Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Testimony from Chauvin Murder Trial; Threat of Variants Grow; Military War in Myanmar. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 09, 2021 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

DR. PRIYA BANERJEE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Cause of death. And did they contribute? Yes. But, you know, he really helps, sort of, qualitatively describe that they might have contributed but they weren't as significant as the restraint-related death --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

BANERJEE: Or -- you know, why the restraint caused the death.

BERMAN: Elie, I think Erica's right, that this testimony, Dr. Tobin's testimony, needs to be seen in the bigger picture with the medical examiner testimony that we are going to get today that so much of the last week has been a buildup to.

The defense -- in a way the defense didn't really lay a finger on Dr. Tobin and didn't really try. So how are both teams using what we saw yesterday to approach what we're going to see today?

HONIG: Yes, so it's such an interesting sort of dilemma for the prosecution here. The problem is, as Dr. Banerjee just said, the medical examiner for Hennepin County, Dr. Baker, who's going to testify today, he's going to have the most impact on the jury because, as compelling as Dr. Tobin was, he did his review based on the dry file and looking at videos and pieces of paper. Dr. Baker performed the autopsy. So his testimony is going to carry a lot of weight.

He concluded the cause of death was cardiopulmonary arrest. And, now, as the doctor said, that doesn't mention asphyxia. To a layperson like me, those sound like two different things. But as the doctor was just explaining, they're not necessarily inconsistent. And the thing that the prosecutors have to explain to the jury is the bottom lines look different, but they can be reconciled. If they do that today, it's going to be a successful day. If not, they're going to have a problem.

BERMAN: All right, thank you both very much. Appreciate it. A big day ahead.

So, despite the success of the U.S. vaccination program, one-fifth of Americans do not plan to get a shot. So why children now may be critical to any hope of reaching herd immunity. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:36:56]

BERMAN: Developing overnight, new concerning signs about a new potential coronavirus surge, even as the vaccination program continues to heat up. Nearly 80,000 new cases reported. Hospitalizations climbing to more than 42,000. That number keeps on rising.

Joining us now is Dr. James Hamblin. He's a public health policy expert and staff writer for "The Atlantic."

Dr. Hamblin, always great to see you.

You know, you and others believe that it's unlikely we'll get a fourth wave, a giant fourth wave, but the way you look at this, and I think it's interesting, is you note, yes, we may not be as bad as we were, but we had nearly a thousand new deaths reported overnight. That's not good. We may need to recalibrate how we're looking at things, stop thinking of it as COVID-19, as in 2019, and start thinking of it as COVID-21 in terms of 2021. Explain.

DR. JAMES HAMBLIN, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Yes. The set of challenges that we're facing right now is just completely different from what we were facing last year. We know a lot about the virus. We have vaccines. We have -- we have better treatments. We know how to prevent the spread of the virus better month after month.

We've protected with vaccination a lot of especially venerable populations and, at the same time, we have these new challenges. We have variants. We have pandemic fatigue. We have policy restrictions being removed at a lot of state levels. We -- people, you know, really eager to get back to work and to school. So we have to think about these new challenges and realize we have -- we're facing more of a longer plateau of cases and deaths where we're seeing surges and spikes in specific local areas. And that doesn't give us the same urgency as when we see an enormous nationwide wave, but it doesn't mean that it's not a big deal. It continues to be a serious threat.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: I feel like we talk about -- you know, we hear it, but then you put it in perspective really well about that long plateau, right? This is not where we want to be which I feel like poor, you know, poor Dr. Fauci's been saying it for so long as we -- as we look at where we're at.

You mentioned vaccinations and we are seeing great news on the vaccine front, specifically when we look at the number of America and of our people in this country who have been vaccinated. But you're saying it may be time, too, to look closer at kids. And I just want to pull up a little bit of what you wrote here, writing, the impending rollout to children will be important for protect kids from needless suffering and that it will save lives in other age group as well, noting in many places adults are delaying vaccination. And surveys show one-fifth are outright refusing it. If this continues, you write, vaccinating kids is going to be central to any hope of reaching herd immunity.

