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At This Hour

4 Investigations into Death of Freddie Gray; Alabama Girls Falls Prey to ISIS Terror Group; Dr. Oz Under Fire Over GMOs. Aired 11:30-12p ET

Aired April 22, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:31:03] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Outrage, grief on the streets of Baltimore. Four investigations now launched into the death of Freddie Gray, including a federal civil rights investigation. The 25 year old died a week after he was arrested on what they believe was the only described as a weapons charge for carrying a switch blade. One witness there describes Gray's body as being bent like a pretzel as he was being taken into custody and eventually placed in a police van.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The autopsy shows he had a severe spinal injury. He fell into a coma. His family said he had to have surgery for three fractured vertebrae in his neck and a crush larynx. The family is hopeful they'll get the body back from the state today. Six police officers have been suspended with pay while the department investigates.

I want to bring in a son of Baltimore, Congressman Elijah Cummings, whose district includes Baltimore, joins us now.

Congressman, As I said, you don't just have a congressional interest in this, you have a personal interest in this. This is home for you. As you look at what's happened over the last few days, why has it taken a few days? Have you gotten any answers to the questions of what's taking so long to find out what happened to Freddie Gray?

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (D), MARYLAND: I have not gotten the answers and they could not come fast enough for me. I've lived in this neighborhood and it's not very far from where this incident happened where I lived for 33 years. We have a situation here where a young man who the police say was in a drug infested area and they made eye contact with him and he ran. Let me tell you something -- and then the next thing we know, he's dead a week later. Spinal cord, 80 percent severed. And they say that this incident happened without incident or force. It just is so upsetting. When we see the result that is Freddie Gray dying and suffering and then hear the police say that it was done -- he was arrested without incident or force, it goes against -- it is ridiculous actually. It's insulting to the intelligence of anybody who hears it. So what I've asked the police to do is to do what they have asked me to do. Whenever we have an incident in the city where we can't get witnesses to come forward, I worked with police. And said to neighbors and people who may have seen it, I say you don't have the right to remain silent. You must come forward and tell what happened. I'm saying to the police somebody knows what happened here. They do not have the right to remain silent. We've got to restore trust in this city between the police and the community. We've got to do even more than that. We've got to have total transparency.

BOLDUAN: You talk about you need to restore trust in the community and trust between the police department and community. You also have a mayor here who says she can't get answers of why this has happened. Do you think that the mayor and the police commissioner are equipped to handle this? It seems pretty simple. Everyone seems to be saying we need to get answers. We need transparency. Those in charge aren't doing that.

CUMMINGS: I think they are trying to do that. Part of the problem is that there are certain rules and laws and regulations that protect the police officers. We have in Maryland what's called a policeman's bill of rights where certain questions can't even be asked of a policeman until several days have gone by. So they have their own restrictions. One of the things that's good is that we have brought in now the DOJ and that's important. Months ago the mayor and police commissioner invited the DOJ to come in and look at our overall police system to see if there are any problems. And there are. And so I think they are moving in the right direction. They've already suspended the six officers involved. They have now instituted as of yesterday training with regard to how to make these arrests particularly if somebody is complaining of illness. Again, there's a lot to this. That's why I'm glad the Department of Justice is now involved in this. So that we can get an independent look.

[11:36:03] They've been involved with this department from before this incident as you correctly said. What's wrong with the Baltimore police force then? 102 lawsuits for excessive force since 2011 for $5.7 million. So what's the issue within this police force keeping them from coming forward with answers, if the mayor wants it and the police chief wants it?

CUMMINGS: Again, keep in mind that I practice law, criminal law, for many years. These police officers are now in a defensive mode. I'm sure by now they all have lawyers. They know that it's quite possible that they may be charged criminally. So it's hard to get answers from them. There are probably system-wide problems that have been going on for many years and hopefully with DOJ involved, we'll be able to find out what they are and do a Ferguson type study to come up with exactly how the policemen operated and what the systemic problems have been and are and try to address them. One of the things that you all need to know is that we have a young African-American woman who has just been elected our state's attorney. Very impressive young lady. She will be getting the results of the investigation -- she's jointly investigating with the police, Baltimore city police this incident, and she'll be making decisions with regard to whether to prosecute these officers. And they have set a deadline of May 1st to have this investigation completed. So we're going to get the answers and we're going to address this.

But again, I've said to the public, I believe that we'll have transparency. We have a great state's attorney who will look at it very carefully and fairly. At the same time, we got to keep in mind the police officers are entitled to due process but the question is who will speak for Freddie Gray. That's what's concerning me. I want to make sure that his family gets the answers that they deserve and that they are treated fairly.

