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New Day

Soon, Jury to Resume Deliberations in Chauvin Trial; CDC Says, Risk of Coronavirus Spreading on Surfaces is Low; Feds Launching Investigation of Driverless, Deadly Tesla Crash. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 20, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Good morning, everyone. It's Tuesday, April 20th. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.

The jury in the Derek Chauvin murdered trial returns the deliberations in a matter of hours after a four-hour session last night. It went a bit longer, I think, than people were expecting into the night.

The prosecution hoping they convinced those 12 men and women that it was Derek Chauvin's actions alone that killed George Floyd. The defense insisting Chauvin's use of force was warranted, instead blaming Floyd's death on his health and drug use.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: And in cities across the country, police are preparing for what comes after the verdict. The Army approving 250 National Guards men in Washington, D.C., that is on top of the 2,000 National Guard forces on standby in Minneapolis.

Let's bring in criminal defense attorney and former assistant prosecutor Linda Claude-Oben along with CNN Legal Analyst and former homicide prosecutor Paul Callan.

Linda, let's listen to what is a key moment from the prosecution's closing argument.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE SCHLEICHER, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: This case is called the state of Minnesota versus Derek Chauvin. This case is not called the state of Minnesota versus the police. It is not. Policing is a noble profession and it is a profession, and it is a profession. Make no mistake.

This is not a prosecution of the police. It is a prosecution of the defendant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Why is this significant?

LINDA CLAUDE-OBEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is a significant and key moment in the trial and in the closing argument of the prosecutor because what you see here is that he is focusing the jury's attention on Derek Chauvin.

There is a lot going on in this world and in this country in anticipation for the verdict in this trial. So what the prosecutor, a skilled former defense attorney and current prosecutor in this case is doing, is he's telling the jury he's understanding his audience and telling them that they need to look at exactly what it is that Derek Chauvin did not Black Lives Matter or police brutality in this country.

BERMAN: Paul, you want to weigh in on that?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I think it's a very good move by the prosecutors because what they're trying to do, of course, is to break down what used to be called the blue wall of silence. Police and cops across the country used to stick together even when somebody did something illegal or used excessive force and we have seen the collapse of the blue wall in this case.

And I think it's a very smart move by the prosecutors to say, we're going to have better police if you convicted this case. That's the message they're sending to the jury and it's a sellable message.

BERMAN: Paul, let's get your take on another portion of the prosecution's other closing. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHLEICHER: This case is exactly what you thought when you saw it first, when you saw that video, it is exactly that. You can believe your eyes. It's exactly what you believed. It's exactly what you saw with your eyes. It's exactly what you knew. It's what you felt in your gut. It's what you now know in your heart. This wasn't policing. This was murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, Paul, something about that didn't sit well with you. What and why?

CALLAN: Well, I'll tell you, and I don't know if Linda will agree because we're both former prosecutors, but times have changed in terms of how harsh prosecutors are allowed to be in their opening and closing arguments. As lawyers, you're not supposed to be expressing personal opinions about the case but rather presenting the evidence for the jury. He violated a cardinal rule there by saying that the jury should appeal to their gut. In other words, they should go with a gut instinct that what they saw on video was correct.

Now, of course, the law says that you're not making a gut instinct decision on conviction on a murder count. It's supposed to be based on evidence which proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So I think that was over the line in terms of what a prosecutor would normally say and it may create a problem if there's a conviction and the case goes up on appeal. KEILAR: Is that appealing to the gut, Linda, or is that saying, look, you had this impression from the get-go just seeing this video because the jurors admitted they had seen it, right? Is that saying that what now has been proven because you said it's what you feel with your heart and he's trying to say obviously the proof backs that up? Is he trying to close the gap between what has happened in court and maybe their initial impressions and is that acceptable?

CLAUDE-OBEN: I think, unfortunately here, I have to agree -- I have to disagree with you, Paul.

[07:05:00]

I do think what he did is he is -- he should appeal to the jury's gut and their instincts, right? Because, essentially, your gut is your common sense, and common sense tells you when you look at that video, nine minutes and 29 seconds is a very long time to put your knee or have your knee, 90 pounds of pressure, on George Floyd's Neck.

And, essentially, what he's saying is that the jury should use their gut or listen to their gut the same way that that nine-year-old witness listened to her gut.

