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Pope's Unexpected Move on Abortion; Will Pope Francis Wade into Immigration Debate in U.S.; Tom Brady Court Sketch Artist Gets Another Shot; Yahoo!'s CEO Won't Take Time Off for Twins; Dick Cheney Won't Endorse Trump Yet. Aired 11:30-12p ET
Aired September 01, 2015 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:30:15] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New this morning, a major unexpected move by Pope Francis on the issue of abortion. The pope says for the next holy year, priests will have the discretion to formally forgive women who have had abortions without the special permission of a bishop. Now, this doesn't change Catholic teaching on abortion. Still, really interesting display of outreach just prior to his U.S. visit.
Let's go live to CNN senior Vatican analyst, John Allen, in Rome with us.
John, this was really interesting today, part of a two-pronged piece of outreach by the pope.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Yeah, John. I have called this sort of a pal double play today. On the one hand, as you indicated, and quite correctly, Pope Francis said for the next year priests do not have to have special authorization from bishops in order to forgive people for the sin of abortion. It doesn't just apply to women who have had abortion. It applies to anybody who has participated in an abortion, so that could also mean the doctor who performed the procedure or other personnel who were involved, maybe a husband or a boyfriend who was involved. So anybody who had some kind of correction to it.
At the same time, he has also said that any Catholic who goes to confess their sins to a breakaway traditionalist body called the Society of St. Pius X, which has openly defied the authority of the pope and is in what the church usually calls a schism, nevertheless, for the next year the confessions for those priests here will count as fully valid. On the one hand he's doing something a lot of people would see as fairly liberal, that is showing compassion for women who have had abortions but on the other hand doing something a lot of people would see as fairly conservative, that is reaching out to the traditionalist constituency in the Catholic world. We have a pope not only stressing mercy but an interesting political balance.
BERMAN: The consistent thread seems to be "big tent," I want as many people as I can get involved in this church right now. The more doors we shut, the worse off they are, so let's open as many as we can. ALLEN: I think that's right. The money quote from today's pal
document for this year of mercy which begins on the 8th of December this year and runs until the 20th of November next year, I think the money quote from that document is his insistent that God's mercy excludes no one. I think that very much is his philosophy of church governance. He wants to be a big tent pope. He wants to be the pope of Catholics of the right and left. He wants to be the pope of the center, the traditional centers of power in Europe and the United States but also very much the pope of the peripheries, you know, people in Africa and Asia and Latin America and the Middle East and so on. This is really the ultimate in pal inclusivity and I think today as you say, unexpected and fairly dramatic act of clemency is another great example of the point.
BERMAN: And consistent with the way he's talking about gay rights and gay marriage. Not changing church doctrine, but perhaps the way the church talks to about it.
Let me ask an offbeat question. I just read an interesting piece in "The Washington Post," wondering if the pope will discuss the immigration debate that's happening in the United States. And let's be honest, there's a migrant debate happening around the world right now, but to a large extent, Donald Trump has stirred up a lot of passion right now. Do you think this is something the pope might wade into with his notions of charity here?
ALLEN: Oh, 100 percent. I think you can take it to the bank that Pope Francis will talk immigration when he comes to the United States. Yesterday he taped an hour-long special with NBC connecting him with three different communities in the United States including a border community in which he talked about immigration. Remember, Francis is the son of immigrants. His grandparents immigrated to Argentina the early 20th century. He's a Latin American pastor. He's seen scores of his own people go north in search of opportunity. Immigration has been a key theme. His first trip outside of Rome was to visit an island that is the primary point of arrival for new migrant from Africa and the Middle East trying to reach Europe. There's no way he will not talk about compassion, inclusion, tolerance, acceptance of migrants. I don't think he'll enter specific debates. I don't think he will endorse a particular politicians' immigration reform plan, but at the big picture level, that this is a country of migrants and it needs to country that tradition, you will certainly hear that from Pope Francis when he's here in late September.
[11:35:08] BERMAN: John Allen, fascinating to talk to you, especially where we are right now in the calendar on this eve of what will be a historic trip by Pope Francis to the United States.
John Allen, thank you so much.
Coming up for us, Tom Brady, a very handsome man. So why does he look like E.T.? We're going to speak to the courtroom sketch artist who made it all happen -- and is grimacing at me right now across the room.
Also, a CEO says she is having twins and she's going to pretty much work all the way through it. Marissa Mayer, reigniting the debate about parental leave.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: Any minute now, a federal judge could rule whether the four- game suspension levied on New England Patriots Quarterback Tom Brady, whether it will hold or whether he will play just about a week and a half from now in New England.
