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Sources: Trump Declined To Meet With Embattled Rep. Matt Gaetz; Ukraine President Tours Front Line With CNN Amid Russia Tensions; 100+ Business Leaders Discuss Action Against Restrictive Voting Bills. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 12, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:30:46]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

Sources tell CNN that embattled Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz was recently denied a meeting with former President Trump at Mar-a-Lago. Aides reportedly told Mr. Trump not to publicly, quote, "stick his neck out" to defend Gaetz, who is being investigated now by the Department of Justice for sex trafficking. He has denied all the accusations.

With us now is CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman. She's a Washington correspondent for "The New York Times." Good morning, Maggie.

So that's CNN reporting. I think the big -- the bigger picture or question here is yes, maybe it's only Adam Kinzinger who is calling out and saying Matt Gaetz should resign, but how long can Republicans stay quiet on this?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: I think that's right, Erica (sic). Republicans don't want to be dealing with this. They believe that they have a good chance to take back the House in 2022. They don't want to have to be responding to a controversy relating to Matt Gaetz, who many of them are not close to anyway but they certainly don't want to be defending him now.

I can't speak to whether there was an attempt to set up a meeting but I do know that the former president's advisers have been telling him for a while to stay away from the Gaetz matter -- to not defend him. His first impulse was to publicly defend him and he was talked out of that by a number of aides. So he has, so far, kept to that.

HARLOW: Yes.

HABERMAN: We will see what happens as we keep going.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: On the subject of Republicans not wanting to deal with it, let's talk about what happened this weekend in Florida at this Republican refute where the former president spoke. What's received a lot of attention is he went south on Mitch McConnell and was -- you know, said mean things about the Senate minority leader.

But the former president also basically was praising the insurrection. Was bragging about the large crowds there. Was continuing the big lie about the election. And Maggie, I know from your reporting there were a lot of Republicans who felt really deeply uncomfortable with this.

HARLOW: Yes.

HABERMAN: There were, particularly, Republican donors at this dinner -- and this was a donor dinner. This was not an RNC member dinner. But there were donors who were uncomfortable when he went after McConnell the way he did and I think that was one of the most awkward moments of the evening.

But look, he went after McConnell, he went after Mike Pence. Even while claiming he likes Mike Pence he still talked about how he should have the quote-unquote "courage" to turn the -- overturn the election results or not certify Joe Biden's win in Congress that day, January sixth, when Mike Pence's life was threatened by that same crowd that former President Trump was praising.

What I find interesting, John, is the reaction from Republicans yesterday ranged from quiet to sort of chuckling about it, in the case of Sen. John Thune, to saying it's not helpful by Asa Hutchinson.

HARLOW: Yes.

HABERMAN: But nobody wants to take this head-on.

And it reminds me of where things were in 2015 when Donald Trump was reading Lindsey Graham's cell phone out loud at a -- at an event and people were either turning it into a joke or laughing.

The party doesn't know what to do and they are stuck right now --

HARLOW: Yes.

HABERMAN: -- with -- in this vice that President Trump has them in.

HARLOW: It is interesting that the vice grip is so tight given that he's not still the president. And even Gov. Asa Hutchinson -- you're right, Maggie -- to Jake yesterday, even when Jake read him the tweet from the president basically dismissing him from his job -- saying bye-bye -- he still wouldn't condemn, at least directly, that.

The reality is, though, the numbers are scary when you look at the polling. This new Reuters poll over the weekend that showed 55 percent of Republicans falsely believe Biden's victory was a result of illegal or rigged voting. And 60 percent, Maggie, of Republican voters think the election was stolen from Donald Trump. That -- those are astonishing and terrifying numbers.

HABERMAN: Look, these voters believe this because former President Trump said from the bully pulpit over and over again that this election is rigged, this election is a fraud. He did that again on Saturday night -- this was a rigged election. You will continuing hearing that and I think you will continue to have an erosion of confidence in not just the election results but in Joe Biden's presidency among Republicans -- not all.

I do think it's worth noting that former President Biden's approval rating is much higher than Donald Trump's was at this point in Trump's presidency or at any point in Trump's presidency.

