Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D-MI), Is Interviewed About Her Kidnapping Plot; India Suffers Worst Day Of Pandemic With Record Cases, Deaths; Rep. Stephanie Hilferty (R-LA), Is Interviewed About Schools Teaching Slavery. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired April 29, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:32:12]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: In the United States, daily coronavirus cases are on the decline, significant declines if you look at it over time. Even in Michigan, which was driving much of the surge here, cases are way down and now hospitalizations are starting to drop in that state too, still the same week when the CDC analysis relaxing mask guidance for fully vaccinated Americans, Michigan Health officials are expanding their mask mandate to include children as young as two years old.

Joining us now Michigan's Governor Gretchen Whitmer. Governor, thank you so much for being with us this morning. Things are finally improving in your state. Why?

GOV. GRETCHEN WHITMER (D-MI): Well, we asked people of the state to help us all take a pause instead of mandating closing restaurants again and kid sports. We ask people to double down on what we know works. We know a lot more about this virus than we did a year ago.

Michigan has because of our aggressive action, especially in the early days, we bought a lot of time. Now we've got vaccines. We are really rolling in our vaccines. Almost a third of Michiganders are fully vaccinated, almost 50 percent have had at least one shot. So we're even doing better than the national average. And we're going to keep saying focus on the science and imploring our people to do the right thing. And we've shown that we can do that.

BERMAN: You know, a lot of the hospitalizations you have seen are younger people, certainly younger than they were months ago. What does the nation need to know about that? What did you learn?

WHITMER: Well, I think it's a stark reminder that none of us is completely immune from this virus. Certainly we've seen the death toll mortality rates take such a harsh impact on older people. But young people can get COVID too. And we don't know, we still don't know a lot about this virus. We've learned a lot. We know what tools work. We've got access to vaccines. But yet, we're seeing people who have long haul symptoms and none of us wants our child to get COVID. And that's why we've got to continue to mask up, take this seriously. And as soon as younger generations are safe to take the vaccine, we want to make sure that we get them in to get inoculated. That is the best way, the best path out of this tough moment we've all been living through together.

BERMAN: Some other major news, federal prosecutors have unveiled additional charges against three men who last year were accused in an alleged plot to kidnap you. These new charges include knowingly conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction or blow up a bridge near your vacation home in order to hinder police. What do you make of these new charges? And when did you become aware of the extent that -- of this plot that prosecutors allege they were planning?

WHITMER: Well, the more details that we learn, the more disturbing this is. And I think it serves as a stark reminder that words matter. And I'm incredibly grateful to the FBI and MSP and that gratitude only grows with more revelations about how serious and scary this group was and how intent they were, not just harming me but harming our law enforcement, harming communities.

[07:35:06]

And, you know, we saw President Biden last night give a great speech about coming together, defeating our common enemy, COVID. A year ago, I gave the response to the former president's last state of the union. And I said words matter. I had no idea how important that phrase was going to be. But words do matter. The rhetoric has got to stop. We've got to all raise to this challenge and stop vilifying and encouraging these domestic extremists to hurt their fellow Americans.

BERMAN: Words matter and also history matters and facts matter. Washington D.C. Police Officer Michael Fanone was brutally assaulted while defending the U.S. Capitol during the January 6th insurrection. He spoke to Don Lemon and addressed attempts by some to downplay what transpired. I want you to listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FANONE, WASHINGTON D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: It's been very difficult seeing elected officials and other individuals kind of whitewash the events of that day or downplay what happened. A lot of us are still experiencing the emotional trauma. And some are still grappling with physical injuries as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: What do you think of that? Why the effort to rewrite this history?

WHITMER: Well, because the narrative is unkind to those who try to stand in our way of making progress in this country. You know, I have seen that in my own case, where it's reported simply as a plot to kidnap. Let's be very clear. They wanted to put me on some sort of a sham trial, and then execute me.

