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At This Hour

Gunmen Raid Tunisian Parliament and Museum; Death Threats in Tokyo; U.S. Vet in Court for Trying to Join ISIS. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired March 18, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[11:00:17] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman. We do have breaking news right now.

A possible terror attack in the North African nation of Tunisia. Gunmen raiding a popular museum in the capital city of Tunis; this is next to the parliament building where lawmakers had been meeting. Now, these attackers took foreign tourists as hostages.

BOLDUAN: Government officials have just told CNN that Tunisian security forces have killed two attackers at the museum. This minister who confirmed this to CNN also says that the attackers themselves have killed ten people, most of them tourists, and one Tunisian security officer. More are believed to be injured in this attack. Reuters is reporting that police have rescued the remaining hostages. No word on exactly how many hostages that is.

Earlier we saw this dramatic video of people being hustled to safety as police forces stood guard. Guns pointed. You can see frantic looks on their faces, to be sure.

Atika Shubert has been covering this story as it's been breaking. She's with us out of London. What more are you hearing right now, Atika?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We've actually just had a chance to speak to the Minister for Parliamentary Relations, and he told us the operation is not over. He did confirm that two gunmen have been killed, but that security are still in the area sweeping through to find out if anybody else was involved in the attack.

We also understand from him that a total of ten people were killed, many of them foreign tourists. We're still trying to confirm nationalities killed in that attack. But also, as you point out, a Tunisian security officer. Another local Tunisian is also believed to have been killed.

Now we've been calling around to the foreign ministries of a number of countries. We know that Italy has said a number of Italian tourists have been wounded in the attack. They have not confirmed whether any of their nationals have been killed. France says they believe there may have been a French national killed. They are still trying to confirm. Spain, the U.K., and Germany also frantically trying to confirm whether any of their nationals were killed or wounded in this attack. Kate?

BERMAN: Atika, any claim yet of responsibility? There are two attackers dead now according to this Tunisian government official. Any still on the loose they believe? And, again, any idea who is doing this?

SHUBERT: We know that at least two attackers have been killed. There is the possibility of more gunmen, but security officials are still sweeping the area to try to confirm that.

What we know, according to a spokesperson for the Interior Ministry is he described the attackers as, quote, "Islamists". Now, no group has taken responsibility for the attack, but there is a group in Tunisia known as Ansar al-Sharia. They have grown exponentially over the years and they are associated with both al Qaeda in the Islamic Magreb, butalso with militant groups in next door Libya and fighters for ISIS in Syria and Iraq.

And in fact it's important to note that Tunisia is the country that contributes the most foreign fighters to groups like ISIS in Syria. More than 3,000 jihadi fighters traveled from Tunisia there, and hundreds returned over the years. So this has been a particular concern for security officials. And in fact Tunisian security say they have thwarted a number of attacks recently, but clearly they have not been able to prevent the attack that happened today. John.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and it's not over. That's one of the most important thing you've gotten from that minister in Tunisia for us right now.

Atika, you get back to reporting. We'll get back to you shortly. In the meantime, we have joining us on the phone is a member of the Tunisian parliament. Sabrine Gobatini. Sabrine, thank you very much for joining us. You were in parliament. That is connected to this museum. Tell us what happened today.

SABRINE GOUBATINI, MEMBER OF TUNISIAN PARLIAMENT (via telephone): OK. So I have just to rectify something, is that the museum is inside parliament. So the main entrance of parliament is the same as the museum. And what I heard when I was there -- so we were in meetings of the committee, and we were just having regular work. We were doing our regular work.

We had several committees who were in meetings with ministries, and we just heard gunshots. And then people, workers from the administration of the assembly told us -- came to the committees and told us that we had to stop our work because the parliament was attacked from its main entrance.

[11:04:57] And then the information they had is that the tourists went first to the main entrance of parliament building and then when there were some gun fight between them and between the police officers who were in the entrance, they came back, they went back to the museum. And at the entrance to the museum, they shot a bus of tourists and then they entered into the museum and took in hostages. All of the tourists, and also there were Tunisian tourists who were there inside, and foreign tourists. We don't have the nationalities yet.

And right now the information they had is that, first of all, I had information saying that the operation was over and that two terrorists have been killed. One police officer has been killed. One officer from the anti-terrorist team was killed also. A Tunisian woman, a worker in the museum, was killed. And 15 foreign tourists. Right now the additional information that they have is that, fortunately, the operation is over. And maybe the member of the terrorists is not defined yet. So we are -- at the beginning we thought there were only two or three people. Right now, we have three terrorists who have been killed and we still don't know the number of the total -- the total number of terrorists.