[07:35:03]

But it is true that Trump has had a pretty durable impact on seeping into his electorate doubts about the validity of this presidency, which was the goal of some of his Republican allies in the first place and part of why some people did not object louder when he was doing what he was doing in terms of trying to cast doubt on the election results.

They liked the idea of trying to hobble Joe Biden. But this is more than hobbling him. This is -- this is increasing distrust in democracy.

BERMAN: Maggie, the president, Joe Biden, is meeting with some Republicans in this bipartisan group in the White House to discuss infrastructure today. You know, infrastructure -- there were many infrastructure weeks on the schedule in the last administration. It is this notion that there does appear to be bipartisan support on.

I do wonder, in your mind -- and I don't think Republicans in Congress are going to ever get fully on board with what President Biden does. That's just the nature of the two-party system here. But is there an extent to which the Biden administration is dictating the playing field? As long as the playing field is infrastructure they're in a decent place.

HABERMAN: I'm a little more skeptical, John. Look, I do think that talking about infrastructure can appeal to lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. I do think that we've also seen that Biden is trying to redefine what bipartisan means. He tends to look at it as getting a chunk of Republican voters and sort of if we have to go it alone without lawmakers on the Republican side, so be it.

I think there are aspects of this plan that appeal to Republicans. I don't think the way it is right now is going to be able to get enough votes. But I do think that Biden is setting the goal post very far and maybe he'll be able to work his way back and get some compromise.

It is a reminder, John, that one of the things that scared now-Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer back in 2017 -- when he was in the minority in the Senate and Trump was first elected, he was afraid that Trump was going to do an infrastructure plan because it is popular with voters, and Trump never did that. And Biden is sticking to a course that is smarter.

BERMAN: That history is very interesting in this context.

Maggie Haberman, great to have you with us. Thanks so much.

HABERMAN: Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: So this is something that bears watching for sure. This Russian military buildup near the border with Ukraine raising major concerns of possible fighting. CNN has an exclusive report from the frontlines, next.

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[07:41:42]

BERMAN: So, Secretary of State Antony Blinken standing with Ukraine, saying he is concerned about Russia's military buildup of some 50,000 troops on Ukraine's eastern border, warning Moscow there will be consequences for aggressive behavior.

CNN's Matthew Chance joins us now with an exclusive report from the frontlines of this conflict -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John, hi.

Incredible, actually, to tour the muddy, tense trenches on the frontlines of Eastern Ukraine with the president of the country. We spoke at length about the sight of his troops, about what Russia might be up to with its buildup of forces across the border, and of course, what the United States needs to do to try and help bring an end to this conflict.

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CHANCE (voice-over): To the frontlines in Eastern Ukraine, the simmering conflict with Russian-backed rebels, once again the focus of U.S. concern. As tensions with Russia ratchet higher, CNN has gained this unprecedented access to the Ukrainian president for a carefully planned troop visit, flying with him fast and low to avoid ground fire.

CHANCE (on camera): It's been a long time now. It's been seven years, this war.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Yes, seven years.

CHANCE (on camera): How are the soldiers? Are they holding up or are they tired of this war?

ZELENSKY: They are tired, of course. Like, you know, seven years is longer than the Second World War. Yes, we see that and it's terrible.

CHANCE (voice-over): Longer than the second, but with its complex network of dank, muddy trenches, this so-called line of contact, in some places just a few dozen yards from the enemy, looks more like the First World War.

I mean, we've entered this warrant (ph) of trenches that have been dug along the frontline. I'll tell you, I mean, it's like being thrown back to the early 20th century and the Great War because I've not seen anything like this in modern warfare.

CHANCE (voice-over): But this is modern -- the reality of confrontation with Moscow and its proxies.

CHANCE (on camera): Is there a chance that the Russians could be planning an invasion?

ZELENSKY: Of course -- of course, we know it. Beginning from 2014, we know that it can be -- it can be anywhere and each day it can be. So they are ready and well, we are also ready because we are on our land -- on our land in our territory.

CHANCE (voice-over): This is why Ukraine, the U.S., and the western allies are so alarmed. With growing tensions, a dramatic buildup of Russian forces near the Ukrainian border and in Crimea.

Cell phone footage has emerged of armored columns like this one and of military hardware being transported by rail towards the border. Ukrainian military officials tell CNN they estimate more than 50,000 Russian troops are now amassing. Moscow says it's just an exercise, not a threat.

