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Three Killed, Two Injured In Mass Shooting Near Kenosha, Wisconsin; Nation On Edge With Derek Chauvin Trial Verdict Expected Soon; Pastor Refuses To Promote Vaccinations, Says Virus Is A Scam. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired April 18, 2021 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was the right way to handle it. We got to male subjects shot --

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The training is intense and part of the training says the Chief --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the knife.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Is never to use a gun or a Taser unless you absolutely have to.

CHIEF GABRIEL RODRIGUEZ, CAMDEN COUNTY POLICE: If you identify the person, they get away, you are still going to find them. There's still time. Slow things down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to be okay. Everything's going to be all right.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Gary Tuchman, CNN, Camden, New Jersey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More shots fired. More shots fired.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[15:00:27]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: Hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

We begin with another night of mass shootings in America and the President's Chief Medical Adviser saying today gun violence in this country is a public health emergency.

Last night's shootings, bringing the total number of mass shootings in the last month to 47. Forty-seven cities and towns where Americans have lost family members and friends to senseless gun violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: When you see people getting killed, I mean in this last month, it's just been horrifying what's happened? How can you say that's not a public health issue? (END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So overnight, near Kenosha, Wisconsin, gunfire broke out at a tavern leaving three people dead and two others seriously injured. And in Columbus, Ohio, one person died and five others were injured when someone opened fire in a parking lot.

The group was gathered to hold a vigil for someone who had been killed there. The mayor tweeting, "Enough. Put down the guns. We must come together to end the violence that is tearing our community apart." President Biden echoing that frustration Friday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Every single day, every single day there is a mass shooting in the United States. If you count all of those who were killed out on the streets of our cities and our rural areas. It's a national embarrassment and must come to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And we're learning, three people are dead at the scene of a shooting in Austin, Texas. Police saying residents should continue to shelter in place, but the shooting rather appears to be a domestic incident.

All the while, Minneapolis and the nation for that matter is bracing for verdicts coming soon in the Derek Chauvin murder trial. That city and much of America will be on edge until jurors reach a decision possibly this week. Closing arguments tomorrow.

That tension was frightening -- was on frightening display, rather, this morning when Minnesota National Guardsmen and police were targeted in a drive-by shooting. No one seriously injured, but officials are worried there could be more violence to come.

Sara Sidner is standing by in Minneapolis. Sara, tell us what you've learned.

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So we understand that two National Guard members have minor injuries that is from the shards of glass and one was taken to the hospital.

We also can tell you that as far as the tension goes, you know, if you look at businesses here, if you look at any of the government buildings here, the ones downtown have been boarded up, and each day, more and more and more buildings are boarded up.

Downtown looks like the green zone in Baghdad, almost when you look at all of the things have been put up -- razor wire, barbed wire. You have huge concrete barricades surrounding the courthouse that's been there for quite some time, but that is getting larger and larger, the area that they are barricading off.

It is clear that the government officials, anyway, do think that tensions are high enough to do extra measures, and part of those extra measures was to bring in the National Guard.

There was a plan very early on to bring in the National Guard when we were very close to the verdict, but they showed up earlier, and part of that was because of yet another police shooting here that ended up killing Daunte Wright, the 20-year-old who was in his car. They were trying to arrest him. He slipped out of the arrest, got in his car and the officer who has now been charged, Kim Potter, ended up shooting him as he was trying to get away.

And so we're in this state right now where you have this George Floyd's alleged murder and you have the person on trial for that, and then you have yet another shooting in the middle of all this.

It couldn't have created a more tense situation in and around the city, not just in Minneapolis, in Brooklyn Center and beyond. The tensions are extremely excruciatingly high.

WHITFIELD: All right, Sara Sidner, we will be watching. Thank you so much from Minneapolis.

The Derek Chauvin trial is at the heart of a fierce national debate about race and policing. That will continue long after the verdicts are handed down. Whatever happens, it could be a defining moment for this country.

I want to bring in now CNN legal analyst, Areva Martin. Areva, so good to see you.

