Return to Transcripts main page

At This Hour

Violence Engulfs Chicago during July 4th Holiday; S.C. Lawmakers Vote on Confederate Flag; Market Fears After Greeks Vote No on Bailout; David Sweat Sent to "Horrible Place"; Trump's Political Rivals Speak Out. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 06, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00] ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: And thanks to all of you for being here today on this Monday. I'm Ana Cabrera. Great to have you with us.

AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A little boy shot and killed while celebrating the Fourth of July, one of seven people murdered, dozens injured in a gruesome weekend in just one city. This morning, there's a fresh round of finger pointing as to who is to blame.

KATE BOLDUAN: CNN ANCHOR: The Confederate flag, will they bring it down or keep it flying? South Carolina lawmakers are debating the issue right now about removing the flag from capitol grounds.

BERMAN: And then fears of chaos in the world markets. Greek voters tell Europe to take their bailout and shove it. So what does that mean for your wallet and your 401K?

Hello. I'm John Berman.

BOLDUAN: And I'm Kate Bolduan.

Law enforcement across the country had warned and prepared for a possible ISIS-inspired terror attack over the Fourth of July holiday weekend, but the most shocking outbreak of violence had nothing to do with terrorism.

BERMAN: Horrific burst of bullets and bloodshed between Thursday afternoon and this morning in Chicago. At least seven people dead, including a 7-year-old boy. Dozens more wounded. The frustrated and angry police chief says the shootings are proof that more man power, it's not helping, and that the justice system itself is broken.

Our Ryan Young is in Chicago with the very latest.

Good morning, Ryan.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John and Kate. Look, the news here is just heartbreaking, when you hear the news about that young man, 7 years old, outside enjoying fireworks when he's shot in the chest and dies. Now, we've been told that the bullet may have been targeted for his father but it doesn't take away from the fact that so many Americans are outside trying to enjoy the Fourth of July, and this young man is shot. The violence here in Chicago is nothing new. In fact, they said since Friday they've been able to confiscate one illegal gun every single hour off the streets of Chicago.

We heard passion from the superintendent as he talked about just the amount of violence going on in the streets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARRY MCCARTHY, SUPERINTENDENT, CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT: We need some help here, folks. We have to fix this broken system. If you think that putting more cops on the street would make a difference, then take a look at the fact that we put a third more man power on the street for this weekend. What's the result? We're getting more guns. Well, that's great. It's not stopping the violence and it's not going to stop the violence until criminals are held accountable and something is done to stem the flow of these guns into our city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: John and Kate, of course, we can look at the numbers, we can talk to people, we can talk to police, but when you walk through the neighborhoods, you hear real desperation. You hear people really asking for change. The idea that a 7-year-old can't stand on the sidewalk and enjoy the fireworks, it really hits you in a different way because obviously you know these people can't just leave their neighborhoods, and that's something a larger conversation is going on about, just how to stop the guns from flowing into the neighborhood. In fact, the numbers for the shootings are actually down this year from last year. More officers are on the street, but still the impact has been felt all across this city at this point.

BOLDUAN: It's absolutely right, Ryan. One thing you said, I think that really sticks in people's minds, the fact that the police, they picked up one illegal gun every hour, and that's how much illegal guns and weapons that they were looking at. But clearly you can sense the frustration from that police chief there. He does not see that as a success.

YOUNG: When you look at the table and you saw all the guns on the table and the fact that, look, the nickname for the city is Chiraq (ph). You wake up Monday morning, some of the papers here, the amount of shootings that happened over the weekend, sometimes it gets glossed over. Right now this is having an impact and people are asking for significant change, for something to happen so that people in the neighborhoods like this one -- they talk about fireworks, but the fact that the bullets in the neighborhood sometimes sound like fireworks every single night.

BERMAN: An awful weekend and an awful situation right now on the ground there.

Ryan Young, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

A potentially historic moment happening right now in South Carolina. After weeks of emotional discussion and soul searching, state legislators are in a special session right now debating whether to remove the Confederate flag from capitol grounds. Governor Nikki Haley and many others calling for it to come down following the massacre in Charleston.

BOLDUAN: A two-thirds majority is needed in both the state House and the Senate to bring down the flag. A poll of lawmakers conducted by "The Charleston Post and Courier" found the legislature most likely will have those votes, but, of course, the debate is happening as we speak.

CNN's Nick Valencia is on the ground in Columbia.

Nick, what's the latest? What's happening right now?

[11:05:00] NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. As you mentioned, that special Senate session has just gotten under way minutes ago. What we expect the debate to focus on according to lawmakers is they're going to debate the merits of this bill to permanently remove the Confederate flag from state grounds, a flag that has flown on the state capitol since 1961, just about 15 years ago. They moved that flag front and center really in better view of the public to a Confederate soldier's memorial just in front of the steps there. At about 1:00 p m., we expect the House to get under session where they will as well take a debate, whether or not testimony will happen for this bill or whether it will go straight to the floor.

