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S.E. Cupp Unfiltered

The President Of The United States Has Spent The Past Few Days Denying That The Deaths Of 3,000 American Citizens In Puerto Rico Even Occurred; A Bombshell Maybe In The Final Days Of Supreme Court Nominee, Brett Kavanaugh's Confirmation Battle; Paul Manafort Will Cooperate With The Mueller Probe; "60 Minutes" Executive Producer Jeff Fager Was Fired; Republican In Congress Is Calling An Administration Failure. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired September 15, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:010] S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: Welcome to UNFILTERED.

Here's tonight's headlines. Tweet storm. The President of the United States has spent the past few days denying that the deaths of 3,000 American citizens in Puerto Rico even occurred. That's right. President Trump wants us to believe that the official death toll in Puerto Rico, 2,975, the number of people who died as a direct result of the storm and the federal government's insufficient response to it is a hoax, a lie, a conspiracy against him, because that's how pathologically insecure he is.

September 20th, less than a week away, marks one year since Maria ravaged Puerto Rico and recently got the official death figures and no thanks to the federal government. The governor of Puerto Rico had to ask researchers at George Washington University to get actual figures, figures that the President is now insisting must be made up.

Just last night, Trump tweeted, when Trump visited the island territory last October, officials told him in a briefing 16 people had died from Maria, according to "the Washington Post." This was long after the hurricane took place. Over many months, it went to 64 people that like magic, 3,000 people killed. They hired GW research to tell them how many people had died in Puerto Rico. How would they not know this? This method never done with previous hurricanes because other jurisdictions know how many people were killed, 50 times last original number, no way.

This latest tweet storm comes a day after Trump accused Democrats, yes, Democrats of inflating the number just to make him look bad. Of course, he offered no evidence to support his wild claim because there is none. That's a lie and it's a particularly odious one.

Here's the deal. This President, it appears, is incapable of expressing empathy, the basic human decency or even accepting reality when confronted with it. That's both disturbing and alarming. But this is sadly what we have come to expect from him and it seems pointless to ask him to do better. What is stunning to me, however, is the lack of pushback from

Republican leadership in response to the President's offensive tweets denying the deaths of American citizens, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell has said nothing. Speaker of the House Paul Ryan said he has no reason to doubt the numbers. OK. Senator Lindsey Graham questioned the methodology of the report. Here is an idea. Compel your government to do the job and assess the death toll itself and you wouldn't have to question the methodology of a college-commissioned study.

But how hard is it for a member of Congress to say the President is wrong, the numbers are right, Puerto Rico has suffered enough and this just adds insult to injury? Why is that, acknowledging the deaths of American citizens, suddenly require political courage? Why does that now imperil an elected official's reelection efforts? Why does that somehow become partisan? Because the President of the United States is a bully and the Republicans who support him are cowards.

Meanwhile, another storm equally as real continues to wreak its havoc on the southeastern coast. What started as a category four hurricane, now, tropical storm Florence is moving westward. It seems significant unprecedented flooding in the Carolinas. And according to officials nearly 800,000 homes and businesses are without power. At least eight people including a mother and her infant have died in North Carolina and one death has been reported so far in South Carolina as a result of this storm.

Let's go to CNN national correspondent Ed Lavandera. He's in Jacksonville, North Carolina.

Ed, what's the latest there?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, as we come on air this afternoon, the rainfall begins. We had a little bit of a lull for the last couple of hours, but now another downpour here in the city and this is one neighborhood that's emblematic of what many people here in this area are dealing with.

CUPP: Did we lose Ed? It looks like we have lost him. We will try to pick him up again, but joining me now is Republican congressman from South Carolina, Ralph Norman.

Congressman, as Florence moves inland, your district is in the direct path of the storm. What are you hearing from your constituents? How are they faring? Do you think they are prepared?

REP. RALPH NORMAN (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, we haven't had the brunt of it yet, S.E.

CUPP: Yes.

