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Ali Ellebedy is Interviewed about his New Research on Coronavirus; Violent Crime Spikes and the Solution; Biden Demands Action on Guns; Firm Deadline on Police Reform; Greene Rebuked for Comments; DHS Mandates Cybersecurity Measures. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 27, 2021 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Could take their masks off in most situations. And a question arose, will the -- would that incentivize people to get vaccinated.

So we took a look at the data from vaccines.gov, this is a CNN exclusive, take a look at the beginning of this graph. You know, the numbers were sort of going along in the morning, as they do, and then they started to dip at noon. These are people who were looking to put in their zip code and find a vaccine. The numbers dipped at noon, which is typical, and then they went up when Walensky made her announcement. They kept climbing and then they went up even more when President Biden was at his briefing and mentioned the new guidelines.

That peak is very unusual. That peak you just saw is not the way traffic on vaccines.gov usually works. So that indicates, according to the folks there, an interest because of the announcement that Dr. Walensky and President Biden made.

Now, did those people go on and get vaccinations? It's a little bit unclear. Let's take a look at another graph. This is actual vaccinations. These are folks who went and got first shots. As you can tell, starting at April 11th, those numbers started to go down, down, down, down, down. And then when Dr. Walensky made her announcement on May 13th, those numbers started to go up. So it went from this sort of nosedive to going up again.

Now, maybe it's because, coincidentally, at around the same time 12 to 15 year olds were allowed to get the vaccine. Maybe that's part of it. But we actually went and factored out that younger group of people getting vaccinated and still you saw those numbers rising a little bit. So that's, you know, very interesting. Perhaps the mask guidance change really did something here.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It could be that. It could be some of the incentives that are going out in states. It could be the efforts to reach people who aren't reluctant to getting it but just there are barriers in the way to them getting it. All of that might be working here. That's good news.

Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much. It was really interesting to see. COHEN: Thanks.

BERMAN: So immunity to the coronavirus may last for years, even a lifetime. That's according to two very encouraging new studies.

Joining me now is the co-author of one of those studies, Ali Ellebedy. He's an immunologist at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Now, look, you have a really interesting study here. Earlier, months ago, there had been some evidence that the amount of antibodies in your body waned. There was a reduction in the antibodies. But you looked at something different and said, we're seeing something different here that is actually very encouraging, and that has to do with memory cells. What are you talking about and why is that important?

ALI ELLEBEDY, CO-AUTHOR, STUDY ON COVID-19 INDUCING LASTING ANTIBODY PROTECTION: It's very important because we have -- we are looking at the source of these antibodies. They are -- they are produced by cells that live in our bone marrows. So what we saw in people who had been infected even year ago, that those cells are stable in our -- in their bone marrows and they are continuing to produce these antibodies over time. And so that's the good news that these antibodies are being generated and being maintained in those patients, like given (ph) almost a year after they have resolved their symptoms. So that means that these immunities potentially are durable.

BERMAN: You have the memory cells so that if you are infected, the cells will activate the antibodies, it will fight the virus.

Now, you say this has if you've been infected before. Does that mean if you've had coronavirus, you don't need the vaccine?

ELLEBEDY: Absolutely not. What we -- what we are saying here and what we are seeing is that when you have the antibodies, you have a really good memory. And that memory could be great if you have a lot of these antibodies and if the virus didn't change. And, obviously, what we have seen in the last six months is the virus starting to evolve. And there are some variants that are causing some concern recently. So I think it's very important to make a distinction between having an antibody doesn't mean you are completely protected. It's very different. But what you -- what you should be -- what we should be excited about and very encouraged by is that you have these memory cells and these memory cells are ready to jump into action once we have the virus or once we get exposed to the virus again. And I think people have -- who have been infected and produce this beautiful memory over time, it's -- it will be a great incentive to get the vaccine because now you can put these memory cells into action.