Now, this is no doubt been a polarizing issue. Some people say that the Confederate flag simply a symbol and representation of southern heritage and pride. Others say that's not the case, that it is a symbol of racism and hatred, and you see behind me here if we just want to pan in, a crowd has formed a little larger than we saw earlier this morning.

Earlier, we got into that crowd and talked to people on both sides of the issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has only been politicized since the NAACP was almost out of business due to internal corruption in the early 1990s. That's the only reason there's any controversy over it. Everybody loves the south and the flag worldwide. They love "Gone with the Wind," so it's totally artificial this whole conflict. I call it a "nontroversy."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm 60 years old and we have been fighting the Civil War my entire life. I well know what this flag stands for. It's division and hate. And I'm here to make amends for my Confederate ancestors and join with the people of South Carolina to call for the flag to come down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Now, the man we featured in this report, we ran into a woman on the other side of the debate, a woman who wants to see the flag taken down, and we talked to her just after she was giving a statement to police. She was she says assaulted, pushed by that man we featured in the report. We went back to him to get his comment. He didn't want to talk about the issue, only saying he is an innocent man -- John, Kate?

BOLDUAN: Guess this looks like a fight on the outside and also a debate and a fight going on inside that capitol right now. They could, some guesstimate they could get that bill, if passed, to the governor's desk by the end of the week.

Nick, great to see you. Thank you very much.

So fallout from the Greek debt crisis is dragging Wall Street down a bit as markets opened this morning. This, of course, is after Greeks responded to bailout offer with a resounding no in their vote yesterday. And there's still no solution to the country's financial crisis. Today, financial markets around the world are taking the hit because of it.

BERMAN: They said no. They made no sound like a four-letter word the way they said it.

(CROSSTALK)

Joining us for what it means for U.S. markets and your 401K, Alison Kosik, down on the floor, near the floor of the exchange.

How are things looking right now -- Alison?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John and Kate. You know what? I don't see any Greek drama here. There's no panic, there's no Armageddon. I'm seeing stocks cut their losses. We did see the Dow down as much as 150, 160 points, but it's come back quite a bit. But, you know, you look at the overall picture about this whole Greek drama, the losses have added up over the past few sessions because of what's happening in Greece. You saw what happened last week. The Dow had its biggest drop of the year when Greece missed a debt payment. But we're just not seeing the market in free fall over this because the fact of the matter is U.S. investors have little direct exposure to Greece because for years now they've known something like this could happen, and they've pulled their investments out of Greece. But here is a warning, fasten your seat belts anyway because volatility is expected to hold on because we just don't know at this point how this whole Greek drama is going to end, and that could mean we could see wild swings as we see the market react to the headlines in the coming days that come out of Greece -- John and Kate?

BERMAN: Just not clear when U.S. markets are going to decide this is a real problem going forward yet. Not today, but could be tomorrow or the next day.

KOSIK: Exactly.

BERMAN: Alison Kosik, thanks so much.

BOLDUAN: We're looking at unchartered territory absolutely. Coming up for us, back behind bars. David Sweat will be locked up in

a new prison in a special unit after escaping from Clinton Correctional. Coming up, a former inmate who served time in that very prison describing it as "a horrible place."

BERMAN: And then the most stunning 16 minutes of soccer so many of us have ever seen. The United States wins the World Cup. We will speak with a new American legend, who scored and scored and scored.

You know what? She may have very well just scored again, for all I know. She cannot be stopped.

Stay with us.

BOLDUAN: The game ended.

BERMAN: And she's still scoring goals.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:12:39] BOLDUAN: David Sweat is back behind bars this morning, discharged from the hospital and waking up at a new maximum security prison, the Five Points Correctional Facility in Romulus, New York.

BERMAN: That's about a five-hour drive from the Clinton County Correctional Facility he broke out of on June 6th. Sweat will be housed for 23 hours a day in a single cell within the 150-bed confinement unit. Each cell has a bed a writing platform, a toilet and sink. He will have access to a facility controlled shower, which means he doesn't get to turn it on. They turn it on for him.

Joining us is Eric Jensen. He was an inmate with Clinton Correctional, where Sweat and Matt were, and also served time at Five Points in Romulus, so has insight once again into all of this.

Thanks so much for being with us, Eric. I appreciate it.

ERIC JENSEN, FORMER INMATE: You're very welcome.

You call Romulus, particularly the confinement unit, a horrible place.

JENSEN: A horrible place. You don't leave your cell. Officers control your water for your shower. There's a back door that they can pop open from the control booth that you're allowed to walk out into an 8x4 little pen outside of your cell and that's your hour of recreation. Other than that, you won't leave that cell unless you have an attorney visit or a regular or a no-contact visit.

