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S.E. Cupp Unfiltered

President Trump Praised His New Interim AG Matthew G. Whitaker; All Eyes On Florida Recounts; Democrats Retook Control Of The House Flipping Upwards Of 30 Congressional Districts While Republicans Made Gains In The Senate. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired November 10, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:19] S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: Welcome to UNFILTERED.

Here is the headline. Here we go again? Once more, the Sunshine State finds itself at the center of election controversy where recounts are under way in Florida's the governor's race, Senate race and agriculture commissioner race.

Joining me for the latest is CNN correspondent Ryan Nobles.

Ryan, a lot has happened today. Where do things stand right now?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, S.E., 8.5 million votes cast in the various races here in Florida and it's come down to this. A massive recount of these three statewide races that is actually already under way. It was triggered by the secretary of state automatically at noon today and already in Miami-Dade County, which is the biggest county in Florida, they are counting again. This is an automatic machine recount. It's got to be done by Thursday of next week. They are going to take a look at the numbers and if any of these races fall within a quarter of a percent and we think at least the Senate race will, that will mean another round of counting.

This a hand recount of the over votes and under votes. They have until the 18th of November to wrap all that up. And then that could start another stage of lengthy and costly court battles as everyone here tries to figure out who the next senator, who the next agricultural commissioner and who the next governor of Florida is.

S.E., there is no doubt that the people of Florida are having whiplash. There are echoes of what happened here 18 years ago with the Presidential election. They hope that things are going to be different this time around. Obviously, a lot of laws have been passed to try and make sure something like this doesn't happen again. But we are not going to know how this whole thing plays out until they go through each step of this process - S.E.

CUPP: I see hanging chads in my head, Ryan. Thanks for the update.

Stay put. We will check in with you later in the show.

But right now, tonight, the other headline. A republic, if you can keep it.

With his back against the wall, the President has re-embarked on an all too familiar campaign to undermine and cast out on American institutions because he didn't lose control of the House, America did.

Almost as soon as the results were in, Trump questioned the validity of the U.S. elections. Unleashing a storm of tweets in the past 48 hours, that without any evidence, accused election officials in Florida and Arizona of fraud.

On Wednesday, he turned his attention on the Mueller investigation firing his own attorney general, Jeff Sessions, for failing to be his dutiful stooge at the department of justice. In his place, Trump bypassed the similarly principled number two Rod Rosenstein and instead, announcing the appointment of Matthew Whitaker as acting attorney general. Coincidentally, I'm sure Whitaker has been a vocal critic of the Mueller investigation which he will now be charged with overseeing.

Next in the path of Trump tornado, the President turned his wrath towards the press for daring to ask him questions. After a chaotic press conference on Wednesday, the White House pulled the press pass of CNN chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta.

On Friday, when asked if Acosta's pass would be permanently revoked, Trump doubled down saying more press passes could be pulled in the future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Jim Acosta is a very unprofessional man. He does this with everybody. He gets paid to do that, you know. He gets paid to burst in. As far as I'm concerned, I haven't made that decision, but it could be others also.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: He also fired away at a PBS reporter calling her racist and another CNN reporter calling her question stupid.

And finally, though, check back in a few minutes, Trump renewed his attack on birthright citizenship promising an executive order to end the practice because that's likely unconstitutional, though the move is almost certain to tee up a battle in the Supreme Court. That's something the President readily acknowledges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We will be signing it soon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A political stunt?

TRUMP: No, no, we are always signing it. We are doing it and it will probably work its way up to the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CUPP: Yes, this is all fine. In a matter of one week, the President has attacked the rule of law and the constitution on no less than three fronts. The independence of the department of justice, the first amendment, freedom of the free press, and the 14th amendment.

Now, lest you say, but, S.E., you didn't care when Obama threatened the press. Oh, yes, I did. Plenty of us were critical of the 44th President for seizing phone and email records of reporters from the A.P. and "The New York Times" and FOX News reporter James Rosen. And of course other Presidents before Trump were guilty of constitutional overreach.

In 1937, FDR infamously attempted to pack courts with friendly judges.

