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At This Hour

North Korea Puts Troops into "Wartime State"; Teen Killed by Police Died from Shot to Back; Bush, Trump, Unapologetic Over "Anchor Babies". Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired August 21, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Freaky.

Thanks for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

AT THIS HOUR with Berman and Bolduan starts now.

[11:00:20] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: On the brink of war. The most unpredictable dictator in the world telling his troops get ready for the worst as North and South Korea face off.

A city on edge. His death sparked violent protests this week in St. Louis and now, we're hearing the black teenager killed by police was shot in the back. We'll take you there live.

And one is a socialist, the other is, well, Donald Trump, and today they could both see record crowds as voters speak out against the establishment.

(MUSIC)

BROWN: Hello. I'm Pamela Brown, in for John and Kate. Great to have you along with us on this Friday.

And we begin with the most erratic, eccentric dictator in the world now preparing for war. North Korean leader Kim Jong-un has ordered his front line forces to move into war footing after an exchange of fire with South Korea across their heavily fortified border. The dictator has given the South until 4:00 a.m. Eastern Time to stop blasting anti-Pyongyang propaganda over loud speakers near the border. Pentagon officials are carefully monitoring this escalation.

For more on this, let's bring in CNN's Kathy Novak right near the DMZ, the demilitarized zone there. And Victor Cha, a deputy negotiator at six-party talks in 2006.

And, Kathy, I'm going to start with you. Kim Jong-un has issued threats in the past. So, why is this such a big deal now?

KATHY NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's true, Pamela, he has issued threats in the past and it has come at around this time of year. That's when the annual exercises take place between the United States and South Korea when they hold joint military drills. We know that makes Kim Jong-un very angry and we did indeed see threats coming out of Pyongyang over the weekend to attack the U.S. mainland because of those drills.

But what seems to be different this time is it's happening tame as another thing that is angering Kim Jong-un and that's the presumption of psychological warfare for the first time in more than ten years from South Korea. As you mentioned, South Korea is using large loud speakers along the border with North Korea to broadcast anti-regime messages.

Now, remember, this is North Korea. Kim Jong-un likes to control all the messages that go into the ears of his own citizens. It's a place where saying anything bad about the leader is tantamount to treason. And Pyongyang is saying that it sees the resumption of the psychological warfare basically as an act of war. And as you mentioned, it's given South Korea until tomorrow to stop or says it will take military action.

But South Korea is not stepping back. It says it will continue these propaganda messages, and it is preparing for the high possibility that North Korea will attack the speakers and target them when this deadline approaches tomorrow and here is what South Korea has to say, "If North Korea continues on provoking our military as we have already warned, we'll respond sternly and end the evil provocation of North Korea. South Korea is in the process of working closely with the United States."

And we know that the United States is monitoring the situation closely, Pamela.

BROWN: OK. Thank you so much, Kathy.

And, Victor, I want to go to you. We heard in Kathy's report there that North Korea is threatening military action if South Korea doesn't shut down the loud speakers by 4:00 a.m. Eastern Time. Do you buy it this time? We have heard threats before from Kim Jong-un against South Korea or do you actually think this time could be real?

VICTOR CHA, FORMER DIRECTOR, ASIA AFFAIRS ADVISER, WHITE HOUSE: Well, I do think the situation is framed right now in such a way that neither side can back down. It's a classic game of chicken. Something else that's different this time is that the North Koreans sent a direct message to the South Korean national security adviser delivering this ultimatum.

My understanding is that they haven't done that sort of thing in the past. They've certainly passed messages between militaries, and, you know, again, the content of the broadcasting I think is quite -- the North Koreans are quite sensitive to that because it directly attacks the leadership of North Korea and this leadership is insecure and unstable.

BROWN: And like you said, it's doubtful that South Korea will back down. We know that the U.S. is monitoring the situation closely. What does this mean for the U.S. if a war does break out?

CHA: Well, certainly nobody wants to see a war break out, and the United States and South Korea have created what's called a counter provocations plan. There's always been a plan to deal with a second North Korean invasion.