BOLDUAN: So you served time at both Clinton and Five Points?

JENSEN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: How did those two prisons differ from each other? We've heard so much about Clinton correctional, more than any of us would ever think we'd know about a prison. What's different about Five Points? JENSEN: Five Points is the newest facility in the Department of Corrections and Community Supervision in New York. It's all state of the art monitored. There's cameras everywhere. There's 1,000 cameras, I believe, in that facility. They monitor your rec time. They monitor your cell time. There's no place in that building you can go that you're not on a camera.

BERMAN: Hypothetically speaking, not the kind of place you could tunnel out and climb out of a manhole?

JENSEN: Definitely, not.

BERMAN: And you can bet they're watching him like a hawk.

JENSEN: Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. He's on suicide watch, but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody is sitting there constantly just doing a one-on-one with him for right now.

BOLDUAN: We've talked a lot with you about kind of prison culture at Clinton and how we've heard even from others who have -- a reporter who worked up there, how unusual the prison culture was at Clinton. How did your experiences compare between Five Points and Clinton correctional, the inmate population. Is it different as a prisoner in those two?

[11:15:00] JENSEN: It is different. You get less rec yard time. You're not out in the yard for eight, six hours or however long the rec is for that day.

BERMAN: At Five Points.

JENSEN: Correct. At Clinton, it was six to eight hours.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: So there's basically no opportunity to interact with other inmates.

JENSEN: There's less rec time there as well as you're separated more. You're not allowed to just walk around and move throughout the facility like you were in Clinton. They don't have open cell policy where you can walk out and walk in as you please.

Also, the interaction between the inmates, you have sliding doors that are thick metal sliding doors, so for you to even scream to somebody across the hallway from you is -- you're going to lose your voice.

BERMAN: We call it a confinement facility. Is this in the vernacular solitary?

JENSEN: He's in solitary.

BERMAN: That is something any inmates dread.

JENSEN: Yes, yes. Inmates dread that. They know that all the privileges are stripped from them, and the only thing they can do is write. That's it.

BERMAN: And you never were in confinement. You were never in solitary for any period of time.

JENSEN: Right, not for a long period of time.

BERMAN: But I'm sure you ran into people who were. What does it do to you over time? What does it do to your emotional stamina?

JENSEN: You lose hope. You feel -- if you're doing natural life behind bars and now you're in solitary confinement, what would you hope to live for now? You live to hope to get out of the box, out of the solitary confinement, to go back to a regular prison? Is that what your dreams and goals are?

BOLDUAN: What do you think -- we've talked also about no matter where he would end up how he's going to be treated differently by guards or other inmates even if he doesn't encounter them. How is life different in how guards are going to treat him?

JENSEN: They're going to treat him with status quo honor label that he had before. He's going to be treated worse than probably the worst because he did one of the worst things you could do in a correctional facility besides harming a correctional officer is escaping from a correctional facility, and they're going to treat him, you know, worse.

BERMAN: And I suppose you can bet there's not going to be anyone who develops any type of long term --

JENSEN: No.

BERMAN: Forget the relationship that may or may not have existed with Joyce Mitchell --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: -- I even mean like a conversation relationship.

JENSEN: No, no, they're not going to entertain anything he has to say. I wouldn't be surprised if they keep him there for a little bit and move him around to other facilities like that because there are other facilities such as up state correctional facility and each hub, prison hub, has its own cell block like Five Points.

BOLDUAN: What would the point of that be? To keep -- further unsettles, further punishment.

JENSEN: Keep him unfamiliar with the staff, with the territory, with the layout of the prisons.

BERMAN: Make no mistake, they're not in this for his comfort right now. They're in it to not have him break out ever again and frankly to punish him for what he did, correct?

JENSEN: Yeah, correct. And Five Points is also a medical facility being that he did just get shot twice, that they will keep him there. Whether he stays there or they move him, we'll see.

BOLDUAN: Eric Jensen, great to see you. Thank you very much.

JENSEN: You're very welcome, Kate.

Good insight there. Thank you so much.

Coming up for us, the makings of a Greek tragedy after voters in Greece say absolutely no to a bailout offer.

BERMAN: Not just no, absolutely no.

BOLDUAN: I'm looking for something to make it stronger than no.

Up next, a breakdown of what the fallout could mean for you and your money.

BERMAN: Also coming up for us, Donald Trump, he's talking again, but now the Republican candidates he's running against, they are speaking out as well. Some surprising comments from his opponents this weekend. You will be surprised what they're saying.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, no.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Absolutely, no.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:22:03] BOLDUAN: At this point, it would probably surprise you if Donald Trump would back down on anything. He's standing by his comments about Mexican immigrants. He says the recent arrest of an undocumented immigrant for murder in San Francisco, he says that that proves his point.