There was the box 13 scandal with 1948 when LBJ was accused of stepping 202 additional ballots into a box which miraculously swung the Texas senate election in his favor at the last minute.

And of course, Nixon's Saturday night massacre in 1973 where he fired both his attorney general and deputy attorney general when they refused to fire Archibald cops, the special prosecutor charged with investigating the Watergate scandal.

Well, history is repeat with greedy and craven presidents who tried to expand executive power and undermine the constitution. None has attacked the rule of law and the constitution on so many fronts at the same time. And we haven't even gotten to the latest allegations of campaign finance violations like Trump.

Here's the deal. As Americans, we have the distinct privilege of having inherited a Republican system of government which conspicuously features systems of checks and balances, and separations of power.

Also enshrined in this republic, the rights of the free press which in part is meant to ensure that those entrusted with the power this system affords them will be held accountable. Our system of democracy can be clunky, it can be slow. It sometimes can be arcane. But for the past 230 years, it's served us pretty well.

The founding fathers in their infinite wisdom came up with this system to prevent the very kind of arbitrary ego driven imperialist behavior that Trump finds so alluring especially when he feels threatened. So the question is, how strong is our republic? We are about to find out.

For more on this, let me bring in the host of the ax files, David Axelrod. Good to see you.

Axe, is Trump freaking out in light of the midterm election results?

[18:07:01] DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It sure would seem that way. I mean, you know, the thing about Donald Trump is there has never been an R on his gear shift. Whenever he encounters troubles or obstacles, he tends to step on the gas. And that's what we've seen with the primary different kind of person would have been reflective about the result because at the end of the day, it was quite a good day for Democrats and the Republican Party lost in places that the Republican Party has rarely lost before. And that should have been a cause for him, a cause for some introspection. He is not an introspective person.

CUPP: No.

AXELROD: And seems like his reaction was to lash out, was double down in all the ways that you identified. So, you know, I'm not very hopeful about what the next weeks and months are going to bring.

CUPP: So the first thing the President did when it was clear the Republicans would keep the Senate was fire Jeff Sessions because he could. Now, some are saying not to worry, the Mueller investigation will be just fine. Democrats will have options. Are you worried about the integrity of that investigation?

AXELROD: Well, I think everybody has to be worried about it because I think the reason that, you know, Mr. Whitaker was not the first, second, third or fourth person you would think of, there is actually a succession system in place that would have called for the deputy attorney general to be the acting attorney general, perhaps the solicitor general and there is a prescribed roster to choose from. Instead, he got plucked out of semi-obscurity. And apparently, now we know that he auditioned for this role on CNN by speaking about how he thought the Mueller investigation was illegal and out of bounds. And he had prescribed ways for essentially, you know, thwarting it. And so, one gets the distinct feeling that he is there for that purpose. Maybe he won't do that, but there are other things that have come up that relate to the other things on your list that are disturbing because he has written and spoken about the court system as an inferior branch of government.

CUPP: Right.

AXELROD: He thinks Marbury versus Madison, one of the bedrocks of American government was improperly decided. And so, if he is advising the President on the constitutionality of the things that he is doing, we are in for some rocky moments here.

CUPP: Well, on to the next one. I'm sorry for the whiplash but there is a lot to cover and I want your take on that all. Trump is alleging.

AXELROD: Life in Trump world, you know.

CUPP: I know, get used to it. Trump is alleging without evidence that there has been election fraud in Arizona. Only after it started looking like Kyrsten Sinema might win. He is alleging election fraud in Florida. Let me be clear, there is evidence of incompetence there but none yet of fraud at all. What are the consequences if your mind of the President of the United States casting doubt so recklessly on the electoral process?

[18:10:18] AXELROD: Look, my great concern about it. I very much believe in this system that we have and I understand that when someone in the party opposite you gets elected, they are going to make policy and you may not like that policy. That's fine. That's the system.

But we need the President of the United States who is a trustee of our institutions to uphold those institutions and not deliver hammer blows to them when they deliver a result that he doesn't like. The fact of the matter is there is no evidence in either state of fraud or illegality and the Republican secretary of state in Florida said as much today.