CALLAN: Well, he's right, I agree with you on that, that that's what he was trying to get across. And he's talking like a regular person does, not how a lawyer does, using dressed up legalese. But I'm sure as a prosecutor yourself, you haven't used that term, convict based on your gut instinct.

Now, Blackwell, the other prosecutor in the case, made an interesting statement in his closing argument, which was very simple about the heart. Do you remember that statement, which was he closed on this line that the heart of Mr. Floyd was said to be large but the reason he's dead is because the heart of Mr. Chauvin is very small.

So, once again, that was sort of -- it was a colorful bit of explanation but it wasn't talking about evidence in the case.

KEILAR: Let's turn now to a moment from the defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC NELSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A reasonable police officer, again, will rely on his training. 2020, March of 2020, tactics of the crowd, never underestimate a crowd's potential. All of the evidence shows Mr. Chauvin thought he was following his training. He was, in fact, following his training. He was following Minneapolis Police Department policies. He was trained this way. It all demonstrates a lack of intent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Linda, why is this point so important?

CLAUDE-OBEN: Well, you know, I think it's important because the defense attorney here is trying to get the jury and really get the audience to see or believe rather that Derek Chauvin's actions were reasonable. He wants us to think after watching that nine minutes and 29 seconds of Derek Chauvin's knee on George Floyd's neck, to think that his actions were reasonable.

And he's actually even touching upon this mob idea and the idea of a crowd, and really essentially touching upon the same thing that the prosecutor discussed in his closing statement, which is basically look at what happened here with Derek Chauvin. Don't pay attention to what's happening outside in the world. Don't listen to the mob. Just pay attention to Derek Chauvin and find what he did reasonable or something that a reasonable officer would have done given those circumstances.

CALLAN: You know, Linda, I think he's doing the only thing he can, Defense Attorney Nelson. He's up against -- there's such a disparity in resources on this. There were 13 prosecutors assigned to the case with a jury consultant and he sits there by himself everyday defending the nation's most unpopular client undoubtedly with a very, very difficult case.

Prosecutors put in a spectacular case and had great resources. But he's saying to this jury, listen, he was surrounded by a crowd of people, he felt threatened by those people and if he didn't pay adequate attention to how Mr. Floyd was being subdued, you shouldn't convict him of a crime. It was an unable situation.

And, of course, there were experts testified backing up that concept that a crowd can disturb the way police handle a situation.

BERMAN: Counselors Paul, Linda, thank you both for being with us. I appreciate it.

CALLAN: Thank you, John.

CLAUDE-OBEN: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, lawyers for the Chauvin defense team are arguing that not only will the former officer's actions in restraining George Floyd correct, they were, in fact, they say, reasonable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NELSON: In this case the totality of the circumstances that were known to a reasonable police officer in the precise moment the force was used demonstrates this was an authorized use of force, as unattractive as it may be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now, Captain Ron Johnson. He was the incident commander during the 2014 protests in Ferguson, Missouri.

So, Ron, the defense repeatedly used the word reasonable. I mean, again and again and again, his actions were reasonable. A reasonable officer would behave in this way. Is that how you would describe Chauvin's actions, reasonable? RON JOHNSON, FORMER INCIDENT COMMANDER, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: No, they were not reasonable. I think from the start, they may have been reasonable to try to bring compliance, but that was it. For nine minutes and 29 seconds, it wasn't reasonable.

[07:10:01]

We also saw that Mr. Floyd was complying. He was not resisting. And so those aren't actions of a reasonable policeman in our country.

BERMAN: And, in fact, Captain, what was notable, so notable, so unique in some ways about this trial is you had so many people from within the law enforcement world, including other officers, saying it wasn't reasonable. We had testimony to the effect of it wasn't reasonable. So what do you think the effect of a lawyer saying it was yesterday will be?

JONSON: I think that will be important. I think those officers were -- their experience was a gamut of years from the chief on to the dispatcher. And I think that is not the way we're trained. That's not the way we do our job. But they're saying within their agency, that is not their training. They brought the trainers in and that's not the philosophy of their department in any form or fashion.

BERMAN: You say not only is Derek Chauvin on trial, the humanity of America is on trial. What do you mean by that?