BOLDUAN: You're speaking up and being part of that voice for them.

BERMAN: Congressman Elijah Cummings, Baltimore's own, thank you for being with us. Appreciate it, sir.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Up next, could the Boston Marathon bomber's middle finger be a deciding factor on whether he gets the death penalty. Prosecutors painting Dzhokhar Tsarnaev as unrepentant as the jury decides his fate.

BOLDUAN: And pushing quack treatments for personal gain. That's what critics say Dr. Oz is doing, and he's not having any of it. He's now firing back.

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[11:42:1800] BERMAN: Happening now. Emotional testimony inside the courtroom in the sentencing phase for the now convicted Boston Marathon bomber. Family and friends of MIT Officer Sean Collier -- remember, he was the officer shot and killed by the Tsarnaev brothers days after the marathon attack -- those friends and family on the stand this morning.

BOLDUAN: This testimony coming a day after prosecutors showed a picture of Tsarnaev during arraignment holding up his middle finger to a camera in his holding cell.

Let's bring in former prosecutor and CNN legal analyst, Sunny Hostin, to discuss these developments.

We knew this was the important phase. This is the important phase because his guilty verdict was a foregone conclusion.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think so. We knew that because Judy Clark, his defense attorney who is one of the best in the country, started out by saying he did this. This was about whether or not she could save his life. That's what we're seeing play out.

BOLDUAN: The big question I have is the impact you believe that the victim's family speaking out on the stand and what the impact is then on the jury. You can see what the prosecution is arguing for the death penalty. What's the impact of these stories being told once again to the jury?

HOSTIN: I think in terms of the cruelty of this crime and heinous nature of this crime, that's what these people will be speaking to. They're going to be speaking to how this has affected their lives and especially hearing from the families of the little boy, Martin Richards, that was killed. That in and of itself is enough to establish heinous and cruel nature of this crime. That's why we're hearing from them again. I don't think that the jury is going to hear what they would like the sentence to be. The Supreme Court has been pretty clear on that. The jury can't hear what they would like the sentence to be, whether or not they think --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: This is crucial. Can they be asked directly? This matters because there are a significant number of victims' families here who do not want to see the death penalty including the family of Martin Richards. They don't want the appeals process to go dragged out and never want to see Tsarnaev again.

HOSTIN: I think the short answer is the jurors won't hear that. The longer answer is prosecutors always take that into consideration. They obviously have met with the family. They are still pressing forward with the death penalty. But this jury, John, will definitely hear the argument from Judy Clark that putting him to death is giving him what he wants and how can she make that argument? Because on the side of the boat which the prosecution has already referenced, he wrote about martyrdom and resented that his brother was able to become a martyr.

(CROSSTALK)

[11:45:27] BERMAN: She can't put the victims' families on the stand and say do you want them to get the death penalty and have them say no?

HOSTIN: The Supreme Court has made it clear that will not happen.

BOLDUAN: What do you think of the argument that he doesn't want to be put to death? I mean, he hired one of the best death penalty attorneys in the country in this woman.

HOSTIN: That's --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: It's one theory I heard.

HOSTIN: You make a good point. I think the prosecution is going to say, listen, death is appropriate here. He's trying to save his life. That's why he's putting on this defense. I think that when you talk about Massachusetts, a state that isn't necessarily heavily in favor of the death penalty, I think that it will perhaps ring true for some of those jurors if Judy Clark makes the argument that putting him to death gives him what he wants. A fate worse than death would be putting him in prison for the rest of his life. We'll hear that argument.

BOLDUAN: And the defense is definitely going to spend more time than we'll hear the prosecution making their case.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: We heard the prosecution case. We haven't heard yet the defense case and that's coming up.

BOLDUAN: That will start up.

Sunny, thank you so much.

HOSTIN: You bet.

Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, she told her family she was going on a trip. Instead, she went to Turkey to join ISIS. How a woman described as quiet and reserved in her Alabama high school fell prey to terror.

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[11:50:31] BOLDUAN: New developments about ISIS recruiting efforts targeting young people in the United States. A young woman lured into the terror group's clutches, running away from home to join them in jihad.

BERMAN: U.S. officials say she is trying to draw other Americans in to the deadly sphere of influence from ISIS right now and perhaps inspiring lone-wolf attacks here in the United States.

CNN's Pamela Brown has the troubling story.

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PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Intelligence officials say this 20-year-old University of Alabama, Birmingham, dropout once considered quiet and shy by her classmates is a potential national security threat. A family spokesperson says Hoda Muthana fled to Syria in November after communicating with members of ISIS online.

