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At This Hour

Ebola Patient Being Released; Sanford Police Chief Offers Help to Ferguson; U.S. Failed Attempt to Rescue Foley; Past Shows Ferguson Can Heal

Aired August 21, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: That's Dr. Bruce Ribner, the head of the infectious disease unit at Emory University Hospital, taking some questions. You can imagine there are a lot of questions in the room there as Dr. Kent Brantly is being released from the hospital in Atlanta three weeks after entering there, very, very sick. Walking under his own power, it does merit pointing that out.

Want to bring back in our colleague Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who we should mention is on staff there at Emory. And I think it is so surprising that he is able to leave.

I think the two questions are how do we know? How do we know that Dr. Kent Brantly and Dr. Nancy Writebol are not going to be sick or not going to show signs of sickness later on, what is their life going to be like?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, with regard to the first part of that question, it sounds like they made this decision in conjunction with guidance from the centers for disease control and prevention which has had a lot of experience with Ebola in other parts of the world. Again not in the United States.

This has never happened before in the United States. I keep making that point. What you're witnessing here is historic from a medical and scientific standpoint. But the two criteria they use, they want to prove through blood tests, that they -- the patient does not have Ebola anymore in their blood, and they also want to make sure that the patient is doing well overall physically. You know, the Ebola disease, Ebola virus disease can cause significant problems with organs in the body, with kidneys, with liver. When someone has recovered completely in that regard and they have no evidence of virus in the body, they are free to leave. That's essentially what Dr. Ribner said. That's important for the patient, but also important for the general public as well.

Obviously this has sparked some fears and concerns. Some of those legitimate, but when you look at the scientific logical rationale, it makes sense that the public is not at risk. You saw, again, you're seeing these images, he's hugging people, holding hands with his wife amber as he's walking in, it is -- the optics of that very important. You know, when we made this comment often, Michaela, Ebola is not particularly contagious but highly infectious. A small amount of infected fluid from your body to someone else's body could cause an infection. That's the health care team that cared for him, hugging them,

obviously, there's no concern there and I think part of the reason they're doing that is to send a message to the public, if that can happen as you're watching on your TV now, then the general public does not have reason to be concerned. This is much what you're hearing as much as what you're seeing.

PEREIRA: Historic indeed.

Thank you so much.

Dr. Ribner from the Infectious Disease Unit saying neither patient, Nancy Writebol or Dr. Kent Brantly pose a public health threat and Dr. Kent Brantly says I am thrilled to be alive and well. How about that?

Ahead @THISHOUR, another community familiar with racially charged shooting that made national headlines, Sanford, Florida. Trayvon Martin was killed there. Leaders there, leaders of that town, offering advice to help Ferguson, Missouri. We're going to speak with Sanford's police chief, next.

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PEREIRA: The police chief in Sanford, Florida, where Trayvon Martin was shot and killed in 2012 knows what it's like to have your community in the national spotlight following a controversial and racially charged shooting. Sanford did see its share of protests during that time. Not quite like Ferguson, though.

Want to bring in the police chief of Sanford, Florida, Cecil Smith, @THISHOUR.

Thanks so much for joining us.

CECIL SMITH, CHIEF, SANFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT (voice-over): Thank you, Michaela. Thank you for having us.

PEREIRA: I understand that folks from your town have reached out to Ferguson. How are you offering to help?

SMITH: You know, we're here to provide any advice we can, any support we can as far as the police department is concerned and, you know, we're here standing ready to provide it.

PEREIRA: A lot of parallels made between the case of Trayvon Martin and of Michael Brown, two young black men, unarmed. We know that there are big differences. George Zimmerman was mot a member -- not a member of the police department but we know there were protests in Sanford. I'm curious, given the difference in the situations, what was done on the ground to keep the peace? We know the protests did happen, how were you able to keep the peace there?