So the President, he tends to want to invalidate institutions that defy him or where results defy him. He has done that with the press. He has done that with the rule of law. He is now doing that with the elections and it feeds conspiratorial instincts on the part of some of his base and it's very, very dangerous.

CUPP: So what do we do? I don't want to meet Trump's freak-out with a freak-out, right. I mean, he is clearly trying to overwhelm us with chaos. He wants confuse and divide us. But we have been through worse crises as a nation before. Should we just kind of assume our system can handle these stresses?

AXELROD: Absolutely. Well, we need to demand that our system handle these stresses and stand up for these institutions. I think the election was a big, an important moment because a lot of voters who here to fore had supported Republican candidates said not this time because they wanted to put a check and a balance on the President.

CUPP: Right.

AXELROD: The court system has been, I think, very resilient in the face of his attacks. Election authorities including the secretary of state in Florida today have stood up for the integrity of their system. So yes. I think we have to hope and believe that our system can withstand this. But, you know, and I must say about reporters, I was, as you know, I spent years as a journalist. It is unsettling to see what the President is doing. But I urge everyone not to take it personally. As personal as he has made it and recognize that Presidents have disliked what reporters have done since the beginning of the republic.

CUPP: Right.

AXELROD: He is taking it to an extreme and a dangerous extreme but the answer is to just continue, to do our job, to do the job of journalists. The first amendment was the first amendment for a reason, to provide that check and balance on people in power. They are not always going to like it. But I think the best answer to it is to continue to do that work with or without a hard pass.

CUPP: Good advice. Keep calm, carry on.

David Axelrod, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

AXELROD: All right, S.E., good to be with you.

CUPP: Thanks.

Next, will Trump's acting A.G. try to undermine the Mueller investigation? And can Democrats do anything about it?

Later, I will check back in on the latest from Florida's messy recount.

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[18:17:16] CUPP: President Trump is defending his choice of Matthew Whitaker as interim attorney general following the firing of Jeff Sessions.

Today, President Trump praised his new interim AG tweeting, Matthew G. Whitaker is a highly respected former U.S. attorney from Iowa. He was chosen by Jeff Sessions to be his chief of staff. Mr. Whitaker is very highly thought of by Senator Joni Ernst. Senator Chuck Grassley. Ambassador Terry Branstad, Leonard Leo of federalist society and many more. I feel certain he will make an outstanding acting attorney general.

Well, I just want to point out, Whitaker was installed by the White House, not Jeff Sessions. Nevertheless, the President's tweets come as Democrats continue their call for Whitaker to recuse himself from any involvement in the Mueller investigation due to his vocal opposition to the special counsel.

Shortly after Whitaker's appointment was announced, minority leader Nancy Pelosi tweeted, given his record of threats to undermine and weaken the Russia investigation, Matthew Whitaker should recuse himself from any involvement in Mueller's investigation. Congress must take immediate action to protect the rule of law and integrity of the investigation.

For more on this, let me bring in CNN legal commentator, President of the Senate conservative fund, Ken Cuccinelli and CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Laura Coates. Thank you both for joining me.

Ken, let me start with you. Let's stipulate for the record, your honor, the President has a right to fire his AG. But I think we all know why he fired him because Sessions recused himself from the Russia investigation. Are you worried about the precedent this could set for another President who might, you know, be a Democrat?

KEN CUCINNELLI, CNN LEGAL AND POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I think there's really been bad blood between the President and his choice for attorney general Jeff Sessions for a while.

CUPP: Yes. Fair.

CUCCINELLI: And certainly, it has always rubbed the President the wrong way that Sessions recused himself. And I think Sessions' recusal was overbroad but it wasn't inappropriate.

CUPP: OK.

CUCCINELLI: And the calls now for Whitaker to recuse himself are absolutely baseless and they are silly, frankly. The reason --. CUPP: OK, Wait. Answer the question I ask first.

CUCCINELLI: The reason Sessions recused himself.

