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At This Hour

Police Raids in Europe Target 20 Terror Cells; Belgium Puts 150 Troops on Standby; Are Terror Cells Waking Up?; Obama and Cameron to Speak in Next Hour; Saudi Arabia's Hypocrisy on Free Speech

Aired January 16, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: Good morning to you. I'm Michaela Pereira in New York.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: And I'm John Berman live in Paris.

We have breaking news. New terror threats spreading across Europe; authorities now scrambling to identify jihadists before they strike again. An intelligence source tells CNN that the threat appears to involve up to 20 cells with as many as 180 people ready to launch attacks. France, Germany, Belgium and also the Netherlands. We're told that the Belgian threat was imminent. The terror cell there was said to be on the brink of unleashing some kind of major attack on police.

But police swooped in. They launched a dozen raids. They killed two suspected terrorists, wounded a third, and arrested dozens -- or at least a dozen others.

German authorities say they arrested two men in Berlin on suspicion of links to ISIS, and here in France, police arrested 12 people overnight. These 12 individuals are believed to have offered some kind of logistical support to Amedy Coulibaly, the man who attacked that kosher market, leaving 12 French Jews dead.

Secretary of State John Kerry laid wreaths today at the sites of the attacks here in Paris. He was accompanied by French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius. They went first to that kosher market where Coulibaly killed four people. Then they came here where I'm standing right now outside the headquarters of "Charlie Hebdo," the magazine where the Kouachi brothers killed 12 people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: On the day of the living nightmare that began at "Charlie Hebdo," I had a chance to share a few thoughts with you from back home in Washington. And today I just -- I really wanted to come here and share a hug.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The secretary of state said he wanted to come and share a hug. He also shared some James Taylor music. James Taylor played "You've Got a Friend" for people of France The secretary's hug comes as this entire continent, really, is on high alert right now with Belgium perhaps facing the most immediate danger, those raids overnight killing two suspected terrorists.

Our senior international correspondent Frederik Pleitgen is in Brussels. Fred, what can you tell us?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The police here in this country, John, absolutely feel its under threat. I'm standing in front of the national police headquarters here in Brussels.

But, as you said, it was law enforcement authorities that struck first, that launched a dozen raids in this country. The most violent was the one you were talking about in Verviers, which is about 40 miles outside of the capital of Brussels where those two alleged jihadists were killed.

Now the interesting thing is that today the public prosecutor came out and he said that most of the people behind this terror cell are apparently people who are coming back from Syria, who were fighting in Syria.

The police have confiscated AK-47s. They've confiscated handguns. They've confiscated communication tools. And the most important thing is they confiscated police uniforms. And that was one of the reasons why the police here say they are sure that the terrorists wanted to target police officers. They say the targets were police officers both in the streets as well as inside police departments.

So big threat for the police and this country is reacting. Officers have been told not to walk alone. They've been told to wear bulletproof vests at all times, and they've been told to take guns home with them, even when they are off duty. And another thing that the country is doing is that for one of the first times, really, in its history, it's deploying its military inside the country

That's something that usually never happens in Belgium. Several hundred troops have been called on to be on standby. The first 30 are going to be deployed tomorrow in the town of Antwerp where there is a large Jewish quarter, and that's exactly where these troops are going to be deployed.

Of course, like in Paris, the Jewish community here is also one that's of great concern because the authorities here believe they might be a prime target, of course, after Amedy Coulibaly held up that kosher grocery store there in Paris. That certainly is a prime concern of authorities here as well, John.

BERMAN: Belgian troops being deployed inside Belgium giving you the real sense the reality here is there is battle going on inside the borders of these European nations.

And, of course, Fred, you were with me here in Paris where they are still mourning the loss of those in the pair of attacks here. Any connection between what's going on in Belgium right now and what happened in France? PLEITGEN: At this point in time, the authorities here in Belgium say

there is no connection to what happened in Paris, to the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks or to the attack on that kosher grocery store.

However, there does appear to be one link in that that arms dealer that Amedy Coulibaly apparently contacted here near Brussels also in (inaudible) where he tried to get ammo for one of his weapons, that person is believed to have also had contact with this jihadist terror cell.