HASSAN SHIBLY, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: She had withdrawn from the Muslim community over a year before she left to join ISIS because she knew that the community was not sympathetic to those extremist groups.

BROWN: According to BuzzFeed she posted on social media this picture of four western passports with the caption "bond fire soon no need for these anymore." In March, she tweeted under the name go on drive-byes and spill their blood or rent a big truck and drive all over them parades in the U.S. She tweeted about the need for more American ISIS recruits saying, "So many Aussies and Brits here, but where are the Americans? Wake up you cowards."

A law enforcement official says women like her play a powerful role influencing others.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're very good at both drawing in other women and also egging men on basically saying I'm over here in Syria, why are you still waiting at home? BROWN: In an interview from Syria she told BuzzFeed, quote, "I

felt like my life was so bland, life has so much more meaning when you know why you're here." Her family believes she may have been speaking under duress. The spokesperson says her messages to her family have been conflicting. In one, she asks for $2500 to escape ISIS and complained the group was pressuring her to marry against her will. But when the family offered to help, she went dark. And later messaged she was happily married to an ISIS fighter.

SHIBLY: She will have to answer to God for the pain and suffering she is putting her parents through.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Pamela Brown reporting. Thanks for that report. A really interesting perspective.

BOLDUAN: Amazing when she told her family she was leaving, going to Atlanta, for a field trip and calls them when she's in Turkey.

BERMAN: That's not Atlanta. She's on a field trip.

Ahead for us AT THIS HOUR, have you ever seen Dr. Oz angry? Well, you will. Why he is now lashing out. And why other doctors are saying look away.

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[11:57:06] Hell hath no furry like Dr. Oz scorned during sweeps. There is a furious battle being waged on the fields of daytime TV. Millions of people watch Dr. Oz and seem to like what he says, but others say that is the problem. Some of his ideas, they say, have little or no scientific backing.

BOLDUAN: Most recently, Dr. Oz's take on genetically modified foods are prompting a call, in part, for his removal from the faculty at Columbia University. 10 doctors not affiliated with the school sent a letter to the school that read this in part: "Members of the public are being misled and endangered, which makes Dr. Oz's presence on the faculty of a prestigious medical institution unacceptable."

Dr. Oz will be taking this on in his show tomorrow. The show released a preview clip. Look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MEHMET OZ, HOST, DR. OZ SHOW: This month we celebrate my 100th show. I know I irritated some potential allies in our quest to make America healthy. No matter our disagreements, freedom of speech is the most fundamental right we have as Americans. And these 10 doctors are trying to silence that right. So I vow to you right here, right now, we will not be silenced. We will not give in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us now CNN senior media correspondent, Brian Stelter.

Brian, what do you make of all this?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, RELIABLE SOURCES: This is a really interesting case to see Dr. Oz coming out and being so aggressive because he's been criticized before, we saw him on Capitol Hill get secured last year.

BOLDUAN: Read the riot act.

STELTER: Not much he could say. In this case he thinks he has a strong case, thinks these ten doctors are out to get him, intimidate him because they are supportive of GMOs, he believes GMOs should be labeled and they're going after him for that reason. He thinks he has a case here. It is a reminder as you are saying about some of the sketchy material we've seen on Dr. Oz's show in the past. He does 180 shows a year and stuff on that show that we should not always take very seriously and I think it reminds me of the first lesson of journalism school, trust but verify. You can't watch the show without then checking with your doctor and finding out if what he's saying is legit.

BERMAN: It needs to be said, Brian, tomorrow, when this will air, when he's taking the fight big and public, it's sweeps.

STELTER: The beginning of the sweeps month, yes, when ratings are monitored more closely for all the local TV stations that Dr. Oz is on. He's taking some bad press trying to turn it into a ratings promotion moment for him. We should know that and viewers should know that when they go into it. It does show he is trying to be proactive here and knows his credibility is on the line, vulnerable on some of these issues. And I have a feeling what we'll continue to see on Dr. Oz's show is less of the far-out-there ideas for magic weight loss and some of the basics because we know there is no magic answer.

BOLDUAN: Just real quick, has his credibility, when it has been called into question, hurt his viewership?

STELTER: We haven't seen big impacts. This is about thinking towards the future, big empire, magazines and books. He's got to make sure that stays around.

BERMAN: Four million viewers a day, which is almost as much as AT THIS HOUR.

Thanks, Brian.

BOLDUAN: Almost.

BERMAN: Appreciate it.

So close.

Good luck, Dr. Oz.

Thanks, Brian. Thanks for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

[12:00:05] BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.