CUPP: Ken, first, answer the question I asked because we are going to get too and I want your thoughts on Whitaker. But the question I asked was, are you worried that firing the AG under these circumstances and replacing him with someone who is hostile to an investigation could set a bad precedent for Republicans down the line when a democrat is in charge?

CUCCINELLI: And I answered your question, S.E. And I said, no. And the reason I said no is because I think the presumption that there's going to be a problem is misplaced.

I remember being on a CNN panel with seven others the night Jim Comey was fired. And all I heard from everybody else on that panel was how terrible it was that the Russia investigation had been ended by firing Jim Comey. I was the only one who repeatedly stood up for the fact that the rest of the FBI was going to keep doing its job and lo and behold, they did. And Whitaker will too. That should be our starting presumption.

[18:20:33] CUPP: OK. Laura, there was some question whether or not the President even had the legal authority to appoint Whitaker without the consent of the Senate. What's your take on that?

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that question is still outstanding because the answer seems to be absolutely not. There's an order of succession that is in place largely based about the constitution about people who are able to be Senate confirmed, given the advice and the consent of the Senate. Now, this is somebody who was a principle officer in the federal government. Meaning he only really has to report to the President of the United States and our Supreme Court just last year, Clarence Thomas, one of the President's own favorites has actually said that even for the national labor relations board, the general council for that particular organization who only had to report to the President that that person had to be confirmed by the Senate and could not just be placed there willy- nilly.

So, if somebody who is the (INAUDIBLE) the NLRB would have to go through Senate, why would not the person who is in charge of the department of justice. And of course, it makes sense, S.E., that would be the case. This is somebody who because of that line of succession, it could have gone with the deputy AG who was Rod Rosenstein, the solicitor general, Noah Francisco.

This is akin to, for example, if President Trump himself were incapacitated. We just said, you know what, General Kelly, why don't you step in? I know Mike Pence should the next person in line but you know what, I feel like it should be you so go ahead.

CUPP: Laura, Ken is very sanguine about how this investigation is going to go. But do you think could Whitaker potentially do some damage to the Mueller investigation in his capacity as interim attorney general?

COATES: Yes, the keyword here is interim because we all know from the President's initial tweet that there is going to be a more permanent person placed later on, presumably somebody who would follow the Senate confirmation. But even temporary power can be extremely impactful. He could do a number of things. For example, he could be briefed in, according to the statute that Mueller operates under and asked for explanations about all these prosecutorial and investigative decisions. He could actually say no to any future steps he would like to make.

Now, there is some recourse for Mueller to go to Congress and ask for some clarification if there's discrepancy between himself and say Matthew Whitaker or he could do what I think is the most obvious, S.E., which is given that he will be temporary and his ability to ask questions about the nature of the investigation and the full scope of it, couldn't he just go back and tell the President of the United States everything he would like to know and fully brief him? There is nothing stopping him and that's one of the concerns.

CUPP: Well, Ken, talk about the temporary status because, you know, it would seem to me Trump sort of disavowing him at first saying, I don't know him, he doesn't know me, might not speak to his lengthy employment. What do you think?

CUCCINELLI: Tenure, yes. Well, that certainly has been one feature of such positions. And I don't expect him to be a lengthy tenure. I don't expect him to be the person the President nominates. And even if he was, I don't expect that the Senate would confirm him which is why I don't think he will be nominated in the first place.

CUPP: OK.

CUCCINELLI: The Senate know -- there are plenty of Republicans in the Senate, and I'll ignore the Democrats for a moment for the obvious reasons.

CUPP: OK.

CUCCINELLI: There are plenty of Republicans in the Senate who have said, we want clarity on this subject and we want a commitment from someone we have faith in that this is going to be handled in an appropriate way. That doesn't mean Mueller gets to do whatever he wants. But it does mean that it won't be unreasonably interfered with. And frankly, from the President's perspective, he ought to let it go. This thing is near the end. There's no evidence of any collusion.

CUPP: Right. Why don't you tell him that, Ken? I think you are right. You should tell him that.

CUCCINELLI: Well, you know what? I would.

