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At This Hour

Black UVA Student Bloodied During Arrest; Secret Service Erases Surveillance Video; FBI to See if Durst Linked to Cold Cases; Starbucks Gets into Race Relations. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired March 19, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's bring in the University of Virginia's Vice President of Diversity and Equity, Dr. Marcus Martin, as well as our legal analyst, Paul Callan. Paul, stick with me.

Dr. Martin, thank you so much for jumping on with us. You wrote a letter to the university, essentially, to students, faculty and staff, and I just want to read it a little bit to our viewers to get your take.

[11:30:01] You wrote this clearly. You said, "We are outraged by the brutality against the University of Virginia undergraduate student," and you said it was wrong, should not have happened and view the nature of this assault as highly unusual and appalling based on the information you've received.

DR. MARCUS MARTIN, VICE PRESIDENT OF DIVERSITY AND EQUITY, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA (voice-over): That's correct. And this letter was written by me as vice president and chief officer for diversity and equity, and also professor of emergency medicine. I served as chairman of the department of emergency medicine for 10 and a half years. I've been at the university for nearly 20 years. And Dr. Maurice Affray (ph), deemed the officer of African-American affairs professor of psychiatry, been here 34 years. Doctor Affray (ph) is African-American and I'm African-American, we worked at the university in a medical and professional leadership positions for a number of years.

And our statement basically says that we've seen a lot of things. I've seen a lot of things as an emergency position. I can enumerate all sorts of trauma, heart attack, strokes, et cetera. I've treated all the students in the emergency setting but because of the way this evolved, I have to say, it's an unusual situation because of the apparent excessive use of force who was apparently not intoxicated at the time. The ABC officers may have felt he was intoxicated but as it turns out from the information I received, his blood alcohol level was not that of an intoxicated person.

BOLDUAN: Now, doctor --

MARTIN: It was not his blood alcohol level, basically, it was a breathalyzer test.

BOLDUAN: But a lot of this comes when you have the ability to see the video. That is where a lot of the outrage comes from. We've seen students protesting, we've seen the governor calling for an investigation. Do you think and this is maybe a touchy position for you as a member of faculty at the university, do you think the university has reacted properly? Do you think the university is doing enough?

MARTIN: No, I think the university has reacted properly. I worked with President Sullivan. I worked for President Sullivan. I've been in communications with there. I was in a crisis management meeting with her this morning. I participated with students at the office of African-American affairs for a couple of hours yesterday. Some student leaders and I had the opportunity to meet and speak with Martese Johnson in person. And of course, as a physician, had the opportunity to view his wounds. He had 10 stitches, laceration of his forehead, multiple bruises, and some swelling about his face. And to have the opportunity to speak with him as well as other students who witnessed this event. That's why I determined that with my years of experience of seeing trauma, hearing about various incidents and seeing how this developed, I felt like excessive force was used and I can explain more if you like.

BOLDUAN: Well, what did Martese tell you about the incident and the circumstances following?

MARTIN: I can give you a synopsis. Certainly, I don't have word for word. But basically, he was standing on a corner at the location near the university where there are quite a few restaurants and pubs and he was with a crowd of other students. He was talking with someone who was outside of the pub in question and the next thing he knew, someone from the ABC officer group came over to him and asked him for his I.D. He showed the I.D. He didn't resist. He had an id from his home in Illinois and it had his correct birth date. It had the zip code for where he lived. And he was asked a question by the officer about, what is your zip code? So there was some discrepancy between what was on his I.D. and what he said to the officer and the reason for that is he, his folks moved to a different location not too long ago. But it was not a falsified I.D., so --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: And he indicates that's what led to this violent incident?

MARTIN: Well, he was taken to another group of ABC officers, from what he told me, and was asked again for his I.D. He took out his I.D. He showed it. And then there was an exchange of words and I think whatever he said perhaps provoked the ABC officer and he was grabbed by the leg and pushed down on to the hard surface, basically, a hard brick surface in front of the pub. That's where he sustained the injuries. So my interpretation in looking at him after he had been sutured, looking at photos of what happened that night or early in the morning, I surmise the force was excessive.

