Return to Transcripts main page

At This Hour

Prosecution Gives Closing Argument in Chauvin Murder Trial. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired April 19, 2021 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

STEVE SCHLEICHER, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Extreme emotional response.

[11:00:03]

You know, recall when Officer Lane approached the car, George Floyd talked about losing his mother. He lost her in 2018. Those wounds still right there on the surface. Emotion.

It could involve a divorce. Finding bad financial news, right? Mental illness, mental health issues like drug and alcohol abuse. All of those thins can cause someone to not resist but just not be able to bring themselves to comply at that moment at that time.

And this is nothing new. They train for it. They plan for it. They prepare for it. They have a policy on it, right? Recognizing person's in crisis.

You remember, Chief Arradondo took the stand, he testified. He testified that they have 4,000 calls for service for persons in crisis every single year. This is nothing new.

They're there on a $20 counterfeiting charge. They train for this. They know about this.

Now, George Floyd certainly had struggles. You know that. The state put into evidence of that. Courtney Ross testified that he struggled with opioid addiction. You know that. And this is nothing new.

The difference though, on May 25, 2020, the officer just wouldn't listen to him. Wouldn't look at the signs and recognize the signs of what they had prepared for. And a reasonable officer and the defendant's place with all his training and all of his experience, including that 40-hour crisis intervention course and subsequent refresher course, should have known that and should have recognized it.

Floyd was trying to get into the car. He was trying to work up the courage. He said he would count to three. He just couldn't do it.

So the defendant arrives on the scene. He surveys the scene. He gets to the car and he slips on his gloves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't win, bro.

(INAUDIBLE)

GEORGE FLOYD: Please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't win.

FLOYD: I'm not trying to win. I'm not trying to win.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go get in the car.

FLOYD: I'll get on the ground, anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go get in the car!

(CROSSTALK)(

POLICE OFFICER: I'll go to the other side.

FLOYD: He knows. He know it too Mr. Officer, don't do me like that, man. Please.

POLICE OFFICER: Get in this car, man!

FLOYD: Can I talk to you please?

POLICE OFFICER: If you get in this car, we talk!

FLOYD: I am. I'm claustrophobic. I'm claustrophobic.

POLICE OFFICER: I'm hearing you, but you're not working with me.

FLOYD: God, I'm claustrophobic, man.

(CROSSTLAK)

FLOYD: Can I get in the front, please?

POLICE OFFICER: No, you're not getting in the front.

FLOYD: I'm claustrophobic, Mr. Officer.

POLICE OFFICER: Get in the car.

FLOYD: Okay, man. Okay. I'm not a bad guy, man.

POLICE OFFICER: Get in the car.

FLOYD: I'm not a bad guy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not going to win!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHLEICHER: So they don't listen. They just shove him into the car, into that tiny backseat. You saw the look on his face. You saw the look on George Floyd's face

when he glanced over into that car, looked like he had seen a monster, looking into that car.

Clearly this trained officer should have recognized that and understood that moment and that time, what is your goal? Where this critical thinking model go? Where that go? Where you take in information. You assess the information. You reassess the information. You consider what's the goal? What's the plan?

You're there for a $20 counterfeiting charge, allegedly. Chief Arradondo testified they generally don't put people in custody for that. So, why is it necessary to shove them in the car?

They made a judgment call. They decided to shove him in the car. The predictable thing to happen, happened, right? He just couldn't be in the back of that car. And so they pull him out. They pull him out.

And watch what happens. They pull him out of the car.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLOYD: Please, man. I can't fucking breathe.

POLICE OFFICER: Come on out.

FLOYD: Thank you. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

POLICE OFFICER: Just lay him on the ground. On the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHLEICHER: All right, folks. They get him out of the car. He is handcuffed. He is on his knees. He is not going anywhere. There are four officers there, four officers.

And what did George Floyd say once they pulled him out of the car? Thank you. Thank you.

Now a reasonable officer in the defendant's position at that time should have recognized and understood he wasn't trying to escape.

