Assassinate their character so it can be a distraction for the excessive use of force that they did. And that's exactly what they are doing here. We anticipated it, and then they did it.
But Don, it went to a new level. Not only did they say, it was because they trace amount of drugs in George Floyd's system, or some health condition that nobody knew of, but today, you heard them as to try to blame the bystanders. The people who were saying, get your knee off his neck. They tried to say, they were part of the reason why the police kept his knee on his neck. The reason Derek Chauvin kept his knee on George Floyd's neck is because he lacks humanity.
LEMON: They are also claiming, Ben, that the officer, that officer Chauvin was doing exactly what he was trained to do. How do you respond to that?
CRUMP: Well, you know, the state did a good job today in telegraphing their case. They say, you are going to hear the police chief, himself, Don, come in court and testify that that was inappropriate. Now how often have we ever seen a police chief come and testify against one of their officers in a criminal trial? I don't believe I've ever seen it, but that speaks to how strong this case is.
And with all of that evidence in the video, and the chief justified, we still cannot take for granted that a police officer would be convicted of killing a Black person unjustifiably. This is a referendum if America is finally going to give black people equality and justice that is guaranteed by the United States Constitution.
LEMON: You know, Philonise, we heard today from the 911 dispatcher who saw what happened at real-time flagged -- and flagged it to the supervising sergeant saying that, you can call me a snitch if you want, but she told her, you know, she ran it up the chain anyways, basically calling the police on the police. What was your reaction when you heard that, Philonise?
P. FLOYD: She was doing her job. She did what she was supposed to do, when the people call, and when she's seen that things weren't going right, she went on to say, hey, let me call your sergeant.
I need to get this man's knee off his neck because he shouldn't have been doing that. It was four officers over there and they were killing someone. And they came there to help somebody, but they were sworn in to protect, but they were killing people. That's sad, man.
LEMON: Yes. Well, I mean, she said, I thought there was -- the camera had malfunctioned or frozen, because he was sitting there, right, with his knee on the neck. Philonise, I have to ask you, because, you know, many people are viewing this as a test for the justice system here. Your brother Terrence, saying today that if they want people to trust the system, this is a chance to show it. Do you agree with them?
P. FLOYD: I totally agree with them. My brother is not on trial. Chauvin is on trial. America is on trial right now. Minneapolis, Minnesota, they would have to get this right. We're tired of people being killed and slaughtered for anything.
I'm not anti-police but there's been a lot of killing by police officers. and not just in Minneapolis, all across America, we will get justice, we have to get justice, because if you can't get justice for this as a Black man in America, what can you get justice for an American then?
[22:30:07]
CRUMP: Yes.
LEMON: Philonise, thank you. Ben, thank you. We'll be watching, and you know you guys are welcome to come on anytime to discuss what's happening. We appreciate it.
Thank you. Thank you.
Compelling testimony from witnesses in the first day of the Chauvin trial including from an eyewitness, an MMA fighter who says he was alarmed by what he saw on the street that they.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON (on camera): While the prosecutor in Derek Chauvin's murder trial saying the ex-police officer betrayed his badge by using excessive and unreasonable force that squeezed the life of George Floyd. Playing the full video showing Chauvin's kneeling on Floyd's neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds and telling jurors quote, "it's homicide, you can believe your eyes."
So, let's discuss this now with CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, and Cedric Alexander, former president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives. Gentlemen, I'm so glad to have you on.
[22:34:58]
It was, it was a tough day especially watching that video and listening to some of the testimony. Bakari, I'm going to start with you. Prosecutors began the trial with that graphic video evidence of George Floyd's death ended with powerful testimony from an eyewitness, a mixed martial artist fighter. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD WYNN WILLIAMS, WITNESS: The more that his knee was luckily on his neck and shimmy as it was going on, the more you seeing Floyd fade away, slowly fade away. And like a fish in a bag. You see his eyes slowly, you know, parallel and again, slowly roll to the back of his eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, Bakari he's talking about when Chauvin appears to be digging his knee into George's neck. The jury left with, with his -- with that in their minds, how do you think that went today?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean you can't really look at a jury trial on one day, and I know that we're going to be so invested each day of this trial. There are going to be moments that people go up, and people go down emotionally, I can't believe the prosecution didn't say this, or the defense said this.
But at the end of this trial, I mean, the jury will get all of this evidence. This is going to be a very, very, very small piece of the puzzle. And for those people watching, I know you -- mean you, Don, we talk about this all the time and even Cedric, you know, you get to the point where it's -- you know, people say, you know, don't -- you can't believe your lying eyes. Right?