[07:45:07]

But back at the line of contact there's already been a deadly upsurge in sniper fire. More than 20 soldiers killed, say Ukrainian officials, so far this year.

And out here, even the president runs the gauntlet.

CHANCE (on camera): We're going to run for it, right?

ZELENSKY: Yes, run, run.

CHANCE (on camera): OK, all right. Come on, let's go. So we're very close now, aren't we, to --

ZELENSKY: Yes.

CHANCE (on camera): -- the separatists?

ZELENSKY: Yes. (INAUDIBLE).

CHANCE (on camera): That was amazing. So we've come so close now to the frontline between Ukrainian forces and the Russian-backed separatists. But, President Zelensky and I just had to run through the open ground to get to this cover because the situation is so volatile and so potentially dangerous here.

ZELENSKY: Watch your head. Watch your head.

CHANCE (voice-over): Elected two years ago on a promise of ending this conflict, something he's failed to achieve, President Zelensky says he risks these hotspots, as he calls them, to show his frontline soldiers they have political support.

But what Ukraine really needs, he says, is more assistance from Washington. More weapons, more money, and crucially, more backing to join NATO, the western military alliance. Supportive words from President Biden, he says, are simply no longer enough.

ZELENSKY: Ukraine needs more than words. That has taken so long (ph).

CHANCE (on camera): Can I -- can I just ask a follow-up on that?

ZELENSKY: Yes.

CHANCE (on camera): You understand, don't you, that if Ukraine were to be given NATO membership --

ZELENSKY: Yes.

CHANCE (on camera): -- that might make the conflict in this country even worse. It would infuriate Moscow.

ZELENSKY: I can -- I can tell you -- I can answer you. Maybe you are right but what now is going on -- what you do here -- what our people do here, they fight.

So what can be in the future? I don't know, but we have independent (INAUDIBLE) and we decide where to be or where not to be. To be or not to be. You remember Shakespeare?

CHANCE (voice-over): That is, as they say, the question or rather how much U.S. support can the Ukrainian president now expect in the running drama being played out in this theater of war.

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CHANCE: Well, John, even the prospect of Ukraine moving a little bit closer to NATO membership is something the Russians have made clear they are fundamentally opposed to. Just a few days ago, the Foreign Ministry spokeswoman saying that the potential membership -- even that -- could have this irreversible consequences, she said, for Ukraine's state. If that's not a threat, John, then I don't know what is.

BERMAN: Matthew, I have to say, Poppy and I are here watching this and our eyes are like popping out of our heads. I can't believe that you were running through trenches and on the frontlines with the president of Ukraine doing this running interview. It was remarkable to see that.

Clearly, he wants the world to see what's going on now. That's what he gets out of it.

What's Russia doing? Why is Russia doing this now -- this buildup?

CHANCE: Well, I mean, that's a -- that's a good question -- unfortunately, not with a -- not with a very definite answer because Russia doesn't make clear what it's doing.

I mean, what it says officially is that these are military exercises. It's not a threat to anyone. There's nothing to see here, basically.

But we know from past experience that Russia often uses military adventures to distract from problems at home. And, you know, there are countless problems domestically in Russia.

It could also be a message to Washington. Remember, there are particularly tense relations between Russia and the United States at the moment. Sanctions over hacking, over the treatment of Alexey Navalny, the opposition figure. It was only a couple of weeks ago that Joe Biden called Putin a killer and he absolutely hated that.

So this could be a Kremlin test, if you like, of the Biden administration's resolve to see how they're going to react -- John.

BERMAN: President Zelensky bringing you along seems to be a way to communicate with the world and the United States about what he wants, right? And Zelensky flat out said he wants NATO membership.

What is the U.S. saying about this and what, besides that, would Ukraine want from the U.S.?

CHANCE: Yes. I mean, they want NATO membership. Are they going to get it? I mean, probably not because of the reasons we've discussed about it -- angering Russia -- potentially, provoking Russia.

[07:50:06]

But they want money as well. It takes money to prosecute a war like this and Ukraine hasn't got much of it. They want weapons. One Ukraine official said we want Patriot missile systems. We want to be seen as the eastern outpost of democracy. The sort of frontline in the sort of more general battle against the Russian threat. That's how they want to be perceived and that's what they're asking the United States and other allies to treat them as -- John.