[11:05:00] But over the past decades, the North Korean belligerence has largely been in the form of actions short of all-out war, sort of gray zone areas. So, the U.S. has created plans to deal with these sort of things. So, when the land mine blast occurred August 4th that hurt two South Korean soldiers, the non-kinetic response were the resumption of these loud speaker broadcasts. So, that was meant to be sort of, I think, a moderated response to what was an action by the North Koreans clearly in violation of the armistice.

So, from a U.S. perspective, obviously, we don't want to see the situation escalate. At the same time, we don't want the North Koreans to feel like they can act with impunity along the DMZ.

BROWN: And let's talk about Kim Jong-un, the leader in North Korea. He's been known to be predictable. And do you think part of this just conflict theater, a way to gain international attention versus actually wanting to be in the middle of conflict?

CHA: Well, I think it's more -- I think that's right, but I also think it's more a direct reflection of the difficulties he's having in running the country. He's still purging and executing high- level officials four years into his time in office, which is not the sign of a good power transition.

North Korean society is becoming very slowly more and more open. Outside information is getting in.

And the regime is not able to govern effectively. There's still a terrible food problem, the economy is a mess, and this leader basically spends all of his money on building amusement parks and ski resorts and nuclear weapons and not taking care of the people.

So, overall, it's not a good situation, and the regime I think knows that the leadership is having trouble, and that's why they're so hypersensitive to these sorts of broadcasts that directly attack the legitimacy of the regime.

BROWN: Victor Cha, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

And now let's turn to politics and the 2016 presidential race and two men who aren't exactly mainstream candidates but are drawing crowds like rock stars. Democrat Bernie Sanders is making his first swing through South Carolina as a candidate. His rally in Greenville is getting started right now and he'll be in Columbia later today. And a rally tomorrow in Charleston has been moved to a bigger venue to accommodate more people.

And then, of course, there's Donald Trump. There was so much interest in his rally tonight in Mobile, Alabama, that organizers moved it to the 40,000-seat college football stadium where the go daddy bowl is played.

So, let's bring in CNN's Athena Jones for more on this. She's following the latest campaign news from Manchester, New Hampshire.

Athena, are we expecting to see the same crowds for Sanders in South Carolina as we have been seeing elsewhere like Iowa?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Pamela. Probably not. This is not the most liberal state. I can't see the pictures that you guys are able to see, but "The Washington Post" is reporting that as of yesterday at least about 2,100 people had RSVP'd for this event going on right now. And like I said, South Carolina not a liberal state, they have only one Democrat in their entire congressional delegation.

But as you mentioned, Sanders right now holds the record for the largest political crowd of the 2016 presidential contest so far. He drew about 28,000 people to a rally in Portland, Oregon, just a couple weeks ago. That was an NBA arena.

Now, of course, if Donald Trump's rally tonight gets as many people as they're expecting, he will set a new record. I believe the latest update we have from his campaign is that 42,000 people have RSVP'd for tonight's event. So that will be quite a big one -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right. Let's talk about Donald Trump and Jeb Bush because the latest polls show that Trump is leading Bush in Florida. Of course, that is a state that Bush governed for eight years and now he's getting some help from his family, is that right?

JONES: That's right, and this is really interesting. I asked Bush yesterday why it is that Trump is leading him in his own state of Florida in the new Quinnipiac poll, and he said, look, I'm beating Hillary Clinton in Florida, Trump is losing to her. So, there you have it.

But that's even not true. Trump is actually leading Clinton in that poll in Florida as well. And as you mentioned, he's now pulling out some of the big guns from his family. He's getting some fund- raising help from his brother, the former President George W. Bush. He sent an e-mail blast to supporters, calling for them -- telling them Jeb has a tough road ahead but with his strength and their support, he will succeed.

And then later this fall, George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush, also are presidents, are going to be holding a fund-raiser, hosting a fund-raiser for Jeb Bush in Houston. That's in October. So, he's got some big fund-raising events on the calendar -- Pamela.

JONES: All right. Athena Jones, thank you so much for wrapping it up for us. We appreciate it.