I think we have to really, we don't want to dwell. We don't want to relive this. It is hard. It is painful. And yet, we cannot forget. We cannot let anyone pretend or spin this into not being a serious issue that not just threatens the lives of fellow Americans, but threatens the health and predictability and safety of our democracy. And that's what's at stake here.

And so as hard as to see these images and to have these conversations, we absolutely need to and we cannot forget and we've got to ensure that there's real accountability.

BERMAN: Governor Gretchen Whitmer, thanks for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

WHITMER: Thank you.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: India is reeling under an unrelenting surge in COVID-19 cases, the Indian Ministry of Health reporting more than a million new cases every three days with the daily death toll topping 3,000. Hospitals say they have an oxygen shortage. There's a nationwide vaccine shortage and some crematorium say they are cremating over 600 bodies a day.

Joining us right now is Jeffrey Gettleman, he is the South Asia bureau chief for the New York Times. He is currently living in New Delhi. Jeffrey, thank you so much. We have been watching with horror, the scenes that are unfolding there in some parts of India. Tell us how this is affecting your family, your colleagues, and what it is like living in India right now.

JEFFREY GETTLEMAN, SOUTH ASIA BUREAU CHIEF, NEW YORK TIMES: It's really terrifying. And I know around the world, we've all dealt with different versions of this pandemic. So what I'm about to share I don't think is necessarily unique to India, we're just getting a really heavy, it's just a really extreme version of it.

Right now, there are variants in the Indian population, variants of the virus that are highly contagious, and very dangerous, more so than the original version of the coronavirus. They're cutting through this country left and right. I can't tell you how many people I know who have gotten sick, members of my own family, colleagues, friends, neighbors, just about everybody I know.

And at the same time, the health care system around us is collapsing. Hospitals are running out of medicine. They've run out of ICU beds. They've run out of ventilators. They've even run out of life saving oxygen. So people are literally gasping for air in the streets at the gates of hospitals, dying very preventable deaths.

And this is the combination of those two things of this version of the virus being really easy to catch. And the fact that if you do get sick, you're really out of luck right now about trying to get help is just, you know, to be honest, this is really scary.

KEILAR: You paint a very vivid picture in your article. You write quote, many places are holding mass cremations, dozens at a time, and at night, in certain areas of New Delhi, the sky glows, sickness and death are everywhere. I'm sitting in my apartment waiting to catch the disease. I am in here, and I feel like it's only a matter of time before I, too, get sick.

When you are looking around, Jeffrey, at why this happened, I mean clearly the government plays a role in here and very much. Let its foot off of the gas on doing what it needed to about COVID. But is this about people gathering inside more? Is this about these huge rallies, these religious festivals that have been going on in India? What is the vector?

[07:40:18]

GETTLEMAN: Well, all those issues you raised are really sharp. And that's -- you've hit a lot of the key points. India dropped its guard. It had this interesting experience where it took a pretty heavy dose, so to speak, last year of the virus. There was 100,000 cases per day last fall. It looked like this place was about to get overwhelmed. And then these cases just kind of miraculously declined.

And into the fall, early winter, there was very few infections spreading in India. And there was a sense here and I've been here, I hadn't really left since this whole pandemic began. There was a sense here that the pandemic was over, that India was somehow different from these other places that had this really bad second wave.

I had people coming up to me, because they know I'm American. And this winter when New York was, you know, really imperiled, and people were getting sick across the U.S., and Indians would come up to me, and they'd say, I'm really sorry about what's happening in the U.S. You know, it looks horrible.

And in contrast, here, it was, it was pretty smooth. Very few infections, places were opening up, schools were opening up, businesses were opening up, public was mingling again, social life was returning. And in rural parts of India, and India is a huge country, 1.4 billion people, in the rural parts so many people weren't wearing masks. I saw it myself.

So this whole country just dropped its guard. And they did this exactly as the second wave was coming toward us. And the result now is that these infections are spreading out of control. The numbers you cite about a million new infections every three days. That's just -- that's probably a gross underestimation. The data, the testing, the tracking, the numbers here are believed to be way smaller, the official numbers of what's really happening. India's reporting something like 3,500 deaths a day and it's probably much, much higher than that.