So tomorrow we are to hear closing arguments. Cities are preparing for verdicts, worried about how the public might react. What are you bracing for this week?

[15:05:00]

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think we have to be prepared, Fred, for not just to see protests happening in Minneapolis, but really all over this country because what we saw last summer after George Floyd was killed, we saw protests erupt in every city in this country and really outside of the country.

So we see all of the extra measures that are being taken by officials in Minneapolis. That is happening in other cities throughout this country, because everyone I think, is so afraid that if there is an acquittal of Derek Chauvin, that the community activists and advocates who have been on the streets for months are going to take to the streets to protest what they believe will be -- and I think we all believe to be injustice, a travesty of justice in an acquittal.

WHITFIELD: And the public has been assessing what it has seen, what it heard during this trial. The jury has to now -- the jury has a big job. It has to now determine which aspects of which charges have the burden has been met.

I mean, what is it going to be like for that jury, in your view?

MARTIN: Tremendous pressure, obviously. Even though the Judge has instructed them not to watch the news, not to pay attention to what is happening, they are in the heart of you know, where the protest movements have been happening for months now. So they know the gravity. They know the weight of the decision that they have to make.

And I can't help but think about the 17-year-old bystander, the video that went viral that, you know, gave us an opportunity to witness those nine minutes and 29 seconds. She testified, Fred, that she felt so much guilt, because she didn't do more to intervene.

So I'm wondering if jurors are also having, you know, those same feelings and thinking as the final arbiters of what happened to Derek Chauvin, if they feel a greater sense of responsibility to hold him accountable.

WHITFIELD: Good point. So we are seeing, you know, tensions being manifested in so many different ways across the country. And apparently police have now tied some vandalism in California to a defense witness in this trial, someone apparently spreading animal blood on an address that they thought was his and, you know, and a statue at a nearby mall.

There was also a sign, you know, reading "Oink, oink." You know, what does this tell you about the climate of things? And the kind of pressure that comes with being a juror, being a witness, particularly in a high profile case?

MARTIN: Yes, I think what it says, Fred, is the country is fed up, particularly the African-American community, you know, with what appears to be no action.

We keep seeing these senseless murders, this police violence against African-American communities, against Latino and Latinx communities and there is a sense that nothing is changing, that despite all the marching, despite all the protesting that there's -- you know, the George Floyd Policing Act is deadlocked in Congress.

There's some movement that's happening at local levels, but there's not enough being done to address this form of policing that got us where we are today with this George Floyd killing, and people are saying enough is enough.

So no violence is acceptable, and clearly, testifying in a trial should not make someone the subject of violence. But I think this country has to come to grips with the fact that these Band-Aid solutions are no longer going to be accepted by the public and people want to see wholesale transformation and reimagining of policing in this country.

And until that happens, unfortunately, I think we're going to continue to see the kinds of acts that you described.

WHITFIELD: It's been a tumultuous last few weeks during the trial, tumultuous for the year and beyond.

I mean, we're talking Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks in Atlanta at the Wendy's and Daunte Wright in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota just last week. Different circumstances, all police-involved shootings, in the past year, all publicly debated about why police shot and killed in these instances.

So where do, in your view, the answers lie in how to stop this cycle?

MARTIN: First of all, calling it out. I think we have to acknowledge that there is a different standard of policing when it comes to black and brown communities. We have to acknowledge the structural racism that is this inherent in our justice system.

We can't fix what we don't acknowledge, what we're not willing to acknowledge and I think that's the first step. And then we've got to see at the national level, at the executive level, at the Department of Justice level, I mean, encouraged by Merrick Garland, saying that he is going to reinstitute Consent Decrees.

We saw under the last administration a complete elimination of those Consent Decrees where the Department of Justice goes into police departments, identifies systemic racism and then forces those police departments to make some changes.

It's not the perfect solution, but it definitely is one step in a continuum of solutions, including, you know, rethinking how policing is done, particularly in communities that are over policed at this point, and we see that in black and brown communities and people are quite simply fed up and they are tired and sick and tired -- and you hear this a lot, Fred -- of being sick and tired, and I'm just hopeful that the outcome that Derek Chauvin is found guilty.

