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At This Hour

New Details on Chattanooga Shooting Rampage; Trump Leading Polls, Softens Comments on McCain; New Baltimore Police Audio Shows Police Held Back During Riots; John Kasich Announces Run for President in Speech. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired July 21, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Costello.

AT THIS HOUR with Kate Bolduan starts right now.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Three big events happening live during this show. First, Donald Trump getting ready to hold a rally and face the media in South Carolina, a key primary state, as he looks to increase his lead among his Republican rivals. As you know, Mr. Trump is unpredictable, to say the least.

Plus, the governor of Ohio will soon announce he's the 16th major Republican to officially declare his bid for the White House. Is John Kasich a dark horse?

And President Obama is getting ready to address veterans and expected to talk about everything from the deal with Iran to the attack on the military in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Could he also mention John McCain as he speaks before a crowd of veterans?

I'm Kate Bolduan. This is CNN special live coverage.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BOLDUAN: Breaking news in the Chattanooga shooting rampage. Authorities now say that the evidence is increasingly indicating that the gunman's motive was terror. Writings examined by the FBI and other evidence show that the shooter, Mohammad Abdulazeez, had political and terrorist motives and that he had done recent Internet searches on martyrdom.

Let's get much more on this with CNN's justice reporter, Evan Perez.

Evan, you have been talking to your sources. That's where all this information is coming from. What more are they telling you?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, there's a lot of contradictions that the FBI investigators are working through on this particular case, but it's increasingly clear that this was a terrorist shooting, that this was politically motivated, and here is why. They've looked at writings by Mohammed ad Abdulazeez, some dating back to 2013, in which you see him seeming to be radicalized. He seems to be making references. He's making references to Anwar al Awlaki and how he agrees with certain of his teachings and increasingly even after that he is talking about martyrdom and wondering whether or not he could achieve martyrdom and in that way atone for some of his sins like abusing drugs and alcohol. That seems to be part of issues that he's working through, mental health issues, drug abuse issues. He's working with issues with his family. He was trying to hide from them that he had lost a job as a result of failing a drug test. So all of these things appear to be combining in his mind, and then you fast forward to just a few days before the shooting, again he's back on his phone doing searches on martyrdom and making references to Awlaki according to investigators. At this point, it appears he wasn't inspired necessarily by is, but he was kind of a cafeteria radicalizer. He was taking from different places on the Internet and arriving at these political views. Now, the FBI says they're still working at this. They haven't established a firm motive, but increasingly that's what the picture looks like, Kate.

BOLDUAN: But, again, just to reiterate your point, there's been no communication with any organized terror group though. Doesn't make it any less terrifying, the horrific act he carried out.

EVANS: Absolutely. No links to -- to direct links to any terrorist groups and really what this points to, this is the kind of guy that is almost impossible for law enforcement to stop in some ways because he's not doing any of the things that are supposed to set off trip wires and get the FBI to sort of take a closer look. This is the type of case that doesn't really fit into the mold that we've been hearing about so much recently, and that's why national security officials are particularly concerned about this case.

BOLDUAN: That's what makes it just so scary, but again to reiterate your point, Evan, the motive is increasingly appearing to be it's terrorism based on his political and religious views. That's what investigators are telling Evan.

Evan, thanks so much.

PEREZ: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: We're going it turn to our big political news. A lot of politics happening in this hour today.

He is being called a feckless blow hard, a bloviator and G.I. joke, and those are some of the nicer comments recently. But right now you must call Donald Trump the man to beat. A new CNN -- a new ABC/"Washington Post" poll has him at the top of the Republican presidential pack, the biggest lead for a Republican so far. Part of the poll was conducted after Trump's comments about John McCain, which ignited a flurry of criticism coming from people in both parties, but it is too soon to tell if those comments did any lasting damage to his campaign.

CNN's new poll of polls also shows Trump in the lead. Trump hasn't apologized for questioning McCain's status as a wash hero, but he possibly softened his tone last night on FOX News. Listen and judge for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP GROUP: I have respect for Senator McCain. I used to like him a lot. I supported him. I raised a lot of money for his campaign against President Obama. And certainly if there was a misunderstanding, I would totally take that back but, hopefully, I said it correctly, and certainly, shortly thereafter, I said it correctly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[11:05:15] BOLDUAN: So possibly, maybe, that's a Donald Trump apology.