NORMAN: But the problem we are having now is a massive amount of rain projected over the next 24 hours. The winds at 30 to 40 miles an hour, the down trees that are a hazard. We had a lady from one of my counties that I represent die when a tree fell down and she hit it. The undermining of our roads. It's, unfortunately, we are still in it. It's not to the extent that the coastal counties have had, but the worst is yet to come.

[18:05:25] CUPP: So when you say the worst, what are you bracing for? In particular, is it more flooding or are you fearing winds damage? What specifically are you most worried about?

NORMAN: The water and the winds with the trees. I was talking to an airline pilot earlier. And he was talking about the winds that a commercial airliner could safely land and it was 24 miles an hour. We have had higher winds than that over the past six hours and probably going to have the same 30 to 40 miles an hour, which are dangerous.

CUPP: So from what you can see, from your vantage point, how has the federal response been to this storm?

NORMAN: It's been phenomenal. From the governor having meetings with FEMA to the sheriffs, the chief of police, the mayors, they have had three to four meetings a day. I have had briefings from the governor within the last two hours.

It's been phenomenal. The communications have been good, the United States customs patrol has been great. It's been a collaborative effort, nine states have pitched in to help South Carolina and we'll be grateful, forever grateful, for what they're done. But it's been a great experience to help with a very tragic and unfortunate storm.

CUPP: That's great to hear. Yes, that's great to hear. So before I leave you, what do you say to people who might be watching who say, well, now it's just a tropical storm?

NORMAN: Don't be goaded into a sense of false security. Stay off the roads, particularly on the secondary roads. The big problem, we will have in South Carolina will be roads that are washed out that you can't really see unless a car is there. So stay off the roads if you can't stay inside.

CUPP: Thank you, congressman, for joining us, for updating us. Stay safe and continue to keep us updated. I appreciate it.

NORMAN: Thank you.

CUPP: OK, we have CNN national correspondent Ed Lavandera back in Jacksonville.

Ed, you were saying?

LAVANDERA: All right, I'll continue. I was trying to give you a sense of what we are dealing with here but there's a river called the New River that runs through Jacksonville and it empties out into the Atlantic Ocean. It's just beyond that tree line.

In around 7:00 this morning, residents here, the water was already kind of coming, starting to appear out of that tree line and around 7:00 this morning, residents here in this neighborhood noticed it was pushing up. So it has moved up and crept into this neighborhood, several hundred yards, already flooding several dozen homes in this neighborhood if you look out back this way, those homes that you see there in the distance probably have three to four feet of water. And in this neighborhood, we have noticed people throughout the day. They have finished most of that, S.E., but they are really scrambling. People who thought they were going to be on high enough ground, really, scrambling inside their homes to grab what they could and move into a little bit higher up here in this neighborhood. So that is emblematic of what many people here are dealing with, not only in areas where flooding was expected but now into neighborhoods where many people thought they would be OK, that they had been through previous storms and flood water, didn't even get close to their homes. And in this particular storm, other seen neighborhoods like, they are taking on water.

So we spoke with the gentleman who lives in this house. He came down just to check it out. And they are all flirting with disaster for the most part as the water is just standing there at the door's edge and anymore rainfall will send water flooding into their home. So that's the kind of anxiety that people here in this neighborhood are dealing with this afternoon.

CUPP: Not so much the wind as you can see from those boarded up windows, but the water that people are most worried about now. And no way to protect against that kind of flooding.

Thanks, Ed Lavandera. I appreciate it.

Next, I will speak to the governor of Puerto Rico about the President's staggering spin over the hurricane Maria death toll.

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[18:13:11] CUPP: As I mentioned earlier, President Trump was busy praising his administration's response to hurricane Maria ahead of the latest storm. During an oval office briefing on preparations for hurricane Florence, the President had this to say about lessons to be learned from the federal response to Maria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The job that FEMA and law enforcement and everybody did working along with the governor in Puerto Rico, I think, was tremendous. I think that Puerto Rico was an incredible unsung success.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Puerto Rican people probably disagree with that assessment. A recent "Washington Post"/Kaiser family foundation poll shows 15 percent of Puerto Ricans have a positive view of the way President Trump handled recovery efforts in the wake of Maria, while a full 80 percent of those polled say the President did only a fair or poor job.

