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U.S./Egypt Move Closer to Israel-Hamas Cease-Fire; Missile Strike on Gaza School Sparks Protests; Dutch Crash Experts Arrive in Ukraine; Dutch P.M. Vows Closure and Justice; Will Europe Toughen Russian Sanctions?

Aired July 25, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there and good morning. I'm Michaela Pereira. John Berman is off today. Happy Friday, everyone, those stories so much more right now @ THIS HOUR.

Some critical moments right now in the push for a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. Will the warring sides agree to Secretary of State John Kerry's plan to stop the blood shed? We are learning new details right now.

The U.S. and Egypt are moving closer to agreements with Israel and the Palestinians on a one-week humanitarian cease-fire that would start Sunday. Several diplomatic sources are telling this to CNN. Quote, "We are hoping to have an announcement sometime tonight," as one of our sources said.

Officials in Gaza, meanwhile, say more than 800 Palestinians have been killed, most of them civilians, including many, many children. On the Israeli side, 33 soldiers, three civilians have been killed.

Now, neither side are accepting blame on a packed U.N. shelter in Gaza. Sixteen people were killed and more than 200 others were wounded as they tried to seek shelter.

Palestinian officials condemned the strike, calling it, quote, "Israeli brutal aggression." But Israel says it's possible that a rocket fired from Gaza fell short of Israel and exploded at that school.

Meanwhile, anger over the attack prompted thousands of Palestinians to protest overnight in the West Bank, violence erupting there. Israeli troops shot and killed two Palestinian men, wounding scores of others. Israel says 13 of their officers were injured.

So we're getting an update, as I mentioned, on this temporary cease- fire, a weeklong humanitarian cease-fire. We want to bring in our global affairs correspondent Elise Labott -- she's in Aspen -- to talk about the status of these Mideast peace talks.

So there's word, your sources are telling us, that it would be a humanitarian cease-fire, but the hope is it would be an opening.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Michaela. The situation in Gaza is very dire right now, and obviously this humanitarian truce would help bring in some medical supplies and bring out some of the injured, some of the dead bodies.

But at the same time, sources are saying that they hope this one week could be used to have more fuller negotiations on a longer cease-fire that would also address some of the underlying issues of the conflict, the political, the security, the economic issues that are underlying both on the Israeli and Palestinian side, particularly the reopening of the border crossings with Gaza.

That's one of the main things that Hamas has been demanding to sign on for the cease-fire, so the hope is that the fighting will stop. We're told that the U.S. is working not only with the Egyptians and the Israelis and Palestinians, but Qatar and Turkey are really working to try to get Hamas to sign on.

So we're hoping for an announcement --

(AUDIO BREAK)

PEREIRA: Our Elise Labott there in Aspen, bringing the latest on this.

Why don't we turn to Jerusalem now and our Wolf Blitzer who is on the ground there? And, Wolf, we're hearing word of a humanitarian cease- fire being in the works.

We know that last time around, the Egyptian cease-fire that was on the table was summarily dismissed by Hamas. They sort of felt there was not enough in it for them, and they felt it was very one sided. We're hoping that Hamas will feel differently this time.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Right, the Israeli accepted the last one, Hamas rejected it, and we've seen what's happened in the week that has followed.

The Israeli security cabinet, the eight members of Prime Minister Netanyahu's security cabinet, they literally just a few moments ago wrapped up their meeting at the defense ministry in Tel Aviv, no read- out yet on what they decided.

We do know that going in at least two, maybe three of those ministers in the cabinet, they were ready to vote against the cease-fire. They don't want Israel to stop, give Hamas a timeout. They want to try to finish what Israel has been doing

We'll see what the majority, though, decides. We expect to get a statement from the prime minister of Israel momentarily, at least some indication of which direction they are moving, accepting or rejecting.

We do know that Secretary of State John Kerry did phone Prime Minister Netanyahu last night, made the proposal and we'll see what happens.

Kerry, by the way, at around -- I'm told around 2:30 p.m. Eastern, together with Ban Ki-moon, the U.N. secretary-general, will be making a statement, and we'll learn then whether he's going to Paris, whether he's coming back here, whether he's going back to Washington. We'll see the status. Of course we'll also have to see, assuming the Israelis accept the cease-fire proposal, we'll have to see what Hamas decides to do. They have been under a lot of pressure from other Arab leaders to go on and accept the cease-fire. We'll see if they do.