As controversial as that decision is, there was another controversy that surrounded this case, and it had to do with courtroom sketches of Tom Brady over the summer. This was the original courtroom sketch of Tom Brady a few weeks ago. Take a look. This was the second one done just yesterday. The question -- no, this was still an old one. Those are the courtroom sketches done of Tom Brady a few weeks ago and a lot of people said, hey, Tom Brady is a handsome man, that doesn't look so much like Tom Brady. Yesterday, when he appeared in court, the question was, will it be the attractive version of Tom Brady -- do we have the picture of the new version? All right. There it is right there. This is the new, improved Tom Brady right there after the improvement was done.
The courtroom sketch artist, Jamie Rosenberg, joins me right now.
Jamie, thank you so much for being with us.
Jamie, after that original sketch, there were a lot of people saying that's not Tom Brady. How much pressure did you feel?
[11:40:43] JAMIE ROSENBERG, COURTROOM SKETCH ARTIST: A ton of pressure. I had 700 e-mails that day. It was unbelievable. And it's a lot of stress to, first of all, handle everything, interviews and the media coming at me and all the criticisms. It was really hard.
BERMAN: How did you prepare?
ROSENBERG: Prepare for?
BERMAN: Prepare for yesterday? Prepare to go back into that courtroom and draw him again?
ROSENBERG: Oh. Well, I had some time and "The Daily News" sent me a photo and I did a practice sketch. I did what they called the redemption sketch --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: That's Tom Brady.
ROSENBERG: That's the one where I spent a long time making him look handsome and I tried really hard on that one.
BERMAN: Hold on for a second. Making him look handsome. There are some people who would suggest that Tom Brady is, in fact, handsome.
ROSENBERG: I say he is handsome. He's a very good looking man. But when I'm sketching and have four minutes to sketch, it's very hard to make somebody look as handsome as they look in that short amount of time.
BERMAN: Even Tom Brady?
ROSENBERG: Even Tom Brady. And apologized to him for not making him look as handsome as I think he is -- I didn't make him look as handsome in both of the sketches.
BERMAN: How many minutes do you have?
ROSENBERG: Yesterday, I think it was under five. Four something. It was a horrible situation. Yesterday was the worst it could be.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Was it the worst ever?
ROSENBERG: Sometimes it's just the same awful. But first of all, I was under the microscope, which made my life even worse. I knew all eyeballs were on me, and then he ended up not sitting at the table but sitting way in the back, and I could barely see him. His lawyer stood up and blocked me. I'm shifting in my seat getting the left side of his head, the right side. It was really hard. And then it was over. Suddenly. The other time, I had more time. The first time, I had a wide shot. What people are focusing on is that one little square inch on the paper but I had done a whole wide shot with everybody --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: The landscape was beautiful. All the other people looked handsome.
So you have been in the courtroom now. You think Tom Brady is innocent?
ROSENBERG: I have no opinion on that. I'm not going to comment on --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Deep down inside --
ROSENBERG: No, no comment.
BERMAN: -- you think they should overturn --
ROSENBERG: No comment.
BERMAN: I think you do.
ROSENBERG: I don't.
(LAUGHTER)
That's not my decision. He's going to work it out. I'm sure. He will do a good job.
BERMAN: Has Tom Brady ever reached out to you since? ROSENBERG: No, he hasn't.
BERMAN: Did he look at you in the courtroom when he came in?
ROSENBERG: Actually, on his way out yesterday, we waved to each other, a big wave. There was nobody else in the courtroom and he said, thank you, and I don't really know why he said thank you, but he did.
BERMAN: Do you know why? I think that's kind of cool. Here is a guy who has been under the spotlight a little bit, he knows what it's like to be under the pressure. It had to feel good to get a wave from Tom Brady.
ROSENBERG: That's probably why I was waving, so long, good-bye.
BERMAN: So long. I'll never see you again. And that's why you think deep down the suspension should be overturned?
ROSENBERG: I didn't say that.
(LAUGHTER)
BERMAN: Jamie Rosenberg, thank you for being with us.
Good luck going forward.
ROSENBERG: Thank you.
BERMAN: I know it stinks to be under the spotlight --
(CROSSTALK)
ROSENBERG: OK, thanks.
BERMAN: Do you get to keep these photos?
ROSENBERG: Oh, yeah, those are mine. I can do what I want with them.
BERMAN: EBay.