KEILAR: Yes, the government transparency also a huge issue, Jeffrey. We know that you have been covering that. Jeffrey Gettleman with the New York Times, thank you for joining us from New Delhi.

GETTLEMAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: So Republican state lawmakers seem to suggest the public schools should teach the quote, good side of slavery. You'll hear for yourself, next.

KEILAR: And new details in the nursing home scandal surrounding New York's Andrew Cuomo, who was hiding what and when.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:47:04]

REP. RAY GAROFALO (R-LA): If you're having a discussion on whatever the case may be on slavery, then you can talk about everything dealing with slavery, the good, the bad, the ugly.

REP. STEPHANIE HILFERTY (R-LA): There's no good to slavery, though.

GAROFALO: Well, then whatever the case may be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So that exchange has gone viral after Republican state lawmaker in Louisiana argue that public schools and colleges should teach the, and you heard him say it, the good part of slavery, the good part. The state rep was pushing an education bill he proposed that would bar divisive concepts such as racism and sexism from classrooms.

I want to bring in Louisiana State Representative Stephanie Hilferty. Representative, you are the one who spoke out loud. Yours was the voice I believe on that tape saying, wait a second, there's no good side to slavery. Now I understand that Representative Ray Garofalo who was the other guy, he walked back his statement, but still what was going through your head when he was arguing there, we have to talk about the good from slavery?

HILFERTY: Yes. I think, yes, thank you for having me on. The chairman had an unfortunate lapse in judgment in using that turn of phrase, the good, the bad, and the ugly, which you know, colloquialism and then in reference to slavery.

If you listen a few seconds after that, he does realize what he said. And say that, I think something to the effect of, oh, my gosh, I shouldn't have used that phrase in reference to slavery. And I apologize. And my reaction was very instinctual to say there's no good in slavery. And I think that is something that 99 percent of my colleagues would say, Republican and Democrat, when faced with that statement. So I don't think I was special in saying it. It was just my first instinct when he made that comment.

BERMAN: Right. Maybe it was a slip of the tongue. Or maybe it's a feature of the legislation he's proposing, which I think directly calls for the prohibition of the discussion of divisive concepts as part of a larger course of academic instruction. Look, you know, don't you need to talk about slavery? Don't you need to talk about how bad slavery is? The Holocaust, you don't you don't need to both sides the Holocaust here. You could talk about how bad that is. So isn't that a flaw with the legislation he's promoting?

HILFERTY: Yes. And actually, let me point out, I did mention I said slavery and the Holocaust. Those are two issues that we would we have agreed that there is -- there are not two sides to teach to those instances. And I did point that out. Would actually, when you read the bill, the bill when I read it was confusing to understand the mechanics of it. It was vague in its wording.

And the question I was asking is the bill actually says it does not prohibit the teaching of divisive concepts, as it relates to a larger course of academic instruction. And my question to him was, how does -- how do you see this playing out in the classroom? That's when he mentioned, the good, the bad and the ugly of slavery. And I said, there's no good to slavery. That's how that interaction came about.

[07:50:13]

BERMAN: I mean, shouldn't to an extent discussion of slavery and the Holocaust, shouldn't it be painful? Shouldn't they cause introspection that causes us to reflect on where we've been?

HILFERTY: I would agree with that. And I think that's what's being taught in our schools. So as part of the larger discussion, we spent five hours on this bill. And during that time, that was part of the discussion was, these are being taught in our schools. I'm a product of -- I went to school in Louisiana, and those were certainly taught.

But the Holocaust and slavery among many other subjects, and it is painful to understand what people went through in Louisiana during slavery, and certainly what happened during the Holocaust. So without a doubt, but that was, and I think that is positive that's been taught in our schools.

And when I suggested to the chairman was we are actually going through an overview of all of our social studies curriculum this year in the Board of Elementary and Secondary Education, which functions as our statewide school board, that this is the time we understand what's being taught in our schools and have that community discussion about it. That is the perfect opportunity for that.