Joining us now to discuss is governor of Puerto Rico Ricardo Rossello.

Governor, thank you for joining me. The President is lying about the death numbers saying essentially that they are fraudulent, that they are a democratic conspiracy. What is your response to that? GOV. RICARDO ROSSELLO (D), PUERTO RICO: Well, thank you for the

opportunity, S.E.

My response is that, you know, we take this matter very seriously. We run a government that's oriented on science and on facts. And as you know, after the storm, it was quite a challenge to get the death toll count. We started with a protocol. The protocol wasn't good. And immediately after we realized that, we externalized to an independent academic and scientific effort. They came back with an estimate excess of deaths and it was a robust scientific process. So much so, that we have decided to establish what their number was, 2,975, as the official death toll count.

So it is robust. I reject the notion that this is somehow a conspiracy or that it's not true. It is the most scientifically accurate estimate that we have from what happened here in Puerto Rico.

[18:15:22] CUPP: Last night, as another huge hurricane was barreling down on the Carolinas, the President tweeted, the people of Puerto Rico have one of the most corrupt governments in our country, that's a quote from Lou Dobbs.

You are the government in Puerto Rico. Do you take that personally?

ROSSELLO: Listen, my job here is to make sure we can transform government. Certainly, we've been making waves so that we can have a very transparent government moving forward. We've been implementing new policies so that things can be clear.

I think the fact of the matter is that talking about politics or trying to throw mud, one way or the other, really diminishes what truly happened here in Puerto Rico. There was the most, in my view, S.E., the most devastating natural catastrophe in the modern history of the United States.

There are a lot of people that lost their lives. There's a lot of people grieving. And it's time to show empathy, to recognize that this was devastating for all of us and to hopefully use the resolve and wherewithal of the people of Puerto Rico so that we can rebuild stronger towards the future.

CUPP: Before I let you go, what does Puerto Rico still need as it continues to recover from Maria almost a year later?

ROSSELLO: Well, we need resources. We need to rebuild in Puerto Rico. We have a great opportunity using all of the statutory funds that are coming to Puerto Rico and the help we have gotten from the federal government. Now, we need to implement.

But there's another thing we need. We need to solve the century old problem of colonialism in Puerto Rico. The truth of the matter is all of your viewers know that we are treated as second class citizens. Truth of the matter is that Texas and Florida got different treatment, better treatment than what Puerto Rican people got after the storm.

If we are, you know, if we are honest, if we really want to end this inequality, this unequal treatment, we need to tackle that problem and in my view, it is time for all U.S. politicians, for all the decision makers to have a firm position. Do you support colonialism in the 21st century? Do you support the notion that the United States is the standard bearer of democracy should have more than three million citizens disenfranchised from voting or having representation or do you commit to having action? So it is time to put up or shut up right now for everybody in the world that's watching.

CUPP: So that you are aware, every time I have had a congressman on to talk about Puerto Rico, I have asked them their position on statehood in hopes that starts a much needed conversation on that issue.

We are thinking about you in Puerto Rico, governor Rossello. Thank you so much for joining me.

ROSSELLO: Thank you, S.E. Thank you.

CUPP: The President's inability to accept the consequences of his ineptitude and his grotesque tweets about Puerto Rico this week were not just a window into his soul but also part of a long running strategy. When faced when criticism, President Trump has time and again hailed his failures as complete successes, even when easily proved demonstrably false.

To discuss this further, let me bring in CNN political commentator as Republican strategist Doug Heye and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona.

Doug, this is not the first time has attempted to characterized his failures as successes. We remember Helsinki, which he called, you know, terrific. How long can he keep going back to this well before people stop believing him?

DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think to the stars and beyond, believe it or not. It's a successful strategy for Donald Trump when he is talking to his base and really the only conversation that Trump really tries to have is with his base. His base backs him overwhelmingly. Ninety percent of Republican primary voters say that they back Donald Trump first and foremost before anything else, even before his policies. So this is a strategy that he goes to all the time because for his limited purposes. It works every time.

