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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Derek Chauvin Trial Continues; Firefighter: Police Wouldn't Let Me Check George Floyd's Condition. Aired 4:30-5p ET
Aired March 30, 2021 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:30:00]
GENEVIEVE CLARA HANSEN, MINNEAPOLIS FIREFIGHTER: Yes, I'm in walking distance of that area.
MATTHEW FRANK, MINNESOTA PROSECUTOR: OK.
And so, on that date in the early evening, just what were you out doing that you found yourself in that area?
HANSEN: I was just going for a walk. I believe I worked the day before. So, a lot of times, you're just kind of tired. And I just wanted to sort of have a peaceful day.
So, I went on a walk, and I sat in a little community garden on 38th for a while and just thought it would getting kind of dark soon, so I decided to take Chicago home, rather than go through neighborhood streets.
FRANK: Do you remember, were you on foot or in your car?
HANSEN: I was on foot.
FRANK: And so you approached Cup Foods on Chicago?
HANSEN: Yes, sir.
FRANK: And, well, as you were approaching that area, did something catch your attention?
HANSEN: Mm-hmm.
It's not uncommon to see lights and things and think that, oh, my co- workers are there. So, from a distance, I figured it could have been anything. But I figured that fire was there. So I started walking that direction. And as I got closer, there was a woman across the street screaming that they were killing him.
So, that's when I was alerted that the situation wasn't a basic medical call.
FRANK: So, at some point, did you walk through the area where this woman was?
HANSEN: Yes. I actually asked her what was going on. FRANK: And then, from there, did you notice some police cars in the
area?
HANSEN: Mm-hmm.
FRANK: Yes?
HANSEN: Yes, sir.
FRANK: And did you then walk over to that area where the police cars were?
HANSEN: I walked...
FRANK: Police car.
HANSEN: Yes, I walked kind of in a big circle around the scene just to sort of start to have an idea of what was actually going on.
FRANK: And so you approached this police car where the incident was taking place?
HANSEN: Yes, I came from behind the officers.
FRANK: And I'm going to show you exhibit one on the screen.
HANSEN: OK.
FRANK: It should come up on the screen right in front of you.
HANSEN: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (OFF-MIKE)
FRANK: Yes, sir, this has been admitted already.
Do you see the photograph of Exhibit 1 in front of you?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: And you recognize this as the intersection of 38th and Chicago?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: And you will notice in front of you there should be a little stylus like this. And you can actually draw on the screen with that.
HANSEN: OK.
FRANK: And I would ask you just to kind of draw on there for the jury your approach to this area and where you went until you went over by the squad car.
HANSEN: OK. So, the garden was on this side of the street. I'm not sure if I
walked across or straight. But the woman that I first asked what was going on was just about here. So, I made my way around, and I believe I came all the way around this way. And I was kind of watching what was going on here. And then I made my way around.
FRANK: And then, just for the benefit of the record, you're drawing that you were going westbound on 38th, and then crossed over to the Dragon Wok side of 38th. And that's where you crossed Chicago and crossed 38th to the Speedway store, and, from there, crossed over to the Cup Foods side of Chicago.
HANSEN: Yes, sir.
FRANK: All right.
And -- your Honor, can you erase that all in one fell swoop?
And then -- so, when you crossed from the Speedway side of the store -- well, let me do it this way.
No, I will back up.
Why did you bother to walk then from the Speedway side of the store over the Cup Foods side of the store?
HANSEN: Because I was concerned to see a handcuffed man who was not moving with officers with their whole body wait on his back and a crowd that was stressed out.
[16:35:13]
FRANK: And so we have -- we have previously admitted Exhibit 11.
And this is a video taken from a camera across the street. And I'm going to show you a shortened version of Exhibit 11, all right?
HANSEN: Mm-hmm.
FRANK: Is that yes?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: All right.
And for the record, we are starting this at 8:25:20 approximately. So, do you see that video on the screen?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: All right. And does this look like the area that we are talking about where you went and approached this scene you described?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: All right, now, I'm asking to pause it right here. HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: And looking at this, do you see this person I'm circling here?
HANSEN: That's myself, yes.
FRANK: OK.