I think the robust case that was put on by the prosecution merits a conviction in this case, and that this begins a much more serious conversation about changing policing in this country.

[15:10:23]

WHITFIELD: Sick and tired of being sick and tired, it is a refrain that is repeated, you know, and has been for too many years. Areva Martin, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

MARTIN: Thanks. Thanks, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, so much more to come in the CNN NEWSROOM. The Biden administration sends a warning to Russia. There will be consequences if opposition leader, Alexei Navalny dies.

Also ahead --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are you going to get the vaccine?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It's detrimental to your health. It starts going into conspiracy theory type stuff, but I do. I believe it is Bill Gates and them trying to kill us.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: Why vaccine hesitancy among the evangelical community is

running high.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:08]

WHITFIELD: All right, this just in to CNN, more than 50 percent of the adult population in the U.S. have now received at least one dose of the coronavirus vaccine.

The latest numbers from the C.D.C. show that more than 209 million doses have been administered in total, about a quarter of the population is now fully vaccinated. And experts say about 70 percent of the population has to be fully vaccinated before we reach herd immunity.

But vaccine hesitancy remains as serious of an issue across the nation and evangelicals are among those most skeptical.

Some of that reluctance is being fueled by an influential pastor who was actively discouraging vaccinations. CNN's Elle Reeve went to Louisiana to find out why.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TONY SPELL, PASTOR, LIFE TABERNACLE CHURCH: The anti-mask, and anti- vaccine, this anti-government and I am proud to be anti-government.

REEVE (voice over): As more and more Americans are getting vaccinated, resistance remains strong within one group in particular, white evangelicals.

SPELL: Hallelujah to Jesus.

REEVE (voice over): This hesitancy is driven by a distrust in government, misinformation and political identity. This is not a fringe group, a quarter of Americans are evangelical.

SPELL: You do not give me my rights, sir.

I would rather die free than I had to live on my knees.

REEVE (on camera): How is it living on your knees to take a vaccine?

SPELL: Because you're bowing against your convictions.

REEVE (voice over): Pentecostal Pastor Tony Spell has made a national name for himself, protesting COVID-19 rules in Baton Rouge. He livestreamed himself going under house arrest last spring, for refusing to close his church during lockdown.

While a survey of evangelical leaders finds most would be open to getting the vaccine, Spell is adamantly against it.

REEVE (on camera): If you broke your arm or something, would you go to the doctor?

SPELL: Sure, I'd go to the doctor, and get it set and wear cast.

REEVE: So, like at some level, you trust some doctors?

SPELL: Yes, we do.

REEVE: So, can you just explain where the line is?

SPELL: The line is in this vaccine. Number one, the virus has been a scam from the beginning. It has always been politically motivated from mail-in ballots and voter ID. That's what has got a new administration in the White House today.

REEVE (voice over): White evangelical Christians are more likely than other religious groups to believe in certain conspiracy theories. Like that Trump won the 2020 election or the QAnon theories.

According to a study by the conservative, American Enterprise Institute, the conspiracies about the COVID-19 vaccine can affect everyone else, because public health experts have told us around 70 percent of the population needs to get the vaccine to reach herd immunity, and 28 percent of white evangelical Christians, say they definitely won't get it, with another six percent saying they'll only get it if forced.

SPELL: You have a 99.6 survival rate, why do you want somebody to contaminate your bloodstream with something that may or may not hurt you?

SAMUEL PERRY, SOCIOLOGIST OF RELIGION, UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA: There is a tendency within white Christian nationalism, to want to believe these kinds of conspiracies, because I think it reinforces this idea of an "us versus them".

The problem is, the people who are feeding that fear have an incentive to keep stoking that fear, because people keep clicking and people keep listening.

REEVE (on camera): Is the appeal of your sermon that the pandemic is scary, the virus is scary and so you are telling scared people that you don't have to worry about any of that stuff?