BERMAN: So, Senator Rand Paul, who has been infected, says he's not being vaccinated because he's had the virus. This study actually say he's wrong. He's got an opportunity to be immune for life if only he would go and get the vaccine. These are the people who should get vaccinated -- well, everyone should get vaccinated. But this will have such an impact on people who have been infected. It could protect them forever.

Now, what about people who haven't been infected who just are vaccinated? What does the research say about their memory cells?

ELLEBEDY: The research is ongoing at the moment. We have studies ongoing at Wash U and also many other places, other (ph) research centers over the country that we are showing a very encouraging signs how robust the immune response is (ph) just by our current vaccine. So the data are not fulling in, but I think it's -- the signs are very encouraging that the vaccine will produce a very strong response as well.

[06:35:04]

So just to follow up on your first point, I think those who have been infected and getting the vaccine again would be great because of the uncertainty of the variants. We don't really know if you are going to be protected against every different virus that can -- can evolve from the original one.

BERMAN: Ali Ellebedy, thank you so much for joining us this morning, sharing the results of this research. We appreciate it.

ELLEBEDY: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: So, James Carville telling Democrats, blame Donald Trump for the current crime wave in the U.S. We'll discuss.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, the latest response from Marjorie Taylor Greene after she was finally condemned, or her comments were finally condemned, by House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy. Her message for Republican leadership, and they probably won't like it.

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BERMAN: The deadly rampage in San Jose, just the latest example of violent crime rising in this country in a big way. And why that's happening and how to stop it is now spilling over into politics.

[06:40:02]

John Avlon with a "Reality Check."

John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yesterday's slaughter in San Jose was the 232nd mass shooting this year, that's according to the gun violence archive. But this death toll is taking place against a broader backdrop because violent crime increased in the nation's cities last year after decades of decline and it's showing no signs of showing.

Major American cities saw a stunning 33 percent increase in murder last year. Now, contrast that step with the steep and then steady murder decline America saw between 1991 and 2014. The spike in homicides and assaults continued in the first quarter of this year. Not only that, the number of police officers who have been shot in the line of duty stand at 141 as of May 16th and 24 officer fatalities this year is the most year to date since 2018.

So, you'd be forgiven for asking, what the hell is going on here? Now, experts blame a perfect storm of circumstances, including economic anxieties around COVID, the prevalence of guns, the release of criminal defendants due to COVID concerns in jail, as well as the overall reallocation of police resources.

Laura Cooper, the executive director of the Major Cities Chiefs Association, also told me that police chiefs are seeing an increase in social media beefs spilling out into street violence, all of which sharp -- spurring a rapid reassessment of the defund the police rhetoric and reality.

Get this, Los Angeles recently changed course after cutting its police department by $150 million last July. Now its mayor is proposing increased funding after a 38 percent spike in murders last year.

In New York City, which saw a 97 percent spike in shootings and a 45 percent rise in murder last year, one of the leading candidates to replace Mayor Bill de Blasio is a black ex-cop, Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams, who's promising to be tough on crime while still reforming the police.

Now, this doesn't mean that a police reform agenda is done. Far from it. In fact, a bipartisan police reform bill seems to be nearing completion in the Senate, but all of this highlights the importance of better policing, not necessarily less policing.

President Biden has long called for an increase in investment in police training, resisting calls to defund the police from the left wing of his party. Now, during the campaign, he took heat from the right and the left for his authorship of the 1994 crime bill signed by Bill Clinton. At the time, crime was the number one concern of Americans.

But the controversial crime bill worked. Just look at its impact in hastening the decline of violent crime across the country over decades. Ironically, the current violent crime spike began under a president who promised --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I will restore law and order to our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Yes. But now Joe Biden is president and democrat's control both houses of Congress, and you can bet that rising crime will be an issue in the '22 campaign. And perhaps that's why Attorney General Merrick Garland just announced a new multipronged plan to combat violent crime, including federal agents helping local authorities identify and arrest repeat, violent offenders, the ATF imbedding with local homicide units and the DEA working to disrupt violent drug trafficking gangs, all while investing in crime prevention and community policing.