BERMAN: Matthew Chance, remarkable reporting. Running on the frontlines with Volodymyr Zelensky. Thank you so much for that work. To you and your crew, well done.

Some of the country's largest corporations taking a stand in support of voting rights. Details -- new details on what they're planning, next.

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[07:55:00]

HARLOW: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Leading CEOs are leaning into the fight for voting rights. Over the weekend, more than 100 business leaders gathered virtually to talk about ways to push back against the efforts in dozens of states to restrict voting access. Among the options on the table, even ending political donations to lawmakers who support these restrictive voting measures. Joining me now is one of the meeting's organizers, Lynn Forester de Rothschild. She's the founder of the Coalition for Inclusive Capitalism. And, Lynn, thank you for being with me very much.

This follows those 72 Black lawmakers penning a letter to their fellow CEOs -- excuse me, Black business leaders penning a letter to their fellow CEOs saying you need to stand up. You need to do more.

So let me just begin with the question of what are these corporate CEOs of the biggest companies in the country going to do about this?

LYNN FORESTER DE ROTHSCHILD, CO-FOUNDER AND MANAGING DIRECTOR, INCLUSIVE CAPITAL PARTNERS, FOUNDER, COALITION FOR INCLUSIVE CAPITALISM (via Cisco Webex): Well, thank you for having me, Poppy. And thank you for covering this story that started in Georgia, but Georgia is really just the canary in the coal mine.

As you indicated, dozens of states have proposed legislation that would restrict voting access. And first of all, fair and open access to voting is not antithetical to trusted and secure elections. In fact, it's fundamental.

And as business leaders and as investors -- and for that matter, as consumers and as employees -- we should understand that a stable society is in the interest of business.

And when businesses act against restrictive voting we are all acting as patriots. We are not acting as partisans. And what does that mean? If we're going to act, that means to take concrete actions.

There was no agreement among the group as to what should happen, but there was agreement that it is important to take a public stand. Right now, there is a group called the Civic Alliance where companies can sign. Over a thousand have already signed.

We also understand that if legislators are going to vote against voting fair, voting for their citizens, that maybe we should not be contributing to those legislators.

HARLOW: OK --

DE ROTHSCHILD: Number two -- yes?

HARLOW: I was just going to say clearly, there's a move potentially to pull money out of any donations to lawmakers or state legislators or PACs.

I think one of the key questions is are these CEOs ready to move their headquarters?

I mean, we heard the lawmakers in Texas, State Sen. Hughes -- who wrote SB7, a restrictive voting bill there -- tell my colleague Pamela Brown last night, ultimately, if these companies don't like the policies, there are plenty of vacancies in California.

Are these CEOs thinking about moving their companies -- headquarters?

DE ROTHSCHILD: No, that wasn't discussed in that way. But what was discussed is that all of these states contact companies all the time telling them why they are attractive places to do business -- particularly, states like Florida and Texas. Well, they should know that companies are going to take a second look if those are states that restrict the voting rights of their employees.

And we also have to applaud the thousands of companies in the last election that gave paid time off to their employees so that they could go vote. That is a concrete action that was discussed on the call and I think you'll see more of that.

HARLOW: Let's end -- I apologize. I don't mean to interrupt you. I apologize for the delay.

I wonder what they had to say about Mitch McConnell saying that they will face, quote, "consequences" for speaking out.

DE ROTHSCHILD: Well, what a terrible hypocrite. He's asking these companies for their money but he's not asking these companies to abide by their fundamental purpose and their own commitments.

Companies across the country are devoted to diversity and inclusion. And if you are a company that stands for that and that's what you say to your employees and your customers, and then you stay silent while states are in really insidious ways limiting their ability of poor, often brown and black people to vote, then you're not standing up for you own purpose. And companies are devoted to their purpose as we -- and also as investors, we are committed to supporting companies that pursue their purpose.

So, Mitch McConnell just is not right, once again.

HARLOW: Lynn Forester de Rothschild, we'll continue this conversation. I know you guys have action ahead. Thank you for being with us this morning.

DE ROTHSCHILD: Thank you.

HARLOW: We're following a lot.