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S.E. Cupp Unfiltered

Trump Says, Democrats Pursuing Unconstitutional Impeachment; Biden Slams Trump, Calls For His Impeachment; Fox News Anchor Shepard Smith Abruptly Leaves Network; Senior Fox Employee Tells CNN, Smith's Exit "Feels Like Death In The News Division"; Biden Campaign Asks Networks To Stop Booking Giuliani; Biden Campaign Sent Letter To "New York Times" Blasting Coverage Of Debunked Hunter Biden "Conspiracy Theory"; Airstrikes And Shelling Intensify In Northeast Syria. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired October 12, 2019 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: Welcome to UNFILTERED.

Here is tonight's headline, boot and rally. After booting U.S. troops from Northern Syria, leaving our Kurdish ally toss fend for themselves after a Turkish invasion, President Trump did what he always does when facing a bad news cycle, he rallies.

It wasn't just the bipartisan fallout from Trump's inexplicable Syria blunder, creating bad headlines for the president, there were also a handful of court defeats, the resignation of his acting Homeland Security Chief, damning testimony from his ousted Ukraine ambassador. Nothing a good old-fashioned hootenanny can't solve. Trump let all his rage out at the second of two rallies in his many days. Warning, the president is about to use foul language, so you might want to earmuff your kids.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: The radical Democrats' policies are crazy, they're politicians, they're corrupt, their candidates are terrible, and they know they can't win an election day, so they are pursuing an illegal, invalid and unconstitutional bullshit impeachment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: If he sounds Nixonian, it's because things are getting downright Watergate-y. Multiple arrests, leaked text messages, alarm bells from inside the White House and more to come next week. The House will hear from former Russia's adviser, his deputy assistant secretary of state, the counselor of State Department, and perhaps most significantly ambassador to the E.U., Gordon Sondland, he of the infamous call me text.

But much like Nixon, Trump is doing his best to obstruct all that, taking the unprecedented step of freezing out a co-equal branch of government in a temper tantrum letter to Speaker Pelosi, basically saying, with no legal footing, that the White House will not be complying with congressional subpoena power.

When it comes to Congress and the separation of powers, Trump is not a fan. Congress, in his view, is meddlesome, annoying and, well, it just gets in the way, recall after a Republican-controlled Congress, he hates those too, refused to appropriate funds for his border wall. He said, screw it, I'll just take the money they already approved for the military and reroute to the wall. Yesterday, a federal judge in Texas ruled that that move was unlawful.

Trump went around Congress to sell $8 billion in arms to Saudi Arabia after Congress voted against it, exploiting a loophole in federal law. He threatened to strike Iran without congressional approval. The House passed legislation barring him from doing that, but it went on to die in the Senate.

And then, of course, there's a blatant rejection of Congress' constitutional authority that got us here, the Ukraine aid, the reason we're talking about all of this. Trump put a hold on funds approved for Ukraine by a bipartisan congress, funds that were green-lit by State Department officials, and he never gave a reason for delaying those funds. Of course, a transcript of a phone call with the president of Ukraine, during which our president asked for a favor, has given lots of sane people an idea.

OK, here's the deal. Trump has gotten away with bypassing Congress and ignoring our separation of powers, and that's because Republicans have largely let him.

Congress is supposed to be a check on the executive, it's supposed to have the power of the purse and it's suppose to require permission for the authorization of military force. And on nearly every count, Trump has essentially said to congress, you people are irrelevant.

Promising elected lawmakers now that he will stonewalls their investigation, telling subpoenaed witnesses not to testify or cooperate, he'll keep doing it as long as he knows he'll get away with it.

But when will Republican members of Congress, elected to be a check on the executive, to control the purse and to play a leading role in matters of war, when will they decide to take their jobs back? We'll wait here.

Congress returns this week here to talk about what they'll do about Trump's obstruction is Democratic Congresswoman Debbie Dingell.

Congresswoman, you've been saying we need to let this process play out, follow the facts. How do you do that though when the White House is stonewalling?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): So, good evening, S.E., it's good to talk to you.

CUPP: Thanks.

DINGELL: The fact of the matter is that one of the reasons that I was reluctant this summer to come out was because how divided this country is.