And people don't want you to believe what you see on video, the murder that you see on video. And there's going to be a lot of things thrown at these jurors. And today was just day one, and it's going to be extremely hard to get a guilty verdict. Even with everything that we know to be true. Even with the video that we've seen, and just in the history of this country, it doesn't lend one to believe that there can be a guilty verdict when a police officer kills a Black man even in cold blood.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, I want to tell viewers, Bakari is not just saying that that to say, he knows he's an attorney. I think it's important to point out that Bakari Sellers is actually an attorney so he knows what he's talking about.
So Cedric, listen, the defense argue that Derek Chauvin did exactly what he had to -- had been trained to do. Do you believe Chauvin followed police training? When should use of force end?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all, let me say this. I've been around on law enforcement a very long time, Don. And nowhere in this United States of America that I'm aware of, that that procedure that we taught so that Chauvin took against George Floyd on that particular day is being taught anywhere in the past, in the present, and certainly not into the future.
So, I seriously doubt that, that that was training anywhere inside a police officer standard in training state institutions such as Minnesota where that was taught as a technique to subdue someone. I seriously, seriously doubt that.
LEMON: Bakari, the --
SELLERS: Don?
LEMON: Yes, go ahead, Bakari.
SELLERS: Don, can I comment on that really quick.
LEMON: Yes.
SELLERS: I mean, I agree. But this is one of the fundamental problems we had, is that we do not have a standardize use of force guidelines throughout the country. And so, yes, we may doubt that it's being taught in Minnesota but we just don't know. We don't know what's being taught in jurisdictions big or small, throughout the country.
People can be getting MMA training here or chokehold training there. I mean, it's just, it's so mismatched. That's why one of the things that people have been asking for when you talk about criminal justice reform, is this standardize use of force. So that we can actually know what law enforcement is being trained to do.
Now in this case, I know the police chief is going to come out and say for the prosecutions that we did not train him to do that. But just ask yourself, I mean, most people watching tonight do not know how their law enforcement of the municipality they're in are trained. They don't know what they can legally do and what they can't do. I think that's a problem and I think that's something that cory Booker and Rand Paul, and criminal justice reform advocates throughout the country are pushing for.
LEMON: Cedric, I want to talk about the defense arguing that the officers perceived the growing crowd as angry and a threat. You saw the crowd in the videos, some of them released today. How do you see that?
ALEXANDER: Well, that is not an ignorant crowd, that was a crowd that was just merely concerned about something that they saw was very wrong taking place in front of them. They saw a man who is being held on the ground, they saw a man with a knee in his neck, a man that was begging for his mother, a man that was gasping for air, and it gave the appearance that almost subsequently he went out totally unconscious.
So what you had on that corner, was conscientious citizens, citizens who did not at any time from the video that any of us witnessed threaten officers to do harm to them, or anything. They were just passersby, who saw something taking place very wrong because they had something that Chauvin did not have.
[22:40:02]
They had a conscience, they had a moral compass, they had humanity in which they live by. And they were just merely concerned.
But I want to go back to something Bakari just said just a moment ago. And Bakari is absolutely correct. There is no national standard. We've got 50 states in the United States, and in these states, certainly each state has their post certifications. Many of them are very similar.
But like Bakari says the general public really has no idea of what they are, and what those standards consist of. And I've been saying for years even though in my tenure as a chief, that's something that we have to expose to our public, hear the technique that we use under the circumstances so people were aware. But there needs to be a federal standardized standard that cuts across all 50 states.
LEMON: I think that, listen, I think that people should look at that video. There's one thing where you said that the crowd never pose a threat to the officers, or they never threatened the officers. If you -- there's one point in the video where someone is taking the video, and Derek Chauvin, I think pulls out mace.
So he has his knee on the neck of George Floyd, and then someone with a video camera he's actually threatening them with mace. That just kind of shows you the attitude of the officer at the time. That with impunity, going to do what he wants to do.
SELLERS: Yes.
LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you. We'll be talking over time.
SELLERS: Thank you.
LEMON: I appreciate both of you coming on. I'll see you soon. So Trump bashing Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx after comments they made in a
CNN documentary. And the former president's attack are beyond demeaning.
[22:45:00]
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LEMON (on camera): Former President Trump out with a statement attacking his former COVID task force officials, Dr. Anthony Fauci, and Dr. Deborah Birx both speaking out about the president's handling of the pandemic in a new CNN documentary.
In this smear, Trump calls Fauci and Birx self-promoters trying to reinvent history. Trump even pits the two against each other saying, and I'm quoting here, "Dr. Birx is a proven liar with very little credibility left. Many of her recommendations were viewed as pseudoscience, and Dr. Fauci would always talk negatively about her, and in fact, would ask not to be in the same room with her."
