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At This Hour
Drones Get Dangerously Close to Jets; Manhunt for Cop killer in Memphis; Joe Biden Considering White House Run; Baltimore Asks for Federal Help to Rein in Unprecedented Violence. Aired 11-11:30a ET
Aired August 03, 2015 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00] POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much for being with me today. I'm Poppy Harlow. Carol Costello is back tomorrow.
AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts now.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A new close call in the skies. For the third time in days, a drone gets dangerously close to a passenger jet. And just now the government sends a bulletin warning these drones could be used as terrorist weapons.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The search for a coward. That's what the police director says. A manhunt is under way for the person who shot and killed an officer during a traffic stop.
BERMAN: And you think the Republican debates will be interesting? Try Hillary Clinton versus Joe Biden. Why the vice president is considering a run and how he would shake up the entire race.
Hello, everybody. I'm John Berman.
BOLDUAN: I'm Kate Bolduan.
We'll begin this hour with new fears this morning at one of the nation's busiest airports. A drone coming alarmingly close to a passenger jet, and it happened at New York's JFK Airport last night, and that is the third such incident in just the past three days at JFK.
BERMAN: And breaking just minutes ago, Homeland Security sent a bulletin to law enforcement across the country warning that drones could be used as terrorist weapons.
All three close calls happened as the airplanes were landing at that incredibly busy hub. Federal officials now investigating.
Jean Casarez has the very latest for us.
Jean, what can you tell us?
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Along with the new information from the Department of Homeland Security, it also cites other risks. And the concern is because of these three drone sightings in the last three days by commercial aircraft, all on approach to JFK Airport in New York City, now the big question for authorities is who is doing this and why? The latest one, as you said, was last night. It was the crew of shuttle America flight 5911 from Richmond, Virginia. They reported an unmanned aircraft off the left side of its embracing E-145 aircraft as it was landing at JFK. Now, on Friday two flights once again landing at JFK spotted drones close to their aircraft. The first one, according to the FAA, JetBlue flight 1843 noted a drone at 2:24 p.m. when approaching the airport. The cockpit audio recording obtained by CNN says the drone passed just below the plane's nose when the jetliner was flying 800 to 900 feet. The next one on Friday, 5:00 p.m., Delta flight 407 was once again preparing to land at JFK when the cockpit reported seeing a drone under its right wing.
Now, we were just able to obtain the cockpit audio from last night, the third drone sighting. Let's listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
PILOT: There's a drone at the edge of the runway.
TOWER: Location, please?
PILOT: Roll out of behind this perimeter 5911.
TOWER: How close?
PILOT: 30 feet.
TOWER: Left or right?
PILOT: Left side. Little black quadcopter.
TOWER: Flight 5911, continue straight ahead on Bravo and monitor ground to the left.
PILOT: Bravo. That drone is on the edge of the runway.
TOWER: Say again.
PILOT: That drone is on the edge of the runway.
(END AUDIO FEED)
CASAREZ: The FAA is saying, in general, across the country, it gets about two reports per day from pilots saying they spotted an unmanned aerial vehicle, but once again the Department of Homeland Security bulletin is saying this is concerning because drones conceivably, they say, can be exploited as terrorist weapons along with the other risks involved -- John, Kate?
BERMAN: Jean Casarez, thanks so much.
I want to bring in CNN aviation analyst, Les Abend. He's a pilot and contributing editor of "Flying Magazine." And Les just flew out of JFK. Also with us, our aviation correspondent and host of "Quest Means Business," Richard Quest.
Let me start with you.
There are idiots who will fly zones near airports and then there's also this possibility of something nefarious going on. But I want the pilot's perspective as you're taking off or landing. What could a drone do for you in flight?
LES ABEND, CNN AVIATION ANALYST & PILOT & CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, FLYING MAGAZINE: From my perspective, we're dealing with all sorts of environmental issues from weather to now laser sightings, now drones. We can only focus, you know, on so much, but take off and landing is critical. We generally on takeoff it's a very critical time. We're accelerating very quickly. You know, for us to with a high angle of attack, is what we call it, the nose is way up there. For us to see something, it's difficult. Approach and landing is difficult. That's where this incident occurred. We can bank the airplane and avoid it the best we can but we're stabilizing our approach and it's difficult at those slow speeds. We don't have a lot of margin for error.
