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Lawyers Argue Over George Floyd's Words On Drug Use; CNN: Taliban Twice Targeted One Of The Most Heavily Guarded Bases In Afghanistan, U.S. Military Personnel Came Under Fire; Vaccine Passports Become Politically Complicated. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 08, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:30:00]

ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Floyd's voice.

(INAUDIBLE)

NELSON: Did you hear that?

JAMES REYERSON, MINNESOTA LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENT: Yes, I did.

NELSON: Did it appear that Mr. Floyd said, I ate too many drugs?

REYERSON: Yes, it did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm assuming so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He won't get out of the car.

(INAUDIBLE)

GEORGE FLOYD, KILLED DURING AN ARREST: Please. Please. Please, I can't breathe.

MATTHEW FRANK, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Having heard it in context that you're able to tell what Mr. Floyd is saying there?

REYERSON: Yes, I believe Mr. Floyd was saying, I ain't do no drugs.

FRANK: So it's a little different than what you were asked about when you only saw a portion of the video, correct?

REYERSON: Yes, Sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Joining us now CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Charles Ramsey, he's the former Washington D.C. Police Chief and Philadelphia Police Commissioner. Also with us, Ayesha Bell Hardaway, she's an Assistant Professor of Law at Case Western Reserve University and the Co-director of the university's Social Justice Institute.

Professor, just so kind of explain to people what they just saw there, they saw a defense attorney first, with that witness have the witness say he heard George Floyd say effectively, I ate too many drugs, which is a strange thing to say, you don't hear that often.

Then you had the prosecution on redirect and playing him more of the tapes saying, no, no, what I heard is I ain't do no drugs. So what's the significance of the back and forth there? And who do you think got the better of it?

AYESHA BELL HARDAWAY, ASSISTANT PROF. OF LAW, CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIVERSITY: Yes, no. Good morning. Thank you for having me. Really good question. You know, on the whole, I think it's very difficult to make out what Mr. Floyd said. Agent Reyerson, unfortunately, fell prey to a tried and true cross examination technique logged into agreeing to everything basically that Nelson was saying.

But with so much talk about the totality of the circumstances, I think it was a slide move for the defense to play only that small portion. The defense's interpretation doesn't really make a lot of sense when you listen to the full portion that was later played by the prosecution. But unfortunately, the prosecutor was caught flat footed initially.

And with that being said, it will be interesting to see what the jury takes away. Again, I don't think the defense attorney's interpretation makes sense under the circumstances.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And Commissioner this all plays into, right, part of what we know is a portion of the defense's strategy, that it was the drugs that were really that killed George Floyd were a significant factor, not use of force. But the bottom line is we know in Minnesota, we have to talk about a substantial cause. You don't have to have a sole cause, Commissioner. So when we look at the case that's being laid out here, what are you taking away from this real focus on that moment and whatever Mr. Floyd may have said in terms of how it impacted the actions that were taken and the force that was used?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all, I still don't understand exactly what it is, he said, personally. And I've listened to it a few times. Let me just say this. Later on, we'll hear testimony from a medical examiner. I've attended numerous autopsies in my time. They do examine the contents of the stomach during the autopsy. So we'll get an indication from that. But let's just go with this for a while with the defense counsel, saying that his words were I ate too many drugs.

As a police officer, if you see someone ingest drugs, swallow, they do that to avoid being arrested. Or they tell you that they ingested a large quantity of drugs. You have an obligation to get them to the hospital to get their stomach pumped, because that could be lethal. And so if Chauvin knew that, if the other officers heard that and knew that, then again, they had another obligation here in terms of duty of care, get that person to the hospital to get their stomach pumped, because that again, could kill him.

And so, you know, he's trying to solve one problem, but he could be creating another problem for himself in the process.

BERMAN: Professor, Chief Ramsey talked about the fact we are going to hear I don't know if it's today, I don't know if it'll be tomorrow from the medical examiner. And it feels as if a lot of what's happened these last few days has been a run up to that moment in the testimony there. How do you expect the prosecution to go at this because they know going in that the defense on cross will try to score some points?

HARDAWAY: For sure --

RAMSEY: Well again --

HARDAWAY: Obviously --

RAMSEY: Go ahead, Ayesha, I'm sorry.

HARDAWAY: No, I'm sorry. No, no, no, please, Chuck you go.

RAMSEY: Well, I thought it was for me, so go ahead.

BERMAN: Professor?

HARDAWAY: No, I just wanted to say I think the medical examiner obviously has the report and has identified what they believe the cause of death to have been it's around the actions of police enforcement that induced a cardio -- that induced a heart attack.