SMITH: Well, you know, part of it came as just having strong community leaders and that the city sat down and talked to those community leaders, the pastors, NAACP, the Urban League and Department of Justice, and sat down and looked at what the issues and concerns were. And one of the things that was big on our part was that the community leaders and the groups were part of the planning of the marches. Planning in the meetings. Working with the police and commission. Part of the crowd controls. When you think about we had 20,000 people in our town, and there was not one arrest during the course of that entire ordeal.

PEREIRA: What do you think the difference is here, sir? We know the community leaders are coming out, in fact we've seen a measure of calm come over Ferguson in the last couple of nights and maybe we could say the community leaders, the elders, the church, the clergy have had a hand in making that happen?

SMITH: You know what, that's a great thing. Part of also comes into having an open communication. You know, one of the things that I think that's extremely important right now is that the community needs to be educated with regards to how the case is going to go. Talking about the legal system, talking about the legal process. Because a lot of people don't understand that. And once you get an understanding of how the system works, you have a tendency to want to work within the system. So we're seeing that. That's one of the things that we had to do here in Sanford to make it work.

PEREIRA: Chief, you're an African-American police chief. I'm curious what the relations are like in your community? That is something that keeps coming up repeatedly here in Ferguson, when we look at the situation in Ferguson, we hear of mistrust between the community and the police. There are concerns about, you know, excessive force, of them being -- of African-Americans being stopped at a rate unprecedented compared to their white counterparts. Talk to me about your community, just so we can sort of compare and contrast. Is there that kind of distrust between the police and the minority communities, African-American and Brown communities?

SMITH: Let's look at it in a sense of people of color as a whole. Traffic stops, people in the community, working with the police department, one of the things that was big for us was getting out into the community and I have to give captain Johnson a huge applause because he is effectively doing many of the things that we did here in Sanford. We got in the community -- (AUDIO PROBLEM) -- listened to what the concerns were and as a police department went back and checked ourselves to see what our issues were internally. As the community as a whole listening to those concerns and working together to come up with some resolutions and we developed a -- (AUDIO PROBLEM).

PEREIRA: Seems to be having problems with cell phone reception.

That was chief of Sanford, Florida, talking to us the police chief there. Really appreciate him joining us.

Because again, two cities very different situations yet a lot of similarity, parallels are being made between the shooting death of Trayvon Martin and the protests that happened after and the shooting death of Michael Brown and we've seen what's happened in Ferguson, Missouri. Want to say a thank you to the chief. And maybe get him back to talk

about this community policing and the effectiveness of what we're seeing happening and maybe what more needs to be done.

Turn to another story that is causing a lot of people great consternation, a secret mission inside Syria to rescue Americans from ISIS terrorists. That mission failed. It's coming to light after an American brutally beheaded. What went wrong some should the president have done more? We'll discuss that coming up.

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PEREIRA: New details emerging about a failed U.S. mission to rescue American journalist, James Foley, before he was beheaded by ISIS militants. Officials say U.S. Special Operations forces raided an oil refinery in Syria where Foley and other Americans were thought to have been held. They went there apparently the hostages had been moved. We're also learning that ISIS had demanded a ransom of more than $130 million for Foley's freedom. Those demands were made to both his parents and his employer, "Global Post." The terrorist videotaped Foley's execution, posting it online. ISIS claims it executed Foley as a retaliation for U.S. airstrikes on ISIS militants in Iraq and the terrorists brazenly threaten the fate of another American Steven Sotloff and it depends on what President Obama does next.

Let's bring in our CNN national security analyst and former operative, Bob Bear, the man to talk to about all of this mission, difficult, daring, the hostages weren't there. Is that bad intelligence? What went wrong here?

BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Michaela, It's not bad intelligence. These operations are very difficult. The first one I was ever involved in was Desert One, the mission into Iran. I was collecting intelligence op it. Very, very difficult in what we call a denied area. You can't put people on the ground. You have no collateral. When delta and the seals go in they prefer to have eyes on, that means one of their own seeing the hostages before the combat troops arrive. Clearly this is not possible in Syria. It's too dangerous. This mission had to be a flyer. It was very risky. They did the best they could. This is nobody's fault. There's just no way to get good intelligence on a site like this. You can't put people on the ground.