Just this morning, the largest paper in the key caucus state of Iowa said that it at least is done with Trump. "The Des Moines Register" writing this, "He has become," in their words, "the distraction with traction. A feckless blow hard who can generate headlines, name recognition, and polling numbers not by provoking thought but by provoking outrage. In five weeks, he has polluted the political waters to such an extent that serious candidates who actually have the credentials to serve as president can't get their message across to voters. You want to see this also from Trump."

He fired back just a short time ago with this, "'The Des Moines Register; has lost much circulation, advertising, and power over the last number of years. They will do anything for a headline, and this poorly written, non-endorsement got them some desperately needed ink."

Trump is set to appear within the hour at a rally in Bluffton, South Carolina.

Let's talk about the politics with chief political analyst, Gloria Borger; Ron Fournier, from the "National Journal" and Jeffrey Lord, who worked in the Reagan White House and is contributing editor for "The American Spectator."

I'm so excited, I'm getting all tongue tied.

(LAUGHTER)

Jeffrey, first to you about this "Des Moines Register" editorial board. It was scathing in what they said. Does "the Register" have a point here?

JEFFREY LORD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR: I have to say, this is just -- I would call this another dog bites man story. The "Des Moines Register" is a liberal paper. Joni Ernst, who is now the Republican Senator from Iowa, refused to meet with their editorial board because they were going to endorse her opponent. They endorsed President Obama. I think they finally got around endorsing to Mitt Romney, but that was the exception to the rule. This is exactly what you would expect for them and they have delivered.

BOLDUAN: So it doesn't worry defenders of Trump like yourself?

LORD: No, no, no. This is what they do, and I have to say, you know, Mr. Trump has gotten all kinds of criticism from people, although I have to say it's not the kind of criticism that Senator McCain himself received when he ran for president. And good lord, I have looked back, and my goodness, they were calling him literally a psycho, literally unstable and he pushed a woman in a wheelchair. All these stories about his temper. Nobody was defending John McCain then. Suddenly all these folks are very eager to defend him. So I just -- call me cynical here, but I think that there's a lot that's not really news here.

BOLDUAN: Gloria, there's a whole lot of news here. I will definitely tell you that, Jeffrey. Gloria, way tonight get your take on all of this and also, as Jeff was pointing out, a lot of people giving him criticism and defending John McCain. One of those people is his good friend, Lindsey Graham. He sat down with me last night and he didn't parse any words about what he thinks about Donald Trump at this point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: What he said about John I think was offensive. He's becoming a jackass at a time when we need to have a serious debate about the future of the party and the country. And all we're talking about a Donald Trump and everybody he insults, but he's crossed the line here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Do you think that he's crossed the line, Gloria, to the point that it's going to have an impact on Iowa caucus-goers?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: We honestly don't know the answer to that yet. You know, so far he's number two in the polls in Iowa. You talked earlier about "The Washington Post" poll. Part of it was taken after the Trump remarks. I think the thing you have to pay attention to here is the potency of the protest candidate, OK? The potency of the anti-establishment, anti-Washington, anti- politician protest candidate, and that is Donald Trump. A lot of people are paying attention to that because they want an insurgent to emerge from this huge and growing ranks of Republican candidates. Donald Trump is not likely, I believe, to end up as the horse they're going to ride, but I do think that his kind of outsider message is something that has an enormous amount of appeal to Republicans right now, and that's what's really driving him in the polls.

BOLDUAN: He just seems more motivated the more criticism he gets, Ron?

BORDER: Sure.

[11:10:00] BOLDUAN: Look at these poll numbers. He has a double digit lead in "The Washington Post"/ABC News poll. A lot of folks say they think he's a side show. I hear that at least once a day. You can't -- can you even call the man who is at the top with a double digit lead a side show anymore?