CUPP: Maria, too far off.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CUPP: Democrats, you know, say they want to focus on issues like healthcare, I get that. But should they switch gears to make more of the fact that Donald Trump is a liar and Republicans are enabling him?

CARDONA: Well, I think one of the things that Democrats are going to certainly do and have been doing is to connect every single member of Congress that is a Republican and that is supporting President Trump and who has not had the spine and the backbone to come out against him no matter how ridiculous, disgusting, offensive and dangerous his lies are, which is that is exactly what they have become, I think that Democrats are going to make sure that we tie the President to these Republicans that we talk about the culture of corruption in the administration and in the cabinet.

And frankly, on this specific issue, S.E., as you know, there are not just Puerto Ricans who felt a punch in the face with these ridiculous tweets on the island but there are millions of Puerto Ricans stateside and guess where they are? In Florida, in Texas where Beto O'Rourke is tied with Cruz in Pennsylvania and Ohio and all of these swing states. And it's going to be very dangerous Republicans.

[18:20:56] CUPP: Loud and clear.

CARDONA: Exactly.

CUPP: And I got to be honest, you don't have to be Puerto Rican to be offended.

CARDONA: No, absolutely. You are absolutely right about that, yes.

CUPP: They are Americans.

CARDONA: Definitely.

CUPP: Doug, what do you think it says about the GOP right now that even saying the President's wrong about the death toll in Puerto Rico is too politically fraught?

HEYE: Well, I think it comes down to two things. One, the popularity of Trump that I mentioned earlier, but also, there's a Trump fatigue that members of Congress have.

I was with a friend who is a reporter for the "Washington Post" yesterday who described to me, you know, the members of Congress who walk away or say, I didn't see the tweet because they are tired of every time Donald Trump tweets something, having to respond to it.

CUPP: Yes.

HEYE: And I understand that fatigue. But at the same time, you know, they look at not just Trump's popularity but also what's happened to members who have crossed Donald Trump, most specifically, Mark Sanford who represents Charleston, which is being hit with the hurricane right now.

CUPP: Sure.

HEYE: But I would say that the difference is Mark Sanford wasn't critical of Trump policies. He fought Donald Trump as an individual every day and that's why he received the punishment from his voters that he did. I think you can stand up and be critical on Trump on specific issues, stand up, you can tell the truth, you can be honest with your voters and I think frankly, they will respect you for it if you are talking about issues as opposed to going after Trump personally.

CUPP: Maria, real quick.

CARDONA: Yes. So I think what Doug is saying is right in terms of Trump only focusing on his base, but here's the problem with that. We have seen his approval ratings declining to very dangerous territory and the fact that he is losing not just suburban Republican women but he is losing even working class white men. So at what point, Doug, does he say or do Republicans say enough is enough and they come out and actually defend the country before party?

HEYE: Yes. Unfortunately, I would say, Maria.

CUPP: That's the question.

HEYE: When they retire and when they lose.

CARDONA: Well, that may very well happen in November, Doug.

CUPP: Doug, Maria, thanks so much for coming on. I appreciate it.

HEYE: Thank you.

CARDONA: Thanks so much, S.E.

CUPP: OK. Coming up, Paul Manafort will cooperate with the Mueller probe. I'll find out just how bad that is for Donald Trump.

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[18:25:09] CUPP: A bombshell maybe in the final days of Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation battle. Kavanaugh came on fry on Friday, came out to deny a sexual misconduct accusation stemming from an alleged incident when he was in high school.

I categorically and unequivocally deny this allegation. H said I did not do this back in high school or at any time, he said. The allegations appeared in a letter from an unnamed accuser which Democratic senator Dianne Feinstein brought to the attention of the FBI this week. The woman claims that in the early '80s when they were teenagers, Kavanaugh and his friend held her down at a party and Kavanaugh covered mouth and tried to remove her clothes.

Also on Friday, 65 women who say they knew Kavanaugh in high school signed a letter attesting to his integrity. And crucial swing vote senator Susan Collins met with him but stayed mum so far.

It might have been a last minute hail Mary by the Democrats but all signs post to Republicans pressing forward with Kavanaugh's nomination with the Judiciary Committee vote still set for next week.