Like come to my Church and God will make sure that you don't get this virus?

SPELL: Yes, I promoted that.

REEVE: Why are you giving them false hope?

SPELL: That's not false hope.

REEVE: Why not?

SPELL: What's false is our lying politicians. REEVE (voice over): Several people told us that they started coming

here after they saw Spell on the news for keeping his church open and liked his message.

JEFF JACKSON, LIFE TABERNACLE CHURCH PARISHIONER: I was worried about not going to church and going back to alcohol and drugs.

The aim for this whole shutdown was the church, because we are the radical right. We don't believe in gay marriage, we don't believe in abortion, all of that.

REEVE (on camera): Are you going to get the vaccine?

JACKSON: No.

REEVE: It's detrimental to your health. It starts going into conspiracy, scary type stuff, but I do, I believe that it is Bill Gates and them trying to kill us.

JACOB MCMORRIS, LIFE TABERNACLE CHURCH PARISHIONER: I feel like, and I know it works medically, but when you put something in you to help you stop from getting it, you know, that just -- that just doesn't work for me. I've never liked the idea of that.

PATRICIA SEAL, LIFE TABERNACLE CHURCH PARISHIONER: Donald Trump, I love him to death. I would vote for him again. But when he was talking about getting the shot, I said, you can have it all you want, I don't want it.

REEVE: Are you going to get the vaccine?

KERRY WILLIAMS, LIFE TABERNACLE CHURCH PARISHIONER: I did already.

REEVE: Oh, you did?

WILLIAMS: This is my first one, I have got to go back and do the second one. Yes, I've got the vaccine.

REEVE: Okay, good.

WILLIAMS: That's right.

SPELL: There is a political group today that wants to apologize for being Americans.

REEVE (voice over): Spell preaches conservative politics, but his congregation isn't unusually diverse compared to typical Christian churches, in part, because he buses in people from all over town.

[15:20:06]

REEVE (on camera): One reason why I think it's interesting, these two positions you have, the importance of desegregation and your opposition to the vaccine is that many of the people you minister to, which is admirable, are poor people of color.

SPELL: Yes.

REEVE: Well, those people tend to be most at risk for COVID. So, why not encourage them to take the medicine that will protect them?

SPELL: I do not only do not encourage, I discouraged. I don't know anybody in my church, black, brown, El Salvadoran, Honduran, Mexican who had the virus, and with thousands and thousands and thousands --

REEVE: Your father said he had the virus. Your father and mother told me they had the virus.

SPELL: Yes, and that's all right. Maybe we had it and maybe we got it.

REEVE: They also said your very grandfather got a vaccine.

SPELL: And I'm opposed to that, I did not promote that. I think he was foolish for taking the vaccine.

PERRY: Christian leaders on the right, people like Tony Spell, have really bought into this idea that if I continue to sow this narrative, where people feel victimized and fearful and angry, then I can continue to build my audience. I've built my own credibility, in this group of people that says, yes, everybody else is untrustworthy but you.

REEVE: I just don't understand why you can't say like, the church was essential. It is so important for so many people.

SPELL: The church, the church is essential.

REEVE: But, what a miracle that we have these vaccines that would allow people to celebrate more safely.

SPELL: Never will say that. There is no backing up.

REEVE: It just feels like you're taking a political position.

SPELL: It's not political at all. I'm not a politician, I'm a prophet.

Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah.

REEVE: Elle Reeve, CNN, Baton Rouge.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: I want to bring in now, Dr. Gigi El-Bayoumi, a medical professor at the George Washington University School of Medicine.

Dr. El-Bayoumi, so good to see you. So how do you combat that sentiment when you are advocating for more people to be vaccinated?

DR. GIGI EL-BAYOUMI, MEDICAL PROFESSOR, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Sure. Well, good afternoon. As a member of the Black Coalition against COVID Steering Committee and the Founding Director of the Rodham Institute, I think, first you have to meet people where they are. Part of the reason of hesitancy or reluctance is that people don't

have the information. Now, the group that we were sort of focusing on are African-Americans.