That being said, what can happen, you can impact the wind stream. We do have heated windshields so it does have some elasticity. We heat it for birds and for various other things mostly for window heat for icing situations but it could crack it and reduce the visibility. In the engine, depending upon the material the drone is made out of, it could ingest into the engine and possibly cause an engine failure. We're trained to handle engine failures but flight control is another issue. We're talking mass times velocity. That's the formula for momentum. You know, the bigger the particular object and the faster it's going, the more damage it's going to do.
[11:05:33] BOLDUAN: There are rules that are supposed to keep drones from getting close to a plane and anywhere near an airport. There are rules that are in place. Clearly, the same thing with lasers. People aren't following the rules. But what is the flying industry saying or what does the flying industry want to do about it because the use of drones is only growing.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS: Right. So you have two competing issues here.
BOLDUAN: Right.
QUEST: You have the drone community, who say it's a recreational hobby, we enjoy flying them, and on the other side, you have the aviation industry, and you have the rules no higher than 400 feet, no closer than five miles to an airport. But if you listen to the latest incident, they're talking about at the runway edge at 80 feet or 30 feet or whatever it was, so you're talking about somebody flying a drone on the other side of the fence. Now, how you deter that -- I mean, you can do it with security cameras, you can do it with guards, you can do it -- but you really can't. You're talking about people showing common sense, and you're talking about the drone community, who have put up a very vociferous argument for being continued to allow to fly these things in a variety of circumstances.
BERMAN: Unless you protect some of the air space around the airport. QUEST: It's protected already. It's protected already. That's the
point. You're not supposed to be flying drones within five miles of an airport under 400 feet.
BERMAN: It's illegal what they're doing?
ABEND: The radio control folks have been around for years, 50 years -- they've been responsible enough. These are airplane-type models that they fly very responsibly and they know this rule.
QUEST: The difference is to fly a radio controlled plane is quite difficult. It's actually challenging.
ABEND: It does take a skill.
QUEST: It takes a skill to take it off and land it. So you've got people who are absolutely steeped in aviation.
BOLDUAN: Drones are different?
QUEST: Drones are different. You buy it at Walmart, you send it up in the air, and you see what you can do with it, and anybody can fly them. And that's what you're seeing. That's why -- you don't have these cases of radio controlled planes going near airports, but you're having them with drones, and unless somebody starts getting serious, well, dot, dot, dot, will happen.
BOLDUAN: It looks like DHS is getting serious. They're putting out this bulletin --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: They're warning -- DHS is warning because of terrorism and --
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: Right, that's one of the risks. That's the road you walk down, right?
QUEST: But that's an entirely different ball of wax.
BOLDUAN: Than just getting in the way of a plane? Yeah.
QUEST: Yes, yeah. That's a very --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Dumb and evil are two different things, but dumb might be dangerous enough, is what you're saying, Richard Quest, right?
QUEST: That's very well put.
BERMAN: You like that?
QUEST: I do.
BOLDUAN: I have never seen Richard speechless.
QUEST: Not speechless. Not speechless.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BERMAN: Mark this down, folks. History made.
Les Abend, Richard Quest, thanks for being here.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Happening now, an intense manhunt under way for an alleged cop killer in Memphis. CNN has just received audio of a frantic police call on police radio seconds after the shooting.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 487 Summer Lane, 487 Summer Lane. He's shot.
911 OPERATOR: Officer is shot? (INAUDIBLE) Now advise officer down in front of the location. (INAUDIBLE) at this time. 3-3-6 Delta, are you on the scene with 3-6-4 Delta.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) The subject bolted out.
911 OPERATOR: Checking, you are advising that the officer is down or the suspect?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call the ambulance! Call the ambulance!
(END AUDIO FEED)
BOLDUAN: The slain officer is Sean Bolton, a former Marine who served in Iraq, killed here at home. Police are now looking for a Tremaine Wilbourn. He faces a first-degree murder charge and he is on the run and said to be armed and dangerous.