That doesn't mean that there was any sort of connection between the plots, and certainly at this point in time the prosecutors here are saying that they don't believe there's any connection whatsoever. However, it is something where of course there is great concern also by the fact that weapons appear to be fairly easily accessible here in Belgium not just there from that person but in some other places as well, John.

BERMAN: Yeah. One security expert here in France told me that Belgium is a weapons hub. So many of the arms that are being used perhaps in this country in France and being used all over right now, all over western Europe, ultimately pass through Belgium.

Our Frederik Pleitgen in Brussels, thank you so much.

Now, the terrorists suspected of being involved in those cells in Belgium, many of them fought in Syria, some alongside ISIS and the other terror groups there. There's a separate issue connecting the attacks in France. One of the lingering important questions here in Paris is how deep is the Yemen connection, specifically al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula?

It has claimed responsibility for the attack that took place behind me at the offices of "Charlie Hebdo," but the Kouachi brothers, Said and Cherif Kouachi, they were there a few years ago. At least one of them is said to have met with Anwar al-Awlaki, but how deep is that correction, how significant the involvement of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula?

Our Nick Paton Walsh Robertson is in Yemen, one of the only Western journalists there, and he's been looking at that angle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What is key is for French investigators to swiftly establish the links in reality between here, Yemen, and those attacks in France.

Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula's statement suggests that a U.S. citizen killed in 2011 by the U.S. drone strike, Anwar al-Awlaki, was in fact operationally running that attack, what they called the "blessed battle of Paris," in their own sick terminology.

What is vital for French investigators to work out if after that 2011 death there were continued conversations or resources passed from here, Yemen, to the Kouachi brothers. We know that potentially one of them came here as early as 2009 and maybe Cherif, potentially traveling under his brother, older brother, Said's passport, came here in 2011 and may have returned to France with tens of thousands of dollars.

That's vital information because there are these other cells around Europe. Do they have links to the al Qaeda hotbed here of Yemen, very keen to put its branding on what it calls, I say, the "blessed battle of Paris," troublingly, and of course now a quiet day after Friday prayer here in the capital, Sanaa.

But much anger on the streets at the image of the prophet Mohammed, offensive to so many Muslims being published again in the "Charlie Hebdo" satirical magazine in its latest issue, the government angry at what it considers Yemen being scapegoated but in truth this is a failed or failing state.

A lot of questions still to be answered by Yemen -- when did the Kouachi brothers come here? Where did they train? Who did they get resources from? Did they get commands from Yemen to launch their attacks? A lot of answers still to come from here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Nick Paton Walsh in Yemen right now, a country very much in turmoil, where there are organizations believed now to be fomenting terror, here where I'm standing in western Europe.

Let's go back to Michaela in New York.

PEREIRA: All right, John, we'll be back to you in a moment.

The president is, meanwhile, welcoming British prime minister David Cameron to the White House @THISHOUR for bilateral meetings. In about an hour's time, the two are going to hold a joint news conference.

They're expected to address how the U.S. and Great Britain are dealing with the terror that's spreading in continental Europe. With the many terror cells being uncovered, the two leaders certainly have a lot to talk about and many questions to answer. Prime Minister Cameron did say expect action.

You'll see that White House news conference right here on CNN, next hour.

And @THISHOUR, inside the terror raids in Europe, we're going to take you inside what's happening across the continent and the chatter that has authorities concerned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: John Berman, live in Paris right now, standing outside the offices of "Charlie Hebdo," one of the places that was hit by a terror attack in France more than one week ago.

In Belgium, next door, that country is on high alert after two suspected Islamic militants were killed and a dozen others arrested. They had allegedly planned to kill police officers in public places all over Belgium, several believed to have fought in Syria and returned to Belgium.

Authorities recovered weapons. They recovered explosives, radios, cell phones, a knife, and most chillingly, fake police uniforms during these raids.

I want to bring in CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank. Paul also wrote "Agent Storm" about the spy inside Al Qaeda in Yemen who led the CIA to terrorist cleric Anwar al-Awlaki.

And, Paul, you have described this as a watershed moment in terror, ISIS and other groups bringing fighters to Syria to fight there and then sending them back here to Europe to commit acts of terror.