[11:05:07]

He wasn't trying to punch anyone, stab anyone. No. He wasn't trying to do that. The problem was the back of the car.

So if you can give them the benefit of the doubt that they made a bad judgment call and shoved him in the back of the car, at least when he came out in the struggle. It was over. He was on his knees saying thank you. Done. No need. It could have been over there.

But what did they do? They took him from this position handcuffed on his knees and pushed him down to the ground. Didn't need to. Not at all. For what? He's handcuffed.

They pushed him down into what is you now know from watching the evidence in this case the prone recovery position. I mean, when he's down on the ground, he is initially pushed. He is literally in the prone recovery position, on the side. That allows the chest to expand and provides room for the lungs to expand and take in air so they can breathe.

That is a step that protects against the known danger of positional asphyxia. And they have him there. He's right there. So then what happens after?

They take him incredibly out of the recovery position and prone him on the ground. For what? A prone position is a transitory position. It's a position you use to secure someone in handcuffs and when you're done with that, you immediately roll them on their side.

That's the position he was in. Proning him was completely unnecessary. And this is where the excessive force begins, right? This is where the 9:29 starts. Because they didn't just lay him prone. They did not do that.

They stayed on top of him. With a knee on the neck and a knee on the back and the defendant's weight on Mr. Floyd pushing down with Officer Keung adding to the pressure, pushing down, holding his feet, Officer Lane holding his feet for 9:29. That's when the excessive force began. That's when the countdown began.

Now, you need to sort of pull back and take a look. You learned a lot about policies and procedures and tactics. You have to pull back and say, would but for the defendant's actions pushing him down, George Floyd have died that day?

Was it drugs? He just miraculously died of a drug overdose in that time? Maybe it was the tailpipe? Maybe it was his enlarged heart.

Maybe not. Use your common sense. Use your common sense. Believe your eyes what you saw you saw.

Now I'm going to talk to you a little bit about the law. The judge already instructed you. And it's necessary to go over this a couple of times and you learned you got -- you got to go to medical school here as jurors.

There are so many benefits to being a jury. You've got to -- you've got to go to medical school. You got that free parking, great lunches, fabulous pay.

So now you get a little bit of a free law school education. The judge gave you a preview of that. We're going to go through that again. He's going to give you a copy of those instructions. You have them. You've got to keep those and use those during your jury deliberations.

He told you that, you know, you have to decide these issues in any order. You can do it the way you all see fit. I'll be making some suggestions as to the order I think you should do things, lay focus your deliberations and just make the conversation a little easier, a little more focused.

But you have these jury instructions as your guide. I think it's important for you to follow the judge's instructions to the letter, right? The words and definitions that the judge gives you, they mean what the judge says they mean.

And know that the state is required to prove these charges beyond a reasonable doubt. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. He read this to you.

Proof beyond a reasonable doubt is proof as ordinarily prudent men and women would act upon in their most important affairs.

[11:10:03]

And a reasonable doubt is based on reason and common sense. Not a fanciful or capricious doubt or beyond all possibility of doubt. So, a reasonable doubt, it's just as the name implies. It's a doubt that's reasonable, a doubt based on reason and common sense.

You as jurors are not required nor should you leave your common sense at the courthouse steps. As jurors, you must rely on your common sense. That's why you're here. We need you to apply that standard to these facts and to be a judge of the facts and apply those facts, findings of facts to the law.

And so proof beyond a reasonable doubt is certainly a high standard. It's a highest standard. Its a standard that the state has met here.

And the state does not need to prove its case beyond all doubt. It does not need to prove its case beyond what I'll call an unreasonable doubt. Not required to prove beyond an unreasonable doubt.

An unreasonable doubt is a doubt not based on common sense but based on nonsense. And you're not required to accept nonsense.

You're not required to accept the notion that after the defendant kneeling on Mr. Floyd for 9:29 in a dangerous prone position, handcuffed, restrained, pressing down on him, that after that as he was writhing in pain and suffering, that that's not even a use of force, like that that's a no force there, because it's not likely to produce pain. A witness testified to that.