BROWN: A fiery debate erupting over the term anchor babies. Jeb Bush and Donald Trump unapologetic for using it, others calling it a racist slur.

[11:10:02] We'll debate.

Plus, a city on edge. His death sparked violent protests this week in St. Louis and now we're hearing the teen killed by police was shot in the back. We'll take you there live.

And moments from now history in the making. For the first time ever, two women will become Army Ranger graduates after one of the most grueling boot camps that exist.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: New this morning, authorities in St. Louis now confirming to CNN police shot a black teenager in the back killing him. An autopsy shows the 18-year-old died from that wound. Police say he pointed a gun at officers.

St. Louis, of course, is just a few miles from Ferguson where accusations of police brutality have caused a ripple effect throughout the country.

Let's bring in now CNN's Ryan Young in St. Louis.

Ryan, what more do we know about the circumstances surrounding this young man's death?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, people are very agitated about this. The 18-year-old was apparently in the neighborhood visiting friends. In fact, we just last hour -- we talked to his attorney, and they are saying that he was not at the house where police were serving the search warrant. They also believe that witnesses say he did not have a gun when he started running from the officers.

He says they were two plainclothes officers, they didn't know they were police officers. People in the neighborhood are saying they didn't even hear them scream police. So, after this happened, the neighborhood gets very upset and, in fact, they have a small riot that night where people were throwing rocks and bottles and setting cars on fire.

BROWN: So, Ryan --

YOUNG: In fact -- OK.

(CROSSTALK)

[11:15:01] YOUNG: The only reason -- Antonio French has joined us who is the councilman from this area. He just walked up so we wanted to fit this in.

Look, obviously, people were upset again that something has happened in the neighborhoods.

ANTONIO FRENCH, ST. LOUIS CITY ALDERMAN: Right.

YOUNG: What are you telling people right now in terms of staying calm, especially with the new information?

FRENCH: Yes, it's important we be patient. There's an investigation going on. There will be a second investigation by the circuit attorney and this is St. Louis City, so you have folks on the city council who do have the backs of the community and we'll make sure that we'll get to the truth. It just takes a little time.

YOUNG: OK. So, we talked to his lawyer today. He says he did not have a gun. He was shot in the back. When people in the neighborhood hear this, it's not -- it may not go well tonight when people get this extra bit of information.

FRENCH: You know, it's a volatile situation we have right now. Still a lot of emotion and people are still very upset other the events of the last year. And so, you know, it's important for us to maintain calm and for folks to know this is a different situation. In this jurisdiction, we do have people who have your back. We're going to try to get to the truth. We might even launch a special subcommittee at the board of alderman to examine this and other police involved shootings.

YOUNG: But is this word filtering to the neighborhoods? I can tell there are people who are angry and they hear these details and they may not want to hear from police headquarters anymore. Who is standing in between police officers and the community at this point?

FRENCH: Well, we are. So I'm out there in the evenings along with other folks, other aldermen, members of the clergy and we're trying to keep folks calm right now. And what we know is we want to fix this situation. We don't want to see these young people keep getting killed, and so, it's going to take some change.

But the atmosphere of violence does not allow for the kind of conversations we need to have. So, violence is not helping the situation.

YOUNG: I think I have to mention this, there's a fact that a 9- year-old girl was killed in Ferguson and people are wondering why there was no marching for that.

FRENCH: There was marching, though.

YOUNG: Go ahead. Tell me about it.

FRENCH: There was marching for that. There was a huge event yesterday, and actually it was a beautiful event because you had both protesters, members of the Ferguson police department, even the mayor. These are folks who are politically at each other's -- at odds, but they came together to support that family in this difficult time.

So, there has been beautiful events. Unfortunately, they don't get the same media coverage as violence and fires, but there have been a lot of activities surrounding the violence and the normal violence in communities.

YOUNG: But how hurt were you when you saw the fires in this community and the fact that now you have people throwing rocks at police officers. You have a conversation that completely changes from healing to all of a sudden wounds are reopened again.

