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At This Hour

Disturbing Details on Germanwings Co-Pilot; Lubitz Hid Illness from Airline; Italy's High Court to Decide on Amanda Knox Case; Official: Bergdahl Didn't Plan to Desert. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired March 27, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:31:39] ATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: AT THIS HOUR, disturbing new details about the co-pilot's state of mind on the day of the Germanwings' crash. Investigators say they now believe that Andreas Lubitz deliberately tried to hide an illness. They found torn-up medical leave records in his home which had excused him from work. The medical leave also included the day of the actual crash. What they did not find out or they did not find any kind of a good-bye or suicide note inside of his home that might have explained the crash.

Listen here to a little bit more.

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CHRISTOPH MUMPA, GERMAN, FRENCH PROSECUTOR: We have found a letter that indicated that he was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work.

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BOLDUAN: Meanwhile, pilots who knew Lubitz, they painted a different picture of him, and they say that the man they knew never would have deliberately crashed a plane, and they called him normal young man who was full of energy and with a bright future.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Just to be clear, we just heard from Germanwings, the airline here, and they say they never got a sick note for the day they believe that the co-pilot deliberately crashed the airplane into the Alps is shocking.

Fred Pleitgen is outside of the Germanwings headquarters in Cologne.

Fred, so much new information this morning.

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A lot of new information. Germanwings also said, aside from that statement saying they never got a sick note, they believe that corroborates what they say, and the fact that they saw the note torn up inside of a garbage can inside of the apartment, and not just for the day that he -- he did fly that plane into the mountain, but for several other days as well. This, to them, says that he has been hiding this illness that he has for a very long time, and that obviously, he was hiding it on the day that he steered that plane into the French Alps.

So they say that this new information came to light after searching two apartments. One where he was living with his parents and his brother in the town of Mont Bauer and another in Dusseldorf. And we are getting the information that the medical records so important were found inside of the Dusseldorf apartment which is now cordoned off, and the investigators are still on the scene there. The medical records found are going to be handed over to the prosecutors in France, because those are the ones that are leading the investigation, because that is where the plane came down. There were police officers from France who came here to Germany today to pick up the documents to bring them back to France to be further evaluated there.

And of course, at the same time as you have heard, we are hearing from the German prosecutor who is actually using blunt language for a German law enforcement body saying that to them it is very, very clear that it was done deliberately, and clear to them that this man was hiding something very, very significantly from his employer.

[11:34:49] BERMAN: Deemed unfit to work with the condition that he had apparently a long time, and apparently hiding it for a long time. Fred, what is the disclosure regulations in Germany if a medical examiner or a doctor had deem e deemed this man to be unfit to work, or to fly a plane, and any requirement to tell the company, because clearly Lufthansa spoke to the CEO, and they said that he had no idea.

PLEITGEN: Certainly, yes. Yes, certainly, he would be, and if he had a medical condition for a very long time that he knew about, and the medical condition that could impede the work, that is something that he would certainly have to tell the company about, and now, there is more questions about this, however, and there could be a medical condition that maybe he had had in the past, and that he was able to suppress. One of the things that we have been hearing is that in 2008 when he was training to be a pilot, and at the Academy of Lufthansa in Brennan, and that he did take a leave for several months there. Is speculation as to whether or not that had to do with some psychological condition that he might have had, and none of that is corroborated yet? And if it does turn out that he had a condition that he felt that he could suppress, then certainly, that is significant as well. But this condition is something that the employer did not know about, and it is going to be interesting to see if this is something that was physical or indeed a mental problem.

BERMAN: And thank you, Fred Pleitgen.

And Fred told me moments ago that we expect to get what that condition is, and so standby for those details. So stand by for that.

Thanks, Fred.

Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead AT THIS HOUR, when the pieces of this mysterious puzzle started to come together, we should be able to tell everyone why this man wanted to kill himself and 140 other people. And we will delve into it the details found in the apartment, and what they could tell us about the big picture next.

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[11:39:57:] BOLDUAN: New this morning, evidence that a doctor had deemed co-pilot Andreas Lubitz unfit to work, including the time period that the prosecutors say that he flew the plane into French Alps killing 149 innocent people along with himself. Germanwings has said clearly now that it did not receive any sick note from the co- pilot. A German prosecutor says that among the items found in Lubitz's apartment were ripped up documents, medical, that led them to preclude that he had b been hiding the illness from the airline for quite some time.

And joining us for the discussion is CNN safety analyst and former FAA inspector, David Soucie.