BOLDUAN: Dr. Marcus Martin, I really appreciate it. Thank so much for jumping on the phone. You are probably one of the view people who have this close to a firsthand account speaking to Martese Johnson at this point. I appreciate your candor. There is more investigation under way. We will be following up with you. Thank you so much.

[11:35:26] MARTIN: Thank you very much. Take care.

BOLDUAN: Of course.

MARTIN: Bye-bye.

BOLDUAN: So Paul Callan still with me.

Paul, we're learning more about Martese Johnson's take on exactly what happened here. When you see that video, you heard from Dr. Martin right there. There was some -- it started over a miscommunication maybe over what the zip code was on his license. What do you make of it?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: As a former prosecutor, and I do criminal defense work as well, when I look at a fact pattern like this in a situation like this, I see that we don't have enough information. The thing I think that's driving people's concern is that picture of blood all over his face.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

CALLAN: And it's just horrific. However, facial wounds bleed profusely. So even a very small facial wound can create that level of blood. And even if it was hypothetically a legitimate use of force or a legitimate arrest --

BOLDUAN: We don't know.

CALLAN: -- and maybe he was struggling and hit his head on the pavement, that's what the cops might say. But on the other hand, as the doctor said, it could have been excessive. So we've got to hear more facts here and find out what the police side of this is before we can reach conclusions.

BOLDUAN: He's charged with public intoxication and obstruction of justice. He's got a hearing for these charges. How does the fact that now this is under investigation, the incident, how does it affect this?

CALLAN: I think it's unfortunate there's so much distrust of local police now, than even an arrest like this which a couple of years ago would be strictly routine leading to anti-police demonstration. Something has to be done to restore faith in the police in this country.

BOLDUAN: There seems to be -- they're talking about, is there a larger issue with the police in Virginia that is something that protesters are calling for action on? We will look into that. A lot more to learn on this whole situation.

CALLAN: We'll see. They could have been totally justified in this whole situation. It's too early to reach a conclusion.

BOLDUAN: Important to know.

Thank you so much, Paul.

CALLAN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

Coming up ahead AT THIS HOUR, questions surrounding the latest problem. The head of the agency telling lawmakers they may have erased surveillance video of the incident involving possible misconduct by agents at the White House. One lawmaker calling that unfathomable. Details ahead.

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[11:41:20] BOLDUAN: New developments involving the latest black eye facing the U.S. Secret Service. In a few hours, the new director, Joe Clancy, will return to Capitol Hill, and expected to tell a Senate panel the reports of two agents crashing into a White House gates that were overblown but still says he's very unhappy that he didn't learn of the alleged incident until five days after it happened. All of this comes after a closed door meeting this week where Clancy revealed that they may have erased surveillance video that could have captured the alleged misconduct by those agents.

Let's bring in Chris Frates with a lot more information on this.

Chris, they did see in this closed-door briefing, some video, just not all of it.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Kate. These were some pretty remarkable revelations, the investigation into two Secret Service agents accused of driving their car around the barricade of an active bomb investigation at the White House. Lawmakers got their first look at the White House surveillance tapes in a closed-door meeting in the agency's director this week. They wanted to see more though, the video from different angles and the director doesn't know if he's got that video. Said the agency's policy is to erase tapes after 72 hours. Now, House Oversight Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz said he's frustrated, doesn't know if he has more case and wondering if he's getting the runaround. The Secret Service said, as a practice, they don't keep video footage after three days except the case of a security incident. Well, did you keep it in this case? They didn't say whether or not they had those tapes.

So we're learning some new information this morning though, Kate, from a law enforcement source who tells CNN that the agency can recover videos after 72 hours from a master system. Now, our source is telling us that nothing is ever really gone, and that's an important detail because Chaffetz has launched his own investigation and he's asked the Secret Service for all the tapes they can find. So this case of the possibly missing tape, it's far from over -- Kate?