One final note I just want to point out for our viewers, we've been following this story carefully, Michaela. As you remember about a week or so ago, the Israelis lost several soldiers in an armored personnel carrier. One of those soldiers in that armored personnel carrier, Hamas claimed they had the soldier. They showed some dog tags.

Today -- the Israelis have been saying ever since then that soldier, Staff Sergeant Oron Shaul, that that soldier was missing in action. Just a little while ago, a few minutes ago, the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces, announced that that soldier is no longer MIA. He is KIA. He's killed in action.

They say they have his remains, and they have declared that he was killed in action in that one battle in northern Gaza. So that's just another element of what has been going on.

PEREIRA: All right, a development there for us. Wolf, thank you so much.

And again, as you mentioned, Ban Ki-moon and Secretary of State John Kerry making some sort of announcement to the press around 2:30 Eastern time, CNN will be watching that. We'll bring that news to you.

Obviously this is a story that is developing by the hour. Again, a potential humanitarian cease-fire could be reached. Word of that is coming to our sources. We'll keep watching that situation for you.

Another story that is certainly garnering a lot of attention at this hour, the situation in Ukraine and MH-17. Dutch forensic experts could actually get to the MH-17 crash site in eastern Ukraine. That was the prime minister's goal anyway, more than a week that a missile brought down that airliner with 298 souls on board.

Now Australia is sending police to help secure that massive crime scene. International officials who are already there have said they're surprised at just how big, how widespread, and how vulnerable the site is.

In the meantime, more coffins carrying victims back are arriving in Netherlands. This is the third day of arrivals. We understand another flight with as many as 40 more victims is due tomorrow.

Almost two-thirds of the victims were Dutch citizens. Imagine the grief in that nation. We know it could take months to identify all of those remains.

I want to turn to our Phil Black in Donetsk, Ukraine. Good to have you with us, Phil. You've been doing some great work for us on the ground.

We understand that the experts coming in from the Netherlands could be arriving any minute now or may very well already be on scene. What are you hearing about that? What can you tell us?

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, there is already a small number of Dutch experts on the ground today along with Australian experts. They are traveling around the site in the company of those European monitors that have been there from the very beginning, the Organization of Security and Cooperation for Europe.

We're only talking about nine experts in all between the Netherlands and Australia. It's really in the assessment phase. They are preparing for a much larger presence.

We know that both of those countries, Australia and the Netherlands, are talking about really ramping it up in the coming days with a much bigger experts of not only investigators, but also police from both countries to secure that site.

That is what they are hoping to do. We don't precisely know when they are going to pull the trigger on the plan to deploy those groups into the field, into that site. You can expect the negotiations are currently under way likely between those countries, between the pro- Russian rebel forces here, involving Russia as well and the no doubt the Ukrainian government also.

A lot to work out, because it is a big deal to bring in a big number of international people like this, a big foreign force, into what is really the middle of an ongoing civil war, Michaela.

PEREIRA: We know, Phil, how tense it has been the day of, the days following, and subsequently.

Have you seen and are you feeling a presence and an immediate threat? Are you sensing that those inspectors are going to need to be armed there?

BLACK: Well, this is an ongoing conflict zone. The fighting continues. It continues on the outskirts of Donetsk where I am here, not far from this position. It continues within earshot of the crash site itself.

Ukrainian government forces and the pro Russian militants are still fighting each other daily. There is still a great deal of heavy use of artillery. You can hear it out at the site. It is very much a constant rumble. We know that mortars and indirect fire have been used on the outskirts of Donetsk today as well.

This is the environment these forces are coming into. It is obviously combustible, dangerous, unpredictable, and we know that these governments are considering arming some of these officers.

It would be an extraordinary situation if they were to do so, but it shows how serious and just how concerned they are about getting to that site and ensuring it is safe, Michaela.

PEREIRA: And the concern there is, too, that not all of the remains have been removed. The bodies have been, not to be gruesome, but some of the remains could still be there.

They want the families, the host nation countries, want those remains back. That is obviously a concern while fighting still exists there.

Phil Black in Donetsk, thanks for the latest update. Please stay safe.