And if -- everybody was seeing you approach from down here, correct? You came this way; is that right?
HANSEN: Correct, yes.
FRANK: All right. So you came from the bottom of this screen to this area.
And you seem to be holding something into your hand. Do you recall what you were holding?
HANSEN: I didn't have anything but my phone, I believe, or my keys.
FRANK: And so what I would like to do is let this run to show where you were during this incident, all right? So, just keeping an eye on where you are...
HANSEN: OK.
FRANK: ... and how you remain at the scene, all right?
HANSEN: OK.
FRANK: OK.
Now, if we can pause it right here -- and, just for the record, it's 8:26:29 -- we saw the camera moved a little bit, correct?
HANSEN: Mm-hmm. Yes.
FRANK: And so, for a moment there, you were just off-screen, correct?
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: And up until that point, you had essentially remained on the sidewalk, correct?
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: And so, at that point, you stepped off the curb. Did you -- how far from the curb did you go when you were off the screen?
HANSEN: I don't remember.
FRANK: OK.
You didn't leave the area?
HANSEN: No.
FRANK: OK.
And at that moment, you go back up onto the sidewalk. Do you remember why you went back up onto the sidewalk?
HANSEN: Because the officer controlling the scene was requesting that we stay on the sidewalk -- demanding we stay on the sidewalk.
FRANK: And, if you could, just take the stylus and circle the officer that you're saying commanded you stay on the sidewalk.
And for the record, Your Honor, the witness is drawing a circle around Officer Thao.
And so when he asked you to go back up to the sidewalk, you did?
HANSEN: Yes, sir.
FRANK: And, at some point, you started a video recording with your fun, correct?
HANSEN: Mm-hmm. Yes.
FRANK: And so we have already dealt with that, but, at some point, you actually start recording, correct?
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: All right.
Can we continue?
[16:40:12]
FRANK: And, Ms. Hansen, did you -- well, I'm sorry.
I'm going to hold off on another question for now.
I'm going to ask that the video be paused here at -- for the record, at 8:30:25 -- 26, to be more precise.
The video is showing that the ambulance has left with Mr. Floyd, and you're still standing there on the sidewalk, correct?
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: So, during that time period after you first arrived and went up on the sidewalk, there was just that one time that you left the sidewalk and went out into the street, correct?
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: All right.
When you first walked up you told the jury about coming around and crossing Chicago and approaching. When you first walked up, did you observe the officers that were on top of the individual on the ground?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: Did you know any of those officers or recognize any of them?
HANSEN: Once I was all the way around, I recognized their -- Chauvin's face.
FRANK: OK.
And where did you recognize it from?
HANSEN: It was a call probably the day before. I believe it was the shift I had just worked.
FRANK: Did you know him at all?
HANSEN: No, sir.
FRANK: Did you talk to him on that previous call, or...
HANSEN: No, sir.
I just noticed him because I had observed him on that previous call.
FRANK: Did you know his name at that point in time?
HANSEN: No, sir.
FRANK: All right.
So, what did you see about the officers there in relation to the body on the ground?
HANSEN: I noticed a leaning -- that the officers were leaning over his body, and with -- it must have -- it appeared to be the majority of their weight on Mr. Floyd.
[16:45:16]
FRANK: And so how many officers did you see over Mr. Floyd?
HANSEN: In my memory for whatever reason, I remember seeing four on his body and we know now that that was three.
FRANK: So when you first walked up, you came around from that side but then you had to go around the other side on to the curb, both sides of the squad car, direct?
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: Right. And when you saw that positioning of those officers did that concern you?
HANSEN: Absolutely.
FRANK: Why?
HANSEN: He wasn't moving and he was cuffed and that's -- three grown men is a lot of putting all their weight on somebody. It's too much.
FRANK: And did you notice where this officer you now know to be Mr. Chauvin, where he was putting his weight on Mr. Floyd?
HANSEN: On his neck.
FRANK: And incidentally, did you know the person laying on the ground, prone on the ground who was handcuffed?
HANSEN: No, not -- no, sir.
FRANK: You subsequently learned his identity?
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: And that individual on the ground under the officers, could you tell if he was moving at all?