You're not required to believe something that just flies in the face of common sense, to believe that you would have to completely abandon all notion of common sense not likely to produce pain. You don't have to accept someone who says that. You'd be better off asking a 9-year- old.

You're not required to accept the proposition that that car did it, that the car killed George Floyd. You're not required to accept that. Or to consider that it is the bystanders' fault for distracting the defendant.

You're not required to believe this amazing coincidence that after this 9:29 prone restraint, that at that point in time even though he was walking and talking, even though he was breathing, interacting with people, that he chose that moment to die of heart disease? To die of heart disease? Is that common sense or is that nonsense?

Or that it was a drug overdose?

You know that George Floyd struggled with drug addiction and drug use. You know that. You know he developed -- requires a tolerance. You know what the toxicology report says in terms of the levels. You know what the testimony was about that.

He didn't die of a drug overdose. That's not common sense. That's nonsense. Believe your eyes.

What you saw happen happened. It happened. The defendant pressed down on George Floyd. So, his lungs does not have the room to breathe. Dr. Tobin told you that.

Dr. Smock, Dr. Rich, the experts, the experts testified. You can rely on them. Dr. Smock, Dr. Rich, Dr. Isenschmid.

They said like that commercial, right? They know a thing or two because they have seen a thing or two. They know a thing or two.

Dr. Tobin knows a thing or two. About how this works.

So looking at the charges and this is a little bit of a different layout than you see in the printed jury instructions, and they're not intended to replicate the instructions completely. But it's meant to be sort of a guide for you to look at the different elements in a particular context.

And so, the charge of murder in second degree murder, and the third degree manslaughter, and second degree, the judge read you, you know, what the law says those things are. And the law breaks down these different charges into things called elements -- first element, second element, third element, fourth element.

And each of these has to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt by the state in order for the defendant to be guilty of those charges. Now those are the elements that are required. Those are the only elements that are required.

You know, again, like other preconceived notions you may have some ideas, you know, from watching TV, about other cases and shows and things you may have some other ideas as to what the law requires.

[11:15:11]

But again, you know, just like, you know how it's lunch time in court. The judge tells you it's lunch time. You know when it is time to go. The judge tells you it's time to go.

Same thing. You know what the charges are. You know what the elements are because the judge tells you what the elements are. So you need to follow that, OK? So, talking about murder in the second degree, first, the death of George Floyd must be proved. And then it must be proved that the defendant caused the death of George Floyd. And the fact that other causes may have contributed to George Floyd's death does not relieve the defendant of any criminal liability. It just does not.

And for murder in the second degree, that the defendant at the time of causing George Floyd's death was committing or attempting to commit assault in the third degree. That's a felony assault under the laws of Minnesota.

And assault -- showed the defendant assaulted George Floyd and intentionally applied unlawful force to Mr. Floyd without Mr. Floyd's consent resulting in bodily harm. State has to show that. State did show that, the assault.

And that the defendant inflicted substantial bodily harm on George Floyd. And that this act took place on or about May 25, 2020 in, Hennepin County.

So, as for the first element, George Floyd died. That was established. That was established by the emergency room physician. D. Langenfeld (ph), George Floyd was pronounced dead at the Hennepin County Memorial Hospital on May 25, 2020. So that element is met.

And again, you can consider these elements any way you want to consider them. My suggestion is that you consider them in the order as listed here, murder two, murder three, manslaughter, and second degree and in order of the elements just because -- and there's a lot here. You know, 38 witnesses who testified. There are a lot of exhibits offered.

And its easy to talk about everything at the same time. It really is. But it will help focus your deliberations if you look at these different elements in order to have sort of a logical way to focus your deliberations. So, I encourage you to do that, but you can do it any way you want, OK?

Second element, that the defendant caused the death of George Floyd. Causation? What does that -- what does mean? What's causation mean here?

It means that the defendant's act or acts were substantial causal factors, substantial causal factor in causing the death. He is criminally liable for all of the consequences of his actions that naturally occur, right, including the consequences brought about by intervening causes.