BOLDUAN: May not be so missing. And I know, I believe Jason Chaffetz said if you have two tapes, why are the other ones not kept as well when you're talking about this specific incident?

Thank you so much, Chris, great work. Clearly, not over.

New for us this morning, the FBI wants to know if Robert Durst is connected to more unsolved murder cases across the country. The FBI is asking local authorities to examine cold cases and locations near where Durst lived over the past five decades, cases in Vermont, up state New York, San Francisco Bay, and southern California are among the locations they're looking into.

Meanwhile, federal officials are revealing more about what they found when they arrested the 71-year-old heir to a New York real estate fortune in a New Orleans hotel room, more than $40,000 in cash, a loaded gun, and a rubber mask to alter his appearance. Durst is now sitting in a Louisiana's prison's mental health unit because officials fear he's suicidal.

A lot to dig through. The perfect person to speak with, criminal profiler, Pat Brown.

Pat, the documentary that brought this story to light and the arrest and details that followed since then have a lot of people asking really, who is this guy? Does this surprise you that following his arrest, the FBI is now looking into other cold cases?

[11:44:50] PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Kate, I think there's good reason for them to do that. If they can find a case that has DNA, they can absolutely take him to court and convict him because all of these other cases aren't circumstantial. We could use a DNA case. Is he a serial killer? Not that I know of. He may have killed three people, not necessarily a serial killer bah situational killer. Somebody got in his way and he killed or allegedly killed under those circumstances. Not the same as a serial killer who goes out every time to feel a little power control and kills a woman, rapes and kills somebody and dumps her in the Bushes. That's a different kind of mentality. Is he a psychopath? Yes. Capable of killing more? Yes. I think the FBI is doing the right thing. There may be DNA sitting that could really put him away.

BOLDUAN: Throughout this conversation, we should say over and over again his attorneys say he is not guilty of the death of Susan Berman, he did not commit these crimes. He's not guilty. He continued to say that but as we look into these allegations, one of the things a lot of folks are saying, even if you possibly considered a suspect in a case like this, like Susan Brown's death or missing wife back in d the 1980s, why would you voluntarily sit down with a documentary film crew, what does that tell you?

BROWN: Because he's Durst. One of the thing about psychopaths -- and I believe he represents a psychopath -- it excites him. Such a narcissistic personality. He's got away with possible murders, been to court, got away with that, didn't get convicted of a case that absolutely should have received a conviction on in my opinion. He wants to play. It's fun for him. Did he get himself in a bit trouble? Yes. Do I think they've got a great case at court? No because we don't have professional jurors. And I think we'll see the defense attorney say somebody framed Robert Durst. All they had to do was find the envelope with writing on it, copy it, you get a handwriting guy that said, I don't think that's Durst's writing. What have you got? A crazy guy who acts bizarre. That's what the jury sees. I don't think there's enough to put this poor old guy away. I don't think we're necessarily going to see a conviction which is why I'm happy the FBI is looking around for maybe some other evidence.

BOLDUAN: It's so interesting. I want you to tell me more. You call it a situational killer, as if you had to profile him and he said he's not guilty of these crimes, what is the difference then? Tell me a little bit more. A situational killer and a different profile someone might be looking into.

BROWN: If you're looking at what we traditionally think of serial killers, somebody who has killed more than once and does so sometimes quite often, that is the kind of person whose life is going down the drain and when his life goes bad, he wants to feel good. So goes out to target a victim, possibly rapes them, kills them, feels good and goes back to his life, and doesn't do it until he wants to and repeats it over and over for pleasure. A situational killer may never kill more than once in their life. They may kill their spouse when the spouse gets in the way or wants the leave them. Or stealing money, but not out of I have to protect myself or this person is getting in my way, causing me trouble. In the Durst case, we have a divorce situation on the wife. Berman, supposedly information on him and the third man, wanted to assume his identity and do some identity theft there. So we have three different situations where perhaps, if Durst is guilty, he felt these people needed to disappear in order for his life to go on.