BERMAN: Trump's previous statements that Mexican immigrants are rapists and murders, they cost him business deals and TV shows, but he's number two in just about every presidential poll on the Republican side.

And now it seems as if his Republican rivals feel like they need to speak out in new forceful ways. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R), NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think what he said was wrong. I don't think it was appropriate and I don't think it has any place in the campaign.

JEB BUSH, (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Trump is wrong on this. He's not a stupid guy so I don't think he thinks every Mexican who crosses the border is a rapist so he's doing this to inflame and incite and to get -- to draw attention.

RICK PERRY, (R), FORMER TEXAS GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump does not represent the Republican Party. I was offended by his remarks. To paint with that broad a brush that Donald Trump did is -- he's going to have to defend those remarks.

MIKE HUCKABEE, (R), FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Honestly, Donald Trump needs no help from Mike Huckabee to get publicity. He's doing a really good job of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: No mistake there. Ignoring Donald Trump no more.

Let's discuss this more with our senior political reporter, Nia-Malika Henderson.

Nia, we did see a new tone, a new posture and a new aggressive nature from the Republican rivals that Donald Trump is facing.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right. It's Donald Trump versus everybody in many ways. You saw Marco Rubio come out with a statement. Only Ted Cruz seemed to pull his punches, didn't really want to criticize Donald Trump, said he felt like Donald Trump was raising some valid issues in the campaign. Who knew that Donald Trump would be dominating press coverage and dominating what Republicans would be talking about just a couple weeks into announcing his campaign? That's the surprise here.

If you flash back to 2013, you had the Republican national committee really talk about wanting to broaden the case of the Republican Party but also really control this whole process of a presidential election by limiting debates and not having this kind of rhetoric really dominate the campaign trail like it is right now. I think people have talked about, for instance, this damaging Republicans chances with Latinos, but it also damages their chances I think with independent voters, with white suburban voters, so that's the danger here. You hear a lot of Republican strategists talking about that.

BOLDUAN: You talk about danger. You mentioned Ted Cruz. I wanted to ask you about that. Ted Cruz was really the only candidate on the Sunday shows yesterday. He was not critical of Donald Trump. He even said he salutes Donald Trump. But doesn't conventional wisdom tell you that Ted Cruz is the one with the most to lose if Donald Trump stays in this race?

HENDERSON: In some ways, yes. And you imagine that Donald Trump or Ted Cruz might be looking down the line in looking at Donald Trump as an ally. If Donald Trump ends up backing out, he's talked about how this is bad for his brand. Maybe he decides he has to drop out of this thing and toss some of his support to Ted Cruz. But I think you're exactly right. It is interesting that he's sort of twinning himself to Donald Trump in this way. In some ways we saw this again in 2012. Even though Mitt Romney has come out and criticized Donald Trump, last go-around he was very much wanting that endorsement from Donald Trump. He did get that endorsement from Donald Trump. So I think people didn't quite think about what a force of nature Donald Trump would be in this campaign. He's this guy who doesn't play by the rules that normally govern a campaign. He's out there even with this criticism you've seen it's only fueled his fire even more.

[11:25:48] BERMAN: You know, one of the reasons that we didn't get a response or as aggressive a response from the Republican candidates, they didn't want to give him the extra air time and didn't want to engage in a spitting match as it were and you're seeing the effect. Jeb Bush spoke out, Donald Trump put out a statement lashing out at Jeb Bush. Rick Perry spoke out, Donald Trump put out a statement attacking Rick Perry but there may be strength in numbers if you have most of the entire field now, it may to some extent perhaps, Nia, neuter Donald Trump. It makes it hard for him to attack everybody.

HENDERSON: Well, you know, Donald Trump likes this engagement. I don't think necessarily anything is going to stop him. It's only giving him the kind of platform that he wanted. He's able to use his bombastic language. We haven't seen him retreat in any way. I think this set up with him versus the entire field is in some ways what he wants, and it's also he's tapping into the desire at least of some people in this party to have someone to speak in this way who is the anti-politician. So perhaps we'll see some lessening of the rhetoric from him, but so far we haven't seen that.

BERMAN: Don't bet on it.

BOLDUAN: Don't bet on that one, Nia.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Nia, thanks so much.

BOLDUAN: Thank you.

HENDERSON: Thanks, guys.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, it was a resounding no. Now what happens in Greece? Ahead, how talks of a new bailout could affect you and your 401K.

BERMAN: Then her coach calls her a beast and a rock star. The World Cup calls her the best player of the tournament. She may very well be the most clutched athlete on earth right now. We will speak to Carli Lloyd about her historic game and one of the most amazing shots you will ever see.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)