What at this point are you hearing about the plans?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: That's absolutely right, John. In recent weeks, European intelligence services, Western intelligence, have detected a change from ISIS, a switch from ISIS towards directing all these Europeans who are present in Syria and Iraq -- and about a thousand Europeans believed to be a part of ISIS in Syria and Iraq -- directing them to return to Europe to launch attacks.

ISIS had not been doing that up till this point. There had not been plots directly linked to the ISIS leadership, but they suspect that in this Belgian terrorist plot, this major imminent plot, that they got marching orders from ISIS, that there was direction here.

And that's obviously a game changer because this is a group with very significant cash resources, all of these European fighters, these training camps, a significant safe haven in both Syria and Iraq, and they're going to have that safe haven for some time to come even under the best-case scenarios.

Separately there is also concern that there are other groups of young men who have returned in other parts of Europe who could also potentially pose a threat because of this pivoting from ISIS, and they're scrambling to understand this right now, European intelligence agencies.

What plans if any are these other groups of young men in other European countries plotting? Overall, it's believed more than 500 people have come back from Syria and Iraq after having fought with jihadist groups there, and they're now back in Europe. So the scale of this problem is unprecedented, John.

BERMAN: Why now, Paul? If this is, as you say, something different for ISIS, why have they decided to do this now?

You say as many as 500 people have returned from that region, could be spread out all across Europe right now. What countries are particularly vulnerable?

CRUICKSHANK: The countries that appear to be particularly vulnerable are the ones involved in air strikes in Iraq.

No European country is involved in air strikes in Syria. They are all involved in European air strikes in Iraq, and the countries that are involved include the United Kingdom, France, Holland, Denmark, and indeed Belgium. And Belgium is flying combat sorties over Iraq right now.

So it appears that those are the countries that are being singled out by ISIS for retaliation, John.

BERMAN: Is there believed to be communication among the groups? There were 12 separate raids in Belgium. Are these groups believed to be connected?

There was Amedy Coulibaly who pledged support here in France to ISIS. Is he believed to be connected to some broader network?

In other words, is there direct control, direct central control, I suppose, from Syria and Iraq?

CRUICKSHANK: I don't think it's a question of direct central control. I mean, what they've got with these Europeans are fighters in Syria and Iraq who are killing people every day. So all they kind of need to tell these people is go back and do what you're doing here over there. Do what you're experienced in doing. You know how to handle munitions, Kalashnikovs, explosives -- go and do that back in Europe.

So they don't have to have this kind of command and control we've seen with some other al Qaeda plots. It's just a message -- go back and do this. And unfortunately these are trained killers coming back to the west. And there's concern, John, in the United States as well that some of these Europeans could get on flights to the United States. Very few Americans have joined ISIS, about a dozen. Around 1,000 Europeans believed to be with this group. So the biggest threat to the United States right now are these Europeans who could come over here on planes, potentially, if they're not on the watch list, John.

BERMAN: Certainly a great detail of concern here in Europe about that right now. Paul Cruickshank, thanks so much for your analysis and your reporting on this. Many, many developments happening constantly on this front.

All right. Let's go back to Michaela in New York.

PEREIRA: All right, and as you said, our coverage continues with these breaking developments from Europe on the growing terror threat. But, first, Saudi Arabia. Friend or foe? What role exactly does oil rich kingdom and American ally have in the world of jihad and radical Islam? "The New York Times'" Nicholas Kristof joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: All right, getting some new pictures right into CNN right now I want to show you at the White House. President Obama greeting Prime Minister of Britain David Cameron at the White House. The two there are holding a joint news conference next hour. But let's listen to what conversation they're having right now.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Like I said, I was just impressed you were so awake.

DAVID CAMERAON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Liz is keeping me fit and healthy.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: All right, the two appear to be in good form and good spirits. I think I heard Prime Minister Cameron say we covered a lot of ground. They certainly have a lot of ground to cover, as you can imagine, with these new threats growing across Europe and around the world. They're going to hold this press conference at about -- shortly after the 12:00 hour Eastern here on CNN. And you can watch that. We'll bring those comments to you live from the two leaders here.

All right, let's continue our discussion now of these new terror threats across Europe. Joining me now, Nicholas Kristof, "New York Times" Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist. A real pleasure to have you joing us @THISHOUR.

