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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Obama Criticized Over Handling Of ISIS; How Big Is ISIS Threat In U.S.; Could Foley Have Been Saved?

Aired August 22, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to THE LEAD. We are here in Ferguson, Missouri, but we're still going to take some time to talk about some other important world news such as this. If you come after Americans, we will come after you.

That is the message from the White House today after the horrific beheading of American James Foley by the terrorists of ISIS. But just how far will the United States go to fight ISIS?

Today the U.S. launched more air strikes on ISIS targets in Iraq, but the question looms as to whether those air strikes will continue into Syria and whether it will take American boots on the ground to stomp out the threat. Our Barbara Starr has all the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. officials tell CNN there are long-standing and ongoing talks inside the administration about increasing air strikes in Iraq and even the possibility of tailored air strikes inside Syria against specific ISIS targets. But officials stress, no decisions have been made by the White House.

BEN RHODES, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We're actively considering what's going to be necessary to deal with that threat and we're not going to be restricted by borders.

STARR: And the Pentagon is divulging nothing.

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: We don't telegraph our punches. I think you can rest assured that the leadership here in the pentagon understands the threat posed by this group.

STARR: Talk of military options stirred up by this comment by Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel about the threat of ISIS and its ranks of 10,000 fighters.

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: This is beyond anything that we've seen. So we must prepare for everything. And the only way you do that is you take a cold steely hard look at it and get ready.

STARR: Officials are taking pains to emphasize that any military action would go only be part of a long-term strategy against ISIS involving diplomacy and action from other countries in the region.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: U.S. military leaders continue to make the case that air strikes alone will not defeat ISIS, that countries in the region must band together to defeat their radical ideology -- Jake.

TAPPER: Thanks, Barbara Starr. Our White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski joins me now. Michelle, the president's comparison of the forces that would be ISIS to a JV basketball team just a few months ago stands in stark conflict with what the Pentagon and the White House now call a threat like we've never seen. What is the White House response to the fact that just a few months ago, the president was belittling this.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And this came up so many times over the last couple days. We, too, we wanted to ask this during today's briefing. The president's deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes was there, as well. We asked that.

You know, what has changed or do you not agree with the president's statement anymore that these forces there diverse groups with a sort of JV team compared to al Qaeda. They got kind of a dual answer.

First of all, the administration does agree that these forces including ISIS are different from al Qaeda. In fact, they're still mainly involved in regional operations and not the 9/11 level planning of, say, al Qaeda.

So they think that that statement in some respects stands, but they did sort of further that by saying, well, over the last several months, based on what has gone on with continued fighting in Syria, based on continued ransoms and high value ransoms paid by other countries and the enormous funding that ISIS has, they have increased in strength even over the last six months.

So it was kind of saying both. Now all of that said, the administration would not go so far today as to agree with Secretary Hagel's very strong words yesterday. They said basically, well, the president has made clear how he feels about ISIS -- Jake.

TAPPER: Michelle, do you think that the White House is willing to consider air strikes not just on ISIS in Iraq, but on ISIS targets in Syria?

KOSINSKI: Absolutely. Absolutely. What we've been able to gather over the last few days tells us that this is absolutely on the table that it is being considered and even today, when those questions were able to be asked directly on the record, the deputy security advisor said so without using those words.

But based on the way he asked specific questions, essentially said that yes, the U.S. is considering air strikes in Syria, but he emphasized that that would require the consultation with Congress, basically a legal justification for doing so since the U.S. wouldn't be invited into Syria as it has been into Iraq -- Jake. TAPPER: Michele Kosinski, thank you so much. Let's bring in Republican Congressman Peter King of New York. He serves on the House Homeland Security Committee.

Congressman, thanks for joining us. Do you think President Obama dropped the ball in Syria? You called the beheading of James Foley a declaration of war and you heard Ben Rhodes say they're not going to be restricted by borders. Do you expect air strikes in Syria soon?

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: I agree with General Dempsey. I don't see how we can defeat ISIS unless we go into Syria with I believe massive air strikes. It's not about Syria or Iraq. It's about our homeland and our national security.

I believe the president has the obligation if he's serious and I think he is about going after ISIS, not just stopping ISIS but actually destroying ISIS that we have to go to Syria because that's again, that is where it's generated from and that is a key location.