[18:05:05]

And the point at which I came out was when it a whistleblower had filed a complaint, a President Trump inspector general had found that the complaint was credible, urgent and of danger to our national security. We have to be very transparent about this as this is happening, and we have to make sure that the American people understand why we are doing it. They can't believe that we're throwing the kitchen sink at him or that this is a witch hunt.

They have to understand what we do, that the rule of law is the glue that holds us together as a nation, that nobody is above the law, that my job, when I take that oath of office, is to protect our democracy and our Constitution. And that's what we're doing right now, following the facts, getting the facts. By the way, we've got lots of speculation. We still don't have all the facts.

CUPP: Right. So do you believe that Trump's stonewalling and trying to keep you from getting all the facts, do you think that amounts to obstruction?

DINGELL: I think it doesn't help. I think that he is looking and asking for a contempt of Congress, though you're seeing some of the witnesses come forward after they are subpoenaed. I keep going back to when I was young, and I really was in high school or college working for Senator Robert Griffin, a Republican senator from Michigan. And I flew back with him the day that he called Richard Nixon and told him that he needed to resign.

And up until that moment, he had been with him. I was lucky enough, my family knew President Ford. I remembered what it was like back then. And suddenly they heard the tapes, and they knew he had lied.

CUPP: Yes.

DINGELL: And I think that that's why getting the facts right now, being slow, deliberative, making sure that we're getting them, and that people -- we do have to worry about our national security. I am someone that thinks a classified setting is probably the appropriate place for some of these briefings, but what can be made public should be public.

And I want to get back and talk to my colleagues, Republican and Democrats, because, by the way, this shouldn't be partisan. This is about us as Americans. And we're fighting for our American democracy. We need to be looking at this as Americans, not partisans.

CUPP: So Speaker Pelosi had a call with the caucus yesterday. What did he say about next steps or strategies?

DINGELL: You know, I think the speaker has tried very hard -- we've been home for two weeks while the committee has been doing the work they had to do because of the Jewish holidays. She has kept people abreast, the three committee chairmen that have been -- Chairman Schiff, who's been doing the classified briefings, but assisted by Chairman Engel and Chairman Cummings, have been talking about the work that's been done.

She too is being very deliberative and very -- she wants people to know what's happening, talking about the other issues. Yesterday, there was some discussion of Syria. But when we get back next week -- Chairman Schiff stepped out of the hearing and was still hearing from the witness yesterday, just to make sure that he was talking to his colleagues.

But I think all of them are still in the data collection process, concerned by what they're hearing, concerned by refusing to talk to us. These are three equal branches of government. The president can keep trying to blow us off but that's not the Constitution is written.

CUPP: Well, I know you want to be deliberative and Nancy Pelosi wants to be deliberative, the committees want to be deliberative, but Nancy Pelosi also does not want this to drag on forever. And so how do you balance the need to get all the facts where that Trump is stonewalling, but also not wanting this to carry on through to the election?

DINGELL: Well, I think he himself is going to decide part of if the White House refuses to cooperate, you're seeing subpoenas, some people are choosing to come forward voluntary. I think the next few weeks, as people are being careful and deliberative, we'll see where this is going, and where this path goes will probably be determined November, December, which is what I think should happen. Because the constant -- making this go on forever tears us apart as a country.

And I think we all need to be worried about -- one of the things I want to know and may never know, because this is a classified setting is, was Russia part of this whole Ukraine deal? Did Putin -- there are lots of rumors, and I know nothing. So let me say that really clear to everybody, I don't know anything.

But this week, we've gotten reports from other intelligence agencies of other countries about how Russia is trying to destabilize democracies in Europe and Western Europe, we know they're trying to do it to us. You know what, we all need to, not Republicans or Democrats. And this country who love our democracy, our democracy isn't something you take for granted. We have to work to protect it every day. And that's what I'm focused on right now.

CUPP: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, thanks so much for coming on tonight. I appreciate it.

DINGELL: Thank you.

CUPP: If polls are any indication, Joe Biden hasn't even been grazed by the impeachment bullet.

[18:10:05] The president's attacks just aren't sticking with primary voters. Will that last though? That's coming up.

