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Democratic Senator Joe Manchin Writes Op-Ed Indicating He Wants Republican Senators Involved in Negotiating Bipartisan Infrastructure Spending Bill; Coronavirus Cases and Hospital Rising Recently in States Across U.S.; Sen. Joe Manchin Delivers Major Blow to Biden Agenda, Says He Opposes Reconciliation, Backs Filibuster. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired April 08, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: In the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. I'm John Berman, and Erica Hill is here with me this morning.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, my friend.

BERMAN: Nice to see you.

So has one man just thrown the president's infrastructure plan off the rails? You thought I was done.

HILL: But I'm cheating right there.

BERMAN: You thought I was done with infrastructure metaphors there. West Virginia Democratic Senator Joe Manchin wrote an op-ed overnight opposing passing key legislation on strict party line votes. Manchin says he's alarmed by that process. Since no Republicans at this point publicly support the Biden plan, at least not yet, that puts it in serious peril, or, I guess, as much peril as Joe Manchin wants it to be.

HILL: Meantime, overnight, 70,000 new coronavirus reported in the United States, and hospitalizations just hit their highest level in a month. The CDC confirming that the highly contagious B-117 variant, that's the one first identified in the United Kingdom, it is now the most common strain of coronavirus here in the United States.

BERMAN: We begin with the developing news on President Biden's infrastructure plan. Joining us now, CNN's chief political correspondent Dana Bash. She is the co-anchor of CNN's STATE OF THE UNION. And Dana, I know that when you read this op-ed there was one paragraph that jumped out at you as most important. Coincidentally, I think it's the most important, too. Go ahead.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's one of the things that gives Joe Manchin an exit ramp off of this. There you go. You thought you were the only one who could do infrastructure metaphors? (LAUGHTER)

HILL: I knew. I knew you would bring it.

BERMAN: Every time I think I have one, you guys crush me.

BASH: We get you. We get you, John Berman.

But in all seriousness, I have actually spoken to Senator Manchin over the past week about his feelings on this notion of using so-called budget reconciliation, which is a lot to swallow at 8:00 eastern in the morning, but for people who have not been totally focused on process in the U.S. Senate, it is a way to get around the filibuster. And the Democrats, the Biden administration, they got approval from the Senate parliamentarian to potentially put through the very large infrastructure proposal that the president put forward without Republican votes, except they need all Democrats, and Joe Manchin in this op-ed is saying not so fast.

And here's the key graph that you and I both really thought was important. "I simply do not believe budget reconciliation should replace regular order in the Senate. How is that good for the future of this nation? Senate Democrats must avoid the temptation to abandon our Republican colleagues on important national issues. Republicans, however, have a responsibility to stop saying no and participate in finding real compromise with Democrats."

And the reason why that is so key and, John, I know you'll agree, Erica, too, is because Joe Manchin's whole point of view is that the United States Senate was meant as a place for compromise and that the Biden administration, Democratic leaders, are giving up on compromise too soon. Of course, what the Democratic leaders say is, give me a break. If you really think there are Republicans who are going to actually compromise and you need at least 10, there's no chance -- history does not show that there's evidence for that.

But Joe Manchin, in this op-ed and in conversations I've had with him, he says that is simply not true. It is doable. But it is up to senators in both parties to roll up their sleeves and prove it's possible.

HILL: So to that point, he says it's time to do the hard work here. Is he bringing any Republicans to play at this point?

BASH: Well, what he argues is, yes, that there are Republicans willing to play ball. The question is whether or not they can finish the game, so to speak, because what he points to is what happened in December. And what happened in December is that leaders in both parties, this is obviously still under President Trump, threw up their hands and said there is no way we can come together on a compromise on COVID relief. This group of 20 senators, 10 Democrats and 10 Republicans, did just that. And they did it over the objections of leaders, particularly the Republican leader, Mitch McConnell.

He says that that is -- that they can replicate that in so many areas, including infrastructure. The thing that we have to keep in mind, though, is whether or not, a, as I said, Republicans really want to come along, and, b, whether or not that really is what the Biden administration wants to do here given how big a proposal this is and how many really critical ideas for progressives and for just not progressives, for working people they have in this infrastructure bill, from childcare to many, many other things.

[08:05:12]

And what many people in the administration believe is that their time might be finite. And they might lose Congress in the midterm election. So let's push through as much as we possibly can now, and because this time is of the essence. But Joe Manchin is saying, not so fast, and he matters because you can't even lose one Democrat.