BERMAN: Sabrine, we just heard from a government official via Atika Shubert, that they say the operation is still ongoing, looking for the possibility of other shooters, other attackers still there in the building.

No claim of responsibility yet. Obviously, you know the terror concerns that exist in your country, the activity of groups like Ansar al-Sharia right now. Do you have any suspicions as to who is behind this attack?

GOUBATINI: Of course we have suspicions. Of course. I am from the ruling party right now. We just had elections. And during the past years, we had too many attacks from Ansar al-Sharia, from ISIS, but those attacks were located in the Chaambi, which is a mountain in the south of Tunisia.

Right now, it's the second tourist attack in the capital, in Tunis. A few months ago, during the electoral campaign, we had an attack in the region very close to the capital and also very close to the parliament, just a few kilometers from there. And tourists were killed.

Right now, what we know is that we had too many threats from these groups who claim themselves as Islamist jihadists, and for sure the attack is coming from there. The new government is working on the fight against terrorism. And during the past weeks, we -- the Minister of Interior find out too many places who were hiding terrorists and weapons, bombs, and many other dangerous items. So maybe it's because of our action against terrorism as a ruling party and as government in -- during the past two years.

During the past three years, also, we had more than 80 soldiers and police officers who have been killed during terrorist attacks conducted by Ansar al-Sharia and by Islamist jihadists. So it's not weird. We are expecting these kind of attacks, but we did not expect them in the parliament.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely not. No one should have to expect that in your parliament. We're continuing, as this develops, Sabrine, to get some conflicting

reports. So some of the latest that we have is that the Premier is now saying that 19 people are dead. I think that's also something that you were hearing as well. Also some getting information, as we'd said, some -- one official saying that the situation is not over. However, they're also saying a bulletin that the hostage siege is over.

It does make me wonder, from your perspective, while of course this is all happening in realtime, do you get the sense that the situation is calming at all or is it still happening?

GOUBATINI: Well, the information that I have is that we have been evacuated just a few minutes after the first attack, so the attack in front of the main entrance to parliament. And I left parliament just 30 minutes, something like that, after the attack. The information they have is that we -- normally all of the hostages are free right now.

[11:10:03] This is the information. I don't have the number, exact number. We have approximate numbers. Some sources that they are about 100 to 200 people and we -- normally they are all free. The other information that they have is that there are ministers and MPs inside the parliament that are still stuck inside the buildings. So this is the information they have for the moment concerning the exact numbers.

BERMAN: Sabrine Goubatini, thank you so much. We are glad that you are safe. We appreciate you being on with us.

Just one more piece of information we just got from the U.S. embassy in Tunisia right now. The embassy says it wishes to alert U.S. citizens to an ongoing security situation around the Bardo Museum in downtown Tunis. The embassy urges U.S. citizens to avoid the museum and surrounding vicinity, which includes the parliament. It goes on to say it continues to warn people about travel inside Tunis anyway.

BOLDUAN: Obviously. That's for sure, especially at this moment.

We're going to continue following this breaking news throughout the morning for you, because it's clearly developing.

Also following other breaking news. AT THIS HOUR, Tokyo police are investigating death threats made against U.S. Ambassador to Japan Caroline Kennedy. That's according to Japanese media. The threats are said to have been phoned in by an English-speaking man to the U.S. embassy in Tokyo last month.

BERMAN: This news comes after First Lady Michelle Obama arrived in Japan for a three-day visit.

Want to bring in CNN's Michelle Kosinski at the White House. Good morning, Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi John, right. And the First Lady is expected to meet Ambassador Kennedy later on during her trip. So of course the question is immediately security. How credible do these threats seem? How seriously is the U.S. taking them? How does this affect the First Lady's trip?

But U.S. officials are saying very little. I mean, all of these details that we've read are coming from reports leaked out of the investigation in the Asian press. The White House isn't commenting on them. The National Security Council, the embassy in Tokyo, isn't commenting.

In fact, we did just get a statement from the State Department, but they're not confirming threats. What they said is that the safety of U.S. diplomats is a top priority. That they would take any steps necessary to protect our people overseas. And that the U.S. is working with authorities in Tokyo to make sure that the necessary measures are in place. So again, not even confirming the threats, let alone giving anymore detail about them.

What we do know, though, is there's not expected to be any disruption to the First Lady's trip while she's there. That doesn't necessarily shed any light on whether these threats seem credible. But I think it's also important to know that there were multiple threats against the life of the ambassador. But they all happened last month. Apparently, all of these phone calls, or multiple threats within the phone call, were made in February.