I think it's also important not to put everybody in the same group, right? Because we know that senior African-Americans, for example, are getting vaccinated. The group that is more reluctant are the group between 18 and 45.

So what we started with first and foremost is education. So, we had a recent mass vaccination event. And guess what? We did seven 90-minutes sessions, so that people can ask questions. We discussed a lot of s--

WHITFIELD: And this is what you did in Washington recently? You had a big event where you were able to answer questions, and at the same time advocate for people getting vaccinated.

EL-BAYOUMI: Exactly. We actually ended up vaccinating 886 people, which was amazing in Ward 8, and that is one of the poorest sections of town, predominantly African-American, but I think the key is this: we did a lot of advanced work. And we also said, we're giving you the best information that we have now.

WHITFIELD: And what do you mean, the advanced work?

EL-BAYOUMI: A very transparent --

WHITFIELD: The advanced work involved, like this is Q&A, we just want to answer all your questions first, and then we're going to bring the resources and administer the vaccinations.

EL-BAYOUMI: Exactly. And the advanced work leaders were not just the clinicians doing the education, it was the community based organizations that work and serve the people of Ward 8. So it was a train the trainer, as well as open fora to allow people to ask questions.

WHITFIELD: So you feel that made the difference in, you know, what became a pretty sizable turnout for people to get their vaccinations, so then what about in the case of what -- about 850 doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine were administered? And of course, now there's a pause because of you know, some of the reports of blood clotting.

Do you anticipate that you're going to hear from many of those recipients of those vaccines who are going to say, wait a minute, I thought, you know, I should feel comfortable with this. But now, hearing about this, I'm almost waiting for something to happen to me.

What do you say to people who are -- who now have new concerns whether they got the Johnson & Johnson or whether this is a potential setback for those who had some hesitancy about vaccines overall.

EL-BAYOUMI: Look, we're on the community for all times, not just prior to the event, during the event but also after the event. So we reached back out to our community-based organizations and said,

what are you hearing from, you know, the residents or clients? And they said, you know, not a whole lot.

[15:25:13]

EL-BAYOUMI: I said, do we need to do a town hall? No, we don't really think that we need to. Maybe we can put out a flyer.

And you know what that comes down to? That comes down to trust. Trust of the people that we're educating them. And I personally said, I would never offer anything that I wouldn't do myself or recommend for my family.

So my niece, my nephew, and my brother all got the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. And actually, now we're two weeks out, and of course, the perspective of telling people, one in seven million deaths, right, versus the death rate and in D.C., 84 percent of the people that have died are African-American.

I think the approach of being transparent, not being a know-it-all, making sure that the message is coming from people that are trusted from the community.

And I would say this regarding the evangelical piece, I think that there are lots of evangelical leadership that is actually okay and willing to get the vaccine. I think that they should be the ones that are getting out the message. They're the trusted leaders in the community.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I'm still stuck on that number now, you gave about 85 percent of the deaths of COVID in D.C. are African-American in a city that now is looking at what -- the black population is somewhere between 60 and 70 percent. So, I mean, that disparity is still very troubling.

All right, Doctor.

EL-BAYOUMI: Yes. But you know, if I could just add one more thing, we've got free Uber rides. We've got free childcare. We had food. We had people holistically taken care of.

WHITFIELD: All right.

EL-BAYOUMI: And that was successful.

WHITFIELD: All right, very good. All right. Dr. Gigi El-Bayoumi, thanks so much. Good to see you. Appreciate it.

EL-BAYOUMI: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. When we come back, protesters will soon gather again to demand justice for 13-year-old, Adam Toledo who was shot and killed by Chicago Police. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:31:36]

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. Soon, marchers will gather in Chicago to again protest the police shooting of 13-year-old Adam Toledo. Chicago Police body cam footage shows the moment a police officer made a split second decision to fatally shoot the boy after police say he was seen holding a gun at the end of a chase last month.