(CROSSTALK)

CUPP: Thank you. I have got to go. Got to go. Well, you know he watches us. So I'm sure he just heard you.

Thank you very much Ken. Ken and Laura, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

COATES: Bye.

CUPP: Next damning report says Donald Trump directed hush money payments during the 2016 campaign.

And coming up, how House Democrats will handle subpoena power and Nancy Pelosi.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:26:42] CUPP: During the 2016 campaign, then candidate Donald Trump directed payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels and former Playboy model Karen McDougal. That is according to a new "Wall Street Journal" report that contradicts the President's previous denials and resurrects concerns he violated campaign finance laws.

The journals says Trump was involved in or was briefed on nearly every step of the plan meant to silence the two women about their alleged affairs with Trump. This information on Trump's central role was laid out in an 80-page draft indictment meant for long time Trump fixer Michael Cohen before he flipped. Stormy Daniels' lawyer Michael Avenatii always eager to inject himself into a story had this to say.

For over eight months, we have been battling Donald Trump and the lies he has told about his payment to my client. This is further vindication that we were right. I think the President should be indicted consistent with what I said in my "New York Times" op-ed.

We will be back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:30:08] CUPP: In the Red File night with great power comes great responsibility. Democrats for the first time in four years control a chamber of Congress. What will they do with their newfound power? The opportunities will be plentiful. Trump's tax returns, the Russia probe, they could even move to impeach. At the helm, a familiar face, at least for now. Nancy Pelosi has already declares she is the best person for the job of speaker of the House. But what will the fresh faces and the new younger more diverse democratic house have to say about it?

We will soon find out. Democrats are set to hold a closed door vote in just 18 days. For more on this, I want to bring in CNN senior political commentator, former governor of Michigan, my friend, Jennifer Granholm.

So Jen, before we get to what Democrats will do, first, let's talk about the speakership. I just want to put on the screen a list of the Democrats who openly said they opposed Pelosi for speaker, including challengers and incumbents. Don't squint. You can't read them all, there is too many. Now, not all of these people won elections but many did. Do you,

governor, expect all of that opposition to, like, poof, go away or will Pelosi have a fight on her hands?

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, since there's nobody who declares that they are running against her, you know, it's hard to suggest that she's going to lose.

But I will say, I mean, of the list that you have up there, I think there are nine Democrats who won and who won in seats that are plus 20. In other words, they won overwhelmingly plus 20 Democrats by huge margins. So it's kind of hard to see how she would lose.

She said in a great interview as you probably saw with Chris Cuomo the other night that she feels very confident that she has this and nobody can count noses like Nancy Pelosi.

And let me just say one other thing. S.E., I mean, it is kind of interesting that in the year of the woman, that we would be talking about, I say as my party, the Democratic Party, that we would be talking about throwing out somebody who is the most experience and most effective speaker that we have seen, certainly in a lot of the lifetimes of the young people who were just elected.

CUPP: But to that point, I get the argument that Democrats won the House. For that, Pelosi should be rewarded. But I'm wondering if you are worried that leadership is all too happy to have younger representation but not actual power in the party.

GRANHOLM: Yes. It's a really great question. And Nancy Pelosi is a smart cookie. She knows that people want to see a next generation of leadership.

CUPP: Right.

GRANHOLM: So it's going to be up to her to populate these committees with leadership representing those up and coming leaders. Some of which - some of who are just elected. She is no dummy about this. I mean, she knows how to negotiate against Republicans and she knows how to negotiate with Democrats too. So I think it's going to be, you will see that new leadership face in the committees that she assigns. And I think, you know, she is going to have to decide too, how long she is going to serve part of her negotiation with them. Might be, you know, I'm going to, I don't know. I mean, she has got to get them through this horrible period from our perspective with Donald Trump as President. And nobody is more seasoned to be able to do that. At some point, if there's a Democratic leader next up, you know, who knows?

CUPP: Well, on to oversight between tax returns, Mueller, and possible campaign finance violations involving those payments to Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, which do you think Democrats are more likely to focus on first when it comes to oversight?