The fact that other causes may have contributed to George Floyd's death does not relieve the defendant of criminal liability. You have to find as the nine minutes and 29 seconds of compression on his knee with his knees on his neck and on his back, being held down was a substantial factor in George Floyd's death.

Now, if there was a superseding cause, then the defendant wouldn't be criminally liable. But the superseding cause are -- those are cause that's common after the defendant's acts and alters the natural sequences of events and -- and is the sole cause of death. And we don't have that here. We know how George Floyd died.

This is the use of force. When we talk about use of force, that's been defined by the different witnesses who testified looking at what happened from the point the knee went to the neck and back and unlawful restraint, the assault started, and how long it lasted, nine minutes and 29 seconds.

That's what George Floyd -- that's what killed George Floyd. That's why he died. Believe your eyes. But unreasonable force pinning him to the ground, that's what killed him.

This was a homicide. You heard this from forensic pathologist, the experts. You've heard this. And the experts weighed in.

And, you know, Dr. Langenfeld told you that Mr. Floyd died. Dr. Baker ruled this a homicide and told you the cause and manner of death.

[11:20:04]

The unlawful -- the restraint and subdual by law enforcement, what they did killed him, told you that.

Dr. Tobin, remember Dr. Tobin, he told you specifically how it happened. He walked you through that. The asphyxia, right? He told you how it he told you how it happened.

And the other doctors you testified, Dr. Smock, Dr. Rich, Dr. Isenschmid, they told you how it didn't happen. It wasn't a sudden cardiac event. It wasn't a heart attack. It wasn't a drug overdose. It wasn't any of those things, right?

Dr. Tobin came back and explained it wasn't carbon monoxide, right? No.

So, you know how George Floyd died. And you heard this. But specifically, you know, Dr. Tobin provided fairly extensive detail and was very clear that George Floyd died as a result of a low level of oxygen, low level of oxygen caused the brain injury, and a PEA arrhythmia which caused his heart to stop.

It's not a cardiac event. It's not that his heart disease, right, that didn't cause him to die. It was the low level of oxygen. It was the asphyxia that caused him to die, right? And we know tat that happened, because they what happened because they observed during the restraint at 20:24:21, right -- well, they observed an anoxic seizure, right? A telltale sign of oxygen depravation.

Dr. Tobin told you that. Even Dr. Fowler told you that.

And after Mr. Floyd experienced the seizure, he passed out, after his pulse stopped, his heart stopped. That cardiopulmonary arrest that, was the result the police subdual and restraint and neck compression. We know from Dr. Tobin, George Floyd did not die primarily from a cardiac event as has been suggested. Now, George Floyd who is not in perfect health, sure he had narrowed

arteries, high blood pressure, no question about that. He was no question he was experiencing stress. Even before the officer shoved him on to the sidewalk unnecessarily, gratuitously, disproportionately.

But none of this caused George Floyd's heart to fail. It did not. His heart failed because the defendant's use of force, the 9:29, right, that deprived Mr. Floyd of the oxygen that owe needed, that humans need to live.

And Dr. Tobin knows because he is a pulmonologist. He is a lung doctor. He's a lung doctor.

He is also a respiratory physiologist. He is the only person who testified that is able to calculate lung capacity, lung volume. He could do that.

Dr. Baker couldn't do it. He deferred to the pulmonologist. Pulmonologist, Dr. Tobin.

Dr. Fowler couldn't do it. He said he would defer to a pulmonologist.

And Dr. Tobin who also happens to be a critical care physician, he spent years he treating patients, treating patients in intensive care who experiencing respiratory failure. And Dr. Tobin literally wrote the book on the subject.

And he was able to tell you, right, what this looks like. What he was able to observe.

What he was able to observe was oxygen depravation, was asphyxia. It was asphyxia. Because under the conditions that Mr. Floyd was being restrained, that the defendant put him in, that cut off his oxygen, it would have cut off oxygen of someone who was perfectly healthy, anyone. The force that were used that situation, right, involved multiple factors.