JOHNSON: Well, I think everybody watching this across -- around the world are seeing what are your mandates (ph) for everyone, people of color, equality? And so we're on trial here, our justice system here in our country. So that's what's on trial, not just Derek Chauvin. And so humanity is on trial and how we're going to have compassion for each other and how we're going to move forward.

BERMAN: So, Captain, Congresswoman Maxine Waters went to Minneapolis and was asked over the weekend what would happen, what she would advise if there is not a guilty verdict. She then said people should stay on the streets and be more confrontational. There's no indication she necessarily meant violence confrontational, just confrontational. But this became an issue in the courtroom itself and there are politicians trying to capitalize on it as well.

As a law enforcement officer, when you have a politician coming in and saying anything, what's your feeling about that?

JOHNSON: Well, I think words matter. As leaders, we have to make sure that our words are measured in what they say because they can have an impact especially when people see us as an impactful leader. I don't think her intent was to cause harm to law enforcement are the protesters, but we really have to be careful in what we say.

BERMAN: Captain Ron Johns, I appreciate you joining us on New Day. Thanks so much for being with us.

JOHNSON: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: Brianna?

KEILAR: New guidelines from the CDC a year into the pandemic about how easily coronavirus spreads on surfaces. So can we finally stop stockpiling those Clorox wipes?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00]

KEILAR: Did you spend hours wiping down groceries or days waiting to bring your mail inside the house at the start of the pandemic?

BERMAN: I used to get home from work here and take everything I was wearing off and put it in the laundry and put on entirely new home outfit like my smoking jacket and velour suit, but that's a whole different thing.

KEILAR: And the slippers.

BERMAN: Exactly. No, I would wipe everything down.

KEILAR: Okay. Well, you stopped, and that's a good thing. The CDC finally says all of that can stop, the slippers, the scrubbing.

Joining us now is CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. So, Sanjay, this was the thing last year. It seemed that there was a lot more concern about deep cleaning, disinfecting our groceries, packages that were coming to the house. Tell us what's changed.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, they've been looking at this obviously for over a year now and trying to figure out what is the pattern of transmission. In the beginning, you know, there was a lot of uncertainty around this. You think about things like, for example, norovirus which is on cruise ships. This is pre-pandemic. That's a type of virus that can spread easily by surfaces. Was this going to behave like that or was this going to behave in a different way? I think the sort of way that they approached this was just to be as cautious as possible.

Now that they look at the transmission patterns within homes, within public places, they find two things. This doesn't really spread that easily by fomites, as it's called, on surfaces. And two is that because of the nature of this virus it's surrounded by a fatty lipid, disinfectant can work but soap and water kind of works very well also. So, just washing your hands probably is going to be your best bet. If you have somebody in the house that's been sick over the last 24 hours, be careful about surfaces. Other than that you can start to dial that back.

BERMAN: So, Sanjay, Yale, Columbia University joined a growing the list of colleges and universities requiring vaccinations to return to campus. Do you think this is a good idea?

GUPTA: Yes, I do, and it's not a new idea. I mean, there's a lot of campuses, a lot of universities that already require certain immunizations, again, pre-pandemic. Measles vaccinations, for example, you've seen measles outbreaks. But also, you know, this is part of the opportunity to make sure we can start to arrive at this herd immunity as well, so, good for those campuses where people are more likely to be clustered together but maybe good for the country as well.

Let me show you this graphic real quick. I think this is some good news. Look at what's happening in Israel and the United Kingdom. And I put the United Kingdom specifically on this because that's where the variant, B117, we've talked about so much, has been spreading. As they have increasingly vaccinated, look what's happened overall to their death rates come really approaching zero now.

So that is another reason for people to think about the vaccination, for themselves, but look at what can happen to an entire country as well as you start to increase those vaccines.

BERMAN: Let's hope we get there.

So it turns out that Sanjay is celebrating a very special anniversary here at CNN, 20 years. He's been here since he was six years old. Let's take a look back at how Sanjay has guided us through all the biggest health stories and crisis of our life time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: I remember talking in your office just about the mission of CNN.

[07:20:00]

And I remember because I wrote this down, to act upon one's convictions while others wait, to create a positive force in the world, to provide information to people when it wasn't available before. I got it. I'm all in. I'm still here. I mean, that was very inspiring to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charity hospital, obviously, all the windows are open because there is no air-conditioning.