[07:35:07]

And so with all of the information that we've heard yesterday from the chemist and the forensic scientists around the quantity of the amount of fentanyl and methamphetamines and the pills that were found, I think that will play nicely into what the medical examiner and other medical experts for the state will have to say, obviously, as you mentioned, the defense will do everything they can to undercut that.

BERMAN: Commissioner?

RAMSEY: Well, I was going to say, you know, is -- and this is going to revolve around that, obviously, the most critical testimony is going to be that of the medical examiner, again, substantial cause of death. He did have drugs in his system, apparently. The question is whether or not that would have been a lethal dose and would that have killed him in approximately the same time that he expired, when Chauvin had him in his custody.

That's going to be maybe not so easy to determine. But the other part, I think that's important is that, you know, people develop tolerance over time, drug users, opioid users. What might be lethal for you would not be lethal for me if I'm a regular drug user. So we have to keep everything in context, in terms of how much was in his system, and would that have in fact killed him. And that's just very, very important to remember.

The other thing, even that photograph they showed a couple days ago, when they show it could be a lethal dose of fentanyl. Again, drug dealers don't sell pure fentanyl, they step on it. They mix it with other types of like milk sugar or something else. That's how they make their profit. They take a small amount and turn it into a big amount and they sell it. So you're not taking a pure form of the drug.

If you are that's called a hot shot, and that's intentional. They're trying to kill you. And that happens too on occasion, but the normal course of business that's not what takes place.

BERMAN: Commissioner and Professor, thank you both so much for being with us this morning and being so polite. We really appreciate it.

HARDAWAY: Thank you for having me.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, CNN has learned new details about one of the most significant attacks against U.S. forces in Afghanistan. We have a live report from the Pentagon, next.

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[07:41:33]

HILL: Developing this morning, CNN has learned the Taliban twice targeted one of the most heavily guarded bases in Afghanistan with U.S. military personnel coming under fire. CNN's Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon this morning with the details for us, Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning there. Why is this so important? Well, we are just now three weeks away from May 1st, the date on the calendar for the agreement that the Trump administration signed with the Taliban to get U.S. troops out of Afghanistan and to end America's longest war. Three weeks away and instead what we are seeing is the Taliban continue its attacks, its violence.

The one you're mentioning, this is a base called Chapman in Eastern Afghanistan. And at the end of March, not widely reported, there were two attacks against the base. Nobody hurt, nobody injured. But it was widely believed that Taliban absolutely knew that there were U.S. troops on that base. Chapman has a long bitter memory, especially with the CIA. It was attacked in 2009. And multiple many CIA officers were killed in that attack.

Just yesterday, the Taliban, according to U.S. officials, attacked the airbase in Kandahar, a base also where U.S. troops are located. So where are we right now? The Biden administration is giving no indication it's going to meet that May 1st deadline instead, still talking to the Taliban, still negotiating to try and get them to agree to give the U.S. more time. There are 2,500 U.S. troops openly serving in Afghanistan. But here's what's so critical. There are about another, maybe 1,000, maybe several 100, no one will say other U.S. troops, Special Forces, many working for the CIA, many in covert status, also in Afghanistan, trying to deal with a counter terrorism situation there.

So the real question is, can the U.S. make a decision to finally pull out of Afghanistan? Will it leave troops for counter terrorism? Is there still concerned that if the U.S. leaves, the Taliban still strong enough to possibly move in and try and take control in that country?

BERMAN: Crucial days, crucial decisions. Barbara Starr, thank you so much for your reporting.

So at least one of the Capitol insurrection defendants has flipped against the Proud Boys agreeing to provide information that could allow the Justice Department to bring more severe charges against the group's leadership. The development is the first indication that people charged in the deadly insurrection are cooperating against the pro-Trump extremist group. The cases are still in early stages. None of the defendants has pleaded guilty.

HILL: Georgia State Representative Park Cannon will not face any charges after being arrested last month for knocking on Governor Brian Kemp's door as he signed the state's restrictive new voting law. Cannon's lawyer says she should have never been arrested in the first place and they are weighing legal action.

BERMAN: So this morning, we want to take a moment to remember a former CNN colleague, Midwin Charles, passed away Tuesday. She was a prominent defense attorney and legal analyst for CNN and other news outlets. The cause of her death is not known. Her family released a statement saying she was known to many as a legal commentator on television but to us she was a devoted daughter, sister, aunt, niece, and cousin. Our lives are forever changed we will miss her for a lifetime.