GRANHOLM: Well, I do think they cannot go after right now the stuff that Robert Mueller is going after, right. CUPP: OK.

GRANHOLM: You are not going to duplicate what he is doing.

CUPP: Right.

GRANHOLM: And so they are going to wait to see what comes out on that sort of - on the personal side of going after Trump. But their oversight under the constitution, under article one of the constitution means that they do have oversight over the departments of government, et cetera, and they are going to take a look at that.

And honestly, I think there's so much material there that Democrats have to make a decision about how much together here, how much are they going to put into oversight versus how much into actually getting pieces of legislation passed? That's going to be a battle to achieve.

CUPP: Yes. Jen, you are so right. I think that will be the defining task for Democrats going forward with this newfound power.

GRANHOLM: And it's another reason why Nancy Pelosi should be in power because she was there. You may not, because you are a little bit younger than I am but she was there when Bill Clinton was impeached, as was, by the way, Hoyer and Jim Clyburn. But they saw what happened by the overreach of the Republicans because Bill Clinton's popularity ended up shooting up to 73 percent because there was an overreach.

[18:35:02] CUPP: Yes, it is a good reminder.

Jen, thanks so much for joining me, governor Granholm.

GRANHOLM: You bet. Glad to be on.

CUPP: Good to have you as always.

All right. The votes are in. Now it is time to count them all over again. The latest on Florida's statewide recount after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:39:45] CUPP: It's been four days since the midterm elections but millions in Florida, Georgia and Arizona have no idea who their next senator or governor will be.

In Georgia, the standup continue in the governor's race between Republican candidate Brian Kemp and Democratic candidate Stacey Abrams.

In Arizona, ballots are still being counted in the Senate race between Democratic raptors in Sinema and republican rep Martha McSally.

And all eyes on Florida like its 2000 all over again. Remember that headache? Where do those races stand?

Well, joining us again from Tallahassee, Florida is CNN correspondent Ryan Nobles. What's the latest on how long this recount is supposed to take there

and whether there are any initial tallies?

[18:40:28] NOBLES: Yes. So the big thing, S.E., is after everything that happened in 2000, Florida did go through an exhaustive effort to try and remake their election system so that they wouldn't have that huge controversy that they had 18 years ago.

So the system here is much different. In other words, there are no hanging chads and there are firm deadlines that they have to reach. The first one will be Thursday. That's when they have to get that automatic recount done. They will reassess the vote at that time. If it's within a quarter of a percentage point, any of the races, then they move to a hand recount.

They are not going to recount every single ballot by hand but only those that they consider to be over votes or under votes. And then they have until the 18th of November to get all of those votes tabulated and declare a winner.

Now, the system is in place and the system is designed for everything to end on the 18th. But S.E., the way this looks a lot like 2000 is that there are lawyers that have come from all over here to Florida and many of them, the same names that you recall from the 2000 election. They are prepared to file lawsuits if they feel that their candidates are on the losing end of this. And that's why this process could take longer than the deadline on the 18th. But Florida officials are hopeful that the vote margin will be clear and decisive on the 18th and that it will be all over.

CUPP: Ryan, you are giving me agita, OK. I appreciate that. But you give me, agita.

All right. Thank you.

I want to bring in CNN political commentator Bakari Sellers, former member of the South Carolina state legislature.

Bakari, I want to play some sound from Andrew Gillum earlier today just a few hours ago to press conference. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ANDER GILLUM (D), FLORIDA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: Let me say clearly, I am replacing my words of concession with an uncompromised and unapologetic call that recount every single vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: So Bakari, I know you talked to the campaign and you talked to Andrew. You talked to him today.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I shot him a text today.

CUPP: What did you talk about in terms of strategy? SELLERS: So I just think that his message that he stated was OK and

it's on point. The fact is that he is not asking for anything extra. He is not asking for there to be anything done that is out of the ordinary. In fact, he is asking for what happens in elections which is every single vote to be counted for.

CUPP: Right.

SELLERS: And so, we will see the lawsuits that are filed by the Nelson campaign. But Andrew is just stating that he is fighting for democracy and I don't see a problem with that at all.