RON FOURNIER, NATIONAL JOURNAL: Well, you can call him accurately that he is a feckless blowhard. I think that is accurate, but he also does reflect the real and justified anger and dissatisfaction and disconnection that voters have with both parties. This is not just the Republican Party problem and it's not just a Donald Trump side show. This is an entire political process right now that is broken and is not dressing, much less fixing, the major problems of this country and there's a huge percentage of this country that really doesn't fit neatly into either party, doesn't like either party, even if they tend to vote straight tickets, and Trump is saying things that, whether we like to admit it or not, we're saying in the privacy of our own homes or hearing family members say things like our government is run by stupid people. Most Americans don't think all Mexicans are rapist. Most Americans honor the service of POWs, but many of the things Trump says speaks to people's dissatisfaction with the process. I would love to see a credible, authentic, honest, pragmatic candidate tap into that and not someone like Donald Trump.

BOLDUAN: Who else -- let's talk about -- whose phone keeps ringing?

Jeffrey, is that your phone? I'm going to reach in that Skype connection and shut that off for you.

When you talk about wanting a pragmatic candidate to come forward, Ron, Gloria, is that a John Kasich? He's going to be jumping into the race today. Where does he fit in this field?

BORGER: You know, John Kasich would tell you that he is the pragmatic alternative, that he is a popular governor of the state of Ohio who won re-election with 64 percent of the vote, appealed to 60 percent of women, 26 percent of minorities. No Republican has ever won the presidency without winning the state of Ohio. But John Kasich is having a lot of trouble getting any traction because all the oxygen in the room is going to Donald Trump. You know, the question is how --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Lindsey Graham told me the same thing. He said there's no oxygen in space for people to hear my message.

BORGER: Right. There's no downside aside from the fact that Lindsey Graham happens to be one of John McCain's closest friends, there's no downside for candidates in the single digits like Perry or Graham or even Kasich will see to take on Donald Trump. It's a way to get themselves on the stage. The candidates I think that are going to be interesting to pay attention to in that first debate are how Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker continue to deal with Donald Trump without dissing his supporters who Ron points out are very important right now in these Republican primaries.

BOLDUAN: Go ahead, Jeff.

LORD: One thing, yesterday -- and I think this is very important -- Rush Limbaugh spent a considerable portion of his show defending Donald Trump. He hasn't endorsed him or anything, but his point was that this was a teachable moment that conservatives, the base, are always seeing conservatives attacked and then, you know, the conservative sort of puts their tail between their legs and slinks off. And Donald Trump isn't doing this, and this is why in Rush's view this is such a teachable moment here because Donald Trump is standing up to that. And I would just suggest that that is a potent sort of force there for Rush's audience to hear and for Donald Trump supporters to hear. I mean, I think this is one of the reasons exactly why they like him. So the more he's attacked, conversely it helps him.

(CROSSTALK)

FOURNIER: I agree with that last point, but the problem with the theory is that the Republican field is filled with candidates who have stood up to anything other than a far right ideology. It's not just standing up that's taking people's notice. It's the fact again he's anti-establishment, that he's taken on the voice of people who think that government and politics isn't working. Back to Kasich, in a perfect world, the candidates with credentials Gloria has defined, in a perfect world, he would be a first tier candidate.

BOLDUAN: We're not in a perfect world then, right?

FOURNIER: We're not. It's not just the media soaking up the oxygen with Trump. It's the problems with money. You have to have a billionaire on your side. It's the problems with the weak parties now that can't get behind a very popular, very successful governor from Ohio that now it's being done in a very fragmented way. There are a lot of problems with our political system that lead to a period where right now we have a boom with a guy who is a feckless blowhard and we have a very successful governor who might not even get on the debate stage. That's a problem with our system.

BORGER: You know, and you also --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: Final note, Gloria.

BORGER: You also have a Republican party that is completely divided about what it wants. When you look at that "Washington Post" poll from last night, yes, Trump is leading, but over half of the Republicans polled said that Donald Trump did not represent their values. So, yes, he's in the lead, but, no, he doesn't represent their values. I think they're trying to figure it out. They're looking for a truth teller. It just depends what kind -- what version of the truth you happen to like if you're a Republican and there's a long way to go.