BERMAN: Dana, you're fluent in Manchin. So if you can translate for me. Does this basically mean, if we're going to turn to the end of the book here, that Manchin is saying, OK, negotiate for a month, two months, whatever, until the end of May, which seems to be a little bit in vogue now as an endpoint here. But if no Republicans come along, then I will let this go through on a party line vote. Is that what he's saying here? And just the other big question that we keep on asking, is Joe Manchin the most powerful man in the world right now?

BASH: The answer to that question is, yes. He is incredibly powerful. And, look, he knows it. And you know what, any Democrat, if they raise their hand and decided to play this role, could be the most powerful person in the world. He just decided that this is his point of view, mostly because he voted against rule changes under Democrats. He voted against rule changes under Republicans because he fundamentally believes that compromise is the way to go, and he believes that it is doable.

And one of the things that I wanted to add to that is an argument that he makes is what I call the shoe on the other foot argument, which is, OK, so let's say that they go through this process passing really sweeping legislation with just Democrats using this process. What happens when Republicans are in charge? What are Democrats going to do when Republicans use those same exact tactics to pass really big policy changes or programs that Democrats simply hate? And that is an important point of view. And he's trying to remind his fellow Democrats of that.

I don't know the answer, and I'm not sure Joe Manchin knows the answer to how this book ends, but what is very clear is that he is going to try to guide how the middle chapters are written and try to do it in a very aggressive way. And by "it," I mean force the White House to slow their roll and allow Democrats and Republicans to talk. And it's not really clear how much of a choice, at least for the short term, the White House is going to have.

BERMAN: A metaphor-rich discussion with Dana Bash.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: We appreciate it very much. Great to see you. I do want to note, we're going to have White House communications director Kate Bedingfield on to address a lot of this in just a few minutes.

HILL: Dana, thank you. In a new interview with CNN, Dr. Anthony Fauci expressing concern over the rise in coronavirus cases in the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, BIDEN CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER: The last count yesterday was 63,000 cases in a single day. When you're at that level, there is the risk of getting a surge back up. So the way we're looking at it now, it's almost a race between getting people vaccinated and the surge that seems to want to increase and do what's going on, for example, in Europe where they are having some surges now that are really quite alarming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: And to add to that, more than 70,000 new cases just reported overnight. Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, always good to see you. It struck me that Dr. Fauci there said -- good morning -- said it's almost a race. I feel like we've been talking about this race between vaccinations and the variants for some time now. So I guess the question is not are we in the race, but who is winning?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, I think that's fair. I think the race initially was let's see if we can vaccinate the most vulnerable people in the country, the people most likely to actually get severely ill, require hospitalization, or even die. And we've done well with regard to that part of the race.

The race now, I think that Dr. Fauci and Dr. Walensky and others are referring to is more about younger people at this point for two reasons. One is that we know that they can be significant sources of spread, and they can still spread to the people who are vulnerable that have not yet been vaccinated, which is a significant percentage. But also because of these variants you are seeing an increased level of illness in younger people. I don't think it's going to be the same level of illness that we saw in older people initially with this where hospitals really quickly became overwhelmed. But it's concerning.

Let me show you this graphic if we have it, quickly, just talk about the race. Who has been vaccinated? How old are the people that have been vaccinated? And where are we in that? We can look at who has received one shot versus two shots for the various age groups.

[08:10:05]

This probably won't surprise you if you've been following this along. Yellow represents one shot. Blue is two shots. The vast majority, 60, 70 percent of people who are fully vaccinated are older. As you start to creep younger and younger, it's a much smaller percentage. There is a message in there. The message is that a lot of younger people may have said, look, it was important, obviously, for older, vulnerable people to go first, but now, if it's my turn, I need to make sure I go ahead and get vaccinated. People may say, look, things may be looking better. I don't need to worry about this. I'm young, I'm immortal. The graph tells a different story.

BERMAN: But Sanjay, and I know how you like that, when a question is started with "But, Sanjay" --

(LAUGHTER)

HILL: You're channeling your Alisyn.

BERMAN: We talked to Professor Michael Osterholm who pointed out look in Michigan, with hospitalizations steeply on the rise now in Michigan. And nationally hospitalization is starting to creep up also. Professor Michael Osterholm knows that ICU beds are becoming more full in Michigan. And that, sadly, is often -- look at that. That's a very steep rise in hospitalizations. And along with that, we're also seeing a rise in ICU usage that typically what that indicates is that more deaths are to follow. So maybe we won't see as many, but do you think we will see a corresponding rise in deaths in the coming weeks?