PEREIRA: And it reminds us of the risks that these forces take. You know, you talk to us about other successful ones and we have to remember not all of them are and again, no fault of their own, you can only go on the intelligence you have. They're very risky to begin with. Now we have the life of another American hanging in the balance. The ISIS militants threatening to kill him if the airstrikes don't stop, yet the airstrikes are continuing. Is this the right move? Is it enough, Bob?

BAER: Well, Michaela, I'm going to speculate here but the White House is going to be tempted to bring in the joint operations command for doing aggressive operations inside Syria and Iraq and actually going after the leadership. I would be surprised if there's another hostage rescue attempt. There's so much out there in the public. They're prepared for it. It would probably not be successful. What we could do is go after is' leadership the same way it did in Iraq and Afghanistan. We're going to wait to see, but I do know that there's a buildup of special operations forces in Iraq as we speak. More people are flying in. And I would imagine that's what they're looking at.

PEREIRA: Wise for the U.S. to go it alone or they're going to need an international coalition to aid in this?

BAER: I think we're going to need Britain, the French. There are other foreign hostages. This organization is unacceptable to the Arabs, to us. This is not something we can live with. This is a long-term battle. It's a threat to the entire Middle East. It's a threat to Western Europe. We simply cannot allow the Islamic state to continue to exist. It has to be crushed.

PEREIRA: The Brits are certainly taking this seriously. We know the executer had a British accent and we're hearing that "The Daily Mail" newspaper is reporting that British authorities have sort of called this group of U.K. nationals that have left to join ISIS. They're calling a group of them the Beatles, these men -- we presume they're men -- that are being chosen to guard these western hostages. They call him the Black Beatle and some of their intelligence people are saying they're going to get him. Do you feel confident they can?

BAER: I think eventually. The problem is there are communities in Europe, Muslim community, that are very radicalized. I spent a couple weeks interviewing them. They're the most hostile set of people I've ever talked to. They did not want to talk to an American. They hold us all responsible for, you know, a war on Islam. They were more than willing to fly to the Middle East and join any group. What worries me about the same British subjects are capable of coming to the United States without visas. So they can get on a plane in London, they won't be stopped at immigrations and who knows what they could do from there. It's a serious terrorist threat. And as long as this war goes on against ISIS, the threat will rise.

PEREIRA: Do you think you'll see policy change with that, with visas? Do you think you'll see anything change?

BAER: I would change it. I think everybody coming into the United States, like a lot of countries, we should know exactly who they are. There should be full traces on them. We have to do police checks and the rest of it. And if they come up naked, you know, with Britain, you just don't let them in. It's not very nice, but I don't see a better way to change this. And we also have to look at Mexico. That border is wide open. And I'm told by sources in Washington, they're really afraid that ISIS members, without British passports, are coming across that border, coming in. What they're capable of doing, I don't know. But it is a concern of Washington.

PEREIRA: To be sure.

Bob Baer, security analyst for us here at CNN, thank you so much.

We should also point out for more information about the American killed by is, CNN.com. Stick around because CNN obviously will be covering this. At 1:00 p.m. eastern, we'll hear from the "Global Post" CEO Phillip Balboni at 1:00 p.m.

We'll take a short break. But we'll look at the Michael Brown shooting and the community response. What Ferguson, Missouri, can do now to heal. We'll turn to two people part of another city who had their share of tension. We'll find out what they did. Maybe there can be some lessons learned.

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PEREIRA: Protests, gunshots, tear gas, distrust. You may think that we're talking about the situation in Ferguson, but we're actually talking about 2001 in Cincinnati after the killing of 19-year-old Timothy Thomas by a police officer. It took time and it took effort. The time, it took almost 12 years, 13 years. But that community healed. And those who helped in the healing process say that healing can happen in Ferguson, too.