[02:15:30] BOLDUAN: And there is a long way to go. Not a long way to go before that first debate which will be interesting as John Kasich enters the race if he can make that debate stage but a long way to go before the first caucus voters start making their voices heard.

Gloria, Ron, Jeffrey, thank you guys so much.

LORD: Thanks.

BOLDUAN: So a reminder to all of you, we are watching three live events this hour. Donald Trump as we've been talking about is going to be facing reporters in South Carolina as he kicks off a rally. Ohio Governor John Kasich making it official, and President Obama speaking to veterans on a number of very big topics. We're watching it all. We'll bring it to you.

Plus this, breaking news involving another plot against American servicemen and women. This, just days after the shooting in Tennessee. Hear who is accused now.

And also a stunning new video surfaces of the first moments the riots broke out in Baltimore. Why did police hold back for so long? All of it caught on camera.

Stay here. This is CNN special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:20:07] BOLDUAN: New recordings have just been released from the Baltimore riots back in April. They show that, in fact, police were told to hold back from confronting rioters. This is new surveillance video of looters breaking store windows, torching police cars and businesses, and throwing bricks even at police. The rioting erupting, you will remember, hours after the funeral for Freddie Gray, the 25- year-old Baltimore man who died after suffering a severe spinal cord injury while in police custody. The video shows that, with the exception of an initial kind of incursion by a SWAT team, officers did not move in for nearly 90 minutes after the crowd had largely moved on.

The police radio calls that you are about to hear were made during the worst of that rioting.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: Attention all units, attention all units, I need all available northern units at one drive and one falls with your riot gear.

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: They're throwing at us.

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: We got hit with a brick. We're going to stand by here. I can't leave these officers here by themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: Hold the line. Do not go forward. Do not chase them.

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: There's a couple hundred people here.

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: I am not going to let my guys get hurt because we have equipment we're not using. (INAUDIBLE).

(END AUDIO FEED)

BOLDUAN: You can hear the intensity during kind of those chaotic moments. In the end, more than 150 officers were injured, hundreds of businesses were damaged. You saw just the rioting play out for hours and hours.

Brooke Baldwin is joining me.

Brooke, this was really important because you talked to two officers, and they talked about this moment kind of a flash point when they were told to hold back, to not move forward. How did they describe it? What do they say to you?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They did. What we're finally seeing in this video corroborates what those two officers were telling me. They agreed to sit with me and speak based upon a condition of anonymity. These are two active officers in the Baltimore Police Department. You hear "hold the line, hold the line." This is just backing up. This is the mall, broad daylight, afternoon, a bunch of 14, 15-year-olds getting out of school, tossing massive rocks into that's officers. It corroborates what you heard. They were told not to engage, to hold the line, meaning don't give up any ground. And they told me their terrified for their lives. Here they were.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: We were told to not engage. When I say not engage, to allow the people to throw whatever items were being thrown at us and just hold the line. That was the one thing we kept hearing all day, hold the line. So wherever the line moved to, that's what we did.

BALDWIN: What does that mean?

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: Just stand pat, hold the line. Don't move, don't give up any ground, don't back up.

BALDWIN: But don't engage?

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: Don't engage.

BALDWIN: Is that what the academy trained you? Is that what your gut instinct told you to do as well or were you having to hold back? You didn't want to hold back but you were being told from up the chain to hold back.

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: I think if they would have just allowed us to get the perpetrators that were instigating it, it would have de-escalated a whole lot quicker.

BALDWIN: Did that make you angry?

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: No. We were scared.

BALDWIN: You were scared?

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: Absolutely.

BALDWIN: What were you scared of?

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: Getting hit with a brick and possibly -- I mean, we've seen people in our profession hit with objects and never recover or become vegetables or die. And, you know, when people say rocks, you know, you think of pebbles that you throw and skip across water. No, we're talking broken pieces of cinder block, broken bricks with, you know, a quarter of a brick was being thrown at a time. Solve ball-sized pieces of brick that were coming towards us.