CNN's Ryan Young in Chicago. Ryan, what more do we know about today's protests? And what are marchers calling for today?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the marches are calling for some sort of action. They want justice. And as you can see, there's a growing Memorial here. People can't understand how this young man lost his life. And of course, they've seen the video but some people feel like something else could have been done.

Fred, we're hearing that over and over again throughout the community in terms of just the anger, and there is a lot of talk about CPD abuse. And of course, there's that mistrust in the police department.

The peace walk should happen within about an hour and a half or so, but I want to show you something. You can see people working on a Memorial, even as we speak right now. They want Adam Toledo's name out there in the news as much as possible.

Take a look at this video, though. The police department says that he had a gun as he was running away from police, and that the officer made a split second decision.

This is a terrible video to watch. The police department says you can clearly see the gun in his hand. So both sides obviously has something to say here. But at the end of the day, you're talking about a community that is mourning a 13-year-old, and Fred, we hear it over and over again that they believe that something should be done in terms of how people are policing in this particular neighborhood and this Peace March is about that as well.

WHITFIELD: All right, let us know -- looking at that tape, it is just so hard for anybody to see. But it is critical in trying to understand what happened and why. Thank you so much, Ryan Young.

All right, closing arguments begin tomorrow in the Derek Chauvin murder trial, and the outcome of this case may shape policing in America.

Cornell William Brooks is the former President and CEO of the NAACP. He is also the Executive Producer of the CNN series, "The People v The Klan, which concludes later on tonight here on CNN, and we're going to talk about that in a moment. It's a very powerful set of stories about this incredible woman.

So listen now to these pleas on local officials to target the benefits and pensions of officers accused in police brutality cases as a way of punishing and holding them accountable. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MAXINE WATERS (D-CA): Mayors and the City Council people, Commissioners all over this country have got to rein in the police.

They have their budgets. They get overtime pay. They make sure that they have terrific benefits. They can cut all of that out.

And so it is up to the local City Council members, the Police Chief -- not the Police Chief, because the Police Chiefs are mostly intimidated by the police unions.

And so, it is their elected officials -- they have got to rein in the police.

VALERIE CASTILE, PHILANDO CASTILE'S MOTHER: These guys keep doing what they're doing because they're not losing anything. They lose absolutely nothing because the bottom line is, taxpayers pay those settlements.

You know, the police are not paying those settlements. The community, the public is paying those settlements and they get their pension.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[15:35:06]

WHITFIELD: And what do you think about those proposals? And is that at the root of trying to hold officers accountable?

CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS, FORMER PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: Fredricka, that is certainly one route. When we think about this, that our black and brown bodies who are young are not bulletproof. But police contracts are seemingly bulletproof as an impenetrable to logic and reason and compassion, which is to say you have a profession where we have little young, black men who are killed seemingly with impunity by the police, Latino, young men, and in this case in Chicago, a boy, a seventh grader, a 13-year-old.

And so we need to have a conversation about holding police accountable in terms of pensions, in terms of benefits, in terms of the size of their contracts, in terms of qualified immunity.

In other words, why should you be protected, both by virtue of insurance settlements that taxpayers pay out and a pension for life in terms of your retirement?

We've got to bring reason and compassion and thoughtfulness to this because what other profession -- what other profession do you get to kill somebody and collect a pension?

WHITFIELD: So the officer who shot Daunte Wright has been charged with second degree manslaughter after police say, you know, she mistook her handgun for a Taser when she shot and killed him.

But for the victim's family, the charges against the officer can't bring back their son. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE WRIGHT, MOTHER OF DAUNTE WRIGHT: I'm never going to get justice. Justice would be bringing my son home to me. Justice would have been my son driving to the carwash and coming home after that. I'm not going to get that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: For -- too many families grieving. I mean, what does justice look like?

BROOKS: Well, for someone who has lost their child, and we hear these families over and over again, justice would be resurrection. That is literally bringing their dead children back to life. Short of that, we can't secure complete justice, but we can ensure accountability.

That is to say those who engage in reckless conduct, who engage in a form of policing that literally violates and subjects people to violence are held accountable.