We will be back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:37] CUPP: In the red file tonight, let me take you back a few weeks to August 22nd when President Trump's former campaign manager Paul Manafort was convicted of eight counts of financial crimes. On that day, Trump tweeted, I feel very badly for Paul Manafort and his wonderful family. Unlike Michael Cohen, he refused to break, make up stories in order to get a deal. Such respect for a brave man.

Well, Manafort broke and he got a deal. On Friday, rather than going to trial number two, pleaded guilty to conspiracy against the U.S. in conspiracy to obstruct justice. More significantly, he has offered to cooperate with prosecutors. Agreeing to give interviews to Mueller's team without his lawyers and to testify in other cases if needed.

White House officials like Sarah Sanders and Rudy Giuliani quickly released statements saying that Manafort's deal has nothing to do with the President. Manafort's attorney, Kevin Downing, even parroted that theme after the proceedings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEVIN DOWNING, PAUL MANAFORT'S ATTORNEY: He has accepted responsibility and this is for conduct that dates back many years. And everybody should remember that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: OK. So, for more on this, I would like to turn to former federal prosecutor and former lawyer for Manafort's longtime partner Rick Gates, CNN legal analyst Sean Wu.

Sean, are sanders and Giuliani and Manafort's lawyer, are they right that this has nothing to do with the President?

[18:30:02] SEAN WU, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They may be, S.E., it remains to be seen. But I think an interesting aspect of that is you saw in recent days that Giuliani has talked about having a joint defense agreement sort of spinning that on us.

CUPP: Yes.

WU: And if that is true, I am not entirely sure it is, but if it is true, there may be some reassurances there for the Trump team and vice versa, that could be some reassurances for Manafort that a pardon is not completely off the table.

CUPP: So, you know, prosecutors don't just hand out deals like this. Does it mean they know Manafort has high value information, either related to the Mueller case or some other cases?

WU: They definitely don't just willy-nilly hand out deals like this. There would have been extensive preparations in two forms. One is through proffers, from his attorneys, the prosecutors. And then two, probably would have been actual interviews with Manafort as well. There a little bit of a compressed time period but neither side is going into this blindly. So his information is definitely valuable to them. Whether it specifically implicates President Trump or not is a different question but there is other aspects that could be valuable too.

CUPP: So what do you think Robert Mueller might be looking to get from Manafort?

WU: Well, besides the fact that he is the only one so far that has pled guilty, who was at the famous Trump tower meeting, somebody in his position is really uniquely situated to give insights into the campaign and possibly what was going on in the President's mind. Because if you are looking at this question of possible obstruction, you have to figure out what is the mindset of the defendant? And it's not easy to figure that out until you have someone who has been talking with that person. And in that sense, Manafort has been right there and can give a lot to Mueller's team.

Also, someone in his position, the chairperson of the campaign, just the amount of information they get for operational day-to-day things, who knew what, who was really tasked with responsibilities, all of that is very invaluable information for the investigators.

CUPP: So you know Paul Manafort is just the latest Trump associate to agree to cooperate with the Mueller investigation. So what does it say to you that so many of his associates are copying pleas?

WU: It says to me this has been an extraordinarily aggressive investigation. It has been very fast paced, as someone who was briefly on the receiving end of the investigation, I can certainly attest to how fast and how aggressive they move. And I think what we are seeing here is that when a government investigation is very aggressive and really amasses these resources against individuals, it's a lot of pressure and they tend to uncover real evidence and ultimately, the people tend to give into that pressure, particularly in white collar cases, S.E., it's so much of a paper trail that it's very, very difficult to withstand just the volume of evidence.

CUPP: Sean Wu, thanks you so much for the analysis.

WU: You are welcome. Good to see you.

CUPP: OK. After the break, is the Me Too scandal at the highest levels of CBS spinning out of control? That's next.

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[18:37:45] CUPP: The hunt is on for a new CEO at CBS. And a prominent boss of the network's flag ship "60 Minutes" following what's being called CBS' hell week.

Two days after network CEO Les Moonves stepped down amid sexual harassment and assault allegations, long time "60 Minutes" executive producer Jeff Fager was fired following allegations that he sexually harassed employees and enabled an abuse of culture.

