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Benjamin Crump is Interviewed about Floyd's Death; Vaccinating against Coronavirus; New Movie "The People V. The Klan." Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 09, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE FLOYD FAMILY: I am not, Erica, because I believe the video tells us what is the most relevant reason why George Floyd is dead. And I think that Dr. Tobin's very specific medical testimony corroborates the police chief and the other police officers in the Minneapolis Police Department that testified that this was absolutely unnecessary, Derek Chauvin having his knee on George Floyd's neck for nine minutes and 29 seconds. And Dr. Tobin corroborated what we all saw with our own eyes. And so I believe the medical examiner's testimony is going to be more consistent with what Dr. Tobin said in court yesterday than people may believe.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Watching that testimony yesterday, I know George Floyd's brother, Rodney, was in the courtroom, I believe, for at least a portion of it, perhaps the whole day. So many people I spoke with said they found it difficult to sit through that testimony as every second, the final seconds, not just the final moments of Mr. Floyd's life were detailed by Dr. Tobin.

How was it for Rodney and how is the family doing in replaying these moments each day throughout the trial?

CRUMP: Yes. Well, obviously, it was very emotional. To us, this is a case, this is a cause, it's a hash tag to Rodney and his family. This is their blood.

You know, they grew up sleeping in the same bed together there in in Kuni (ph) homes (ph) neighborhood of Houston, Texas. And so I know he held his head down much of the time they replayed the video over and over.

But this family is committed, no matter what it takes, Erica, to getting justice for George Floyd. And if that means they have to endure psychological trauma over and over and over again, they are committed. They are leaning on their faith and their prayers to get them through this ordeal.

HILL: You wrote in an op-ed with your colleague, and I'm quoting part of it here, that the impact of this trial is likely to reach beyond the future of former Police Officer Derek Chauvin and possibly create a significant crack in the blue shield.

How so?

CRUMP: Well, as the police chief testified and the other police officers of the Minnesota -- Minneapolis Police Department, they came out for the first time that I saw in front of the blue wall of silence. And they testified truthfully, even holding their own member of their department accountable for a violation of policies, as well as doing cruel and unusual things to George Floyd. They talked about it very straightforward. That's something that we don't commonly see, Erica, that powerful testimony, but very unusual.

And, hopefully, it will set a new precedence now. The police always want people in our neighborhoods to say, well, we want you to tell the truth. We want you to not refuse to cooperate when you see people in your community do something bad. Well, we're saying to the police department, we want you to show us how it's done every chance you get an opportunity. If you want people in our neighborhoods to tell on other people when they do bad, well, you have to tell on people when they do bad in the police department. And so that's what we're praying for, that this is the new precedence now, policing. Something we have rarely seen in policing in the past. Nobody breaks that blue wall of silence hardly in policing in America.

HILL: There is so much tension, so much focus, not just in this country but around the world on this trial.

What are you expecting from the defense?

CRUMP: Well, I think we've seen much of it. They are going to do everything possible, Erica Hill, to distract us. They say, look over here at this angry crowd, trying to suggest, look at these angry black people. That's the reason why Derek Chauvin kept his knee on his neck. And then they're saying, oh, it's the paramedics fault. They're blaming everybody else. They're saying, oh, the trace amount of drugs, his health condition.

[08:35:01]

And that's why we're so grateful that Dr. Tobin was so effective in presenting his testimony that it completely destroyed the defense's theory that George Floyd died as a result of trace amounts of drugs or a health condition because he said unequivocally that the -- a healthy person enduring what George Floyd had to endure would have died as well.

And so I expect, and I am confident in my heart that there will be a conviction of Derek Chauvin being criminally liable for killing George Floyd. But the American legal system has broken my heart before.

HILL: Benjamin Crump, appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.

CRUMP: Thank you.

HILL: Despite more than a third of the country receiving a coronavirus vaccine, vaccine hesitancy remains high in some areas of the U.S. We're going to take a look at the history of the anti-vax movement and what that means when it comes to this fight to end the pandemic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: One-third of adults in the United States have now received at least one dose of a coronavirus vaccine. And one in five Americans are now fully vaccinated. A new CNN documentary airing tomorrow explores the issues of vaccine hesitancy, though, and why some people are still afraid of vaccines.

Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

[08:40:00]

Good morning again, my friend.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Yes, I think that's -- that's going to be the ceiling. You know, we -- everyone's asking, at what point does supply start to outstrip demand? A lot of that's going to be dictated by this issue of vaccine hesitancy.

Let me show you some interesting polling numbers coming out of rural states here looking at overall vaccination numbers there. We know that rural residents actually, you know, a higher percentage, 39 percent, say that they've received at least one dose compared to urban and suburban, both at 31 percent.

But the next graphic sort of tells the story of what likely is to come. And that is this issue of vaccine hesitancy where you actually see more hesitancy, people saying they definitely will not get a COVID-19 vaccine. If those numbers don't budge, it's going to be very hard to get to herd immunity within, you know, just the adult population. That's why everyone's talking about pediatric trials.

Finally, who are these people who are more likely to be hesitant or refuse the vaccine altogether? At least among the rural population, 73 percent identify as Republicans, 41 percent identify as white evangelical Christians.

Look, this issue of vaccine hesitancy has been around for a long time. In fact, we are working on this film before the pandemic started, focusing on the measles outbreaks. You'll remember those in New York and Brooklyn. Where did this movement start from and just how difficult is it for the people who are promoting vaccine messages to get that message out there?

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: No segregation! No discrimination! (INAUDIBLE).

DR. PAUL OFFIT: You put an x on your back and become like any political situation, a target of hate.

GUPTA: Did you anticipate that hatred?

OFFIT: No, I didn't anticipate that hatred. It surprised me, actually.

GUPTA (voice over): And, honestly, it surprised me as well. Dr. Paul Offit, after all, is a respected pediatrician, a vaccine researcher and an advocate.

OFFIT: I mean I get hate mail I would say on a weekly basis. I've been physically threatened and physically harassed. And I've had three legitimate death threats. The kind that get investigated by the FBI.

GUPTA: Over the years, critics have called him everything from a terrorist to a mouth piece for big pharma. Pushing vaccines, they say, because he receives profits from the ones he developed. One post said, Offit should be prosecuted for crimes against our children. Another, I will hang you by your neck until you are dead.

Offit tells everyone that he's not motivated by money but rather driven by memories.

OFFIT: I mean my parents were children of the '20s and '30s. They saw diphtheria as a killer of teenagers. They saw polio as a crippler. I was a child of the '50s and '60s. I had measles, I had mumps, I had German measles, I had chicken pox. I know what those diseases felt like.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What a vivid perspective from Dr. Paul Offit --

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Who, we should say, is just the nicest guy and been so helpful to all of us in understanding this pandemic and such a wonderful doctor and researcher in Philadelphia.

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: Sanjay, is there any sign that all these efforts at education from the federal level, the local level, to people who may be hesitant, are we seeing any signs that it's working, that people are hearing that people have changed their minds? How will we know?

GUPTA: Well, you know, I'm not sure that we are. I mean I think when you first looked at the numbers of vaccine hesitancy going back to sort of middle of last year, the numbers were much higher. And -- but those were people -- those were people who sort of wanted to wait and see, is this -- how is this vaccine rollout going to go? What's the safety data look like? They were concerned.

But there's been a significant percentage. You know, again, around 19 percent, 20 percent of people who were just firmly anti-vaccination, who have really responded to these polls saying under no circumstances will they be taking one of these vaccines. They're harder to reach.

What we really want to do in this film is figure out, where is the anti-vax message really coming from. It's a very, very well organized anti-vaccination movement. Where is it funded? Where is it coming from? Where are they getting their information and then how do people like Paul Offit, you'll also get to see Peter Hotez, who you know well in this film, talking about how they're trying to promulgate the pro- vaccination message.

HILL: Well, we are certainly grateful for their work and for your work every day. It is -- it is fascinating and really looking forward to seeing it this weekend.

Sanjay, thank you.

And you can see this all new CNN special report, "The Truth about Vaccines," tomorrow night right here on CNN at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

Up next, 40 years after a teenager's brutal lynching in Alabama, CNN introduces you to a mother who fought to take down the KKK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:49:02]

BERMAN: The Derek Chauvin murder trial shining a spotlight on issues surrounding racial justice. This is the central theme of a new CNN Original Series "The People V. the Klan," which tells the little known story of a brutal lynching of a black man by the Ku Klux Klan 40 years ago and his mother's fight to bring his killers to justice.

This is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing man could do to me now would affect me as much as Michael's death affected me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a strong believer. I don't know about man, but I know what God can do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a difference between what you know and what you can prove.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Just chilling.