Nick Valencia has been following this and has many more of the details.
What more do we know about this horrific incident?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, there, Kate. I just got off the phone with the head of the police union there in Memphis, and he tells me that the U.S. Marshals have now joined this very aggressive manhunt for 29-year-old Tremaine Wilbourn, the suspect of the murder of Sean Bolton, a five-year veteran of the Memphis Police Force. We understand Bolton noticed Wilbourn and another man in a car parked illegally. He approached the men. That's when Wilbourn is said to have gotten out of the car and a struggle ensued, eventually leaving Bolton shot multiple times. You heard on that difficult-to-hear police audio that local residents heard what happened. They ran to the scene, tried to use Officer Bolton's radio to get in touch with 911 dispatch to let them know a police officer had been shot, but it was simply too late. Bolton was transferred to the hospital where he was pronounced dead.
Last night, a very tragic press conference by the head of the Memphis police talking about the loss of this man's life.
[11:10:35] TONEY ARMSTRONG, DIRECTOR, MEMPHIS POLICE SERVICES: Last night, we lost not only an officer but a great man, a dedicated servant to our community and a family member.
VALENCIA: Armstrong went on to say at a press conference on Saturday night that in the last four years, three Memphis police officers have been gunned down in the line of duty.
To add to this horrific tragedy, we understand from the head of the police union that Bolton's own father had died recently, so the Bolton family was still grieving from that, only now to be mourning the death of this 33-year-old man -- Kate, John?
BERMAN: Just awful.
Nick Valencia, thanks so much.
VALENCIA: You bet, guys.
BERMAN: All right. If President Obama's vice president and his former secretary of state both want the White House, does the president endorse? Joe Biden right now considering a run. We'll speak with someone who just left the White House inner circle.
BOLDUAN: Months after the riots in Baltimore, violence in that city still out of control. The murder rate hitting a 40-year high, and police are now calling in federal agents to help.
And a new turn in the hunt for more debris that could belong to the missing flight 370. Hear where investigators are looking now. And the moment everyone is waiting for, confirmation a piece of the wreckage has been found, that could come at any moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:15:18] BERMAN: The political world is upside down this morning with the word that Vice President Joe Biden is at least considering a run for the White House and against his friend and former administration mate, Hillary Clinton.
BOLDUAN: The pressure is building. A close adviser of Biden's late son, Beau, he has joined the Draft Biden super PAC. And that's just one thing. And "The New York Times" is reporting that Beau Biden, who passed away in May, he pleaded with his father to run for president once again.
Joining us to discuss, senior Washington correspondent, Jeff Zeleny; and CNN political commentator and former senior adviser to President Obama, Dan Pfeiffer.
Great to see you both. So, Jeff, you have been reporting on this on the conversations, the
fact that Biden is still considering it. What is the latest that you're hearing right now?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kate. We know that Vice President Joe Biden is keeping his options open. One adviser told me that anyone who thinks he's made his mind up simply is wrong. He has not made up his mind. He's keeping his options open, and he's extending his window a little bit. A few months ago we thought early august was the time frame when he would make his decision. I'm told he's moved that back a little bit. It could be in September, perhaps even slightly beyond that but not much beyond that, and he's simply observing what's happening in the Democratic field and, you know, seeing what the possibilities are. There's definitely a part of Biden world, let's call it that, his constellation of advisers, who would like to see him run. There is definitely a segment of them who would, and the voices we're hearing now the loudest are from them, but it's political reality also sets in that it is a difficult road at this point if he were to jump in. So we shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves here, but it is significant to note he is still at least thinking about it.
BERMAN: Dan Pfeiffer, I don't want to put you on the spot but I want to put you on the spot. You're not that far removed from the White House. You run in these circles. This morning, David Axelrod says he doesn't think Biden is going to do it. I want to know, yes or no, handicapped, do you think he's getting in.
DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT: I think Jeff is right. I don't think he's made up his mind. I don't know that for certain. Whether he gets in or not, I don't really know. If he does he would be a legitimate candidate but Jeff makes another point that may weigh on him, Hillary Clinton is well ahead of him not just in the polls but the organizational work you have to do. She has been organizing Iowa and New Hampshire while he hasn't been involved in the political scene at all. This is very challenging. He certainly has more than earned the right to run if he chooses to do it, but it would be a hard piece of business I think.
BOLDUAN: Also, maybe put President Obama in a hard place. You're talking about a hard piece of business, because he's going to be hounded by questions if Biden would get in, about Hillary, about Biden.
You were a former adviser to the president. I want to get your take on what you would advise him to do. Because the White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest was asked about Biden this morning, and Josh started out saying he has been a terrific vice president, and then he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And I think there are a lot of people in Washington, D.C., that if -- certainly, a lot of Democrats -- that if he made that decision, that they would be honored to work with him. But the fact is we've got some great candidates on the Democratic side already, but ultimately, each of the candidates will have to make up their own minds about whether or not they want to be a candidate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Josh has to stay noncommittal and dance and say as little as he possibly can, but what do you advise the president to do?
PFEIFFER: What I would tell the president to say, if this fantasy of the press were to come true and he would have Biden and Clinton running against each other, I would have the president say he doesn't get involved in Democratic primaries, period, full stop, and change the subject, because that is the traditional role for the president. The more he talks about this, the more anyone talks about it, the harder it will be so short and sweet and get out of dodge.
BERMAN: Just run and hide.
(LAUGHTER)
Jeff Zeleny, you mentioned the phrase Biden world, but let's talk about Biden world because Joe Biden has run for president twice, once he dropped out early and then eight years ago he got less than 1 percent in Iowa. He's from a small state, Delaware, there's no machine, Democratic machine there. I mean, is there, you know, is there any giant national apparatus to back a Biden campaign?
ZELENY: Well, half of the Democratic Delaware machine is on our screen. Dan Pfeiffer is from Delaware, so maybe he could better answer that. But I think, look, you make a really good point, John. The reality is at this point a lot of the talent is sort of scooped up, but not all of it. He has been in public life for so long, first as a Senator for 36 years and as you said he did run for president a couple different times. So if he would decide to run, I think he would be able to get the strategist and the apparatus out there.
The question I have is fund-raising. Presidential campaigns are so expensive right now. If he wanted to go to Iowa or he wanted to go to New Hampshire, he has no fund-raising apparatus at this point. But that is one of the reasons that one of the former advisers of Beau Biden is joining this super PAC movement just to see what support is out there. So I think it is too late for anyone to jump in except Joe Biden. He's one exception because he's universally known, of course. So it's possible. But, boy, the clock is sure sort of expiring here for him to compete with Hillary Clinton. But the big question is Hillary Clinton's favorables are not good. People have questions about her standing, so that's fueling this.
[11:20:52] BOLDUAN: And, Dan, you said it was a press or media fantasy that they would run against each other. It's not just a fantasy because someone, let's be honest, within Biden world is allowing this story to continue and they are at least considering it. They're allowing that narrative to get out there.
PFEIFFER: Right, absolutely. I only say fantasy in the sense that --
BOLDUAN: I know.
PFEIFFER: -- the press would love a competitive Democratic primary and Biden versus Hillary would be a great story. It would be a great story for any political journalist to watch. But I do agree with Jeff though that if the president were -- the vice president were to decide to run, he would be able to recruit the talent he would need to do that. There's a lot of people in Obama world, if you will, who have not yet signed up with a candidate who have tremendous loyalty to the vice president, because of the loyalty the vice president has they have to President Obama so I think he would be able to put together a top notch campaign staff quickly.
BERMAN: Do you think Obama people would flock to Biden? Is that what you're saying, Dan?
PFEIFFER: I think some certainly will. Many of them work for Secretary Clinton, you know, like Jennifer Palmary (ph), but there are a lot of Obama people without a candidate yet, and I think many of them would OK the opportunity to work for Vice President Biden again.
BOLDUAN: Jeff, Dan, thanks, guys.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the deadliest month in Baltimore in more than 40 years. Violence there reaching a point that the city is calling in federal agents to try and help. You're going to hear what they're going to do.
