Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Rescue Attempt in Arizona; Protests Continue in Missouri; Interview with Mayor James Knowles of Ferguson, Missouri

Aired August 19, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Stay with us here on CNN.

Want to take you to Ferguson, Missouri, now.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now. Oh. You want me to -- OK. Forget what I just said.

We're going to stay on the Phoenix, Arizona, pictures and we're going to wait. We're going to take you to Phoenix in just a -- we're going to take you to Ferguson in just a minute. We will stay on these pictures.

Chad Myers, stay with me because we want to see the rescue.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Fair enough.

BALDWIN: It looked to me a minute ago when this news helicopter -- we have seen a couple of different pictures because of our TV affiliates. They have all honed in on this story and we're all watching and waiting for this rescue. It looked to me like that rescue shopper flew away from the home.

Don't know if it's going off to land somewhere, don't know if it's going to pick up another rescue worker. But we're waiting, we're all waiting for this rescue. At least what I had seen, two individuals inside of this home, a lot of rain in the Phoenix, Arizona, area.

As Chad was mentioning, this is the season, monsoon season. And to Chad's point -- Chad, let me just bring your voice back into this as we watch and wait -- we're not entirely sure when we look at this home whether or not the home actually moved because of the flash floods, Chad. We can't say for sure, but by the appearance of the way the trees are up and over the home, it looks like because of the waters the home itself moved.

MYERS: It sure does.

It looked like I believe that the home became a boat just because the home was lighter than the water under it. Just like we don't want you driving in more than eight inches of water because your car can float, certainly, if there's water under a home like this, a manufactured home, that this home can float.

And we do -- I do believe it probably floated away. It's not rocking and it's not crooked at all. It could be on some type of foundation there or at least cinder blocks, the water going under it. But for a while I was worried that there was an awful lot of water rushing through eroding those cinder blocks, eroding any foundation it might have and that we could see this fall back into the water here.

I have been noticing on the wide shot that there is a line. There's a mark on the home. That appears to me that may be either the water line or a scratch in the house. I have been watching this line for about 15 minutes now.

It appears to me the water may be going down. You can see how it's sunny there. It may not have ever rained where this water is, where this flash flooding is. It may have only rained up the hill. But you can see another rescuer trying to get out.

(CROSSTALK)

MYERS: There you go. See what they're going to do here.

BALDWIN: Someone else, which sort of corroborates what I saw a moment ago.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So, let me just reset. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin and Chad, Chad Myers, in the Weather Center.

We're watching this whole thing unfold. Look at this, power lines, cactus, a lot of trees here they're having to meander through. This is worker number two hanging down on this wire from this rescue helicopter. We have seen one person communicating to at least what I could tell two individuals inside of this home, just incredibly compelling pictures of this flash flood water surrounding this home on all four sides.

We have this second rescue worker, which tells me you know, my eyes weren't deceiving me. There were at least two people inside of this home. This rescue worker presumably delivering a second set of equipment to rescue that second individual trapped inside this Phoenix, Arizona, area home.

MYERS: I think possibly, too, this person may get into the water.

They may lower him attached to the wire, not unattached, but down below the roof, down into a place where he can actually make a difference trying to get that person attached to that wire to get him up. I don't know that for sure yet. We will have to take a look. They're still positioning him.

Obviously, you see all the trees in the way. You have got to get the line long enough that the rotors are nowhere near the trees. You see all that rotor wash, all the trees blowing around. Now he's going to probably land on the roof if I see what's going on here now.

BALDWIN: Here we go, on the roof. And here we go, thumbs up. He's good. Here's the tricky part. This is what we have to point out to viewers that you did so earlier, that that helicopter pilot, he can't see.

This is obviously -- the home is below him. The drop is below him. He's flying blind in a sense having to communicate with these people with those walkie-talkies to figure out where the drop would be on the roof with the equipment. And there's the window and that A.C. unit moving.

MYERS: Yes. It looks like they're pulling it in this time. So it probably didn't go out.

They're supposed to be just as wide as the opening, so maybe they couldn't push it out. So it's easier to just come in, go inside and pull it out of the way. That's a pretty big unit, too. That's very heavy. That's probably a 15,000 BTU unit. You're going to see that that's probably 125-, 135-pound unit that he just pulled in there. So that was no easy feat.