CUPP: Yes. So the President is alleging some kind of fraud. As I mentioned earlier in the show, there has been some evidence of incompetence but none of fraud. But Trump tweeted, this is an embarrassment to our country and democracy. Are you worried that with all the flashbacks to 2000 and this being Florida that some of this plays into Trump's hands a little and ends up looking like a circus, which is not good for Democrats or anyone.

SELLERS: You do have incidents where like an Opalaka (ph), where you have crates of - 40 different crates that are filled with votes and whether or not they were postmarked at the right time, should they be counted, should they not be counted? So yes.

But you know, you had Rick Scott who ask for an investigation. You had Rick Scott to monitor those investigations. So the Florida he secretary of state said that there was no criminality. So we know that.

CUPP: Right, a Republican.

SELLERS: A Republican. There is no criminality. Is there some incompetence? Sure. There's incompetence. But at the end of the day, this is a quite simple metric. Everyone who casted a ballot legally, their vote should be counted.

CUPP: Yes.

SELLERS: And so, you know, I think that Andrew is kind of resolved to the fact that he may not come out on top on this.

CUPP: Yes, he said that.

SELLERS: But everything that he has been fighting for throughout this campaign, you have so many new voters who are part of this process. They need to make sure that they know their vote counts.

CUPP: Yes. And I think sort of stating that in the press conference, this might not end up in his favor.

SELLERS: Right.

CUPP: It's a way of ensuring that this process has integrity. Because if he ends up losing as a result of this, at least we all sort of saw transparently what this election has been about. SELLERS: But I also think there's a vast difference with Andrew

Gillum's positioning and Stacey Abrams positioning.

CUPP: OK.

SELLERS: Because I think that Stacey Abrams has had to overcome more voter suppression than we have seen in a very long period of time. And Brian Kemp oversaw his own race for governor and he is the secretary of state responsible for election which is mind boggling.

CUPP: Yes.

SELLERS: He kicked many thousands of voters off the voter rolls. And so, I think that there are issues there that put Stacey and Andrew in a different category. But in Georgia, Arizona, and Florida, Democrats have to have the same message. Just make sure every single vote is counted.

CUPP: Yes. And in Arizona, Sydney McCain even came out to say, wait a second, you are not going to count - you are not going to call and count my vote? This is, you know, I sent in one of those votes that you are now saying you are not going to count.

[18:45:3] SELLERS: In Georgia, you had instances where people were mailing back their ballots, their absentee ballots.

CUPP: Yes.

SELLERS: And they will be returned to sender and it had a pre-marked address on it. So their ballots weren't even counted. And those are the addresses that were placed on the envelope. So you know, I pray for all of them. And I just think for democracy's sake, who cares about what Donald Trump is saying. Every votes need to be counted.

CUPP: Well, I know you are going to be following all of this close elections and recounts.

SELLERS: Right.

CUPP: And so, we will be checking in with you again. Thanks, Bakari.

SELLERS: Thank you so much.

CUPP: Appreciate it.

OK, Bakari Sellers, thank you.

We may still be sorting out the midterms, but that doesn't mean it is too soon to look at lessons for 2020. That's next.

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[18:50:10] CUPP: So all of the ballots have been cast probably. The votes have been tabulated mostly. And the midterm elections are in the rear-view mirror, kind of. In the end, the conventional wisdom was largely correct. Democrats retook control of the House flipping upwards of 30 congressional districts while Republicans made gains in the Senate. So where do we go from here?

For more on this let me bring in former Clinton White House press secretary, CNN political commentator Joe Lockhart.

Joe, you and I debated earlier this past week back in Washington about whether this was a wave or not. I can see Democrats made significant gains in the House as they were expected to. But I still think Trump had a pretty good night. If Democrats did something right though to win those House seats and flip a few governor seats, what was it? What was the good message for Democrats?

JOE LOCKHART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it is a couple things.

CUPP: OK.

LOCKHART: The first is, they didn't get caught up in all of the things that we spend a lot of time talking about.

CUPP: Yes.

LOCKHART: Look at the ad spent. That's where the rubber meets the road.