The data that we have so far is very encouraging when it comes to these clinical trials on vaccines in children. Are you concerned, though, that we are going to reach a point where we're really going to have to rely on them even more to help stop the spread?

HAMBLIN: Yes. So many adults have gotten vaccinated and have indicated that they're willing to, and that's wonderful, but it's not enough.

[06:40:02]

We would basically have to get to 100 percent vaccination in adults in order to reach a level that might be considered herd immunity where there was very little spread in the community. Some places will reach that, at least temporarily, because of the combination of vaccinations and natural immunity through infection, but that's not something that can or should be relied upon.

So there is going to be this period through the summer and likely into the fall where adults can be vaccinated and kids can't. And that moves the focus onto the fact that many thousands, tens of thousands of kids have had to be hospitalized over the course of the last year. About a third of them end up in the ICU. The disease is much less severe in general for children, but that doesn't mean that it is nothing. It is not something that, you know, we want any kids to have to get, so we really need every adult to think, in the interest of your community and in the interest of especially younger people who just can't get vaccinated yet, we need everyone to get vaccinated.

BERMAN: Also points to the fact that we all -- all of us who have kids need a little bit of guidance, right? We're all going to be vaccinated soon enough, doubly vaccinated. What are we supposed to do with our kids, who aren't going to be vaccinated for months and months and months? How do we live our lives. That's something the CDC, I'm sure, will hopefully be helping us with soon.

Dr. Hamblin, thanks so much for being with us.

HAMBLIN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Up next, the CNN -- we have a CNN exclusive. Inside Myanmar. Look at the military takeover of the country and the brave people willing to risk everything to fight it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some people from the balcony just flashed three fingers at me. That's "The Hunger Games" salute, which has become emblematic of this uprising. I'm speaking very quietly because I don't want our minders to know what they just did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:52]

HILL: Growing concern this morning over the situation in Myanmar, where killings continue as the military cracks down on pro-democracy protesters. The country of about 55 million people in southeast Asia gained its independence in 1948 but spent more than 50 years under military rule. In fact, it was only in the last decade that Myanmar had a real taste of democracy and civilian rule. That all ended, though, two months ago when the military, one of the largest in Asia, seized power.

CNN's Clarissa Ward and her team were the first journalists allowed into the country since the coup and Clarissa joins us this morning with an exclusive and really powerful report.

Clarissa, good morning.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica.

The bloodshed continues. One monitoring group that's closely following the developments on the ground in Myanmar says that more than 600 people have been killed in the last two months, among them more than 40 children, nearly 3,000 people detained. One official from the U.N. warning of a bloodbath or even a civil war if the situation doesn't improve.

We went there to confront the Junta about their brutality, and on the ground we witnessed extraordinary acts of courage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (voice over): By day the junta continues its brutal crackdown, killing pro-democracy protesters who refuse to submit to military rule. At nights, the raids begin as soldiers round up activists and drag away the dead, their bodies evidence of the military's shoot to kill tactics.

Two months after overthrowing Myanmar's democratically elected government in a coup, the Junta has been unapologetic in its ruthlessness and silent in the face of international outrage. Fearless local journalists and activists have risked everything to show the world what is happening, while outside access to the country has been blocked.

But now the military has granted CNN the first access to visit Myanmar. From the moment we arrive, our movements are tightly controlled.

WARD (on camera): It gives you a sense of the intense level of security with us. One, two, three, another three over there, six trucks full of soldiers accompanied our every move.

WARD (voice over): At township offices across Yangon, alleged victims of the protest movement dutifully await us. They tell us they have been beaten and threatened and humiliated by the violators, a pejorative term the military uses for the pro-democracy protesters.

In north Okkalapa Township, the local administrator complains that the demonstrators were noisy and broke the law by gathering in groups of more than five.

WARD (on camera): Are you seriously comparing these infractions to more than 500 people being killed, among them children? Are you saying that these are equal?

WARD (voice over): Our minders are perturbed by the question and it goes unanswered.