But in a peculiar twist, CBS said Fager's exit wasn't directly related to those allegations but rather he was ousted for violating company policy. Fager claims it was due to a text message he sent to a CBS reporter demanding she be fair in covering the story. He said my language was harsh and despite the fact that journalists receive harsh demands for fairness all the time, CBS did not like it.

Well, the reporter he texted she aired out those texts this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERICKA DUNCAN, CBS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I am that reporter. Since Jeff Fager publicly referred to our exchange today, I want to be transparent about it. Fager in a text said to me quote "if you repeat these false accusations without any of your own reporting to back them up, you will be held responsible for harming me." He went on to say, be careful. There are people who lost their jobs trying to harm me. And if you pass on these damaging claims without your own reporting to back them up, that will become a serious problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: Pro-tip, never tell a journalist to quote "be careful."

All this comes as we have learned Moonves' exit also may not have been directly due to his sexual misconduct allegations, so is CBS botching this?

Here to break down the whole mess is CNN senior media correspondent, host of "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter.

Let's start with the threatening text message. What did you make of it when she revealed it?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely inappropriate and shocking that an executive producer with decades of news experience would talk that way, would act that way. But you know, Fager had been pretty angry in the messages that he has sent to me as well over the past couple of months. He was defiant. Nothing as nasty as that but he was defiant with regards to his job.

I think he felt that he was "60 Minutes." And that by accusing him of harassment and saying he engaged in toxic behavior, it was hurting the news magazine. But nobody is irreplaceable. And "60 Minutes" will go on and will be strong without Jeff Fager.

[18:40:13] CUPP: Well. And certainly, intimidation is not the way out of this mess.

STELTER: It should not be part of the brand. Right, right.

CUPP: So why do you think CBS made Fager's firing about this company policy violation?

STELTER: Right. It's a pre-text for, the real reason of these harassment allegations, these allegations engaged in unwanted touching and around the office and the party. Now, he always deny that. But those allegations have piled up.

CUPP: Yes.

STELTER: And there was another one in Ronan Farrow's story a week ago.

CUPP: Right.

STELTER: So what I think as happened? I think we are in a new phase of Me Too. First phase of Me Too, quick action from companies.

CUPP: Right.

STELTER: Matt Lauer was reported of harassed someone on Monday night. Wednesday morning, he was fired.

CUPP: Yes.

STELTER: We are not seeing that anymore. Now, instead, we are seeing people lawyer up. We are seeing the lawyers coming. We are seeing the consultants come in.

CUPP: Yes.

STELTER: People are trying to hold on to their job.

Moonves, how long? For six weeks.

Fager, how long? For six weeks.

So I think we're in this new phase of Me Too, where I think so many lawyers are involved, it's so complicated. In this case, CBS said, well, we now have proven you have violated a policy. Even though our lawyers are still trying to get to the bottom of the harassment allegation.

CUPP: Right.

STELTER: They had a pre-text to fire him. And by the way, those lawyers are still working. Les Moonves is out. Baker is out. Those lawyers are still working on this. Of course, they are benefitting, making millions of dollars. Hopefully, there's restitution or accountability that benefits the victims as well.

CUPP: Well, speaking of that, you know, Moonves could walk away with millions, multimillions as a sort of payout. What are you hearing on the latest of that?

STELTER: Yes, $120 million. That's the pot of money that's being transferred into a bank account that is going to sit there until the lawyers finish their work and until the CBS board can decide what to do. Now, what I think is eventually going to happen? I don't think he's going to make $120 million. But he could well go to court and arbitration and try to fight for every penny.

This is a guy who made like $70 million last year. So he is doing OK.

CUPP: Yes.

STELTER: He will be fine regardless but he does have a contract that did promise him a lot of money if he was booted. So again, this is the new phase of Me Too. There is so much money at stake and there is so many lawyers are involved. And it is not as simple as clear cut as maybe this was last year.

CUPP: Les Moonves' wife Julie Chen signed off from her Big Brother broadcast on CBS the other night saying, I'm Julie Chen Moonves for the first time.