BERMAN: All right. Michelle Kosinski for us. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. We'll keep our eye on that one too.

Happening now, a U.S. Air Force veteran who allegedly tried to join ISIS is being arraigned in a Brooklyn court. Tairod Nathan Webster Pugh traveled from Egypt to Turkey. He allegedly intended to try to get to Syria.

BOLDUAN: Authorities deported, though, him back to the United States where he was eventually arrested in New Jersey. And then there's all of the information that came out in a lot of prosecutor's documents. A search of his laptop, according to prosecutors, revealed recent Internet searches for borders controlled by ISIS, a chart of crossing points between Turkey and Syria.

They also found a letter written to a woman believed to be his wife. The letter saying this, in part, "I'm a mujahideen. I am sword against the oppressor and a shield for the oppressed. I'll used the talents and skills given to me by Allah to establish and defend the Islamic states."

For this, let's get more on this from CNN's justice correspondent Pamela Brown. So Pamela, what else are we learning about this man?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, this case is unique in a lot of different ways compared to other ISIS material support cases we'd seen. Officials say that this man, the 47-year- old Tairod Pugh, had been radicalized over the last 14 years. In fact, they say that in the late 1990s he converted to Islam and then became increasingly radicalized. In 2001, he worked for American Airlines as a mechanic, working on plane engines. And a co-worker of his went to the FBI, according to the complaint, and said that he was espousing anti-American views and he sympathized with Osama bin Laden, so he was put on the FBI's radar in 2001.

In 2002, the FBI says that it interviewed one of his associates that said he wanted to go to Chechnya to commit jihad. So the criminal complaint says that he's had a long history of wanting to commit jihad and sympathizing with terrorist groups.

What's interesting to note here is that, seven years later, he passed a security clearance to become an Army contractor in Iraq.

[11:15:04] And I was speaking to a former colonel with the Air Force and he said that this is someone given his alleged ideology and views that could have caused a lot of damage having the access that he did as an army contractor in Iraq, to soldiers, to military planes. I've been reaching out to officials to try to get to the bottom of whether or not the fact that the FBI was aware of him in 2001, and clearly they didn't have a case, but whether that would have been flagged in a background check. I'm told that there should have been some indication that he was on the FBI's radar back then.

Speaking to officials, they are concerned by that and the fact the company that would have done his background check is no longer in business and the Department of Justice is investigating that company for not doing a thorough enough job with background checks during the time that Pugh would have become an army contractor. John and Kate?

BOLDUAN: Pamela Brown. Pamela, thank you so much. A lot to follow in that case. We'll talk about that later in the hour.

BERMAN: We have some new developments on our breaking story out of Tunisia. A raid on the museum there. The main museum, the Bardo Museum in the Parliament. The Prime Minister of Tunisia now tells us 17 tourists were killed in this attack. 17 tourists killed. The prime minister also tells us that two of the attackers have been killed but importantly, three are still at large. Three attackers still at large from this raid on the Parliament building and the museum in the Tunisian capital of Tunis. We'll keep our eye on this situation. Obviously, extremely fluid as three attackers are still at large. We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:20:02] BOLDUAN: We're continuing to follow breaking news for you AT THIS HOUR to give you an update on the ongoing situation in Tunisia at the Tunisian Parliament and the museum inside. The latest numbers that we have coming from the Tunisian government is that 17 tourists have been killed in an attack on the Bardo Museum, that's the name of it, in the capital of Tunisia in Tunis. Important to note on top of that, they say two attackers have been killed. However, three attackers, they believe, are still at large. The situation is fluid. The numbers that we've been told have changed in just the last couple of minutes. But importantly, clearly, the situation is ongoing in Tunisia in the Parliament building around the capital of Tunis at this moment. BERMAN: As of now there's no claim of responsibility for this attack.

There's no shortage of possibilities there when we're talking about Tunisia.

I want to bring in CNN terror analyst Paul Cruickshank. Paul, you said something that was fascinating. You said this could be a coming out party for ISIS in Tunisia.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERROR ANALYST: Yes, John. Just in the last few minutes, a group in Tunisia, Jund al-Khalifa, have said that a pledge to ISIS is imminent. It's possible this is some kind of coming out party by a group which is going to declare its affiliation to ISIS in the coming hours. We don't know that yet, but that's a strong possibility. There are about 3,000 Tunisians that have gone to fight in Syria and Iraq. Many of them with ISIS. About 500 have returned, many of them with a lot of terrorism skills. A lot of concern about radicalism inside Tunisia. There is also a group, Ansar al-Sharia --

BOLDUAN: That's the one that most of our viewers would be familiar with.