They take us to a shopping center, one of two attacked by arsonists overnight. Like many businesses in Myanmar, they are partially owned by the military. The strong implication from our minders is that the protesters are to blame.

It's a similar story at several burned out factories.

WARD (on camera): This is the third factory that the military wanted to show us. They say it's clear proof that the protesters are violent, that they have been setting fire to businesses like this. But the protesters say they had nothing to do with it at all. And the factory owners who we've spoken to say they simply don't know who's responsible.

WARD (voice over): Sandra's (ph) Chinese-owned garment factory was completely destroyed. She asked we not show her face.

WARD (on camera): Do you have any sense of what you will do now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're waiting for the government giving some helping.

WARD: Who is the government right now in Myanmar?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (laughter).

[06:50:01]

WARD: Sorry, is that a hard question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I don't know.

WARD (voice over): Every moment of our visit is carefully choreographed. When protesters begin posting about our movements on social media, the military cuts off wi-fi across the country. Still, from the window of our convoy, we catch glimpses of reality.

WARD (on camera): Some people from the balcony just flashed three fingers at me. That's "The Hunger Games" salute, which has become emblematic of this uprising. I'm speaking very quietly because I don't want our minders to know what they just did because, honestly, it could be a very dangerous situation for them.

WARD (voice over): We pass a small protest, rejecting Myanmar's return to more than half a century of repressive military rule. Their banner calls for a spring revolution. Our minders won't let us stop.

Finally, after days of pushing, we are allowed to visit a public space, an open market. We avoid approaching anyone, mindful of the fact that we are surrounded by security forces. But, within minutes, one brave man flashes the three-finger salute.

WARD (on camera): I saw that you made a sign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WARD: Tell me what you mean by making that sign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

WARD: No, we don't -- we -- you just stand back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is a justice -- justice -- we want justice.

WARD: You want justice?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice, yes.

WARD (voice over): Moments later, another man approaches.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not scared.

WARD (on camera): Not scared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not weapon. We don't have no weapon. Not scared. But every day fighting, every day, just like that, just like this.

WARD (voice over): As word of our presence spreads, we hear an unmistakable sound. Banging pots and pans is a tradition to get rid of evil spirits, but it has become the signature sound of resistance.

This young teacher says she ran to talk to us when she heard the noise.

WARD (on camera): You want democracy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want democracy. We don't want military coup.

WARD: You know we're surrounded by military, like this guy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't -- I'm not afraid at all. If we are afraid to we people around here would not hit the bang and the pan.

WARD (voice over): Like many young people, she sees her future being ripped away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't want to go back to the dark age. We lost our voice. And we had -- we had democracy only for ten years because we don't have weapons. We don't have guns. Just only we have voice.

WARD: But even words can be punished here. Not wants the situation to escalate, we decide to leave the market as people honk their horns in support of the protest movement.

The junta has grossly underestimated the determination of its people and the growing hatred for the military.

In the capital, Naypyidaw, we finally have the opportunity to confront Myanmar senior military leadership. MAJ. GEN. ZAW MIN TUN, MILITARY SPOKESPERSON (through translator): I

will tell you the reason why we have to crack down. The protests were peaceful from February 1st to the 8th. The reason for the crackdown was because they blocked civil servants. The security forces are giving warnings. Firstly, shouting to break the crowds and then shooting in the air, and the crowds are throwing stones and using slingshots.

WARD (on camera): Are you seriously comparing stones and slingshots to assault rifles? The military is using weapons against its own people that really only belong on the battlefield.

TUN: The main thing is they're not only using stones and slingshots. We have evidence they use gasoline and Molotov cocktails. You have to add those too. For the security forces, they use crackdown weapons for riots. There will be deaths when they're cracking down the riots, but we're not shooting without discipline with the rifles we use for the front lines.

WARD: So this is CCTV footage of 17-year-old Quaman Lau (ph) going past the police convoy. You can see the police shoot him on the spot. His autopsy later said that he suffered brain injury as a result of a cycling accident, which I think we can all see that's not a cycling accident.