Despite the spike in mass shootings, Republicans in Congress will continue to block gun reform bills. Even modest reforms, like background checks, which have shown super majority support.

So, while James Carville argues in "The Wall Street Journal" that Democrats are the anti-crime party, the ragin' cajun knows from harsh (ph) experience that Republicans can turn rising crime into a culture war wedge issue. And as we turn the corner into summer, which is usual increase in violence crime, public safety is again front and center in people's minds after decades of declines. And Democrats are going to have to deal with it or risk political backlash.

And that's your "Reality Check."

BERMAN: Yes, less politics, more fixing it.

AVLON: That's right.

BERMAN: John Avlon, thank you very much.

Brianna.

KEILAR: Well, it seems like there is more politics and less fixing it.

President Biden ordering flags to be lowered to half-staff yet again as San Jose becomes the site of the 232nd mass shooting in the U.S. this year. Biden said in a statement, quote, enough. Once again, I urge Congress to take immediate action and heed the call of the American people, including the vast majority of gun owners, to help end this epidemic of gun violence in America. Every life that is taken by a bullet pierces the soul of our nation. We can and we must do more.

I want to talk about this and some other topics with John Harwood, our White House correspondent.

You know, America can do more. America has to do more, you would think, and yet we've seen Biden push through these executive orders that actually show how limited his ability is to do something unilaterally on this. Is anything going to get done?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No. And the reason is that the Republican Party and the gun lobby, princely the NRA, have had a common strategy of whipping up constituents to believe that any steps that are taken are a step down the road to taking people's guns away.

[06:45:08]

That galvanizes a lot of fear. They rationalize inaction by saying that it's not going to make much difference. And so the reality is, for this particular Congress, because Republicans have enough strength in the Congress to block action, there is not going to be action. KEILAR: Do you ever wonder, like, what does it take? I wondered after

the shooting involving Republicans at the softball field, is this going to be something? We wondered, Sandy Hook, is this going to be the thing? Do you ever wonder what is it going to be?

HARWOOD: I think Sandy Hook was the point that demonstrated that it's almost nothing that is going to change this unless simply the erosion over time of resistance somehow manages to affect it. If you have schoolchildren killed, that is -- it's impossible to imagine a greater motivator than that. But what we've actually seen is the cultivation of conspiracy theories on the right that this was somehow staged or whatever, insane, but that's where we are.

KEILAR: It has to chip away at the base of Republican support, their base support, in order for something to be done here.

OK, let's talk about something that perhaps we are more optimistic about, what may be done, and that is police reform.

Senator Tim Scott, though, they're not at a deal on this, he said, it's June or bust. Can they do it, do you think?

HARWOOD: I think they can. I think Democrats believe that Tim Scott is negotiating in good faith. It is probably constructive that Tim Scott sets a deadline. One of the fears of Democrats is that negotiations drag on and on and Republicans have a general posture of resistance to anything they're trying to do and eventually everything defaults to resistance and it won't get done. They blew past Joe Biden's deadline of one year from George Floyd's death. But the fact that Tim Scott himself is saying, we've got to get it done in the next three weeks is probably going to be galvanizing for the negotiators.