[07:45:02]

Midwin Charles was just 47 years old. May her memory be a blessing. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Across the country, a growing debate over vaccine passports. Some businesses and schools are demanding them but opposition is building over privacy and other concerns. CNN's Randi Kaye, live in Palm Beach County, Florida with much more on this. Good morning Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. So many questions about whether vaccine passports are legal or ethical and no matter the answer, Florida's Republican Governor has made it very clear they are not welcome here in the state of Florida. So now businesses and even universities are having to rethink their plans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE (voice-over): At Rocco's Tacos and Tequila Bar in Delray Beach, Florida, customers are returning and with them talk of so called vaccine passports. Owner Rocco Mangel has been vaccinated and would like others to do the same. But he's not in favor of requiring it in his restaurants for staff and customers. For him, it's about freedom of choice.

[07:50:19]

ROCCO MANGEL, OWNER, ROCCO'S TACOS AND TEQUILA BAR: Requiring people to have a vaccination card to come into the restaurant or vaccination app or a passport, I think it infringes on their rights.

KAYE (voice-over): That tracks with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis's view. It's part of why he issued an executive order banning vaccine passports in the state of Florida. DeSantis has dismissed vaccine passports in the same way he did many other measures during the pandemic, like mask mandates and lock downs, all in the name of protecting rights and in this case, privacy.

(on camera): Do you think you'd get more business or see more business if a vaccine was required here?

MANGEL: I think quite the opposite. If we required it that would be a perception of that we're trying to govern them.

KAYE (voice-over): DeSantis argues that vaccine passports reduce individual freedom and would create two classes of citizens based on vaccination.

(on camera): According to the executive order, businesses here in Florida are prohibited from requiring customers to provide documentation certifying a COVID-19 vaccination or post transmission recovery in order to gain access to that business.

(voice-over): DeSantis's order puts him at odds with those who believe they're included in the order and are planning for or at least considering requiring a vaccine passport, like the Straz Center for the Performing Arts in Tampa.

JUDY LISI, CEO, STRAZ CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS: It's really critical to our reopening and eventually to get us to 100 percent capacity.

KAYE (voice-over): CEO Judy Lisi says she's surprised by and disappointed with the Governor's decision.

LISI: If you think about mass gathering places like theaters and stadiums and arenas, we're sitting right next to each other. So it becomes really important to have a vaccine program as an option for our guests and for our artists.

KAYE (voice-over): At Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale, proof of COVID-19 vaccination was going to be mandatory for staff and students come the fall semester. But when I alerted the university's CEO to the Governor's executive order banning vaccine passports --

GEORGE HANBURY, PRESIDENT & CEO, NOVA SOUTHEASTERN UNIV.: I will change whatever is necessary to comply with the law and to the Governor's executive order.

KAYE (voice-over): The popular South Beach Wine and Food Festival may also now have to change its plans to require proof of a vaccine or a negative COVID test to enter next month's event.

LEE BRIAN SCHRAGER, FOUNDER, SOUTH BEACH WINE & FOOD FESTIVAL: We'll be constantly reevaluating up until the last second. But for now, this is the plan we have in place and the plan that I hope stays in place.

KAYE (voice-over): Back at Rocco's Tacos, Rocco Mangel says he doesn't think a vaccine passport would make his restaurant any safer than it already is.

MANGEL: People make a choice. And people need to make hopefully a choice that they're not going to put other people at risk.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And now the Biden administration is backing away from mandating any kind of federal vaccine passport. But no doubt, Republican governors will continue to make this a wedge issue with Democrats. And there is some concern that that could have a real impact on vaccine hesitancy. Just last month a CNN poll showed that 57 percent of Republicans, Erica, would not get the vaccine.

HILL: That's such a high number. Randi, thank you. Appreciate it.

Well, the cruise industry has been decimated by the pandemic. The CDC's no sail order remains in effect until November. And that of course prevents cruise lines from sailing from U.S. ports. This week though, Norwegian Cruise Line is pitching a plan to the CDC with the hope that it can start sailings on July 4th. One of those requirements as part of the plan, everyone on board must be fully vaccinated.

Joining me now Frank Del Rio, he's the President and CEO of Norwegian Cruise Line. Good to have you with us this morning. As you know, we just heard in Randi's piece, a lot of hesitancy if you talk about a so called vaccine passport requiring everyone be vaccinated. How will you plan to confirm that? Is it at the time of booking or when they arrive?