George Floyd was handcuffed. (AUDIO GAP). He was placed prone, shoved prone on the sidewalk. The knees pushing on his back and neck downward, the pavement, a force on the pavement being unyielding, it was like he was in a vice, that he was being squeezed in a vice.

And he calculated, right, between Chauvin, the defendant, Officer Keung, pushing down on him approximately 90 pounds of force. And the position and the force behind such that it was if, it was as if George Floyd's left lung (AUDIO GAP) surgically removed.

That is how much of a reduction of air capacity there was here.

[11:25:00]

To the point that Mr. Floyd was desperately trying to make space to breathe, pushing his shoulder, pushing his face against the pavement to lift up to give space to breathe. His lung capacity based on Dr. Tobin's calculation had just been in the prone position, even though you heard some studies from the defense saying, you know, prone position isn't dangerous.

Well, Dr. Tobin disagreed. He said that the lung capacity was reduced by 24 percent just by the prone position, 43 percent when you consider the additional pressure.

Now, Dr. Tobin's opinion corroborates the police training and what the police have known for 30 years. The danger, right? That there's a danger to the prone position, and the danger is positional asphyxia.

And the danger -- the worst thing that can happen with positional asphyxia is death. And it wasn't just the lungs, the pressing up against the neck. Remember when you touch that. It reduced the capacity of air flow such that it was as if Mr. Floyd was breathing through a straw, right?

The shallow breaths did not produce enough oxygen. Not enough oxygen could get to the lungs. And that's what killed George Floyd.

And here's what didn't. Here's what didn't. This wasn't a sudden cardiac arrhythmia, right? Dr. Smock told you that. Dr. Thomas, Dr. Rich, Dr. Tobin, they agreed, not a sudden cardiac arrhythmia. That's not how this looks.

Dr. Baker, no medical evidence of a heart attack, OK? We heard from Dr. Rich. Dr. Rich actually treats people who have heart attacks, and he found there was nothing on his -- in his review, nothing in George Floyd's heart to suggest that the death originated from the heart. Nothing.

You know, over the course of this case, you heard a lot of things that didn't happen. and hypotheticals that don't apply, right? You know why George Floyd died. You know how he died.

You heard a lot about drugs. You heard about his struggle with addiction. There's some things -- you know, George Floyd is obviously not a perfect man. Who is? No one is, right?

So you heard about drugs. You heard about drugs in the car, pills in the car. And in the squad car, in his car. You heard questions about is he chewing gum? Does he have a pill in his mouth? Based on his -- none of that matters.

You know what his level -- the drug level was. You know that from the toxicology report. If drugs are found in the car, they're not in George Floyd's system. There is no point about talking about those, right?

Let's talk about what is in his system and the toxicology report. You heard from the Dr. Isenschmid, right, in what he testified was that George Floyd's fentanyl to norfentanyl ratio, that metabolite, norfentanyl, that was well below the ratio of people who die from a fentanyl overdose. It was even below the median.

And George Floyd's methamphetamine level, that was 94 percent lower than the group for driving -- population for driving under the influence. And Dr. Rich and Dr. Smock, they treated patients who were under the influence of both fentanyl and methamphetamine and they testified, these drugs did not kill George Floyd. They didn't.

We know that he had a tolerance because he used drugs in the past and the experts all agreed, the video shows that George Floyd did not die the way someone who dies from a fentanyl overdose dies. His breathing, that didn't slow down, right? He didn't fall asleep. He didn't go into a coma. No.

This looked nothing like a fatal fentanyl overdose. Dr. Tobin, the only doctor in this case who actually calculated George Floyd's respiratory rate and the best doctor to do so given his training and given his experience, he stated that the fentanyl in George Floyd's system did not depress his respiration. It didn't.

He did not die of drug overdose. That's not how he died. He didn't die of excited delirium. You heard about excited delirium, right.

Dr. Smock testified about excited delirium. Told you, explained to you he didn't -- George Floyd did not exhibit any of the signs of excited delirium, one of which being super human strengths.

Nonsense. There's no super human strengths. There are no super humans. Impervious to pain.