CUPP: Yes.

LOCKHART: What are they spending their money on? Fifty-four percent of the ads were on health care. Very few campaigns were running ads on the Mueller or on Russia and all of that. So -- and the corollary to that is they focused on pocketbook issues, health care, preexisting conditions. That's why you saw Republicans scrambling at the end to say, no, no, voted against it, now we are for it. You know, we were for it before, we are against it and you know, confusing it.

CUPP: Right.

LOCKHART: So I think -- and I think if you look at the numbers, the most significant thing with the numbers is Democrats are now plus nine in this. Not even in the House. Democrats did --.

CUPP: Oh, all right.

LOCKHART: That's a big deal.

CUPP: Right.

LOCKHART: And I think, you know, you say you take that and you add it to Democrats having a lot more info on how to engage Trump, you know, at the ballot box.

CUPP: Well, let me ask you that because where I see -- where I see Trump's success was obviously in keeping the Senate, picking up some seats and to me I'm not sure Democrats learned a lesson nationally in how to take on Trump going forward.

LOCKHART: Yes. CUPP: What sort of lesson do you think Democrats should learn on the

flip side?

LOCKHART: Yes. I think there's a lot of debate among Democrats, among my friends, you know, should you go to the middle or should you go far left?

CUPP: Right.

LOCKHART: I think that's the wrong debate. I think it's about that what we have learned here is authenticity for being what I call an unapologetic Democrat. I'm a Democrat that's for what I'm for.

CUPP: Yes.

LOCKHART: And I'm not sorry -- I'm not ashamed to talk about it. We have candidates who try to move back to the middle and that doesn't work. Because when you are at plus nine nationally, your first order of business is get those plus nine to the polls.

CUPP: Right.

LOCKHART: Not, you know, be perfect on -- in the middle on the issues. So I think that's an important lesson. And I do think, you know, across the country a lot of Democrats learned, and you know, the reason Democrats were disappointed is we wanted to shame Trump. We wanted to repudiate him because we think so.

That's not how you win elections. You win elections by going and convincing people you are going to make their lives better. And that's why they won the House. And did as well as could be expected and once these are all counted maybe better in the Senate.

CUPP: Yes.

LOCKHART: But there are going to be places that is Trump country.

CUPP: Yes. No, I think that's a really good way to put it.

Finally, Democrats are now preparing for 2020 as you know.

LOCKHART: That's right.

CUPP: This week we learned that California congressman Eric Swalwell is seriously considering. Senator Gillibrand of New York seriously considering along with 87 other people approximately.

LOCKHART: I have ruled myself out.

CUPP: OK. You are not running. I'm not running.

LOCKHART: Yes.

CUPP: So what's the strategy this time? Because the last one didn't work. LOCKHART: Yes. Listen, I think the strategy, we will learn from

this, which is we are going to go into Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and have this message about how the middle class is being left out.

CUPP: Yes.

LOCKHART: And, you know, that the health insurance pool is being undermined by Trump and that Trump, you know, overall has during his time everyone has fallen further behind.

CUPP: OK.

LOCKHART: If you look at it this way, Trump has 3.7, you know, unemployment in this country. And the economy is growing strong.

CUPP: Yes.

LOCKHART: And Democrats are still busting on it.

CUPP: OK.

LOCKHART: Two years from now if the business cycle goes the way, most economist expect, it is going to be a little tougher economically.

CUPP: OK.

LOCKHART: I think that bodes very well for Democrats.

CUPP: Well. We will see. I'm sure some Democrats will take your advice. They will be smart to. Others, not so sure. But a lot of people are going to be running. We will keep tracks on all of them.

Joe, thanks for joining me tonight.

That's it for us. But on Monday, you can catch me on Jimmy Kimmel at 11:35 p.m. eastern on ABC. Don't miss it.

And up next, Van Jones on what to expect from House Democrats.

Plus, a rare interview with White House senior advisor Jared Kushner about prison reform, the killing of Jamal Khashoggi and more. Stick around for "the VAN JONES SHOW" next on CNN.

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