CRUICKSHANK: -- (inaudible) with sort of loose affiliations with that group. About 40,000 followers in Tunisia. They tried to storm the U.S. Embassy in Tunis a couple of years ago. There are a lot of concern about militancy inside Tunisia. Also, Tunisians believed to be training in Libya in training camps with ISIS in the east of Libya. Jihadis already on the march and it's right next door to Tunisia.

BOLDUAN: What you're saying right now, when you give those numbers, 3,000 Tunisians have gone to fight with ISIS, foreign fighters have left the country to fight and may be coming back in. That seems to stand in stark contrast with what you see in terms of Tunisia, the government. What they're trying to do. They're trying to battle extremism. They have had their first free election just in November, I believe. So what is this contrast that we're seeing?

CRUICKSHANK: That's exactly right. I mean, you know, Tunisia has been the one success story of the Arab Spring so far. They freely elected a secular leading president and secular leading parliament. There is a moderate Islamist opposition which appear to be committed to Democratic principles. What they've not yet got right in Tunisia are the socioeconomics. It's still a very dire socioeconomic situation. Not a lot of young people with jobs. That has created frustration. For a significant number of youngsters, they found the answers in radical Islam and for those people, they think it's their religious duty to go and support ISIS and support the caliphate and that's why you have had so many young men and also young women traveling from Tunisia all the way to (inaudible), but also countries like Libya joining up with jihadi groups.

BERMAN: Let's remind people of what's going on right now. 17 tourists killed -- at least 17 at this point because the number keeps changing -- in a raid on the Parliament building in the Tunisian capital of Tunis. Also, a museum which is attached to that building. Two of the attackers have been killed. Three at this point are still at large. Paul, you say that this is really the most significant attack on tourists that we've seen in years.

CRUICKSHANK: This is the most significant terrorist attack on tourists in the Arab world since that horrible massacre in Luxor, Egypt, in 1997 where 56 tourists lost their life. This is a very significant terrorist attack. We're hearing up to 17 tourists, presumably some of them westerners, internationals, who have been killed in this museum and around this museum.

BERMAN: And people know tourists go to Tunis. Attackers -- These terrorists would know that tourists go there. There was a cruise ship that docked today with some 3,000 tourists.

BOLDUAN: There is a lot of people on the cruise ship. And when you get to Tunis, journalists on the ground say this is where the tourists go. This is a very popular place to go, to this museum, to this area of Parliament. You kind of put those two things together. You can see what the target could possibly have been.

CRUICKSHANK: Absolutely. Tunisia has got some of the best beaches in the Mediterranean. A lot of Europeans go there on vacation. In fact, in October 2013, there was an attempted suicide bombing outside a beach hotel in a resort in Tunisia. We've seen this kind of thing before. But most of the sporadic attacks in Tunisia have been in more remote areas against security services and police. There has been nothing like this in Tunis, the capital. This will be a shock to many Tunisians. A lot of Tunisians are very secular, kind of Western- orientated, liberally orientated.

[11:25:05] But at the same time, a significant number of youngsters have turned to this (inaudible) Jihadi ideology to find answers because of their frustration because of the economic situation in Tunisia. They are getting the politics right. It will take many years still to get the economics right in that country.

BOLDUAN: Important thing that you said right off the top, Paul, and you know this better than most, that this could be a coming out party for ISIS in Tunisia. This is an important thing that we need to be watching, not only in Tunisia and the deaths that have already been brought, but what this means in the broader fight against terror in the region and against ISIS abroad.

Paul, great to have you. Thank you so much.

BERMAN: We'll keep our eye on this because it's developing by the minute here.

Just ahead, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu declares victory, apparently by a margin much bigger than anyone expected. How is this going to affect the already tense U.S./Israeli relations?

BOLDUAN: Also ahead, a dramatic rise and an even more dramatic fall. A young Republican Congressman resigning. Really surprising everyone amid a growing scandal over questionable use of taxpayer dollars. We'll go live to Washington.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BOLDUAN: The Israeli people have spoken, delivering a very big election victory to their prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. The right-wing leader is getting set to serve a historic fourth term in office. About 99 percent of the votes have been counted. Netanyahu has declared victory, of course. His opponent, Isaac Herzog conceded and congratulated Netanyahu.

[11:30:00] BERMAN: Turns out, the race wasn't even really that close.