BALDWIN: Here's the thing.

If you're just joining us, obviously, it's a home. It's got multiple windows. We saw from a front-facing window at least two people waving a white T-shirt, wanting -- waving toward the rescue that this was the home that needed the help. What we have been wondering -- and I'm no professional, these two individuals you're looking are the professionals.

We're trying to figure out why they would use different windows. I think what we have determined potentially is you see all the trees obscuring multiple windows on this home because perhaps this entire home adjusted because of the flash flooding. So trying to determine which window to use for the rescue, how to secure, toss those rescue vests down to the people inside the home.

And, you know, really the next question -- and we will watch and wait for this -- is how they remove these individuals from inside, right, Chad? Either they try to hook that U-shaped yellow piece of equipment around these people and pull them upward with the helicopter, pull them onto the roof. We just don't know.

MYERS: Right.

And the more and more I see it, the more the indications are to me that the house did move, the house did float to where it is now. I was just looking at a piece of the heavy, the aluminum wire that -- the 110 or the 220 line that would have been attached to a pole somewhere. That was lying on the roof, likely not charged, because it was pulled away from the pole.

But that indicates to me that that line that that would be the power line to the home was yanked off. That's only probably going to happen only if the house does move. You notice that line I'm talking about. You see that kind of horizontal line in the house? That line is getting farther and farther out of the water.

I do believe at this point in time that the water is going down for these rescuers. They may not have to get this person or these people into the helicopter. They may be able to walk them out of there fairly soon.

BALDWIN: OK. Chad Myers, thank you so much for staying with me the last 20 or so minutes. I know Chad is not going to go too far. And we will continue watching this rescue operation under way.

I just did get word. We were talking about one of the rescue helicopters moving away. They just had to fuel up. They have been circling and getting to this location so they need fuel to be able to return. Again now, we have two rescue workers on top of the this roof in the Phoenix, Arizona, area, trying to establish communication with at least two individuals inside of this home.

The home surrounded by flash flood water because of the rains over the course of the last couple hours. How will they get these people out? How will they get them out safely? These are all things we have been watching and waiting for here on CNN. We will stay with the rescue.

But, of course, we want to take you to Ferguson, Missouri. THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Brooke.

Welcome to THE LEAD. I am Jake Tapper live in Ferguson, Missouri.

We're going to continue, however, to follow this desperate, desperate rescue attempt at a home overcome with rushing floodwaters in New River, Arizona. That's north of Phoenix. We will come back to Ferguson when this story, this incredible saga is over.

Let's go back to our Chad Myers in the CNN Weather Center.

Chad, catch up people who are just turning on the TV right now. Obviously, this is a flood rescue. What exactly has happened?

MYERS: A large line of weather, Jake, came across central Arizona. Came across the valley, Cave Creek, at Carefree, if you know that area. That's north of downtown Phoenix proper. There have been showers in Phoenix, but not like they picked up, up there, up I-17 about 20 miles north of Phoenix.

A 14-minute period, we had one inch of rainfall and then it continued to rain after that. But that's a tremendous rainfall rate. That's equal to four inches of rain per hour that fell on a fairly high terrain area. You think of Phoenix as the valley of the sun. It is a valley down there. It's fairly flat.

But when you get north or to the east or the west for that matter of Phoenix, you will definitely get more topography. When that rains falls on the topography, it has to run down. You think, well, it's just a desert, how could it not just soak in?

That desert floor is actually quite hard, hardpan. And that water doesn't want to soak in very quickly. It runs off. So these areas that we call arroyos or just dry washes, they become raging rivers. You think it never rains in Phoenix. Yes, it does. It rains in the summer, in the late summer in what's called monsoon season. It even rains in Vegas or there wasn't be a lake to the north of Vegas.

There wouldn't be any kind of topography there or any kind of vegetation if it didn't rain. Even though it is considered a desert, it does rain. And this area here has picked up more rain, according to Brian Stelter, more rain today than they picked up all of last year.