This just came out. They wanted to make clear, David, Germanwings did, that a sick was not submitted for the day in question of the co-pilot, Andreas Lubitz. That raises this issue of self- reporting. That's policy, in the U.S. and it seems around the world as well. If you have an issue that can't be founded in an annual test given, it's up to the pilot to self report a problem. That seems to be a problem as well.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, it is a serious problem, but it has a lot of problems of how to change it, too. When if you look at the self-reporting, and thinking about that, say that the person is mentally ill, do they know that they are mentally ill? Probably, not. So you're asking that person to have qualifications of the psychiatrist, or psychologist and say, I'll evaluate myself as if I'm not myself and figure it out and then tell myself that I am ready for duty.

BOLDUAN: And if it's something, even if it is diabetes, and even if you have to self-report something that was not caught in the tests, I was talking to the medical examiner about this, there is an extensive process when they go on the certain medications, because you are sidelined for six months for some situation, and then every three months more and more doctors to check on you as a pilot, and that seems to be a disincentive to self-report.

SOUCIE: Well, certainly, it is, because now you have punishment, and it is punitive for you --

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BOLDUAN: And is it a big problem or outlier here? How big is the self-reporting?

SOUCIE: Well, first of all, frame it in how many of these have happened compared to the millions of the flights that we have.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. SOUCIE: Frame it that way, and the second part is that what I

think that needs to happen is that I look for the set of parameters outside of the pilot, and have you been through a divorce? Have is you moved from one location to another? These are known stress things that have affected your mental capability to address and handle the things that are going on, and if you look at the parameters, then those are the things that don't have to be self-reported, but they are things that we can find out, and the airlines have to find out, and then that could put you in the category of the observation or the chief pilot needs to talk to you at that point, and then the chief pilot may have to make that decision or if it is worse than that, bring in the outside counsel to do that, but the challenge is that all under the HIPAA laws, if it is a medical issue, it has to be kept private. So there is a real, and the HIPAA laws were put in to help.

BOLDUAN: For good reason.

SOUCIE: And now a hindrance, too, and for a good reason, too, for privacy.

BOLDUAN: And, yes, and now we have to learn to manage the information.

SOUCIE: But if you are managing the lives of 150 people, and maybe you have to give up privacy as a celebrity newscaster, you will have to give up some rights than if you were not. Along those lines, if you take a highly critical position, you may have to give up some of the rights that the rest of the world have.

BOLDUAN: Definitely for lack of a better turn, taking an inward look on that, and the spotlight is on that in this regard.

David, thank you so much.

As always, David is going to hang with us for much more.

John?

[11:44:03] BERMAN: Thanks so much, Kate.

Happening now, the fate of Amanda Knox and her boyfriend in the hands of Italy's highest court, and we could get a decision any minute. And big question for United States officials, could she be extradited for the death of her roommate? We will break it down next.

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BOLDUAN: AT THIS HOUR, we are awaiting word from Italy's highest court which will decide whether to uphold Amanda Knox's murder conviction in the 2007 murder death of her then roommate. Knox and her boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, were convicted of murder, and but then they were acquitted and Knox returned to the United States.

BERMAN: Since that ruling, they have had the acquittals overturn and sentenced in absentia to more than 25 years in prison.

And joining us now is former federal prosecutor and CNN's senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeff, a lot of questions. And I'm fascinated by the next question, if they are upheld with the murder conviction in Italy, is there any chance that the United States would extradite them back to Italy?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I would say, yes, there is a chance. Extradition is a very complicated and slow-moving and fairly unusual practice, and the countries are concerned about reciprocity, and there are criminals in Italy that we want brought here, and so we in general want to send their criminals back here, and however, the Amanda Knox case is very controversial, and she has a number of supporters here, and there is a legal argument that might get her out of the extradition altogether.

[11:49:21] BOLDUAN: And, Jeff, you talk about how controversial this whole case has been and when you talk about how many times they have been convicted, acquitted, overturned, and I mean since 2007, it is difficult to follow, and you have to remind yourself each time where exactly things stand, how does the high-profile nature of this case play into, and do you think it helps or hurts her chances of being extradited?

TOOBIN: I think that it will help her chances of not being extradited and helps her that she has so much otherwise this is a fairly routine extradition matter. Murder is clearly a crime that is covered by the extradition treaty between the United States and Italy.