ROSENBERG: I'll see.
BERMAN: All right, Jamie. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
ROSENBERG: You're welcome.
BERMAN: So forget one year of paid maternity leave? How about working the entire time? That's what Yahoo!'s CEO says she's going to do after having twins. We'll discuss the impact on working moms.
Plus, toddler rescue, the man being called a hero after saving a little girl hanging offer the side of a building. More of the incredible video ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [11:47:52] BERMAN: An announcement overnight creating a huge stir. Yahoo! CEO Marissa Mayer is having twins but will only take a tiny amount of time off after delivery. She wrote this on Tumblr, saying, "Since my pregnancy has been healthy and uncomplicated, and since this is a unique time in Yahoo!'s transform medication, I plan to approach the pregnancy and delivery, as I did with my son three years ago, taking limited time away and working throughout."
The question a lot of people are asking is, you're a woman working at Yahoo! and you see this from your CEO, will you feel pressure to take less time off when you have a child?
Joining me now, denies Albert and Melissa Gerstein, bloggers at TheMoms.com.
What of it, guys. When you see this from Marissa Mayer, saying really no time off this time with twins. I have twins. You know, they're complicated. And, look, it's physically grueling, to boot, to say the least. What do you make of it?
DENISE ALBERT, BLOGGER, THEMOMS.COM: I think she has to do what feels right for her. I actually was not that different from her. My second pregnancy I really didn't take time off either. I was in a job that I was running a show, a television show, and we had a big production and it was my choice. And I wouldn't have changed it. It was hard, but I think that she's the kind of person that needs to work, and she will make it work, and she after her last pregnancy extended maternity leave at her company --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: 16 weeks.
ALBERT: She did. And so I think that it shouldn't make other women feel any pressure, and this is what works for her and I commend her for doing it her way.
BERMAN: It shouldn't make any women feel --
(CROSSTALK)
ALBERT: Well, that's their problem.
BERMAN: And I think everyone can agree, look, you should be able to do what you want. You should be able to do what you want. If you want to take time off at a company, hopefully, your company supports you to that full extent, but if you are at Yahoo! and you have a 16 week leave, you see your CEO doing this --
MELISSA GERSTEIN, BLOGGER, THEMOMS.COM: That's right, yeah.
BERMAN: -- don't you think you would feel pressured?
GERSTEIN: And guilty. But she has stockholders to report to. But I'm curious to see if Zuckerberg takes time off, all of the CEOs that are high executives of this company. If they're offering maternity leave but not taking it, the employees will feel good themselves.
[11:50:10] ALBERT: They shouldn't.
GERSTEIN: Every household is different but we need to create more options and people need to take advantage of that so you can bond with your baby. That initial family time is so crucial. I lived in Canada for a year, and maternity leave is an option for a year, and this country is way behind and we have to make a difference.
BERMAN: And we have it. We have it at a lot of companies.
GERSTEIN: It's minimal.
(CROSSTALK)
GERSTEIN: It's not enough. I went back to work, I was pumping, having anxiety, under pressure. After you give birth, mother or father, you need to take time at home.
BERMAN: But there are two different debates. One is how much time off should you take, and I suppose you could argue Marisa Mayer should take time off but that's her choice as a human. The question is what message does it send to the CEO? You say workers shouldn't feel guilty? You shouldn't feel --
(CROSSTALK)
ALBERT: It's --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: But let me say this. Why did she post it on Tumblr? Why tell anyone? Why can't she just do what she'll do?
ALBERT: Well, because if you're going to ask the question --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: She seems to be advertising this to her entire company.
ALBERT: I think she's probably trying to put out a fire ahead of time. She's sending the right messages. She's saying she's healthy so she's covering herself in terms of a woman and your body changing and I think she's saying if she wasn't healthy and didn't have an easy pregnancy she probably wouldn't be doing this. But she's able to do it and it works for her. This is what works for her family. And other women shouldn't worry about it. They have the leave that they have. They are protected. And they should take what they want to take. This doesn't work for everyone. Marissa Meyer can't time off from work, that's not the way she's built.
(CROSSTALK)
GERSTEIN: But she has the opportunity to make a difference and she's not making that --
ALBERT: I disagree. I think she is making a difference.
GERSTEIN: If she looked at the Netflix model, that would be outstanding.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: Netflix is offering unlimited leave in the first year of birth. Microsoft says it will increase paid leave. Facebook offers four months of paid leave. The question is, if they're offering -- yes, they're offering all this but will people take it?