Joining us now, executive producer Cornell William Brooks. He's also the former president and CEO of the NAACP.

Thanks so much for being with us.

[08:50:00]

Just seeing that small preview, it sends chills down your spine. It's been 40 years since the death of Michael Donald, yet I do think it's a story some people know but not everybody.

Why is it so important to tell that story now?

CORNELL WILLIAMS BROOKS, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "THE PEOPLE V. THE KLAN": It's so, so very important to tell this story in this moment when the country is literally transfixed by the Derek Chauvin trial in Minneapolis. And many of us are transfixed by this trial and also traumatized by it. And we're asking ourselves as a country, can people who take black lives be held accountable? That was the same question faced by an African-American mother back in 1981 by the name of Beulah Mae Donald, whose son was brutally lynched by the Klan literally on the doorstep of the Klan headquarters. And that was a question that was literally dropped into her life. And she stood up, held the Klan accountable by going to criminal court and securing a conviction and a death penalty for the first time against the Klan for the murder of a black person and then went to civil court and won and literally won the keys to the Klan headquarters, demonstrating that the American judicial system, as challenged as it may be, as riddled with racism and biased as it may be, that you can prevail.

So that is a story that literally reverberates across time into this present moment. And the reason why I'm so -- I'm just so -- Erica, so excited about this film is because it literally speaks to us in this moment. The (INAUDIBLE) of race and division and the brutalization of black life and the courage that ordinary people demonstrate in the face of racial injustice.

HILL: It's -- you set that up so perfectly for us. It's also remarkable to me -- I looked at it and as I'm reading it and I keep seeing the promo, and I think to myself, oh, 40 years ago. I'm about to turn 45. The 1980s are not that long ago. And I think, too, putting that in perspective, that this happened in 1981. And there was a long way to go then. There's a long way to go now. But, you know, lynching, I think, for a large portion of the country, is something that you think of as far, far in the past. And, sadly, that's not true. And that's an important part of the story as well.

BROOKS: Incredibly important part of the story, Erica. Think about it. So there have been more than 4,000 lynchings in this country. This occurred back in 1981. Michael Donald was killed at about the same age as I was then, 19. The criminal trial occurred my senior year of college and then the civil trial occurred when I was entering Yale Law School. Not that long ago.

The point being here is, in the closing decades of the 20th century, we had a young man lynched. And here in 2021, we have many Americans who feel that George Floyd was lynched. So the point being is that story literally speaks to us in the present moment.

Now we have young people on social media lifting up this trial, pressing the case of racial justice. Back then you had a black newspaper doing the same. You have literally ordinary people through the eloquence of their example trying to bring about justice in their lives. And at the center of this is literally a woman of modest means, but who -- and a modest disposition who nevertheless (INAUDIBLE) power of her example through her insistence that justice be brought about for her son and for other people's children as well. So incredibly powerful. BERMAN: You keep talking about Beulah Mae. And she is someone that

America needs to see, to learn about in this.

Just yell us more about this remarkable hero.

BROOKS: So Beulah Mae Donald lives in Mobile, Alabama. She has a family. She is known as what the mayor of Mobile called as a model mother, not only being a loving mother to her children, but being a loving mother to children in the neighborhood. A woman of deep faith, a woman who literally extended forgiveness to members of the Klan who were convicted for the murder of her son, and a woman who literally, through her determination, her quiet determination, literally (INAUDIBLE) inspired lawyers to go into the court, brought Jesse Jackson to Mobile, Alabama, to press the case and literally spoke to the country (ph) in a whisper that's yet being heard in this moment and that is being depicted, displayed if you will, in this beautiful, beautiful film.

[08:55:16]

BERMAN: Cornell William Brooks, we so appreciate the work you've done on this. We appreciate you being with us this morning. This is an essential American story. This is a story about us that we all need to see. And it's wonderfully done. So we thank you for being with us this morning.

"The People V. the Klan" --

BROOKS: Thank you.

BERMAN: "The People V. the Klan premieres with back-to-back episodes on Sunday at 9:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

Obviously, also this morning, we are marking the death, the breaking news, the world watching the passing of Prince Philip.

HILL: The passing of Prince Philip at the age of 99, announced just within the last couple of hours by the Queen. We will have continuing coverage of both his life and his passing. That continues after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)