So, let's discuss now with CNN's chief political correspondent Dana Bash, she is also the co-host of State of the Union. Dana, thank you very much.
I mean, listen this is about really the number of people who died, the millions of people who got sick over the course -- the hundreds of thousands of millions -- over the course of this the last president. But wouldn't -- wouldn't we be surprised if he didn't actually say something negative if he didn't trash them after they spoke out and were candid about their time? You know what I mime? It's just, it's just, it's so Donald Trump.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's so Donald Trump in every way, particularly the, you know, I know you are but what am I kind of tone of the lengthy statement that he put out tonight. But you know, the thing that he doesn't really get at in his statement is the heart of what Dr. Birx said to Sanjay in this extraordinary special that he had on last night. Which is about the deaths, as you said, Don.
And, you know, we are at an unbelievable number, more than half a million. And she said, had the Trump administration handled it differently, then after 100,000 deaths it could have been mitigated. So, we're talking about, you know, more than 40,000 people potentially who would still be alive, potentially would still be alive if the administration then had handled it differently.
You know look, she's getting criticism, others are too for trying to, you know, protect their legacy. Which you know, even as Sanjay has said in and around this documentary is understandable. But it doesn't change the fact that they are revealing things that happened inside the administration. A lot of it, we reported on it at CNN and other news organizations real-time.
LEMON (on camera): Yes, there is this moment in the CNN documentary where Birx talks about being called by Trump. After an interview with you where she warned of another COVID surge. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEBORAH BIRX, FORMER COORDINATOR, WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS TASK FORCE: I got called by the president.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: What did he say?
BIRX; Well, I think you've heard other conversations that people have posted with the president, I would say it was even more direct than what people have heard. It was very uncomfortable, very direct and very difficult to hear.
GUPTA: Where you threatened?
BIRX: I would say it was a very uncomfortable conversation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): So, Dana, in the new statement Trump says that there was no very difficult phone call but we know the former president has a history of lying.
BASH: That's right. And you know, this was after the interview that I did on State of the Union with Dr. Birx back in August. There were two or three days of news coverage, first and foremost about what she said, because she was admitting the truth and admitting the reality of what people were seeing, that at that time there was widespread damage being done.
And the virus was widespread even more at that point than when it first hit the U.S. in March. But because she was candid about it, because she hadn't been out that point very much talking about those things, and then the days afterwards there was coverage again, real- time reporting by CNN reporters and others about the fact that the president was really angry at her.
[22:50:01]
And you know, again, it just goes to show how -- how things were then, and how stifled these medical professionals felt. And that was the reality that they were dealing with, a lot of criticism. Again, in the wake of this documentary saying that they should have come out, maybe they should have quit, maybe they should have, you know, stood up and said, you know what, enough already.
Bu they, as they told Sanjay, they made a decision that it was better for them to stay and, you know, try to steer the ship in the right way as opposed to just leaving.
LEMON: Well, Dana, we love having you on this program giving your perspective and we love watching you on Sundays as well in State of the Union, thank you so much. I'll see you soon.
BASH: Back at you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you.
Republicans across the country engaging in an all-out assault on voting rights, and you won't believe what Senator Lindsey Graham is saying trying to defend it.
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LEMON (on camera): Take this. Republican Senator Lindsey Graham getting defensive as the backlash grows over the GOP's nationwide effort to pass laws restricting voting. He says critics including President Biden are playing the race card.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): You know what's sick, is have the President of the United States to play the race card continuously in such a hypocritical way. So, every time a Republican does anything, we are racist. If you're white conservative, you are racist.
If you are a Black Republican, you're either a prop or Uncle Tom. They used the racism card to advance a liberal agenda and we're tired of it, H.R. is sick, not what they're doing in Georgia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): My gosh, I mean, it's unbelievable. You almost have to ask who the victim is here? Calling out policies that hurt people of color especially at the polls, that's not playing the race card. And listen how Senator Graham pushed back on calls to bans assault weapon after the deadly mass shootings in Colorado and Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRAHAM: I own AR-15, if there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to because I can defend myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON (on camera): I'm sure you get the racial undertones of Graham's game of violent scare tactics. But his defense for owning an assault rifle is what? What is his defense? Being the victim of a hypothetical disaster ending in a mad max style gang shootout? That's a new one.
And it makes you wonder, is Senator Graham focused on solving the big problems that are happening right now? Mass shootings, fear in minority communities, equal access to the polls? Because right there, that doomsday comment he seems very focused on protecting himself.
Nine minutes 29 seconds, prosecutors revealing how long ex-officer Derek Chauvin knelt on George Floyd's neck. Everything that happened in day one of the trial, that's next.
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