We want to turn straight now to Pastor Damon Lynch; and community advocate, Iris Roley. They led the change for the community that needed to heal.

Thank you for joining me.

Pastor, I'll start with you. Why don't you tell us quickly about the situation and how the tide turned there in Cincinnati?

DAMON LYNCH III, PASTOR, SENIOR NEW PROSPECT BAPTIST CHURCH: Cincinnati had a history of police brutality. We had 15 black men killed from 1995 to 2001 with Timothy Thomas being the 15th. Before Timothy Thomas, we had filed a class action lawsuit against the city of Cincinnati for racial profiling and racially bias policing. Instead of having litigation, though, we decided to bring everybody to the table including the police and hammer out an agreement that brought justice and that also brought at the end better police community relations. So that was our goal. After everything, no justice, no peace calls, after that happens, how do we move forward as a community where we trust the cops and the cops work with us and are held accountable. And we think we achieved that through our collaborative agreement with the Department of Justice and all parties being involved.

PEREIRA: Iris, it sounds as though the parallels are pretty gigantic. Lack of transparency, the way the information was coming out, the response to the protests. You look at this, it's very similar. It sounds like, to what was going on in Cincinnati, as to what's going on in Ferguson. Talk about this community policing aspect. We've talked about the response of having Captain Ron Johnson brought in and the community policing that he's doing. This is the right move. Is this a step in the right direction, in your opinion?

IRIS ROLEY, COMMUNITY ADVOCATE: Michaela, yes. Let me say this first off, community oriented policing isn't putting up a basketball hoop or just merely walking through the community. It is actually working with the community to design what problems and social conflicts are happening in communities. It's engaging the community. It's allowing the community to be involved and changes of policies and procedures. It's actually building that trust. You just don't get it overnight. You just don't get it by a basketball hoop. It is similar in many ways, Michaela. But what we did and what we are still doing to this day to build on what we have is sitting at the table and working and hammering the issues out where African-Americans still have issues, but we're at the table. So it is very similar to what happened here in Cincinnati, Ohio.

PEREIRA: But it's doing the work once the cameras go away because at that point, that's going to happen in Ferguson, too, right? The crowds, the cameras, the press will all go away. And that's when the real work starts.

LYNCH: Well, what I think is important, this young lady sitting next to me, Iris Roley, we call her the queen of the collaborative agreement. For the last 12 years, she's been sitting at the table monthly and actually the table was set by the community. When we brought this together, it was the fop, the police union, the city. We were the Cincinnati Black United Front. And the ACLU. And so everybody was at the table. 3500 people in Cincinnati took part in this process, to bring justice, as they are calling for in Ferguson. The last three officers who killed unarmed black men were indicted. They were charged and indicted. They were found not guilty. And so if justice means that they have to go to jail, that didn't happen here. But justice for us was let's, after that happen, let's work together because at the end of the day, we need to be able to sit down together as a community and have mutual accountability and trust. We just left Ferguson. We spent -- she's the queen of collaboration.

PEREIRA: The queen of collaboration because it seems to me people need to be seen and heard. And people need to know that it's going to take a concerted effort by a team. You have to have community partners. You have to have everybody at the table. And then you have to listen.

LYNCH: Right.

PEREIRA: I can't thank you both enough for coming on to leave our show with this final note of hope because I think that's what we need right here not only on CNN, especially in the news today, but also in Ferguson. So maybe there can be some healing beginning there. Maybe the two of you need to take a trip to Ferguson.

FOLEY: Michaela, but healing only starts with the justice part, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Thank you so much. Hopefully, we can continue the conversation with you both. Iris, Pastor, thank you so much for joining me @THISHOUR.

That's it for me @THISHOUR. I'm Michaela Pereira. John Berman is on vacation. He'll be back very soon. Thanks for watching.

"LEGAL VIEW " with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.