I guess the biggest issue is that, you know, that the upper command had advised, even the officers, to leave our protective equipment in the vehicles. Things escalate so fast that, you know, a riot helmet doesn't do an officer any good when it's in his patrol car four blocks away and because of the public perception --

BALDWIN: The optics of what a baton and a shield and a helmet would look like.

UNIDENTIFIED BALTIMORE POLICE OFFICER: Yes. They didn't want that. They wanted a softer and gentler police department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: So, you know, obviously, when I was talking to them multiple times I was pressing them, saying, as a police officer you are taking this oath to serve and protect, protect lives, protect homes, protect businesses which clearly were so totally damaged in these riots which is really the genesis of what we then saw in ensuing weeks and they were basically saying to me they broke that oath. They said in those first few minutes when, you know, you saw all those young people come out at them, they should have been allowed to take action immediately, you know, as in arrests, and they didn't, and so they acknowledged the oath was broken then.

[11:25:24] BOLDUAN: They think if he had done that it would have stopped things from escalating as quickly as it did. In the aftermath, the mayor fired the police commissioner.

BALDWIN: Right.

BOLDUAN: But do we see there have been changes put in place that would stop this from happening?

BALDWIN: Good question.

BOLDUAN: And has anyone pointed the finger at who is really at fault for making that call?

BALDWIN: I think there's a lot of this kind of finger pointing happening. As you mentioned, the police commissioner over all of this at the time, Anthony Batts, he's out. It's important to mention he sat down with Evan Perez, our justice correspondent, pretty soon after those riots and absolutely denied any of these allegations that he or any at the top of the chain told the officers to not engage, to hold the line. He said that absolutely wasn't true, although you see this video now coming out. He also though did say that some of his officers were ill prepared. He said that a lot of them didn't quite have the gear they should have. You know, bottom line, when you watch what happened in those days afterwards, that they weren't prepared, bottom line. As far as changes, concrete changes, it's a great question. I don't --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLDUAN: It doesn't seem it's happened.

BALDWIN: I don't have the answer to that yet. We know the interim police commissioner in Baltimore is asking for input on reorganizing the department. So input. And then the president of the United States has weighed in calling for social policy changes just to prevent any kind of rioting or looting that we saw in Baltimore from ever happening again.

BOLDUAN: Seems there needs to be some concrete changes though.

BALDWIN: Right.

BOLDUAN: Brooke, thanks so much.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: That interview, I keep watching it, and like hearing more and more of it.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, moments from now, President Obama will address a room full of veterans. We're waiting to hear what the president will say about the deaths of the four Marines and a sailor on American soil and we're going to bring you his comments live.

Plus, the crowded GOP presidential field getting a little more crowded, my friends. Ohio Governor -- key swing state -- Ohio Governor John Kasich minutes away from formally throwing his hat into the race for the White House. This, as Donald Trump gets ready to also face the media, always interesting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:56] BOLDUAN: One of the big moments we've been waiting for AT THIS HOUR. You see right there, governor of Ohio John Kasich has just taken the stage at Ohio State University, his alma mater, with his family to formally announce his intent to run for the Republican nomination for president. Let's listen in.

(APPLAUSE)

GOV. JOHN R. KASICH, R-OHIO: Wow. Huh? Wow.

Well, listen, standing here with me, of course, are the people who I've dedicated my life to: My sweet daughters, Emma and Reese Kasich.

You know, I remember when they were born -- remember that, sweetie?

(LAUGHTER) I kept saying to the doctor, "How's it going," you know, and he's trying to deliver two, and finally, he looks at me square in the eye, and he said, "Can you shut up? I'm a little busy right now."

(LAUGHTER)

And they came out, and I could hold them in the palm of my hand. It was so sweet.

And so I, along with Karen, have dedicated our lives to giving them a better life than we were able to ever get from our parents. And you know what? They're doing fantastic. Emma and Reese Kasich.

(APPLAUSE)

And my wife, pray for her. She's married to me, OK?

(LAUGHTER)

KASICH: From the very tips of my toes to the top of my head, I just love my wife so much.

[11:30:05] Such a greater partner...

(APPLAUSE)

... and such a great lady.