That's telling you why these people got themselves in trouble. We do think that home actually washed down the river, at least a little bit, moved off its foundation in the rushing waters, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Chad Myers, thanks so much. Stay with us, Chad.

We're going to come back to the story as it develops.

But let's take a turn now to the reason why we are here live in Ferguson, Missouri. City leaders today called for a "nighttime quiet and reconciliation" after what started as peaceful protests last night once again degenerated into this.

Lots more people calling lawyers here in Ferguson today after dozens were arrested overnight. Police claim shots were fired within the crowds. They accused certain protesters of throwing rocks, bottles, Molotov cocktails. There are agitators in these crowds.

That's not really in dispute. But those who claim commitment to peaceful protests say those agitators are outsiders. Of the 78 people arrested overnight, about one in four come from outside the Saint Louis area, according to the Saint Louis County Jail.

City leaders issued a public letter a few hours ago which reads in part -- quote -- "It is our hope that as we continue to work for the well-being of Ferguson, residents will stay home at night, allow peace to settle in and allow for the justice process to take its course."

The letter also promises to raise funds to equip police officers with dash and body cams. Remember, there's no video uncovered yet at least of the incident that set all of this off, the fatal shooting of unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown 10 days ago by white 28-year-old Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson.

A short time ago, we learned there was another officer-involved shooting a few miles away from here in Ferguson in Saint Louis. Police say in this case, officers shot and killed a 23-year-old man who allegedly stole from a convenience store. He allegedly approached officers with a knife and said to them, shoot me now, kill me now.

They behest him, please put down the knife. He would not put down the knife and he did end up dead. There is an enormous media presence here for a city of 21,000. Critics have charged that the media, that we are putting ourselves in the center of the story, but police haven't exactly helped that by arresting several journalists.

My crew and I were right in the thick of it last night when the tear gas started flying. We along with people in the living rooms across the nation watched these images which in some ways seem so incompatible with life in the modern United States of America.

We watched these images unfold in real time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): This afternoon, the people of Ferguson are cleaning up after one of the most dramatic and confrontational nights so far. Nine days after the death of Michael Brown, the protests started out peacefully, but that would not last long.

ADRIAN ANDERSON, PROTESTER: We have tried to set up a strategic peace plan so that the people could freely march and have their voices be heard.

TAPPER: Demonstrators and law enforcement agreed to respect one another, despite their tensions in the past.

(on camera): It's a two-way street. It is not just the police holding back. It is a very organized protest.

(voice-over): Earlier, Missouri State Highway Patrol Captain Ron Johnson had been shaking hands while local law enforcement secured area stores and protected the marchers and citizens. But we were there as the movement stopped and crowds gathered, contrary to the plan.

(on camera): Somewhere, in the last 10, 15 minutes, the crowd stopped marching.

(voice-over): That friendly police presence grew intimidatingly large with guns drawn and gas masks secured in the biggest show of force we have seen. Their armored vehicles and raised firearms seemingly did more at that moment to antagonize the crowd than to calm it.

And while there were without question a small handful of protesters trying to provoke the police, their numbers were few at this intersection. And even after the crowd dispersed, that show of force remained.

(on camera): There is nothing going on on this street right now that merits this scene out of Bagram.

(voice-over): Now, it was a completely different story two blocks away, where several dozen demonstrators defiantly had set up roadblocks and were chiding police. Law enforcement told the group to clear the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are going to be subject to arrest.

TAPPER: But some protesters threw bottles and were clearly trying to incite police, who responded with this.

(on camera): They're throwing more tear gas.

TAPPER: Tear gas engulfing not just the provocateurs, but also members of the media.

(on camera): You all right, man?

(voice-over): This freelance photographer was knocked from his feet by a canister of gas that stung his eyes, throat and lungs.

Back on set, we suited up for protection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our crew is being overcome. Are you guys OK?

TAPPER: This was to be the first night in a few days without a curfew, but as the gas dispersed, along with the crowd, those that remained were ordered to leave, including, eventually, members of the media.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just clearing out this area. It's not safe to be here anymore, OK?

TAPPER: Now as we head into the tenth night of demonstration, hopes for calm remain.

CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: This has to stop. It has to stop. I don't want anybody to get hurt.