KEILAR: Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's like that -- for Republicans kind of this party guest they don't want, but they have to invite her and she always shows up and she kind of ruins the party for them. And she is again attacking House Republican leadership because they condemned her comments, as they should have, as any normal person would, where she compared mask mandates to the Holocaust.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): It's unfortunate that he took this route and he didn't even text me or call me, which is really a shame, before I found out -- seeing it in the news that -- that he had said that. And then, sadly, you know, Elise Stefanik, our new GOP chair, followed suit, of course, right along and -- and then I think Steve Scalise and others. And they shouldn't have done that. They -- none of them called me and asked me what -- what I meant by what I had said.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: He wasn't courteous. He wasn't courteous enough, that's what she said. I mean what does -- what does the GOP do about Marjorie Taylor Greene? HARWOOD: Our colleague, Karen Tumulty of "The Washington Post" I think

had an apt comparison and said Marjorie Taylor Greene is like Frankenstein's monster that's been built over time. As the Republican Party has drifted further and further away from rationality and reason and debating public policy, to cultivating the crazy. When you cultivate the crazy, eventually you elect the crazy. That's what Marjorie Taylor Greene is. And it's very difficult for people like Kevin McCarthy to do anything about it because they're petrified that in the 2022 elections, when they want to regain the majority in the Congress, that if they criticize people like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who's very popular among a segment of the Republican base, they're going to hurt their own chances of -- Kevin McCarthy's chances of becoming speaker. That -- he's more scared of that than anything Marjory Taylor Greene could say.

KEILAR: I just -- I can't get over that. She -- she wishes that he had called because she didn't see that coming. It's -- well, well.

John Harwood, great to see you this morning. Thank you.

Just in to CNN, Homeland Security officials are actually about to issue some new cyber security rules, all in response to hackers crippling that Colonial Pipeline, which created gas shortages up and down the East Coast recently.

BERMAN: And prosecutors have told at least one witness to prepare for grand jury testimony in their case against Donald Trump. I'll speak with one person who is already cooperating.

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[06:52:54]

BERMAN: Just in to CNN, new cybersecurity measures being mandated by the Department of Homeland Security in the wake of that crippling ransomware attack against the Colonial Pipeline.

Alex Marquardt joins us now with the details.

Alex, what have you learned?

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Well, that's right, this is the federal government getting much more involved in the private sector because of the havoc that can be caused by ransomware attacks and cyber-attacks on critical infrastructure in this country and all around the world. We most recently saw that with the hack on the Colonial Pipeline, which resulted in long lines at gas stations and gas shortages up and down the East Coast.

So, today, the Department of Homeland Security is rolling out a new security directive -- this is actually coming out under TSA, which regulates the pipeline industry -- imposing new requirements on pipeline companies. There are three major requirements for these pipeline companies. The first one is that they are going to be required to report cyber- attacks to the federal government within 12 hours. Before, that was just voluntary. They're going to be required to name, to designate a cyber security coordinator, someone who's available 24/7. And, John, they are going to be required to make sure within 30 days that they are in line with the current guidelines by TSA for pipeline companies.

Now, if they fail to do these things, if they fail to follow this new directive, there will be financial penalties. That can be imposed on a daily basis. So they can grow quite quickly.

Around 100 pipeline companies are going to be affected by this. According to DHS, they know that they are part of the critical infrastructure.

But more than anything, John, this really just underscores this understanding of the era and the time that we are living in where critical infrastructure, all across this country, all around the world, are extremely vulnerable to cyber-attacks, to ransomware attacks. And those attacks are growing by the day. They're extremely destructive.

Now, DHS says that this new directive is just the first step, that there will be more, and that they are considering using this as a model for more regulation going forward.

John.

BERMAN: Yes, if anything else, it highlights the fact it didn't exist already.

MARQUARDT: Exactly.

[06:55:00]

BERMAN: This isn't exactly brain surgery here what they're instituting. I think a lot of people are looking at this and going, wow, that wasn't in place?

MARQUARDT: That's right.

BERMAN: Thank you so much for that reporting. Appreciate it.

So the fans back in the stands, which means the fans are misbehaving. What one Philadelphia fan did to make Russell Westbrook completely lose it.

KEILAR: Can't blame him.

Plus, they, quote, think we're like servants. New CNN reporting on the fractured relationship between Capitol Police and members of Congress fueled by Republican lawmaker's efforts to whitewashing the violence of January 6th.

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