STELTER: Yes. Never known it before.

CUPP: What do you make of that?

STELTER: Yes. Clearly, she is trying to send a message.

CUPP: Yes.

STELTER: But she does support her husband the she thinks he has been wronged in some way. Remember, you know, she is employed by CBS in two shows - "the Talk" and "Big Brother."

CUPP: Yes. Right.

STELTER: She took a week off from "the Talk" but I assume she will be back soon on "the Talks" and on "Big Brother." That's where she used this new line on Thursday night. I do think it's fascinating, is she daring CBS to get rid of her? Is she dare CBS to let her out of her contract? What do you think is going on?

CUPP: Yes. Clearly, she wants to send a message.

STELTER: Yes.

CUPP: I want to switch gears real quick to a major "New York Times" error.

STELTER: Yes.

CUPP: This story suggesting Nikki Haley used $52,000 of taxpayer money on curtains for her office at the U.N. that decision had been made during the Obama administration.

STELTER: Right. Right.

CUPP: A huge error. Definitely, reinforces this idea of, you know, a liberal media or overly aggressive media or a fake news media. What do you make of that story?

STELTER: I think it's just a blind spot on the part of reporters and editors in this case. And I don't want to say it's a blind spot that everybody has.

CUPP: Yes.

STELTER: But clearly in this case, the reporter made some mistakes and his editors made some mistakes. And I think this has to do partly with decline in editing, not just "The New York Times" but other outlets as well. When I worked there, four editors might touched my story before I printed it online. Now in some cases, it might be two editors and that does have an effect. CUPP: Do you think the response which was to tack on an editor's note

at the end of this and correction, is that enough? Should they pull the keys?

STELTER: Not enough. Because the story had already spread and it spread all across the internet.

CUPP: Yes.

STELTER: It has seen by lots of people. It's really hard though to pull something back once it's out there, unfortunately. I think a lot of it has to do with the particular behavior of this reporter, perhaps a bad apple. I don't want to go too far on that. I think it is dangerous to assume too much about all of the media from one mistake, but this was a bad screw-up by "The New York Times." And by the way, I still want to know, why did any government pay $52,000 for blinds?

CUPP: Great question.

STELTER: Whether it was Trump or Obama. Why did they spend that much money on blinds?

CUPP: Right. Thank you.

OK. For more on these stories, tune in to "RELIABLE SOURCES" tomorrow at 100:00 a.m. right here on CNN.

Up next, what one Republican in Congress is calling an administration failure, tells me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:49:08] CUPP: There is no question that America is half in, half out involvement in the Syrian war over two administrations now has been confused. I would also suggest that with half a million people dead and Bashar al-Assad totally unafraid of any global consequences for his war crimes, it's also been fairly gutless too. And it's been a failure.

That's how Illinois Republican Adam Kinzinger, who serves in the National Guard, put it in an op-ed for defense one this week.

Our lack of a strategy in Syria has been a failing practice, he writes. What happens in Syria and what happens in the Middle East has a very real impact on America's national security and the security of future generations.

His words come as Syrian government forces continue to prep for an offensive in Idlib, the last rebel stronghold in the country. The threat of chemical weapons, the killing and displacement of thousands of innocent civilians looming in the very near future. United Nations warned this week that what Assad is planning could represent the worst humanitarian catastrophe of the 21st century, all while the world watches.

I'm joined now by Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Congressman, welcome. You start this op-ed with, it's time to act.

The President just recently agreed to keep a U.S. military presence in Syria and to ramp up diplomatic efforts, but what else should this administration do?

[18:50:34] REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R), ILLINOIS: Well, I think it's important to look at the history here, and I don't like to point fingers in the past, but I think it's necessary in this case, which is when this whole thing started really around 2011, 2012, that was the opportunity to act robustly and in fact the world assumed we were going to. When chemical weapons were used, the world assumed we were going to act. And what happened is the interest of Assad became entrenched and under the Obama administration, you saw the introduction of Iranian and Russian forces, which made this all the more complicated.