And later, the reported fracture at Fox News is now a break, as the Chief News Anchor and only truth-teller, Shep Smith, drops the mic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUPP: There's a reason Trump is mounting these smear campaigns against Joe Biden. He's the frontrunner. And as far back as the midterm elections, the president was reportedly worried about Biden running. For his part, Biden has faced blistering friendly fire from his Democratic opponents, including a viral clap-back by Kamala Harris at an earlier debate. He's made several gaffes on the campaign trails, mixing up dates and places, leading some to question his stamina. And now, he's at the center of Trump's attacks regarding the impeachment crisis.

And through it all, Biden has not only survived, but thrived. In fact, it seems like the Ukraine fight has invigorated him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's shooting holes in the Constitution, and we cannot let him get away with it. He's just flat doing what he's always done, lying. And his lying is matched only by his manifest incompetence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[18:15:03]

CUPP: Biden is still sitting atop the polls, this according to Politico. In more than a dozen state and national Democratic primary polls since Trump launched his nearly daily fuselage of attacks, accusing Biden and his son, Hunter, of corrupt business dealings in Ukraine, Biden's standing has remain largely static. There's nothing discernible (ph) to show Biden has been punched in the nose over Ukraine, said Tim Malloy, a pollster with Quinnipiac University.

CNN/New York Times Democratic Presidential Debate is Tuesday night at 8:00. We'll see how Biden does when he's fending off his Democratic opponents again.

Here to discuss is former DNC Chair, Governor of Virginia and veteran of Clinton presidential campaigns, CNN Political Commentator Terry McAuliffe.

Welcome, Governor.

TERRY MCAULIFFE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: S.E., great to be with you.

CUPP: Thanks for coming.

You know as well as anyone that these campaigns are rough stuff. Do you think the campaign smears on Biden have actually helped him?

MCAULIFFE: Well, they certainly should. And if I were Joe Biden, I would use it as an opportunity to say, why is Donald Trump attacking me? Because he's scared of me. And if I were Biden, I would be out there every single day whacking at Trump. What you want to do as a candidate to get into a two-person race, he wants a Trump versus Biden.

So he ought to use this as an opportunity. We're not going to take all the junk that Trump did before. He's going to go as low as low can be, and all the Republican made-up about emails and Benghazi, we're not letting that happen this time. We're going to fight back.

CUPP: Now, there's no evidence that either Biden, Joe or Hunter, did anything illegal or unethical in Ukraine. But do you think it's fair to ask Joe Biden at the next debate a question about Ukraine and why his son was on the board of an energy company? Is that fair game, in your mind?

MCAULIFFE: Absolutely. I think when you're running for president of the United States, everything is fair game. If Joe Biden can't handle a question from a fellow Democratic contender, how you possibly are going to be able to deal with Donald Trump?

So I think, S.E., sure, that's all fair, put it all out there. Joe better have a good explanation because he's going to get asked this over and over. And the quicker he can put it to bed, focus back on Trump, the better off he's going to be and the Democrats are going to be.

CUPP: So Trump has, thus far, as you know, focused most of of his attacks on Biden. And we know, as you said, how far he's willing to go, how low he's willing to go, including engaging foreign countries and withholding aid to pressure them to investigate his rivals.

But I don't think -- see if you agree, I don't think we have any idea what Trump has planned for Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders should one of them get the nomination, but I think it will be brutal. Do you think they are ready for what Trump could have in store for them?

MCAULIFFE: I do think they're ready. I couldn't agree more, S.E., it is Going to be brutal. Nobody has any idea how low Donald Trump can go.

I mean, Washington Post has now chronicalized, what is it, 1,200, 1,300 lies the man has told since he's been president. Truth doesn't matter to him anymore, so he will say absolutely anything and Democrats have got to be prepared to fight back and you go back and lay out that positive agenda, but to defend ourselves.

And, listen, I think it's going to be very hard for Trump to win again. I go back to those three states Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, we lost by 77,000 votes, S.E. 92 million people did not vote in '16 and woke up the next day and said, holy cow, how did this possibly happen? And you saw in '17 in Virginia, the biggest turnout, biggest electoral

pick-up in 140 years. You saw in '18, we won the House of Representatives, the biggest since '74, seven new governors, eight state chambers. People are fired up. They're not going to miss their vote this time around.

CUPP: Tulsi Gabbard, another Democratic contender, this week said that the DNC was rigging the election. That echoed some complaints from the last election, where many people blamed the DNC for boxing out Bernie Sanders. Are you concerned about that kind of of charge from a Democrat?