MALIK SHABAZZ, ATTORNEY: We don't need no national guard. We don't need all of that. We don't need all of that. We need community volunteers to come out here and keep the peace.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Much more from Ferguson and much more on that daring rescue in Arizona when we come back. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. Stay with us.

I'm Jake Tapper in Ferguson, Missouri.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. We're live in Ferguson, Missouri, as you can probably hear from the car horns honking on West Florissant Avenue.

There are fears of yet another night of violence between police and protesters. Protesters are furious over the police shooting of unarmed black 18-year-old Michael Brown. But with tensions already running very high, St. Louis police a short time today shot and killed another black man a few miles from here. This one was not unarmed. He had a knife.

Police say he stole from a convenience store, approached officers with that knife and said, "Shoot me now, kill me now."

Let's bring in Ferguson, Missouri, Mayor James Knowles.

I know this incident on its face has nothing to do with what happened to Michael Brown or even the protests here. But are you concerned that it could have an impact?

MAYOR JAMES KNOWLES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: Absolutely. For the past nine days, there's a lot of people making conclusions before all the information is out. And, you know, we've stayed completely out of the investigation.

But right now, even the slightest thing can enrage people's angers. So, there are unrelated things that helped build frustration which this incident unfortunately precipitated into a large -- we saw looting and protests and whatnot. That didn't happen from building here in Ferguson. That's something I think that's been building from many other places.

You can see a lot of people that were arrested here are not from here, not from Ferguson, not even from St. Louis but from other plays.

So, of course, we're concerned. We're concerned that this will give those who wish to be agitators yet another rallying cry, another reason. So, here in Ferguson, we've been focused on people's safety. We have kept the vast majority of our community safe and secure during this time. We'll continue to do that we hope.

TAPPER: You're calling for -- you and other community leaders and elected officials calling for a night of quiet, asking residents to stay home at night. But protesters still being planned.

What's your response to protests are who say, look, there was an injustice done, I want to exercise my first anticipate right to protest, your request for quiet doesn't mean anything?

KNOWLES: Well, you know, we've actually made the affirmative statement. We want you to come out and protest if that's what you feel. If you feel there's an injustice, I absolutely support every amendment and every part of the Constitution. And that's why we've said come out, come out and find a safe place to do it, but please disperse by nightfall.

Now, I know that makes people feel like that we're not allowing them the full free exercise of their rights. Of course, we're looking at what's happening after dark -- the people who have been infiltrating it.

We actually made this call a week ago and it fell on deaf ears. We've made it again today. I know we're being joined in by Captain Johnson and other African-American leaders.

Let's just have a night to cool off. Let's have a night we can completely separate those good people exercising First Amendment rights from those trying to co-opt this horrible situation into something to meet their own needs.

TAPPER: Police are in a tough place, obviously, they have to protect citizens. Obviously, they have to protect the stores looted. But I've also heard a lot of citizens in Ferguson express concern at the show of force that we've seen last night and other nights, a large almost a military seeming presence. There were about 200 or 300 police officers, law enforcement there yesterday.

I wonder, do you have any concern at all about that kind of display of force?

KNOWLES: Well, you know, I don't want to guess the professionals who are on the ground making tactical decisions. Of course, on the face, it does look frightening. But we saw early on before that, before that strong display, you know, looting prevail throughout not just along the small strip which we've kept contained for about the past eight of the nine days, but it spread all around the area.

TAPPER: Sure, that town over, yes.

KNOWLES: Several towns over.

So, we've been able to keep it contained. So, there is a balance -- through the optics, it looks very terrible. I don't dispute that. Others are saying they're being antagonized by that. I can see that.

But we have to realize we're all out here for one reason, the people who first came out here believe there's an injustice. We all want justice. So, I think everybody who's out here for the right reasons, you know, should understand we're just trying to keep people safe.

TAPPER: Mayor Knowles, thank you so much. Appreciate you taking the time.

KNOWLES: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: When we come back, he was in the middle of the mayhem last night as police moved in to push back protesters. Now, the former leader of the New Black Panther Party says it's infiltrators who are inciting violence. We'll ask him about that next.

Stay with us.

Thank you. Appreciate your time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)