So I think when we look at where we are today, the idea of a U.S. full intervention to end this is not going to happen. But we can make a massive difference, which is declaring Idlib and declaring certain areas of Syria no fly zone. That won't be challenged. The Russians know, the Syrians know that they can't challenge U.S. air power. That ends the humanitarian crisis at least from barrel bombings, declaring a red line when it comes to the use of chemical weapons as President Trump has. And I think he's very serious that if chemical weapons are used in Idlib, there's going to be massive consequences of which the last one is going to look small in comparison.

And then forcing through this, through sanctions to Russia, Iran, and on the Syrian regime and that serious military option, forcing us to the table to a negotiated solution, I think that's the only way out of this. Otherwise, you're going to have 3 million people displaced out of Idlib, another humanitarian crisis. And that is just creating and generating this next generation of ISIS that we are going to probably have to fight.

CUPP: What about your colleagues in Congress? What else would you like to see Congress do to staunch this genocide?

KINZINGER: Well, you know, I would love to see Congress do an authorization for the use of military force. And look, I have a lot of great members of Congress, great colleagues, but a lot of them are really scared when it comes to issues of war and peace.

CUPP: Sure.

KINZINGER: They feel like the last 15 years or the last 17 years, they are a little gun shy, and I get it, but looking at what would happen would American involvement, I think, is -- it would be astronomically bad and so I would love to see Congress go On the Record in support of no fly zones, in support of further sanctions, continuing to push back as the administration has, and they deserve credit for this against the Russian involvement in Syria and Iranian involvement.

And frankly, my colleagues on the other side of the aisle that are defending this nuclear agreement in Iran, they have to understand that part of the reason we stepped out of this agreement was Iran's behavior in Syria, among other places. So I think standing together would send a strong message.

CUPP: Well, one of your colleagues on the other side of the aisle, (INAUDIBLE), took the House floor two days ago. And she talked about President Trump's message on 9/11, talking about how the President cares about the victims of Al Qaeda's attack on this country. She said, but now, they are standing up to protect the 20,000 to 40,000 Al-Qaeda and other jihadist forces in Syria and threatening Russia, Syria, and Iran with military force if they dare attack these terrorists. Essentially, she is parroting the Assad and Russian propaganda. What do you make of that?

KINZINGER: Yes. Quite honestly, you know, (INAUDIBLE) change or what she's taken -- the approach she's taken in the Syrian war has blown me away for a long time. You can be against intervention. That's fine. That's a legitimate point of view. But the go to Syria as she did and to meet with the butcher of Syria, Bashar al-Assad and then to come back and express sympathy for Bashar al-Assad and saying that he is just standing up for Christians by killing half a million people, S.E., as a Christian myself, there's no Jesus Christ I follow that would support a dictator murdering half a million people. And so, that lack of human dignity, I don't understand. So I obviously firmly disagree with her. And you can be against intervention but to meet with the butcher of Baghdad is whole other thing.

CUPP: Lastly, President Erdogan of Turkey, which would sustain a huge part of the refugee crisis from an Idlib offensive, he is meeting with Putin on Monday. Is Erdogan sort of the last best hope, maybe, that Syrians have for a cease fire or is this kind of a lost cause?

KINZINGER: You know, it's confusing. Erdogan has been confusing. On the one hand, he shows sympathy to Muslim brotherhood tendencies. On the other hand, he kind of plays both ways. I think if he meets with Vladimir Putin as he is, he needs to be very intense about trying to get this situation solved.

I think we can solve Idlib. I think we can solve Syria if we come to a negotiated solution, which means Syria is probably, when it's all said and done, not going to look like Syria of ten years ago but giving people an opportunity to determine their own future.

But yes, if this Idlib offensive happens, and it's been stalled because of the word to this administration, which I think is also important to note, if this happens, the refugee crisis in Europe that we have seen is going to pale in comparison to, I think, what comes next.

[18:55:32] CUPP: Congressman Kinzinger, thanks for your time tonight. I really appreciate it.

KINZINGER: Any time. You bet.

CUPP: Stick around for "the AX FILES." Former Massachusetts governor Duvall Patrick joins David Axelrod next.

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