BOLDUAN: It really is amazing though. When you take all of that in context of now the FBI is looking for information and looking for authorities and putting so much effort into looking into possible cold cases going back five decades. That's how far back to look and see if there's any connection.

BROWN: It's helpful because s lot of times, DNA was, maybe physical evidence sitting there. It's never been tested. If you can get DNA in any cases that Durst appears on somebody, you finally have a physical case.

Very interesting.

Pat Brown, thank you so much.

BROWN: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, would you talk about race relations with your Starbucks barista? Strange question. Maybe. But that's kind of what's happening. The company's CEO launched a new campaign some call noble, some are calling quite flawed. We're going to take a look at this conversation coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:50:15] BOLDUAN: What started out as an effort to talk about race in America over a cup of coffee has sparked serious backlash or sparked conversation for Starbucks. This week, CEO Howard Schultz asked baristas to write "Race together" on coffee cups to start a national conversation about race. But many have gone on social media complaining that the company overstepped its boundaries. Some asked whether young baristas should start these conversations with customers.

CNN's Poppy Harlow joining me.

Poppy, you went to the man and asked the question, why oh, why? You spoke with Howard Schultz.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think that people pretty high up advised him not to do this and he said, I reject that idea. I'm doing if anyways. He made his opinion in Starbucks position on gay marriage, on guns and money on politics very well known. This is clearly the most hot button topic.

Listen to what Howard Schultz told me about why he made this move.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD SCHULTZ, CEO, STARBUCKS: Certainly there were people and friends of mine and certain people at Starbucks that felt this was not an issue that we should engage in and I rejected that. I rejected that because if we all individually and collectively continue to by a bystander on something that is dividing the nation, where is this headed? And I think we are better than this as a country. I don't think we've made as much progress as we need to. This is not about the stock price or pr or marketing. I think this is a bigger issue and that is that companies, I believe, have a deeper responsibility today to their people and the communities we serve and I'm trying to use our scale for good. That's the bottom line. It's not a perfect solution. It's not going to solve the race problem, but I do believe it is the right thing for us to do at this time as opposed to just ignoring it, being a bystander and watching CNN and other television news broadcast what is going on in Madison and in Ferguson and others without a solution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:55:21] HARLOW: I find it fascinating, especially when he said this isn't about a stock price or about a P.R. stunt, especially when you and I were both talking about this "Time" magazine columnist. He's also Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

BOLDUAN: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

HARLOW: He wrote about this in "Time" magazine. I want to read it for our viewers. He wrote this in response to this whole thing that Schultz is doing. "I'm in awe that he is willing to endure the snarky ridicule and lame coffee jokes from pundits as well as inevitable death threat from clueless trolls all with nothing personally or corporately to gain and a lot to lose. So while I'm in awe of his chutzpah, I'm also in shock that he thinks this will actually work."

So I asked him about whether this is the right platform for such a sensitive topic in conversation. He said, "We are not a perfect company. This is not going to solve the race problem. But I cannot stand by and watch this happen. And I refuse to do that."

I spent part of the day yesterday over at a few different Starbucks locations just asking folks what they thought. One of them who used to work at Starbucks said I know this is coming from the right place, but I don't know. This is the right way to get the message across. What about a change in leadership at the top of Starbucks, more diversity, what about some more fundamental changes. And Starbucks said there is more ahead. But I think a lot of, most people aren't saying is this from the right place, but is this the right way to do it.

BOLDUAN: So interesting. Very Howard Schultz-esque.

HARLOW: Totally.

BOLDUAN: Poppy, thank you for bringing it to us.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: That's it for us AT THIS HOUR. Thanks for joining us, guys.

"Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right after this.

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