But you know, I think what was unfortunate to me, as people on Tuesday, looked at their computer, looked at their phone, and looked at their screen and saw that a Louisiana lawmaker was talking about the good and slavery. And as Louisiana resident, that's -- it's very sad to me.

We have a beautiful culture here. I live in New Orleans. New Orleans is a town that openly welcomes guests, especially as we come out of the pandemic. We certainly want people from all over the country and all over the world to look at us as a destination for lively culture and for good times, as the case may be. And so it saddens me that that is what people are seeing. I think it was a very unfortunate lapse of judgment, as I said, in using that phrase, the good, the bad, and the ugly in conjunction with slavery.

BERMAN: Representative Hilferty --

HILFERTY: But furthermore --

BERMAN: Go ahead.

HILFERTY: I'm sorry.

BERMAN: Go ahead. I'll let you finish, sorry.

HILFERTY: What I was going to say I mean, in the House Education Committee, I'm a mother to two young children, two and four years old, when I think about the work of the House Education Committee and the Senate Education Committee, and overall of state government, we need to be focusing on our literacy rates. We just received a report that we have kindergarten first, second, and third graders falling behind in literacy.

And we know that if you were behind in literacy in third grade, that is not a good progress point and could lead to severe issues further on in schooling. We need to look at the expansion of early education and how that coincides with our --

BERMAN: Right.

HILFERTY: -- workforce development. I mean, those are the issues I think we need to be discussing and working through in the House Education Committee.

BERMAN: It's a great point and you do wonder why certain things are priorities to some people. Representative Hilferty, we really appreciate you being with us. Thanks so much for joining us.

HILFERTY: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: So did Andrew Cuomo's administration cover up COVID nursing home deaths in New York. We have new reporting just ahead.

[07:53:27]

KEILAR: And President Biden promising to lift forgotten Americans last night. We'll ask the White House Press Secretary if the country can afford his plans.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: New details have emerged in the alleged cover up of COVID-19 deaths stemming from New York State nursing homes. "The New York Times" is reporting that Governor Cuomo's top aides engaged in an ongoing effort to prevent state health officials from publicly releasing the full scope of nursing home debts while under reporting the true death toll by as much as 50 percent.

Joining me now is New York Times reporter David Goodman. He is the lead investigative reporter on this story. David, thank you so much for being with us on this. This is, just for our viewers to know, this is the latest in a series of articles that you and your team have reported on about the nursing home death controversy in New York. And you say that Governor Cuomo's aides actually knew since last spring, how high the death toll was, but they prevented health officials from revealing the data. The question is why, so why was this? J. DAVID GOODMAN, REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: Well, that's -- that is the main question. And what we've been able to figure out and so in an earlier article, we were able to show that back in June, top aides to the Governor removed the true death toll from a report on nursing homes that came out last July. But what we showed in the article today was that far from a one time, you know, scrub of a report, this is actually an ongoing effort throughout nearly all of last year to keep these numbers from being revealed at various instances when the Health Department in New York State believe that they could be shared with the public.

And what the administration said was that the numbers were not accurate or weren't reliable enough to be made public. What the Health Department believed is that they were in various points tried to make them public. Now all this activity was happening at the time when Governor Cuomo was pitching and then writing his book about the pandemic. So there's a coincidence in time there.

And it's also at a time when the Governor was under heavy fire from Republicans and other critics for his handling of nursing homes and his decision early in the pandemic to require nursing homes to take back positive, COVID positive patients after they've been treated in hospitals. And people blamed that decision for the deaths in nursing homes. And that was really a focus of the administration to try and fight back against this political pressure that they were under.

But what seems to have happened is that they let the politics get in the way of making public this health data that was important to New Yorkers, really understanding the true scope of the devastation in the state's nursing homes.

[08:00:03]

KEILAR: And David just to be clear this was happening with the backdrop of the initial reaction.