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, NEW YORK TIMES OP-ED COLUMNIST: It's good to be with you.

PERIERA: I think obviously right now there's so many of us that are struggling to understand. And we put this question to our terror expert a moment ago. Why now we are seeing this increased threat? Not just the threat -- cells disrupted, plots disrupted in Western Europe. What is your sense of that?

KRISTOF: Well, I mean, I think that of course this has been going on in lots of places around the world for a long time. And you look at Boko Haram, which has been maybe the most lethal example of this and they've been underway for a long time. They've killed more people last year in Nigeria, in West Africa, than Ebola did.

Now, the timing of the particular Paris attacks was based on them setting it up and then there are always sort of follow-ons both ways. So I don't have any great insight into the particular nature of the Paris attacks. But the larger -- the larger challenge has been around with us for a long time and will continue to be.

PEREIRA: And you make a good point of pointing out what's going on in Boko Haram. And I know we've committed to keeping -- shining a light on such horrific darkness there, and as you also are doing at "The New York Times".

I want to talk about a situation in Saudi Arabia -- and let me just update folks who may not know. You've written quite an article about it. A Saudi Arabian blogger and a bit of a double -- well, quite a double standard in the kingdom -- Raif Badawi is his name, sentenced last year to ten years in prison and 1,000 lashes, doled out 50 lashes at a time every Friday for some five months, for promoting a liberal discussion on religion. His first flogging last week; his second today was apparently postponed on medical grounds.

And I wanted you to react to that, the news we got here at CNN about the postponement. Does this give you a sense that perhaps they're reconsidering their position? Is there a precedent for this? Or you think that this horrific punishment's just going to pick up next week as usual?

KRISTOF: Boy, I would sure like to believe that this is a hopeful sign and that Saudis have come to their senses and will find some face-saving way to back away from this, maybe medical grounds. But people haven't made a lot of money betting on reasonableness in Saudi Arabia and I'm not sure I'd bet on that.

You know, it's just so frustrating because we -- precisely -- if there's anything we've learned from the rise of extremist Islam is that we need moderate Muslim voices to counter it and we need to have a discussion within Islam. And that is exactly what Badawi is trying to do with this blog, to jump-start this discussion. And then how does our ally Saudi Arabia respond? With a sentence of 1,000 lashes, but punishing his lawyer as well, stifling precisely the discussion that is necessary to have.

PEREIRA: And further to that point, and you really pointed this out, and others have as well -- the hypocrisy of the Saudi ambassador marching alongside world leaders in that really moving and powerful rally that was held, the unity rally that was held in Paris essentially celebrating free speech. There is such a double standard and hypocrisy here that is almost too much to bear.

KRISTOF: Yes, Saudi Arabia is maybe uniquely equipped to play a role in promoting reform and tolerance within the Islamic world, given its resources, given the fact that it's the seat of Mecca. And indeed King Abdulaziz, the founder of modern Saudi Arabia, did actually play some such role when traditionalists opposed cars, opposed the telegraph, opposed radio. He showed that the Koran could be read over the radio and maybe modernization wasn't such an awful thing.

But today Saudi Arabia's rulers have essentially kowtowed to the hardliners, to the Wahhabism. And Saudi Arabia is essentially legitimizing intolerance and extremism throughout the Islamic world as well as financing -- Wahhabi madrassas, again, throughout the Islamic world. And it's doubly frustrating when this is our ally that is doing this. And the symbolism of somebody marching in a parade doesn't counter the daily actions that actually increase the peril, not just to us but to Nigerians, for example, or to Malians in West Africa.

PEREIRA: Well, I'm with you, Nicholas Kristof. I'm holding out hope. I imagine it is slim that perhaps they will come to their senses and maybe there will be some sort of conditional release of this young man, because it is really -- it's impossible to think that this man who stands for such peace and activism is being punished in this fashion.

Thank you for joining us. I hope we get to talk to you again, OK?

KRISTOF: My pleasure. Thank you.

PEREIRA: As I mentioned, in less than an hour, President Obama and British Prime Minister David Cameron are holding a joint news conference talking about the threat of terror cells that are spreading across Europe and frankly around the globe. Prime Minister Cameron has promised an important announcement. We'll give you a bit of a preview next @THISHOUR.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)