BERMAN: Plus, evacuations under way. Families leaving homes behind as flames spread in what is being called a tinderbox. We'll take you there live. Look at those pictures.
BOLDUAN: And forget Thursday's big debate. Tonight, more than a dozen Republican candidates under the same roof for one crucial event. We will ask the man running it all how he plans to deal with Donald Trump.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:26:06] BOLDUAN: This morning, Baltimore is getting federal help to try and rein in what's being called unprecedented violence there. The city is coming off its deadliest month in more than 40 years. 45 homicides in the month of July and -- listen to this -- 191 for the year so far.
BERMAN: Goodness. Now, 10 federal agencies, from the FBI, DEA, ATF, Secret Service and U.S. Marshal Service, will help city homicide detectives. They will be there for the next couple months. The interim commissioner says these are the boots on the ground the city needs. Can they really make a difference?
Joining us to talk about this, Edward Norris, Baltimore's former police commissioner.
Thank you for being with us, sir. Do you really think a handful, a couple handfuls of federal agents and
officers coming in are going to turn things around?
EDWARD NORRIS, FORMER BALTIMORE POLICE COMMISSIONER: No, I don't actually. It's a step in the right direction. You can always use the help, and the resources are tremendous, but this is not the answer.
BOLDUAN: What's the role and the relationship when they come in? John listed out all of the agencies that would be coming in to help. What's the role and relationship then with the Baltimore police? How is it going to work do you think?
NORRIS: I don't know but I'm assuming -- I looked at the list of agencies coming in, the Secret Service, the Marshal Service, FBI, DEA. We all know what roles they play but I think they're going to use them, the vast resources, tremendous money, and specific knowledge. But the fact is you don't solve the crimes after they happen. They need to be prevented. And that's not what they're going to be doing here. These murders need to be prevented before they actually occur. And this is not just the most violent month since 1972. You have to keep in mind, the number is the same, 45 murders, but the city is a third smaller now than it was. So it's much more violent per capita.
BERMAN: Everyone I hear from in Baltimore is just up in arms over this. They are incredibly distraught. The same community leaders, who were so active in helping calm things down after the riots there in Baltimore, spending every day to try to make a difference there. I'm curious what you think. They got rid of the police commissioner there. What more can you do?
NORRIS: Well, you're going to have to win back the confidence of the police department because -- no one wants to speak the truth about this. The fact is the police are not stopping people the way they were because they're afraid to. They feel they're not supported by the government here, the politicians, the prosecutor, the mayor's office, people like that. If they're not going to stop people proactively, people are much more willing to carry guns and shoot each other. That's the bottom line. Solving after the fact is nice, but that's not what you want.
BOLDUAN: Now, the current police commissioner, he kind of described this setup as flipping the script of sorts, kind of trying something new to try to quell this violence. But when you look at it, the fact they're now having to ask the feds to come in to help them out, does this tell you they've completely lost control?
NORRIS: No, I think what he means by flip the script, usually police officer go out to federal agencies to work in partnerships. This is unusual to have them work inside the police department. I think he's trying to think outside the box because things are extremely violent and desperate times call for desperate measure. No one can. Especially not the police commissioner can't speak about this, because he works for a mayor and there's a city council. But I speak to officers every day in this town. They don't feel supported and when you don't feel supported, they're not going to do things the way they did them before by getting out of the car and stopping people. It's easier to be the third car on the scene than the first in a climate like this, and that's how they feel.
BERMAN: You're saying it's a choice? It's a choice that officers are making that's leading to this surge in murders in Baltimore?
NORRIS: Absolutely, positively. And people don't want to hear it, but of course, it's a choice. It's a very unusual job. How many jobs are there when you leave in the morning you don't know if you're coming home at night? They do get killed in the line of duty, and in this city, more frequently than many. Unfortunately, you have to convince them they're doing the best they can every day. If they don't feel that and they feel unsupported, they're not going to be as aggressive. They all have families and have homes to protect. They don't want to be subject to unnecessary lawsuits and arrests and things like that.