HANSEN: I -- he was not moving. His face was -- the first thing that concerned me is his face was like smacked -- smushed into the ground, swollen, appearing swollen to me.
FRANK: And, you know, at that point are you acting a little bit as Genevieve Hansen the EMT?
HANSEN: I identified myself right away because I -- I noticed that he needed medical attention. It didn't take me long to realize that he was -- that he had an altered level of consciousness, and in our training that is when -- the first time that somebody needs medical attention. So my attention moved from Mr. Floyd to how can I gain access to this patient and give him medical attention or direct the officers, and I didn't pay much attention to George Floyd after that.
FRANK: So when you first got there and you saw Mr. Floyd on the ground, you mentioned about seeing his face, correct?
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: And incidentally I think in a subsequent interview you had talked about Mr. Floyd's face facing towards the speedway, correct?
HANSEN: Which is what my memory did and we know that's not right.
FRANK: Now as we sit here today do you remember seeing his face when you were around on the squad car side of him.
HANSEN: Yes, sir.
FRANK: So in terms his face when you were first there or even the rest of him, what is it that you saw that made you concerned about his medical needs?
HANSEN: I was really can concerned about -- I thought I his face looked puffy and swollen which would happen if you were putting a grown man's weight on someone's neck. I noticed some fluid coming from what hooked like George Floyd's body, and in a lot of cases we see a patient release their bladder when they die. I can't tell you exactly where the flow was coming from but that's where my mind went.
He wasn't moving. He was being restrained but he wasn't moving.
FRANK: When you first arrived, was he vocalizing at all? Was he speaking at all?
HANSEN: I don't remember.
FRANK: Okay.
And earlier you used the term altered cautiousness.
HANSEN: Mm-hmm.
FRANK: Is that yes?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: And what do you mean by that? What did you see in terms of his consciousness?
HANSEN: Well, we -- when we're assessing a level of cautiousness on a call, we'll often first try to just talk to the patient and see if they respond, and if we don't get a response, we'll often kind of tap him on the shoulder or apply sort of painful stimuli.
[16:50:07]
nd often I would do a sternal rub or, you know, press their fingernail very hard and if they respond to that, we know that, you know, we can assess their level of consciousness based on that.
When somebody is laying on you, you know, leaning into your neck that's painful stimuli, so I could tell that from the sidewalk.
FRANK: Tell what.
HANSEN: That he had an altered level of consciousness to the level that he wasn't responding to painful stimuli.
FRANK: You mention that had Mr. Chauvin had a knee on Mr. Floyd's neck.
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: Did you see where his other leg was?
HANSEN: I don't remember anymore, but I think -- I may have said something about it in previous --
FRANK: Did you think it was on Mr. Floyd's back? I don't know.
HANSEN: Okay.
FRANK: And in that moment that you first arrived, observed what you could about Mr. Floyd, what did you think you needed to do?
HANSEN: I -- I had already assess that had he had an altered level of consciousness. What I need to know is whether or not he had a pulse anymore.
FRANK: And -- you know, let me back up just a little bit here. But did you try it assess how much weight Mr. Chauvin was putting on George Floyd?
HANSEN: I mean, I didn't try to. I recognized that it was an issue right away because he seemed very comfortable, you -- with --
FRANK: Who is he?
HANSEN: Chauvin, Officer Chauvin.
FRANK: Okay.
HANSEN: Seemed very comfortable with the majority of his weight balanced on top of Mr. Floyd's neck. In my memory, he had his hand in his pocket he looked so comfortable.
FRANK: And -- and if his hand wasn't actually in his pocket, would that change anything that you assessed at the time?
HANSEN: I suppose not. He -- he was comfortable in the position that he was in?
FRANK: So if his hand instead of being in his pocket was simply resting on his thigh works that change any of your assessment?
HANSEN: He wasn't distributing the weight on the car, on the pavement.
FRANK: When you first approached you said you identified yourself as a firefighter.
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: To whom did you identify yourself?
HANSEN: To Officer Thao on the scene. I spoke loudly enough that I think the other three officers would have been able to hear me throughout the event.
FRANK: And we know you weren't -- well, let me ask you this way. How did Officer Thao respond?