GUPTA: We've been here just a few minutes. We're already getting an idea of just how busy this hospital is.

Preparing to treat a patient with ebola is like preparing to land on the moon.

In this case, a 15-day-old baby.

It' going to spread maybe within communities. That's the expectation. Does that worry you? Because that seems that worries --

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: No, because we're ready for it.

GUPTA: Now, we're seeing how some of this relief works.

And suddenly an 18-year-old mother is thrust through the aircraft door and this young woman is going into cardiac arrest. It is aggressive, but I just delivered a cardiac thump, a quick, strong, hit to the chest and a last-ditch effort to shock Sevina's (ph) her heart back into action. Whether it worked or not, I can't say for sure but she came back.

The first known child to be born with microcephaly near the epicenter of the Zika epidemic.

He will tell you, when he takes an overdose call, the usual suspect is a painkiller.

There are people with chronic pain caught the middle. There are people with addiction who are caught the middle.

But we're seeing here, is this definitely caused by blows to the head?

When her son, Gavin, started to become ill, it was subtle.

We had heard about this amazing six-year-old from Colorado who had a rare form of epilepsy. No treatment had worked. And then one day, desperate, her parents gave her a non-psychoactive ingredient from the cannabis plant.

It has medical value, and that's part of the reason why I changed my mind on this.

Wow, this is pretty spectacular.

Just that idea of a true reset, we wanted to go deep into the Amazon rain forest. We wanted to live with the Taromenane.

Do something that scares us every day, get ourselves out of our comfort zone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please stand by for a voice check from CNN.

GUPTA: Station, this is CNN. How do you hear me?

I feel like I should be in the back. There you go.

Certainly by now, you know the story of Usuf (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this. How wonderful.

GUPTA: It's so profoundly emotional to see how people react to his holiness, just to get with him.

In order to do this operation, they've got to continuously move Jaden Ananias.

This is three-year-old Jaden McDonald. He's starting to read.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're joined by our new medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is also a neurosurgeon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: It's like Doogie Howser neurosurgeon in the picture, Sanjay. BERMAN: But, man, you know, he's like jumping into the North Sea, he's in the Amazon, he's saving lives on airplanes, my goodness, Sanjay.

GUPTA: I tell you, it's wild. I mean, you know, just looking at that is kind of like thinking about your own kids in a way. They're born one day and then, poof, you turn around and they're teenagers. I still think of myself as having just started here. It's hard to believe that it's been 20 years. But you do it because you love it. I know you guys feel the same way. I really just -- I always had such great reverence for journalist before I became one and even more so now that I joined your ranks.

BERMAN: I will note, I think there are fans of yours particularly with some of your marijuana series. We'll note, it's 4/20. You're celebrating your 20th anniversary on 4/20, which is fitting after everything you've done.

GUPTA: That's where you're going to go with that? I like that.

KEILAR: Sanjay, I'm going to say it was so beautiful to see those unexpected moments where you are covering the story but able to lend your expertise in these dire situations where medical care is so difficult to come by. And it's really spanned everything from that, those very serious moments to obviously the more silly, as John outlined.

BERMAN: Well, look, I will say in all seriousness, I know you're a neurosurgeon, Sanjay, bit I think the greatest quality is your heart, right? And that shines through in all the work you do, for sure.

GUPTA: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. And, look, so many of those moments you can't anticipate, but, you know, we are all human beings first. I mean, we go cover the story. We see these problems emerging. Sometimes we're the first people on the ground and I feel privileged again to work with a bunch of people who all put their heart first and their humanity first.

[07:25:04]

Putting a press badge on is not a bar to your humanity.

So -- but thank you. Thank you for spending the time showing that. I really appreciate it.

KEILAR: Thank you, Sanjay.

BERMAN: Congratulations on 20 years.

Coming up, Tesla under investigation after a deadly crash with nobody in the driver's seat.

KEILAR: And two children pulled from the Rio Grande by Border Patrol agents. The dramatic rescue caught on camera and where those kids are now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Two federal agencies investigating a fatal crash in Texas involving a Tesla where police say no one was in the driver's seat.

[07:30:06]

But Tesla's CEO says, autopilot is not.