So in other words, wherein a veteran police officer reaches for -- allegedly reaches for a Taser, which looks different, which feels different, which weighs differently relative to a gun and kills someone in a routine traffic stop. You've got to have accountability. And that may not mean like -- that may not feel like justice in terms of people who have lost their children, their loved ones, but accountability could make a difference.

WHITFIELD: Okay. It's the only thing.

All right, let's talk about tonight's conclusion to "The People v. The Klan." Let's listen to some moms talk about the importance of this original series which centers on the little known true story of Beulah Mae Donald, a black mother in Alabama, who really took on the Ku Klux Klan after the brutal 1981 murder of her son.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why aren't more of these stories told?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Perhaps with this 21st Century movement, where we are reminding people that Black Lives Matter, perhaps black mothers might be able to sleep a little easier.

I am optimistic. People are ready.

SARAH COLLINS RUDOLPH, SURVIVOR, 16TH STREET CHURCH BOMBING: We just have got to love one another and turn away from all this hatred.

OLLIE GORDON, EMMETT TILL'S COUSIN: We cannot forget, we cannot forget and we must continue to fight.

GWEN CARR, ERIC GARNER'S MOTHER: We are trying to save our children. We're trying to save our future generations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: So do you share optimism after helping to get this story out there and this mother's plight out there?

BROOKS: Absolutely. My optimism and I believe the optimism many people in this country rest not with how small the problem is because the problem is quite large. It has everything to do with how large we deem the courage of people like Mamie Till back in 1955, Beulah Donald in 1981 and so many black mothers in 2021 who are standing up, lifting up their voices, demanding accountability, demanding justice, going to the courts, going before the media and literally pressing the case that we can do things differently.

So our optimism, our hope, literally rests on the courage, the conviction, the bravery of ordinary people who are doing extraordinary things in this moment.

[15:40:04]

BROOKS: So the film really speaks to a hope that is earned by the sacrifice and commitment of mothers.

WHITFIELD: Well, you did an extraordinary thing by bringing this to the attention of many. Cornell William Brooks, thank you so much.

BROOKS: It is good to be with you.

WHITFIELD: Thank you.

Don't miss this powerful conclusion of "The People v. The Klan" with back-to-back episodes tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on CNN.

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WHITFIELD: Former National Security Adviser Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster calls President Biden's plan to withdraw from Afghanistan a, quote, "utter disaster."

Joining me right now is Bob Baer, a CNN Intelligence and Security Analyst and a former C.I.A. operative. So good to see you, Bob. So there's some a lot of criticism being hurled now. We're learning that there are two Defense officials and a senior U.S. official who say the planned withdrawal from Afghanistan will likely unwind an extensive Intelligence and covert action network that was established over two decades. So how extensive is that network? And what do you see the consequences potentially?

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BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Fred, there are very few. That's a paramilitary force, which has been decidedly unsuccessful since we invaded in 2001. It's meant to fight the Taliban, it's been losing in the field.

Paramilitary forces like that are very bad at collecting Intelligence. So if they're pulled out of there, we're not losing much. And that does not to mention that the Taliban is a cult, which is almost impossible to get into. They're going to do what they want to do and we're not going to know until they do it. Unfortunately, that's been the truth going back to the 90s, so it's not a big loss.

WHITFIELD: So it sounds like you feel mission accomplished. The U.S. set out to Afghanistan after 9/11 to seek out Osama bin Laden to dismantle or disrupt al-Qaeda. That was done, and so now it's time for the U.S. to leave.

BAER: Oh, I think absolutely. Let's not forget the Taliban did not attack us in 9/11. It was al-Qaeda. Yes, you've got the Islamic State there. It could rise up again.

But Fred, come on, let's face it, we've lost -- we've lost the war in the sense of pacifying the country. We wanted getting Osama bin Laden, let's get out. McMaster is wrong. He had many years in the White House to do something about this and didn't. We're losing ground.

WHITFIELD: Okay, let's talk about Russia now. National Security adviser, Jake Sullivan told our Dana Bash this morning that there will be consequences if Navalny dies. What could the consequences be?