Ahead @ THIS HOUR, strong words from the Dutch prime minister as remains of more victims arrive on Dutch soil.

Also ahead, we're going to take a look at tougher sanctions, sanctions with teeth, are they going to be imposed on Russia, and the question is will they work? We'll look at it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: This morning, the remain of dozens more victims of Flight 17 are arriving in the Netherlands. By tomorrow, it's expected the final bodies taken from the crash site should arrive on Dutch soil.

The somber ceremony of returning the bodies continues. We're showing you a live picture.

The remains of some victims, however, still have not been recovered, and with access to the area still an issue, Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte told CNN he'll do anything and everything he can to bring closure to those families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK RUTTE, DUTCH PRIME MINISTER: One, that we will do everything in our power to bring back our people, to bring back their loved ones.

Secondly, that we want to get to the bottom of this. We want to know what has happened, who has done this.

And thirdly, I will not rest before I've done everything I have in my power to bring those perpetrators to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Strong and decisive words there from the Dutch leader.

Europe's leaders are expressing resolve and anger as well over the downing of Flight 17, but as they meet again today in Belgium, the world waits to see if they will indeed impose tougher sanctions, economic sanctions on Russia.

We want to discuss this with Nicholas Burns. He's former U.S. ambassador to NATO and an expert on Russia and Ukraine.

Ambassador, always a pleasure to have us -- have you with us on our air. Got to talk to you about the sanctions. We know that if Europe's leaders hit Russia in the wallet, given their ties economically to that country, that they will also hit themselves as well.

Is the tolerance there for that? Are they willing to take this risk?

NICHOLAS BURNS, PROFESSOR, HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT: Well, we'll see, Michaela. It's really the key question right now because the entire strategy of the United States and Europe is based on driving up the costs, economic cost, to President Putin for what he's done in Crimea and now what he's doing in eastern Ukraine. The White House is trying to push the Europeans by saying over the last 24 hours that Russian artillery inside Russia is firing on Ukrainian positions inside Ukraine. So cross border attacks by Russia. The U.S. administration is also saying that Russia is planning to deliver even more sophisticated surface-to-air missiles to the Russian separatists in Ukraine. Those are the type of weapons that brought down the Malaysian aircraft. So they are trying -- The Americans are trying to stiffen the spine of the Europeans. Europe has to agree by consensus in the European Union to an additional sanctions. That means every country has to agree, and you are right to say that one of the problems is the Europeans believe the Russians will retaliate. But not moving, not going to additional sanctions, really is going to hit the Europeans, their moral credibility and their political credibility given what's happened.

MICHAELA, PEREIRA, HOST, @ THIS HOUR: And it could be a runaway training. You talk about getting consensus, you look at the ties that each of these European nations have to Russia, economic partners. You look at the Netherlands themselves, they lost over 190 people on this flight alone, yet Russia is their second largest trade partner to Russia. You would think that that nation themselves would be wanting to take a decisive role, an aggressive role, in making sure that this action is stopped.

BURNS: Well, I think that you have, Michaela, is a Europe that's divided. In eastern Europe, In Poland, in Estonia, in Latvia, those countries know the Soviet reality. They were abused by the Soviet Union and they also know the reality of Russia coming back to try to dominate them. They are in favor of tough sanctions. Some of the big industrial economies of western Europe, led by Germany, the Netherlands, and Italy, they have been consistency arguing for a much softer approach, and I think the U.S. would like to say financial sanctions by the European Union, sectoral sanctions, you hit the Russian economy for instance, prohibit any investment in arms sales, the arms industry in Russia. They would prohibit the French from selling those two miss Mistral naval vessels to Russia. And the Europeans, of course, are concern that Russia would retaliate. Well of course, Putin will retaliate but, you know, he is also dependent on Europe. He's dependent on that market for Russian natural gas and he's dependent on capital investment and manufactured imports from Europe. So, yes, the Russians will reciprocate, but it's not in Putin's interest to close down the entire economic relationship with Europe. So Europe needs to have a backbone, Europe needs to move toward a decision. Whether it will is the question of hour.

PEREIRA: And the question of the hour also is will it be long term or will it be a short term fix. Ambassador Nick Burns, always a pleasure to have you with us. Thanks so much for your expertise and adding your voice to the conversation.