MCAULIFFE: Yes, I don't like to hear Democrats making these charges. I think the DNC has done a very good job putting these debates together. I was the DNC chairman who actually started these debates. They didn't sponsor debates until I did them into 2004. And my feeling was to give everybody an opportunity, not just the frontrunners, everybody an opportunity to get out there, to lay their plans out and it was a way to be much more inclusive.

What the party is saying, with 25 candidates, at some point, you've got to show some strength. We can't continue to have several dozen candidates because we've got to begin to formulate our message as we go forward. And if you can't get 2 percent and a certain number of donors, how are you possibly going to compete against Donald Trump?

So I support Tom Perez and the work the party has done an excellent job on this. People have to quit whining, get out there, positive message. This is about beating Trump. This is about taking our country to the next level and it's not about worrying about DNC debates. Get over it. Move on.

[18:20:00]

CUPP: What are your thoughts on how impeachment and all of this will affect some of the other -- the down-ballot races in places like Louisiana and Virginia?

MCAULIFFE: So in Louisiana today, we have Governor John Bel up today, John Bel Edwards, if he gets 50 percent. I'm hoping he gets that done today. You know, they had a tragedy today. A building fell over, as you know, in New Orleans. He suspended his campaign. LSU is playing Florida tonight, a big game. So, hopefully, the voters will get in before that 8:00 kickoff tonight. But, you know, I think we're going to do very well in Louisiana.

As you know, S.E., we have Virginians. I just spent all day, such a diverse group of candidates, (INAUDIBLE) I was out campaigning with today, Elizabeth Guzman. And we've got such a diverse -- we're going to win the House and Senate in Virginia this year in 23 days, for the first time in 26 years, the House, the Senate and have the Governor's mansion.

So I can tell you, impeachment, and I didn't know which way it was going to go, not that it matters they're going to do the right thing. but it has really fired up our base. The numbers in Virginia are moving our way, people are fired up. People say, oh, it's going to motivate the other side. S.E., they're voting hell or high water. It doesn't matter.

CUPP: Yes.

MCAULIFFE: This has motivated Democrats to come out.

So I hope they do it, I hope they do it quick, get it done by the end of the year, but, you know, Trump is not going to hand over documents because the more facts he gives up, the more trouble he is in. So he'd rather fight obstruction than the truth, which is actually hurting him.

CUPP: Well, we'll see how that plays out. Quickly, before I let you go, Hillary Clinton, you know her well. Earlier this week, she tweeted to Donald Trump, don't tempt me to get in the race. I talked to serious people who believe she is actually considering it. What are your thoughts? Is she getting in?

MCAULIFFE: She's not getting in. I think she's having the time of her life. Trump talks about her every single day.

CUPP: Yes.

MCAULIFFE: Donald Trump cannot get over the fact that Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes than he did for president. He goes to bed every night, it gnaws on him, it keeps him up, it drives him mad. And Hillary is having so much fun reminding him of that and talking about it, because she did get more votes and Trump's massive ego can't handle this, S.E. It's driving him batty. I mean, he's nuts today, and Hillary is enjoying adding some more gas to the fire.

CUPP: I'll tell my friends she's not getting in. Terry said that. Thank you, Terry McAuliffe, I appreciate it. Thanks for coming on.

MCAULIFFE: Thanks, S.E. Thank you.

CUPP: All right. Coming up, Fox News, a star play in the Trump administration has taken one step closer to officially becoming state T.V.

And a little later, quote, you are leaving us to be slaughtered. Those are the words of the leader of Kurdish forces in Syria to an American diplomat. The may be the words that finally break Trump's hold on GOP lawmakers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

CUPP: In a move that sent shockwaves through cable news yesterday, Shepard Smith, long-time anchor at Fox News, announced it was his last day. He is leaving the network.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEPARD SMITH, FOX NEWS HOST: It's been an honor and my pleasure.

Even in our currently polarized nation, it's my hope that the facts will win the day, that the truth will always matter, that journalism and journalists will thrive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUPP: According to our own Brian Stelter, Shepard Smith decided last month that he simply had enough, enough of the president's lies, enough of the president and his own Fox colleagues attacking him for his coverage. We've talked here before about a growing rift between Fox hosts.