But the thing that's unusual here is that the Italy appellate process is not like our appellate process. It's more like one trial after another. And she -- if she is convicted today -- will be in a position to argue that these are a violation of her rights under double jeopardy, that she has been tried repeatedly for the same crime and that is an exclusion under the extradition treaty. So they could go to the State Department, the State Department, not the Justice Department, runs extradition in this country. And could argue that the treaty doesn't cover this because she has been tried twice for the same offense.

BERMAN: We could get that decision from Italy any minute now. Please stand by for that.

Jeffrey Toobin, thank you so much.

TOOBIN: Okey-doke.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLDUAN: Thanks so much, Jeff.

Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, a stunning new development in the case against Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl. A senior official now saying that he wasn't planning to desert his unit at all. Wait till you hear the surprising reason why Bowe Bergdahl -- why he says the soldier walked away. BERMAN: But first, the social media landscape is getting more

innovative and more competitive. Now Twitter's acquired an app that could change the way you interact with your friends. Here's our Laurie Segall with more on Periscope.

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LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: We're about to interview the CEO of Periscope. Everybody wants to live stream from their Smartphone devices. Another reason, this is a company that reportedly sold for $100 million to Twitter before it even launched.

KAYVON BAYKPOUR, PERISCOPE CO-FOUNDER: Periscope lets you as a user press a button to start a live broadcast. And it's a fantastical way -- we like to think we're building a teleportation chain.

SEGALL: What's interesting is live stream isn't new at all. Why is this taking off now?

BAYKPOUR: Live stream as we thought of it before is a camera on a tripod pointed at something. I think what's different about Periscope, it's a confluence of a few things. The software and hardware is at a place where developers can be -- the connections lets you do a lot. Push notifications helps solve the sin chronic this problem.

SEGALL: I have to ask you about the competition. What separates you guys from this other live streaming app that's getting a ton of attention?

BAYKPOUR: A lot of people say they're live. Periscope can be as slow as two seconds latency. The magic moment is when a viewer says, take me over there and two seconds later we do it.

SEGALL: OK, let's Periscope.

BAYKPOUR: I broadcast. This goes to all my followers. I can syndicate to Twitter if I want to. I can private broadcast and have it go to the rest of my team. So I hit start. I'm now live.

SEGALL: How do you grow a company based on these kinds of moments that are on live streaming?

BAYKPOUR: Stepping into someone's shoes and seeing what's happening right now, something authentic about that. You might be filming your daughter's dance. Who wouldn't want to experience that as it's unfolding?

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[11:57:16] BERMAN: Breaking developments in the government's desertion case against Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl. A senior defense official tells CNN that Bergdahl says he was planning to report order and discipline problems in his unit when he walked away in Afghanistan and fell into the hands of the Taliban. Apparently the claim is that Bergdahl was not planning to desert but was headed to the nearest U.S. military outpost.

Barbara Starr joins us now live from the Pentagon with more on this -- Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John. Well, it can't be said often enough. All of this will be a matter for the military justice system to decide. There will be continued proceedings against Bowe Bergdahl. What we now know is that the initial Army investigation report has a claim from Bergdahl. It may be the beginning of his defense, that he intended not to desert, but he was going to walk to the nearest military outpost in Afghanistan. Remember, this is insurgent territory, back in July 2009, he was going to walk to the nearest outpost to report what he believed was wrong doing, poor leadership, order and discipline problems at his base, that he didn't feel he could stay and report it at his base, perhaps not trusting the leadership there. All of this in the Army investigator's report. It is Bergdahl's justification, his intent, his defense, the beginning of seeing his defense. Two U.S. officials have confirmed to me, these are the essential details that are in that report that has been released to the public. The Army has charged him with desertion. Whether he goes to a full trial on that remains to be seen. But this is some of the information that we know behind the scenes. This young soldier apparently putting down his weapon and saying he intended to walk out in eastern Afghanistan and try and find another place to report what he believed to be problems in his unit -- John?

BERMAN: Would that somehow be a lesser crime or a lesser event, la if he was planning to go to another U.S. post? Essentially, you're abandoning your base there.

STARR: Well, it's interesting. The charge of desertion brought against Bergdahl apparently basically refers to him as -- charging him with shirking his duties, shirking hazardous duty. Very interesting words because desertion, the most serious desertion charge would be that you aim to desert your unit to go be with the enemy and potentially commit treason. What this defense is, is to lay out that he never intended that, this is not someone who intended to desert.

I think it's fair to say his defense attorneys may try to make the case of a much lesser charge of AWOL, absent without leave, that he never intended to be away permanently or to join the enemy, that he was always going to come back -- John?

BERMAN: Barbara Starr, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

BOLDUAN: Thank you all for joining us AT THIS HOUR.