BURNS: Thank you very much.

PEREIRA: Ahead @ THIS HOUR, recent deadly plane crashes have caused all sorts of new concerns about air travel. So what changes can be made to make flying safer? We'll explore coming up next @THIS HOUR.

(COMMERCAIL BREAK)

PEREIRA: The wreckage of the Air Algerie flight that crashed yesterday in Africa, included one black box. It has been filed in Mali. None of the 116 people on board survived that crash. French officials believe the plane crashed because of bad weather. They say it is unlikely that it was attacked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANCOISE HOLLANDE, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE(THROUGH TRANSLATOR): An investigation is under way into the cause of this tragedy. One black box has already been found. It is being brought to Gao, and it will be examined as soon as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: We want to bring in David Soucie, he is our safety analyst. We've certainly been seeing a lot of you lately my friend. Three planes crashed in the space of seven days. Look I know, and you have told us about the statistics of air travel, that it is safe. But it's hard to ignore the news. Folks watching at home are saying, gosh this is happening an awful lot.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANNALYST: And it's hard to not think that's exactly how it is right now. But statistically speaking, and I hate to talk statistics, because every accident --

PEREIRA: Sometimes the hard facts help us.

SOUCIE: You know, that's true. But it's tough when people have lost people to try to talk about those terms. But nonetheless, we need to move forward and the best way to do that, I think, is to talk about these statistics. You think about statistically, and there's a great book called Naked Statistics, and in that we talk about how many times things are repeated within a certain area and true, pure random numbers, will show up four and five at a time before you really think there's something else going on. So it's not uncommon to have peaks and valleys.

PEREIRA: Look, I think they have put up some statistics for us here, you have a better chance of being attacked by a shark or something, or drowning. One out of 83,500. That's a pretty low risk. One of the things on site, the French officials on scene who have been able to get to the site, say that the plane was essentially in a disintegrated state. How hard is that going to make the investigation?

SOUCIE: Well it always makes it difficult when there's disbursement of the wreckage. But you can reassemble it. We can figure out what's gone on in there. There's metallurgy that just doesn't hide. You can always figure out what happened to it after the fact. It might take a little bit more time, but you can always get to it. Even in burnt wreckage there is information that you van get from it.

PEREIRA: We've been talking about the fact that there's so much current unrest in the world, especially right now, and to be honest, there's several international hot spots, that international flights are flying across. There's nothing we as travelers, passengers, buying tickets on airlines can do about that, but is there anything that we can do, be aware of, any risk assessment we can do as an individual?

SOUCIE: There actually is. I'll tell you what I do just to make myself more comfortable, I'm just as vulnerable as anyone else in flying, especially internationally. In the United States our system is very well structured and it's continually maintained and routinely maintained, as far as evaluating safety risks and things like that. When we lose a little bit control is when we go overseas, while the United States does do very good analysis of other countries, it can't do one every day. So as quickly as things are changing throughout the world, it's better for me to feel I know what's going on this stuff.

PEREIRA: Quickly tell me what this safe means.

SOUCIE: Search, assess, flight route, and evaluate. Search means, what I do is go on the Internet, see what's going on in that country that I'm heading to. Get familiar with what might be happening currently. Assess, there is a bunch of websites that you can go to, flight aware, flight 44 - or 24, there's other places to go to find out what it is about that particular air carrier, but the air carrier sites, there's some things on the CNN site that will tell you where to go. And then flight, be familiar with your flight, where is it going to and from and you might want to look and see what you are flying over in the meantime and see if those countries --

PEREIRA: And what is happening in that nation at the time.

SOUCIE: The state department has great information about warnings and alerts about those countries. And the last thing is evaluate. After you've educated yourself about all of the risks that you can, do the gut-check. Find out, does this feel right to me? If I'm just doing a vacation, maybe I need to postpone.

PEREIRA: You may not get a refund, but at least you can say I don't want to get on that plane. I'm not taking the trip. David Soucie, we appreciate it. Thanks so much, always.

Coming up, outrage over the shelling of U.N. school used as a shelter in Gaza as Secretary of State John Kerry works to broker a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. We'll take a look at it ahead @ THIS HOUR.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: It is now 18 days into the violence in Gaza.