How do you explain this?

TUN: If that kind of thing has occurred, we will have investigations for it. We will investigate it if it's true or not. There may be some videos which look suspicious, but for our forces, we don't have any intention to shoot at innocent people.

[06:55:00]

WARD: So 14-year-old Tun-tun Aung (ph), who was killed by your forces, what do you say to his mother? You say that he was a violent protester? Or what would you say to the father of 13-year-old Tun Mac Win (ph), also shot dead by your forces?

TUN: We have heard about the deaths of the children too. There is no reason we will shoot children. This is only the terrorists that are trying to make us look bad.

WARD (voice over): But the lies are paper thin. According to the U.N., as of March 31st, at least 44 children have been killed.

Back in Yangon, our minders take us to another market in a military area, keen to show they have popular support. But the ploy backfires.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We want democracy.

WARD (on camera): I understand.

A man just told me we want democracy as he walked past. But he was too scared to stop and talk.

WARD (voice over): Others are more bold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please save our country.

WARD (on camera): Save your country.

WARD (voice over): These people are not activists. They are ordinary citizens and they live in fear of the military.

WARD (on camera): You have goosebumps. You're like shivering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. They are not -- they are not human.

WARD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

WARD: They're not human.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

WARD (voice over): They are desperate for the outside world to know their pain. One girl approaches us, shaking.

WARD (on camera): I feel like you're very nervous. Are you OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes. We are not safe anymore. Even in the night. There are shooters and the shooters shot the children.

WARD: I don't want you to get in trouble. I don't want you to get arrested, OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Thank you, madam (ph).

WARD: All right?

WARD (voice over): She knows her bravery will certainly be punished, but this is a resistance movement built on small acts of great courage.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD: That woman was, unfortunately, arrested just after she ran away, along with at least seven other people. Their only crime, talking to CNN. Some of them didn't even talk to CNN, they simply flashed "The Hunger Games" salute at our camera.

Fortunately, days later, at least eight of them that CNN has been able to confirm were released. The military saying 11 people were originally detained.

All of this really, I think, giving you a sense of the fact that the military is deeply, deeply threatened by this popular resistance movement. They understand that they do not have the support of their own people.

BERMAN: So, Clarissa, I have to say, that report, that journalism is the very definition of speaking truth to power. What you just did there literally speaking truth to power, coming with the pictures, coming with the receipts. That was stunning.

And the scene inside the market with the courage of those people and to hear them say, you know, we don't have weapons, but we do have a voice, they have a voice, and the world can hear it now because of you and because of the CNN team showing and hearing them and listening to that voice.

So the question now is, what becomes of this, right? The president ordered -- President Biden ordered new sanctions against Myanmar after the coup there. What impact is it having?

WARD: Well, there are several countries now, John, that have levied sanctions at the junta, the U.S., the U.K., the European Union. But the reality is that the U.S. doesn't have a huge amount of leverage, particularly if it's acting on its own. And what we haven't seen yet is the sort of unified effort from the international community singing from the same song sheet. You've got to remember, you have Russia, which has its own agenda. You have China, which has its own agenda. A very different perspective on this whole conflict than the U.S. and the west. And as long as you have that kind of paralysis within the international community, you're not going to see any meaningful, robust response to what's happening in Myanmar. And that's exactly why those people came out, John, and why they were brave enough and desperate enough to risk it all to give their people a voice, to force the world to look at what's happening and challenge them and plead them to do something about it.

HILL: And to John's point, Clarissa, you giving the opportunity -- giving them the opportunity for their voices to be heard. And you see the strength and the courage in what we're hearing and seeing from their voices from those three-finger salutes.

I'm curious, your remarkable reporting, have you heard much since it first aired and whether it's starting to make a difference? I mean it certainly is here, but to your point, there is a lot more that needs to be done on the international front.

[06:59:59]

WARD: Listen, we've been inundated with messages from people in Myanmar who are really happy to hear their voices amplified across the world. But I just want to underscore that it's the local journalists.