ALBERT: Right. And that's --
(CROSSTALK)
GERSTEIN: They're not going to take it unless executives take it. That's the problem.
ALBERT: No, but she should haven't to take it so people under her take it. People under her should feel confident that the company --
(CROSSTALK)
GERSTEIN: But the example starts at the top and goes down.
GERSTEIN: No, it doesn't. Everyone is different. Everyone is different. And every woman should do what works for her and her family.
BERMAN: I feel like she said, "Since my pregnancy has been healthy and uncomplicated." Having that predicate right there, doesn't that say, well, if your pregnancy is healthy and uncomplicated you should consider not taking time off?
ALBERT: No. She's saying that's what works for her. And if she has the babies and finds that she needs to be home more or she's not healthy or she can't do it all, she'll probably adjust it. But I think she's going through it with a great attitude and setting examples for women who are very dedicated to their careers, that there is no reason why you can't be a mother and work and continue on your career path.
GERSTEIN: I think we need more options. I think employers need to take time and evaluate.
ALBERT: They are.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: But there are options. But on the other side, there are options at Yahoo! Better options than --
(CROSSTALK)
ALBERT: Better than a lot of other places.
BERMAN: Sure. And if she does want to do this, shouldn't she be able to do it?
ALBERT: Absolutely.
GERSTEIN: She should be able to do both.
(LAUGHTER)
ALBERT: She is trying. It's not easy.
GERSTEIN: It's not easy.
(CROSSTALK)
ALBERT: A lot of working moms also want to work. They do, it's in their DNA. So it's depending on each household.
BERMAN: Thank you for helping me sell absolutely nothing.
(LAUGHTER)
BERMAN: Denise Albert, Melissa Gerstein --
ALBERT: Do what works for you. That's the --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: -- thank you so much for being with us.
I have twins. I have twins. That works for me. It really does.
(LAUGHTER)
I want to show you heart-stopping video out of China. A toddler dangling off the side of a building four stories up. Apparently, she'd been left home alone. She tried to crawl out of the window and got her head stuck in the bars. A man heard cries, grabbed a mop and held her in place until her parents got home and got her to safety. That's amazing. The girl is said to be OK.
Plus, keeping an eye on Wall Street. The Dow taking a new dive today. Down 400 points earlier. Down about 306 points right now. Which way is it headed? Rough month. Rough beginning. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:57:51] BERMAN: Dick Cheney will not endorse Donald Trump -- at least not yet. This coming from a new CNN interview. The former vice president and his daughter, Liz Cheney, promoting the new book, "Exceptional: Why the World Needs a Powerful America."
CNN's special correspondent, Jamie Gangel, asked the Cheneys why they think Trump is on the top of the polls.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: OK, get your popcorn ready. (LAUGHTER)
It is the summer of Donald Trump, ladies and gentlemen.
What do you think of Donald Trump?
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know the man. I've never met him.
GANGEL: Watching this whole spectacle, what do you think?
CHENEY: Well, again, he's a candidate and I don't want to be in the business of rating candidates at this point or grading them. I have not signed on with anybody and I'm -- I don't plan to today.
GANGEL: You're not endorsing Donald Trump today?
(LAUGHTER)
CHENEY: You can even -- that's a given. I'm not endorsing Donald Trump today.
GANGEL: So let me try it this way. Why do you think he's doing so well in the polls?
CHENEY: I've been surprised that he's done as well as he has. I think most of us have, on the Republican side. But he clearly is a major factor going forward and we'll watch developments with interest.
GANGEL: Liz, why do you think he's doing so well in the polls --
(LAUGHTER)
-- since the vice president is punting on this question.
LIZ CHENEY, DAUGHTER OF DICK CHENEY & FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: You're hoping I'll dive in, right? No, look, I think that it's this notion that people are frustrated with a president who doesn't seem to believe in American greatness, American exceptionalism. I think people are frustrated with Washington. And, you know, Donald Trump is tapping into a lot of that.
GANGEL: Would you vote for him?
CHENEY: I will support the nominee of my party, as I always have. I think it's very important.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: You can watch all of Jamie Gangel's interview with the co- authors, Dick and Liz Cheney, tonight on "A.C. 360" on CNN at 8:00 p.m. eastern time.
By the way, hop on Twitter right now. Remember Jeb Bush and Donald Trump, I said they were going after each other on the Internet? There's a Twitter war brewing as we speak. It's hot. All right, thanks for joining us AT THIS HOUR.
"Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.