FRANK DEL RIO, PRESIDENT & CEO, NORWEGIAN CRUISE LINE: Good morning, Erica, nice to see you and have -- thank you for having me this morning.

Look, our situation is a little different because we are under the thumb of the FDA -- of the CDC. And so the CDC has shut us down for over a year now. I don't know of any other industry that has suffered at the hands of any federal agency like we have. As you know, there are many, if not all, travel, tourism, and hospitality venues that are open throughout the country that never shut down or certainly open today. And so we want to be treated fairly. We want to be treated just like every other industry. And the CDC is not cooperating up to now. And so I think it's time that the cruise industry that the people understand the plight that we're under, why should we be different?

[07:55:06]

HILL: So --

DEL RIO: And so if it takes vaccines to break that logjam with the CDC, that's what we're prepared to do.

HILL: So and I just wonder if we could put this up on the screen, again, in addition to that you're requiring a negative test before boarding, masks on board. You're also limiting capacity to 60 percent. How did you come up with that number? What's the science behind that?

DEL RIO: Well, there's a lot of science behind everything we have proposed. As you may know, back in May of 2020 together with Royal Caribbean group, we stood up the healthy sail panel led by former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb and former Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt, they in turn put together a blue ribbon panel that came forth with 74 protocols that were issued in late September submitted to the CDC in the fall, which is CDC has completely ignored.

So, every one of those 74 protocols has been vetted by these blue ribbon panel members that I mentioned. But the cornerstone of our return to service proposal to the CDC, which as you said, we submitted to them on a Monday, but we've not yet heard back anything from them is the vaccine. The vaccine is supposed to be the game changer, the silver bullet, what society is marching towards, there's a race going on in this world to vaccinate everyone.

And so I challenge you to tell me another venue on earth, where you can be guaranteed that everyone inside that venue, whether it's a grocery store, an office, building, a school, a resort, a casino, a hotel, everyone is vaccinated, protected. And on top of that, you layer in this multi-prong 74 protocols developed by the best scientific minds in America. What could possibly be safer than that?

HILL: So two quick points before I let you go because we're a little tight on time. Based on the vaccines you have, and correct me if my numbers are wrong here, but some 30,000 workers who've been laid off, a lot of your workforce are foreign workers, many of them are in their home countries. How do you ensure that they're going to be able to get vaccinated? We can see the issues that are facing a lot of other countries versus the U.S. in terms of vaccinations effect.

DEL RIO: If people are not vaccinated, they're not getting on board on Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings --

HILL: So full stop for all employees?

DEL RIO: So we will source vaccines for our crew or else we won't sail.

HILL: OK. And you're able to source them on your own independently?

DEL RIO: We believe we will, certainly by the time we propose to sail sometime in the summer, yes.

HILL: OK. So I definitely want more details on that as soon as you have that ready since you believe you will. The other thing that CDC put out when they said there's no specific date in their most recent guidance, or when you can resume operations, they said you must report cases every day instead of weekly. I know your plan is to test when people arrive. Based on what I saw on your website, there will be testing capacity on board. But do you plan to test daily and transmit that information back to the CDC on a daily basis?

DEL RIO: We've asked the CDC to lift the conditional sail order, not just us, but our entire industry. We think it's an unworkable proposal. As far as we're concerned, it is just not doable. And we have a better proposal. Our proposal is everybody on board is vaccinated. Everybody on board has to follow these science based, very strict protocols. So the need for all of this nonsense daily reporting, do hotels report daily, do airlines report daily, no one does. Why should the airline -- why should the cruise industry be exposed in to that kind of draconian requirements? It's just not fair. It's discriminatory. And we hope the CDC comes to the table soon to discuss all these issues because up to now they haven't.

HILL: Frank Del Rio, we really appreciate your time this morning. And please let us know when you do hear, I'm going to think positively here, when you do hear from the CDC because I know there are a lot of folks who are wondering where and when this will begin to change. Frank Del Rio, thanks again.

New Day continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joe Manchin stating, yet again, we're not going to do anything with the filibuster.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I was Joe Biden, I would support getting rid of the filibuster.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The President going through these executive actions that they believe were going to stem some of the gun violence that we've seen.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't need to wait another minute to take common sense steps will save the lives in the future.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That more contagious coronavirus variant first found in the U.K. now dominates here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the more reason to get vaccinated as quickly as possible.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT: Hang in there a bit longer to get each day more and more people by the millions are getting vaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, this is New Day. I'm John Berman. And Erica Hill is here with me this morning.

[08:00:06]

HILL: Good morning, my friend.

BERMAN: Nice to see you.