GUPTA: Well, one thing I just want to say about Michael Osterholm, and I've known him for a long time, is that we would all do well to listen to him because he's typically been right. People don't like to hear what he says, but he does sound the alarms earlier than a lot of people. Overall hospitalizations in the country have gone up about two percent compared to last week. But there are these pockets, Michigan, Minnesota. In fact, there's about five states right now that are accounting for 43 percent of new infections.

But you asked a very specific question. Deaths have gone down 21 percent this week compared to last week. But I think there's almost no question that there will be an increase. Deaths have always been a lagging indicator. So cases are going up. There will be a corresponding increase in hospitalizations and deaths.

But I do think, and I think it's because of the vaccines, that we won't have high a proportional increase. I don't want to minimize the fact that they will go up. This shouldn't happen. It doesn't need to happen, and frankly, as much as we talk about the vaccines, the basic public health tools that we've been talking about for a year now still work. They would work against the more commonly circulating coronavirus and now this more dominant strain, the U.K. variant. The basic public health measures still work.

There are so many things working in our advantage right now to get us over this finish line, this metaphorical finish line, but we're doing everything we can seemingly with our human behavior to slow that process of victory down. So that's what we're seeing right now. I'm still optimistic, despite the fact that COVID fatigue has clearly set in. People are letting their guard down. I'm still optimistic going into the summer. But there's going to be people who get sick and people who die who absolutely don't need to because we have this wonderful tool in the form of these vaccines in place, and that's just too bad.

BERMAN: Sanjay, thank you for much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

GUPTA: You got it.

BERMAN: So did Senator Joe Manchin just doom the president's infrastructure plan? We're joined by the White House communications director next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:09]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Developing this morning, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin throwing what could be a major obstacle in the way of President Biden's infrastructure plan, announcing that he opposes a measure that would allow the legislation to pass along party lines.

Manchin wrote in an op-ed, quote: We should be alarmed at how the budget reconciliation process is being used by both parties to stifle debate around the issues facing our country today. I simply do not believe budget reconciliation should replace regular order in the Senate.

Joining me now is White House Communications Director Kate Bedingfield.

Kate, great to see you.

Look, I don't know, or I haven't heard one single Republican senator say they support the president's infrastructure plan as is right now. Not one, let alone ten.

So, Joe Manchin saying this, how much of an obstacle is this to getting the plan passed?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, one thing I would note, John, is that Republican voters all across the country are saying that they support the plan. We see polling that shows that a majority of Republican voters, 57 percent, think that the American jobs plan is the right path forward. And these investments are necessary.

So, look, this is the process. This is how the process plays out. This is how it's supposed to work. Senators raise their issues and concerns and we'll work through the process.

I mean, President Biden has said himself many times that his preference is to do this through regular order. And he believes that Republican senators should come to the table and make suggestions. What President Biden has proposed investments in our infrastructure that are going to create jobs, that are going to help families all across the country. And he's put forward also a plan to pay for it.

And he said if Republicans have different thoughts or if Democrats have different thoughts about how to proceed, he wants to hear that. So, he wants to work through a process and ultimately sign this bill into law.

BERMAN: What are you guys specifically doing about Joe Manchin? BEDINGFIELD: Well, we have done a lot of outreach. We continue to

reach out not only to Senator Manchin but to senators on both sides of the aisle and to members of the house on both sides of the aisle.

President Biden wants to have an open dialogue. He wants to hear concerns. He wants to hear ideas. And he knows this process is going to be a little longer, for example, than the process around the American rescue plan.

And that's okay. We want to make sure that at the end of the day, we're making these investments. What President Biden said again yesterday is the only thing that's unacceptable to him is inaction.

So, he's ready to work through the process. We're doing a lot of outreach to members on both sides of the aisle.

BERMAN: When was the last time the president spoke to Senator Manchin?

BEDINGFIELD: I don't have specific details of the conversation to read out to you except to say that, you know, this work is ongoing. This conversation is ongoing. This kind of back and forth is important. This is how we move the ball forward.

BERMAN: It might help if they talked, right? Should they get together and find out exactly where they agree on things?

BEDINGFIELD: I assure you, there's a lot of conversation between not only Senator Manchin's office and the White House but members all across the Hill.

[08:20:05]

This is a collaborative process, and that's how President Biden wants to get this done. He wants to work with everybody. And that's what he intends to do.

BERMAN: I want to talk about guns, which, by the way, is not unrelated to Senator Joe Manchin in the proposals and what he was willing to accept in the Senate. But the president is going to announce some executive actions today.

What will he be announcing?