Shep, Andrew Napolitano, Chris Wallace on one side, Fox's pro-Trump lineup on the other. Well, that rift just took a hit. Senior Fox employee tells CNN that Shep's departure, quote, feels like a death in the news division.

Here to discuss are Republican Strategist, Shermichael Singleton and Assistant Editor at "The Washington Post," David Swerdlick.

David, what did you make of that sudden announcement?

DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, S.E., first of all, if you're going to sign off, that's the way you sign off. You don't leak it out. You just do your thing, I'm out of here, drop the mic and walk out of the studio.

CUPP: No problem, just sort it out.

SWERDLICK: Well played by Shep Smith.

Here's the thing. I think you get to a point, if you're Shep Smith, that you have to say, look, I'm a news guy, and we're tipping too far away from news. If you think about an outlet like Breitbart, and I'm not every day in the business of saying something nice about Breitbart, they don't pretend to be something they're not, and I can respect for that.

Fox News pretends to be fair and balanced, a news organization, but they have tipped all the way over into Trump bootlicking and I think Shep Smith simply said, I've had enough.

CUPP: Well, Shermichael, I have been stunned. I have lots of friends at Fox, stunned to watch anchors of the network mocking and attacking another anchor, Shep Smith. That would never happen here. It wouldn't happen for very long. Let me tell you that. I mean, is that -- was that sort of the breaking point and do you think Fox might reconsider just allowing this sort of Hunger Games play out on television?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I would imagine so. And I would say about Shep Smith, it takes a significant amount of courage to say what you're thinking inwardly/outwardly, to say this is wrong. It takes courage to go against the tides. It takes courage to stand alone when the president of the United States is attacking you. It takes courage to speak out when your own colleagues are attacking you.

CUPP: Right, throwing you under the bus, yes.

SINGLETON: And so, I guess, at some point, Fox News, which -- I watch Fox News, I respect a lot of the people at Fox News, is going to reach upon where they have to ask themselves, where do you want to find ourselves on this line in history? Do we want to say we would have, should have could have, or do we want to say, we made the right decision?

CUPP: I think they're just looking at the ratings, and the ratings are killing it.

I mean, David, if I'm Bret Baier, Chris Wallace or Shannon Bream, people I know, people I respect, I'm wondering how much longer they stay. Do you think they're having those thoughts?

SWERDLICK: I would like have to guess that they're having those thoughts. Although I will say, with Shep Smith's departure, someone like Chris Wallace now is in the control position, because if he walks out the door, Fox can't pretend at all that they're a fair and balanced, neutral news-gathering organization.

So the fact that one anchor of the news division has gone out the door gives the others a little more power to say, if I leave, you guys are just news max light.

SINGLETON: And it has to be concerning to some of those folks. If they go too far to speak truth to power, as Shep said, will the network back them if the president attacks, will the network back them if one of the more opinion hosts goes after them?

[18:30:08]

And as we see with Shep, the answer is no.

CUPP: I want to turn to Democrats for a minute. Joe Biden's campaign sent a letter to The New York Times, a strongly worded letter, about a column that they had written about his son, Hunter, and Ukraine. Joe Biden's campaign also sent a letter to TV networks urging them to stop booking Rudy Giuliani. Is that a bad look pressuring journalists and media outlets to cover things the way you want them covered?

SWERDLICK: It is a bad look. Earlier this week, let me just take a left turn on here, S.E.

CUPP: Yes.

SWERDLICK: Earlier this week, Vice President Biden made a comment also about Senator Warren saying, oh, she's a planner, not a president.

CUPP: Yes.

SWERDLICK: That's the kind of quip that's gotten him in trouble. Just make your case, Vice President Biden. CUPP: Yes, right.

SINGLETON: Right.

SWERDLICK: You don't like the guests that are booked on TV, you don't like who The New York Times and The Washington Post gets quotes from, don't worry about it. Stop playing media critic, just make your case to the American people. It makes them look weak ...

CUPP: I agree.

SWERDLICK: ... and it gets them off message.

CUPP: And also Shermichael, Kamala Harris repeatedly on the campaign trail has told reporters leave Joe Biden alone when they're asking about ...

SINGLETON: The Ukraine and his son.