FRENCH: Yes. It was disappointing. We find ourselves one step forward, two steps back it seems sometimes. So, you know, we just have to keep moving forward and luckily the violence that happened two nights ago did not carry over to last night and hopefully the new details that came out today will not erupt into violence tonight and we're going to be out there tonight to make sure it doesn't.

YOUNG: But you speak to so many people right now. The idea when they hear he was shot in the back, when you hear the family and some witnesses contend he did not have a gun, what can you say to them right now so that tonight can maybe be peaceful?

FRENCH: Well, when I was out there hours after the young man was killed, you know, I heard a lot of different stories, so we don't know exactly what happened. And so, we just have to take everything with a grain of salt that's coming out from the police department and from others and let the investigation carry its course. I think the family has a couple good attorneys that will try to get their side out. But it's important that folks understand that the atmosphere of violence does not help move this issue forward.

YOUNG: OK. I really thank you for running over here and getting on with us. He walked up right as we were getting ready to do this.

But here's the idea -- everyone is worried about tonight, especially with this new information out, the fact there is that autopsy report that's been released where the young man was shot in the back. The family's attorney is contending the young man could not have run as far as police saying that he did. So, there will be a lot of conversations within this community over the next 24 hours.

BROWN: Yes, and a lot of unanswered questions right now.

Ryan Young, Antonio French, thank you so much.

A Florida deputy is in critical condition after being shot in the line of duty. Police say the officer was trying to make an arrest last night in Brevard County. Police say they were involved in a prostitution investigation when a man at the scene ambushed them. Police returned fire, shooting the suspect who is now in stable condition.

Well, some say it's a racist slur. Others like Donald Trump and Jeb Bush say, sorry, we're saying anchor babies. We're going to debate this, coming up.

Plus, police say two men beat up a homeless man because they are inspired by Donald Trump. Now, the billionaire is responding.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It has become a hot button term in the presidential race, anchor babies. It's used to describe children born to noncitizens of the U.S. where citizenship is a birthright and seen as a way for other family members to secure legal residency. But many Americans find the term offensive, especially Latinos and Donald Trump is catching flack for using it. Now Jeb Bush is, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, do you regret using the term "anchor babies" yesterday on the radio?

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I didn't. I don't. I don't regret it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't?

BUSH: No, do you have a better term?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not -- I'm asking you.

BUSH: You give me a better term, and I'll use it. I'm serious. Don't yell at me behind my ear, though. Geez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry about that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The language "anchor baby," is that not bombastic?

BUSH: No, it isn't. Give me another word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Trump tweeted this, quote, "Jeb Bush signed memos saying not to use the term anchor babies, offensive. Now he wants to use it because I use it. Stay true to yourself."

One GOP candidate not using it, Senator Marco Rubio. He said he calls these children human beings.

CNN political commentators Ben Ferguson and Maria Cardona join us now to talk about it. Maria is also a Democratic strategist.

So, Trump was referring to Bush's advisory role for a Hispanic leadership group. The group advised conservatives, quote, not to use this term. It's not clear if Bush signed any memo as Trump claims.

But regardless, Ben, in your opinion, does Bush need to worry about alienating Hispanic voters by using this term?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think he needs to worry more about being honest with what's really going on, and this is a political correctness gone to crazy land.

There is such a thing as an anchor baby. It's been around for a long time. It's been okay to say.

Then you have people who say if you use it you're racist. The fact of the matter is there are people who come into this country from not just Mexico, all over the world, that actually do come here specifically to have a child that will anchor them in this country.

[11:25:03] And that seems to be what he was implying yesterday.

But don't flip-flop on it. If you're going to say it, his biggest liability now is somehow backing away from it, and I think Donald Trump actually -- this is why people like him. He's not afraid to have the blunt conversation.

We do have a problem with anchor babies. It doesn't mean that it's negative towards the child. It's negative, if anything, towards the parent that is doing it and manipulating the system to their advantage on purpose.

BROWN: All right. Maria, I see you shaking your head there. Set the stage for us though in the Latino community. What is their reaction to this? Why is this term so offensive?