HANSEN: He said something along the lines of if you really are a Minneapolis firefighter, you would know better than to get involved.
FRANK: What did you think of that? HANSEN: First, I was worried that he wasn't going to believe me. And
not let me help, and I also -- that's not right. I mean, that's exactly what I should have done. There was no medical assistance on scene and I got there and I could have given medical assistance. That's exactly what I should have done.
FRANK: So based on your training and experience and what you had seen, what did you want to do for this person on the ground?
HANSEN: Had they let me into the scene, I -- I already had decided what his level of consciousness was so I would have requested additional help. I would have wanted someone to call 911 for the paramedics and fire to come.
I would have asked someone to run to the gas station and look for an AED, and I would have checked his -- I would have checked his airway. I would have been worried about his -- a spinal cord injury because he had so much weight on his neck. I would have opened his airway to check for any obstructions, and I would have checked for a pulse.
And when I didn't found a pulse, in that was the case, I would have started compressions. And I didn't have my med (ph) bag, so I would have continued compressions.
[16:50:02]
We don't do -- we don't give mouth-to-mouth anymore. So I would have continued compressions at the rate of 100 a minute until help arrived.
FRANK: And by compressions, what do you mean?
HANSEN: I would have put my hands -- stacked my hands and pressed hits chest.
FRANK: Chest compressions?
HANSEN: Chest compressions, correct. Yeah.
FRANK: Yeah. And what's the point of doing chest compressions?
HANSEN: Pumping -- pumping the blood for somebody that's not doing that themselves, trying to get a pulse back.
FRANK: And were you able to do that, any of those steps?
HANSEN: No, sir.
FRANK: Why weren't you able to do any of that?
HANSEN: Because the officers didn't let me in to the scene. I also offered -- in my memory, I offered to kind of walk them through that or told them if he doesn't have a pulse you need to start compressions, and that wasn't done either.
FRANK: And so when -- well, is this -- are these things that you wanted to do? HANSEN: It would -- it's what I would have done for anybody.
FRANK: When you couldn't do that, how did that make you feel?
HANSEN: Totally distressed.
FRANK: Were you frustrated?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: Miss Hansen, you know, as I told you, you can take your time. So feel free to just take a minute. If you need a drink of water, go ahead.
HANSEN: Okay.
FRANK: While you were there, were there other people around you on the sidewalk?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: And were they saying things to the officers as well?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: And do you remember what kinds of things they were saying?
HANSEN: No, I was pretty focused on trying to get the officers to let me help.
FRANK: And how were you doing that, trying to get officers to focus on you and getting help.
HANSEN: I think in my memory, I tried different tactics of calm and reasoning. I tried to be assertive. I pled and was desperate.
FRANK: Did you also at some point start raising your voice?
HANSEN: Yes, sir.
FRANK: And maybe used some foul language even?
HANSEN: Yes, sir.
FRANK: Why?
HANSEN: Because I was desperate to help and I wasn't getting what I -- what I needed to do in gaining access.
FRANK: At some point, the voices of the other people around you, did you feel that sort of interfered with getting the officer's attention?
HANSEN: Yes.
FRANK: So as you're doing that, were you able to pay more attention or any more attention to Mr. Floyd and his condition? HANSEN: I wasn't -- I wasn't really able to. I knew he needed help so
at that point, it was just getting in there.
FRANK: When you asked the officers to take his pulse, did you ever see them doing that?
HANSEN: No.
FRANK: When you were over on the sidewalk at Officer Thao's direction, were you able to see the other two officers on Mr. Floyd?
HANSEN: From my memory just kind of their heads.
FRANK: So at some point, they may have checked a pulse you may not have seen that.
HANSEN: Correct.
FRANK: All right.
During this time, did you make any notes or observations about Mr. Floyd's characteristics of his breathing? That was a terrible question. Do you want me to start over?
HANSEN: Yes, sir.
FRANK: During the incident when you were there, did you make some observations of sort of the characteristics of Mr. Floyd's breathing that concerned you?
HANSEN: I don't remember anymore?
FRANK: Okay.
What is meant by the term agonal breath or agonal breaths?
HANSEN: Agonal gasps we see those in patients that are dying or pretty much dead. It's just --