BAER: Well, number one, we could still -- there are more sanctions we could impose on Russia on secondary debt markets, which would hurt the Russians. We could send more arms to Ukraine. There are all sorts of things we could do.

The last thing this administration wants to do is escalate, but there all sorts of tools in the chest that can be pulled out and Russia will pay the price, and it's a question of what's going on in Putin's mind. Will he retaliate in a major way? Will he send more troops into Eastern Ukraine? That we don't know. We're going to have to wait and see.

But it looks like he intends to let this man die in jail, which will cause all sorts of problems.

WHITFIELD: I mean, it almost seems like that was probably the objective to put him in jail as soon as he got back into Russia because the poisoning after he recovered from that that didn't work.

So now, I don't -- yes, I don't think anyone expected the outcome to be that welcoming.

BAER: Any different.

WHITFIELD: Right. Bob Baer, thank you so much.

BAER: Exactly.

WHITFIELD: We're back in a moment.

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[15:52:29] WHITFIELD: A rookie cop in Arkansas has seen more on the job than most

of the people he protects and serves have seen in their entire lives. CNN's Martin Savidge has this week's "Beyond the Call of Duty."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): When Officer L.C. "Buckshot" Smith --

L.C. "BUCKSHOT" SMITH, NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH COORDINATOR, CAMDEN POLICE: How you all doing?

SAVIDGE (voice over): Says he knows almost everyone in Camden, Arkansas.

SMITH: Hey, Benny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, what's going on?

SAVIDGE (voice over): Population 11,000.

SMITH: Good to see you all.

SAVIDGE (voice over): It's true.

SMITH: All right.

SAVIDGE (voice over): At 91, he spent more time protecting and serving than many residents have been alive, 56 years.

SAVIDGE (on camera): You ever missed a day of work?

SMITH: No. Not -- just day off.

SAVIDGE (voice over): For more than four decades, he was a Deputy with the Washita County Sheriff's Department.

SAVIDGE (on camera): First time you retired, how long did that last?

SMITH: Thirty days.

SAVIDGE: Thirty days.

SAVIDGE (voice over): So in his 80s, he became a rookie cop on the Camden Police Department.

SMITH: I love to meet people, help people, and do things for people.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Chief Boyd Woody is Buckshot's boss.

CHIEF BOYD WOODY, CAMDEN, ARKANSAS POLICE: So my first year in law enforcement in the jail and Mr. Smith was my supervisor. He was over at the jail at that time.

SAVIDGE (on camera): So he was your boss.

WOODY: He was my boss. Yes.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Officer Smith starts each day at 7:00 a.m.

SMITH: I am about to check in, 15 to 20 minutes ahead of time.

SAVIDGE (on camera): You're always early.

SMITH: Yes.

SAVIDGE: Somehow, I'm not surprised.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Patrolling neighborhoods, escorting school buses, investigations.

SAVIDGE (on camera): How many arrests have you made?

SMITH: I've taken more people home than I arrest and took to jail.

SAVIDGE: So you try to come up with another way.

SMITH: Yes, yes.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Role model, just maybe officers miss the most important job, especially to younger officers.

MAYOR JULIAN LOTT, CAMDEN, ARKANSAS: Some of them come looking at policing as they saw it on TV, looking at policing as they sit in a big city.

This is a community.

SMITH: I tell them all, it is bad and gone. No. Making no foolish stuff. You've got to respect folks. I want to be treated right, and I figure you want to be treated right.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Next month, Officer Smith will turn 92. The town is planning a parade.

SAVIDGE (on camera): Do you ever think you will retire?

SMITH: When the Good Lord says so.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Officer L.C. "Buckshot" Smith serving beyond the call because serving is his calling.

And just about everyone in town knows it.

SMITH: All right.

SAVIDGE (voice over): Martin Savidge, CNN, Camden, Arkansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: L.C. "Buckshot" Smith, a name not to forget.

All right, thank you so much for joining me this weekend. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. The CNN NEWSROOM with Jim Acosta is next.

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