CUPP: ... coverage and stuff and how he's being attacked. You leave Joe Biden alone and she even said that she wasn't going to be 'duped' into having this conversation. Should the media leave Biden alone? Are we duping her by asking about this?

SINGLETON: I like Joe Biden. I respect the former vice president, a lot of people do. But if he is afraid of what he's going through now how in the heck can voters expect him to be the nominee of the Democratic Party because it's going to be far worse. Joe Biden and his campaign needs to make the case directly to voters ...

CUPP: He's the frontrunner, right.

SINGLETON: ... through his surrogates and through their campaign that this is why I'm the frontrunner, this is why I'm capable of going head-to-head with the craziness that's going to come once I'm the nominee and they're not doing that.

CUPP: It really bothers me, this kind of language because it demonizes the press and that might not be the intention there by Kamala, by Joe Biden, but it plays into Trump's argument ...

SINGLETON: Absolutely.

CUPP: ... that the press is the enemy of the people.

SWERDLICK: It plays into that argument and I think it plays into the bigger problem that we've been having throughout the Obama era, the Trump era where a lot of our viewers and readers don't always zero in on the fact that it's not our job to be on a side.

CUPP: Or to be liked.

SWERDLICK: We all have opinions.

CUPP: That's right. SWERDLICK: We all have analysis. We're not all there to be on a side

and with Vice President Biden, as Shermichael said, he's running to be the President of the United States, the top job in the world.

CUPP: Yes.

SWERDLICK: If you can't take this ...

CUPP: We're not leaving it alone.

SINGLETON: If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen as my grandmother said.

CUPP: All right. David, Shermichael, thanks so much.

SWERDLICK: OK. Thanks, S.E.

SINGLETON: Thanks, S.E.

CUPP: Great conversation as always. OK. Lawmakers on both sides are making a full break with the President on a decision with huge National Security implications, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:36:38]

CUPP: In THE RED FILE tonight, chilling words from the commander of a Kurdish-led Syrian democratic forces to a senior U.S. diplomat. "You have given up on us. You are leaving us to be slaughtered," Gen. Mazloum Kobani Abdi said to U.S. special envoy in a meeting on Thursday. Details of which were exclusively obtained by CNN.

It is the fourth day of Turkeys invasion of northern Syria where U.S. troops had been protecting Kurdish fighters before being withdrawn from the area on orders from the President. More than 40 have died since the invasion. Some civilians have died as well, including children.

And today reports that U.S. troops still operating near the majority Kurdish city of Kobane outside the area of withdrawal came under fire from Turkish positions. No injuries were reported but a Pentagon official said ominously that it's in an area known by the Turks to have U.S. forces present.

Now, ISIS family members are attempting to escape from encampments in northern Syria and at least five ISIS militants have escaped prison in Nov Corps (ph). Trump's withdrawal in Syria earned the rare condemnation of many Republican lawmakers, including reliable allies like Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell, but to what end?

Graham has promised to wrangle votes for sanctions on Turkey when he returns from recess. And one retiring Congressman, John Shimkus, has told his chief of staff to pull my name off the I support Donald Trump list. Did I mention he's retiring? Now, let me be clear, Trump's decision in Syria represents a moral and

ethical failure. Kurdish forces sacrificed 12,000 lives fighting ISIS so we wouldn't have to. After committing to their protection, we are abandoning them for no good reason.

For the Kurds, America just essentially issued them a death sentence. For would-be allies and partners in the future, they now know the United States cannot be trusted. And for the Syrians, America is once again turning its backs.

Joining me now to discuss this is Bill Kristol, Director of Defending Democracy Together. Bill, I spoke to many Republicans this week, including two Congressman and a Senator who said for them Trump's decision in Syria is far worse a transgression than Ukraine. Do you expect to see any real pushback against Trump other than strongly worded tweets?

BILL KRISTOL, DIRECTOR, DEFENDING DEMOCRACY TOGETHER: It's a different kind of transgression, but it's an unbelievably, not just foolish, but really a moral, I wouldn't even say immoral as well as strategically foolish decision. I mean, no one in the U.S. government wanted this happen, the Defense, State Department, you name it, neither major party wanted it happen.

There wasn't any pressure from the Democrats to do this and Republicans didn't want to do it. Who wanted to do this? Erdogan, Putin, Assad and Trump has a phone call with Erdogan and does this. And now we do see the beginning of real war crimes that looks like a woman who's head of the Syria Future Party, Hevrin Khalaf, was murdered today by jihadists, it looks like, maybe Turkish-backed.