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: This term is incredibly offensive, Pam, because it actually legitimizes the dehumanization of our most vulnerable, of our most innocent, of children who, by the way, per the Constitution are U.S. citizens. And, in fact, people who use this term and who use it in a derogatory manner don't necessarily differentiate between the children of legal residents here, legal citizens even in some cases, and those who are undocumented.

And that is why blanketing the term and using it as such is so offensive. If you want to talk about the policy, if you want to talk about what Ben referred to in terms of, you know, some people coming here to have children specifically so that they can be born U.S. citizens, then describe it, describe it as such. Don't use the term "anchor babies" because you have a lot of Latinos --

FERGUSON: Anchor baby --

CARDONA: You have a lot of Latino --

FERGUSON: Anchor baby describes that.

CARDONA: Let me finish. You have a lot of Latinos who have been referred to as having anchor babies who are U.S. citizens.

For example, Pam, I am an immigrant. I was not born in this country. I have two U.S. citizen kids. Are they anchor babies? In the eyes of some in the extreme right wing, yes, they would be, and that is not the way to have this conversation.

FERGUSON: Everybody that uses the term -- I wish, by the way, that you had this much compassion for standing up for children when it comes to issues like abortion but you call them something else. Now all of a sudden, you're like, oh, these are -- this is somehow -- we have to stand up for this child that can't speak for themselves.

This is again political correctness gone crazy. There are people, and you don't want to deal with the reality, that don't look at the child as anything but their way to get into this country and their way to stay in this country.

There are people that abuse the system. It doesn't have to do with the child. And no one -- I'm not debating the fact that if you're born in America, you're an American citizen. I have been saying that for as long as we've had this discussion on the issue.

CARDONA: Well, Trump doesn't believe that.

FERGUSON: But there are people that specifically -- I'm not defending Trump. I want to make that abundantly clear. I have been criticizing Trump for months on end about what he said about getting rid of American citizenship or birthright citizenship.

CARDONA: Good.

FERGUSON: If you are born in this country, you are an American citizen, but the system is broken and there are people who specifically come across the border for the only reason, to have a child in America so that they can stay in this country --

CARDONA: Then talk about it that way. Then talk about it that way.

FERGUSON: I just did.

CARDONA: Well, then don't call them anchor babies, because here is the problem, Ben, and this is a huge --

FERGUSON: It is an anchor baby when it anchors the parent here.

CARDONA: OK, you know what? Continue to talk about it that way because here is the political problem for your party. When you have term that's being used that way and it is offensive to a huge constituency that Republicans --

FERGUSON: When did it become offensive?

CARDONA: -- can't get to the White House without, when they cannot get to the White House with at least 40 percent of the Hispanic vote, look at what happened to Mitt Romney when he claimed the term --

FERGUSON: I'm not talking about Mitt Romney.

CARDONA: Look at John McCain when he talked about building the dang fence. It worked well for them, didn't they?

FERGUSON: I'm not talking about John McCain.

CARDONA: This is Jeb Bush and you might agree --

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: Maria, Maria --

CARDONA: Jeb Bush, I do think is not being true to himself because he better than anybody should know better than to use this term.

BROWN: OK.

FERGUSON: Again, anchor baby was not offensive, Maria, until Democrats like yourself tried to turn it into some sort of offensive term --

CARDONA: No, no, no, Ben. Talk to people --

FERGUSON: This was not an issue in 2008. It wasn't an issue in 2000.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: Talk to people in the southwest. Talk to Mexican immigrants in the southwest who have suffered --

FERGUSON: I talked to plenty, Maria.

CARDONA: -- this kind of discrimination for years and years and years. They will tell you this is an absolutely derogatory term and if you're going to use it in a blanket way, there is no way, no way that this Republican Party or anybody representing it will ever reach the White House.

BROWN: OK. Ben Ferguson, Maria Cardona, thank you for that lively discussion. We appreciate it.

CARDONA: Thank you, Pam.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

BROWN: Making history right now. Two women are graduating from the Army Rangers School for the first time ever.

Plus, overcome with emotion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just trying to do everything I could. I wish I could have saved her.