BEDINGFIELD: He's going to announce a number of really important actions. He's going to announce that the Justice Department is going to take steps to curtail ghost guns which are guns that can be built essentially from a kit and are not traceable. And then are used in a crime or in a shooting. They're not able to be traced. So, he's going to announce the Justice Department is going to take steps to curtail ghost guns.

They're going to put forward language to regulate stabilizing braces, which are devices that help make a pistol more stable, more accurate. So, he's going to announce the Justice Department is going to move there as well. They're going to put forward a model red flag law which is a law that allows guns to be more easily taken out of the hands of people who are in crisis.

So the Justice Department is going to put forward a model law and will help make it easier for states to draft similar legislation and hopefully pass it.

So these are just some of the initial steps. He's also going to be announcing investment in community violence intervention programs. These are all really important steps that he can take within his authority as president.

But he would be the first to say this is not enough. And Congress also needs to move forward, for example, on the bipartisan background check bills that are in front of them. Because the majority of the American people believe that we need sensible gun reform.

BERMAN: You talked about the pistol grips there. When that jumps out at me because, is this a rule that would prevent the sale of these or force the sale of them to be regulated as essentially short barrel rifles? Will it do that?

Because people always ask, right, how would new gun measures have played into the last mass shooting?

BEDINGFIELD: Right.

BERMAN: In the shooting in Boulder, Colorado, this type of brace was used.

BEDINGFIELD: Right. Well, you know, I can't speak to a specific shooting, but I can say that these kinds of rules, these kinds of regulations will help prevent shootings moving forward. You know, they will -- these are sensible. These are sensible regulations that help ensure that some of the most dangerous elements, most dangerous guns that are out there, won't be as easy to get and to use.

So, you know, I don't want to get into a specific shooting just because there are a lot of factors there. That's not something that we want to weigh into from the White House, but I can say that this kind of regulation will make it harder to get that device moving forward. And that's important.

BERMAN: We've been reporting all morning about the rise in coronavirus cases around the country. If cases keep on rising, if hospitalizations, which are up 2 percent since last week, if that continues to rise, what is the president prepared to do?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, he'll do what he has been doing, John, which is -- which is leading, both in terms of encouraging people to stay vigilant, encouraging people to continue to wear masks, to continue to socially distance. To not let their guard down as we're moving toward hopefully the finish line of this pandemic at some point in the coming months. He's been very clear that we still have a long way to go and that we need to be vigilant.

He's also going to continue to make it easier for people to get a vaccine which is the single most important thing we can do to end the pandemic. So, he's going to continue to ensure that states have the supply they need, that they have enough vaccinators, enough people putting shots in arms, and that it becomes easier and easier for people to get a vaccine as we move forward.

That's the most important thing we can do to end the pandemic. He's made tremendous strides on this since he came into office in January, and he's going to continue to focus there.

BERMAN: That's what he is doing. The cases are rising. So what if they keep rising?

BEDINGFIELD: We have to keep getting shots in arms. I mean, at the end of the day, scientists say the most important thing, doctors say the most important thing we can do to put this behind us once and for all is to get people vaccinated.

So we have to keep getting shots in arms. And so, every day, he's working relentlessly to make sure that people can get those shots.

For example, he just announced that we were moving up the eligibility date for all adults in the country from May 1st to April 19th. He's made dramatic strides since he came into office to make the vaccine more widely available, more easily accessible. He's going to continue to do that.

And he's also going to continue to lead by example and call on people to be responsible to wear masks and he's going to remind people that what we do now, the behavior that we do now, is going to have an impact on how quickly we're able to finally once and for all put this virus behind us.

[08:25:03]

BERMAN: When will the president address a joint session of Congress? I don't think -- I can't remember a time when a new president has waited this long to address the joint session?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, I don't have a date to share with you right now, but we are working with congressional leadership. He is hoping to address a joint session, and we'll be sure to announce that date as soon as we have it, John.

BERMAN: I'm pro sharing.

Kate Bedingfield, we appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much.

BEDINGFIELD: Thanks for having me.

BERMAN: So, what did George Floyd say about drugs in his deadly encounter with Minneapolis police? We're going to show you that moment the lawyers focused on in the trial, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Witness testimony resumes this morning in the Derek Chauvin murder trial. And while the prosecution was focused on the former Minneapolis police officer's actions, the defense team has turned the attention to what Floyd did and said in his deadly encounter with police.

Joining us now, CNN legal analysts Elliott Williams and Joey Jackson.

Gentlemen, good to see you this morning.

I just want to play this exchange -- well, two exchanges from yesterday because this is getting a lot of attention about this bit of audio that we can hear and how both the defense and prosecution asked an expert.