So it's really terrible what's happening. I mean, I hope Republicans, yes, and Democrats as well do what they can. It's hard to overcome a president who's willing to be so recklessly irresponsible in foreign policy no matter what you do in Congress.

[18:39:57]

But for me I think the reason it's had a huge impact is this, this is it, there's no more McMaster, there's no more Mattis, there's no more John Kelly, there's no more Tillerson, there's no one constraining and stopping Trump from having a phone call with Erdogan, god knows what was discussed, god knows what other issues Trump has sort of has in his mind about Turkey and so forth and Russia, for that matter, Putin. And he just does it and his team follows orders.

This is what the next year would be like. This is what the next five years would be like if Trump's reelected. And all of these Republicans who were supporting him for reelection, they need to say why won't this happen time and time again. Lindsey Graham is all outraged about this.

Can Lindsey Graham guarantee to us or even not guarantee, could he even convince us or make an argument to us that Trump won't do this again and again, not only for the next year, but for the four years of his second term that Lindsey Graham is supporting him for. So I hope Republicans really take this seriously and think hard about what this says about Donald as commander-in-chief.

CUPP: Let's also talk about Trump's base, because largely they support him no matter what but at least one reliable Trump voting block is not onboard; evangelicals' top leaders, Franklin Graham, Tony Perkins, Pat Robertson all expressed their dismay at Trump's actions this week. But does that translate into voters, into any real defections for voters?

KRISTOL: Well, we'll see. There are these three challenges in the Republican primaries. I think the leadership has to come from the top on this. Voters tend to look to their leaders for guidance on foreign policy. And again, for me this is the moment when Republican Senators, especially senators, not House Members who have six-year terms, who are serious people, some of whom really know a lot about foreign policy need to step up and not just say, oh, this is a bad decision by Trump we're putting a few sanctions on.

But this is really making me think about how whether we can afford to have Trump as president for the next year, let alone for an additional four years.

CUPP: Well, it blows my mind, I mean you and I are conservatives, Bill, to think that a Republican president may be responsible for unleashing ISIS into Europe. I am old enough to remember when Republicans were outraged that Obama was going to release a couple of guys from GTMO. Will Republicans have to answer for this in future administrations? Will the party have to answer for this foolish decision?

KRISTOL: I think we correctly criticize President Obama for too hasty withdrawal from Iraq. That was more complicated to compare here, but still I think he didn't do the right thing and then he, of course, had the red line and didn't intervene in Syria.

And as a result, we got a horrible jihadist insurgence which took us quite a long time to put to end and there were a lot of deaths and ISIS is still there and the jihadists are still there. And now Trump is doing what Obama did, but worse in a sense.

CUPP: Worse, yes.

KRISTOL: Because there was no pressure to do it. I mean, from his party or from the other party. And again, the only people who wanted this to happen were Erdogan, Assad and Putin.

CUPP: Bill Kristol, always good to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on.

KRISTOL: Thanks, S.E.

CUPP: The cracks in the President's support aren't just anecdotal, they're actually measurable. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:47:08] CUPP: New polls for the President not so hot. NPR, PBS, Marist

published a poll this week showing 52 percent of Americans now approve of the House formally starting an impeachment inquiry. Now, perhaps worse news for Trump, a Fox News poll found 51 percent approval for Trump's actual impeachment and removal from office, yikes.

As you might have seen, Trump was not pleased with that not one bit. OK, CNN Senior Political Writer and Analyst Harry Enten is here to break down these numbers for us. Harry, it's been more than two weeks, just over two weeks since Nancy Pelosi announced ...

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: It feels like a year ago.

CUPP: ... it really does, this impeachment inquiry. So what are these new polls tell us about what's happened over the past two weeks?

ENTEN: Look, I think before the impeachment inquiry started, what we saw there was a Monmouth poll back in August which showed that 51 percent thought it would be a bad idea to start impeachment inquiry. Those numbers flipped around overnight. Now, a clear majority, it's not just that Marist poll, it's also polls from Washington Post.

CUPP: Yes.

ENTEN: And what we basically see is there's a clear majority of Americans who are supporting this impeachment inquiry. So the idea would be politically bad for Democrats does not seem to be borne out.

CUPP: Right.

ENTEN: I will say that the Fox News poll on supporting, impeaching and remove is a little bit of an outlier towards the northern end. On there, if you look at the average polls, it's more of a split. So we are seeing a split between the impeachment inquiry in which a clear majority of Americans are supporting that versus impeach and remove where it's closer to a cost (ph).

CUPP: Speaking of the Fox News, well, I just want to clear something up for the President.

ENTEN: Yes.

CUPP: But also I think some viewers probably don't know the President is very angry with this Fox poll because he believes, I'm imagining, that it's like a poll of Fox viewers. And so that seems like a betrayal and like Fox, his favorite network, should not have this information. This is not a poll of Fox viewers, right?

ENTEN: No. This is a poll of voters and the fact this is Fox News is a very good polling outlet. They pretty much nailed the popular vote in 2016 showing Hillary Clinton beating Donald Trump. They pretty much nailed the national house vote back in 2018.

They are quality pollsters and what they are showing is basically what everybody else is showing across the board in terms of the President being unpopular. There are professionals that are doing a professional job.

CUPP: OK. So among Republicans, there's still not a majority support for impeachment.

ENTEN: No.

CUPP: But is that number ticking up? Is support ticking up?

ENTEN: It is ticking up a little bit. So when the impeachment inquiry, if you look at an average of polls, about 16 percent of self identified Republican support that. That's actually a little higher than the President's disapproval rating with Republicans, which I think is rather interesting.

CUPP: OK.

ENTEN: On the impeach and remove only about 11 percent on average support that among Republicans.

CUPP: OK.

ENTEN: That number is going to have to move up if in fact you're going to see, say, Republican lawmakers perhaps change their mind. Because at this point, Republican lawmakers have no real reason to go against the President on impeachment because they know it's going to upset their base.

CUPP: When you look back at Nixon, eventually public approval, public support for impeachment came.

ENTEN: Yes.

CUPP: It didn't start there.

ENTEN: No, did not.

[18:50:00]

CUPP: Public support for impeachment wasn't there for Clinton. He had that on his side.

ENTEN: Correct.

CUPP: Where do you expect based on just the movement of the past two weeks in some of these polls, where do you expect it to go?

ENTEN: Yes. I think that's the real question, right? If you look back at '73, '74, it wasn't really until the early summer in which you got a plurality of support for impeaching and removing Richard Nixon. And right now we're already pretty much there. We're very close to it.

CUPP: Right.

ENTEN: So we start out on northern end. I think the real question is whether or not in our polarized error, whether or not there's a lot of room for movement. But the fact is, we've already seen some movement from before the impeachment inquiry to now, so perhaps we'll see it going forward, but we'll see.

CUPP: Harry Enten, thank you so much for breaking it all down.

ENTEN: Thank you.

CUPP: We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:54:42]

CUPP: Exclusive blare, "The Washington Times'" headline, self- declared socialist, AOC splurges on high dollar hairdo. That's right, the right wing paper was outraged this week. The Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez got a pricey cut and color at a D.C. salon called the Last Tangle in Washington.

In the canon of excellent hair salon puns, that is right up there with hair force one, a real place in Newport, New Hampshire.

[18:55:10]

Anyway, while lambasting the lawmaker for spending an estimated $300 on a haircut, low lights and a hypothetical tip, The Washington Times' writer seem to imply this was incongruous with AOC's socialist philosophies.

Now, it's hard for me to take whatever political point you're trying to make seriously when you put the words exclusive and hairdo in the same headline. But the 600-word piece earn groans from political circles over its alleged sexism. "Would you care if a male politician got a pricey haircut?" They complained.

It turns out, "Yes. Yes, we would." Just ask Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Marco Rubio all of whom have been subjected to outrage over the costs of their trims. It isn't necessarily sexist to criticize AOC for her $300 haircut. It is done though. As far as personal indictments go, this one is pretty thin.

As journalism goes, it's hanging on a razor's edge. I'd like to cut a few inches off this column. Sorry, I'm just giving this stupid story the seriousness it deserves. OK, that's it for me. Up next, former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid joins David Axelrod to discuss the impeachment inquiry and its 2020 impact. Stick around for "THE AXE FILES."