So no, if we're serious, Syria definitely has to be, I believe, subject to air attacks and going back to what you were saying before, we've known this for many months. The president was wrong when he says the junior varsity. This is no secret within the intelligence community.

Even back in January, General Flynn, who is the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency he said to expect attacks from ISIS across Iraq back in February, they captured Fallujah, which is a major, major city in Iraq.

So this was no secret and the president seemed intent on saying al Qaeda was defeated and that basically this was all behind us. In fact, I believe that actually ISIS is more powerful now and more deadly than al Qaeda was on September 11th.

TAPPER: Wow. More deadly than al Qaeda was on September 11th. Then do you think air strikes will be enough?

KING: I believe this has to be sustained first of all, we have to arm the Kurds and we have to work with the Kurds and get the Iraqi army back in the field. I believe we have to have American troops embedded with the Iraqis not so much for the sake of playing a lead role in combat.

But as far as providing leadership on the ground and also providing intelligence to make our air strikes more critical, to make them more effective. I also believe we're going to have to use special operations forces, special missions for dangerous missions if you will.

And it was already over 1,000 troops in Iraq right now. I think the president is setting up this sort of false premise that we can't have boots on the ground. No one is saying the U.S. should be involved heavily in combat operations.

But to make the -- whatever we're doing effective, there has to be I believe the presence of some Americans on the ground, particularly special operations forces.

TAPPER: Congressman, as you know, there are many people in the public and I'm sure in your congressional district who are skeptical of not only sending in troops, but of what the intelligence community says about that region of the war and the threat posed from that region of the war.

What do you tell those skeptics about A, sending in troops, and B, why they should believe the intelligence community about Iraq now when they got it so wrong when it came to Saddam Hussein and weapons of mass destruction?

KING: I understand the American people are being war weary. They're weary in my district, too. What makes my district a little different, we lost over 400 people in the Long Island region on September 11th. I lost 150 friends, neighbors and constituents.

So we live with the memory of 9/11 maybe more vividly than other parts of the country. I think it's important for the president as a leader to say why this is not just about Iraq or Syria, why this is a direct threat to the U.S. mainland and why American lives are at risk and why more lives will be at risk if we don't take action than if we do.

So the president has to stop talking about this in a limited way like we're going to clear the mountain. We're going to retake the dam and then acting as if that's enough. He has to make it clear that this is going to be a long sustained effort.

John Kennedy spoke about a long twilight struggle. In many ways the war against Islamist terrorism is going to be a long struggle. We should get allies involved. We should try to get certainly moderate Arab forces with us, European allies such as the British and the French.

Because they also could be very vulnerable to attack considering all of the foreign fighters from Europe that have gone to Syria and now affiliated with ISIS, we can go back into Europe and attack Europe and also attack us.

TAPPER: All right, Congressman Peter King, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Coming up next, James Foley's brother criticizing the U.S. for not doing more to save him. Now he's warning the other hand in the hands of ISIS terrorists could meet the same brutal fate.

Plus a massive crowd plan for Michael Brown's public funeral on Monday. How is the church preparing for this incredible powerful, important service? I went to the church today to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper in Ferguson, Missouri. Much more on the crisis here coming up, but first, another important story in world. Their brother was beheaded by the terrorists of ISIS. And now the siblings of American photojournalist, James Foley, say more could have been done by the U.S. government to save their brother from ISIS and they hope more will be done to save another American hostage, Stephen Sotloff of "Time" magazine. The Foleys spoke with Yahoo! News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FOLEY, JAMES FOLEY'S BROTHER: Even take the money aside, there's more that could have been done directly on Jim's behalf, and I really hope that with respect to Stephen, they take some action quickly. There are things that can be done, you know? We are sitting on prisoners, for example in Guantanamo. It doesn't even have to be financial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The White House responded today saying that their hearts go out to the Foley family and that the U.S. government did everything it could, quote, "as a matter of policy, we do not provide ransom or any funding for terrorist organizations," unquote.

Let's bring in CNN counterterrorism analyst and former FBI and CIA official, Phil Mudd, and Retired Lieutenant General Michael D. Barbero, who spent almost four years on the ground in Iraq and visited the Northern Kurdish region where much of the fighting has been going on just in the last few weeks. He's a consultant for Middle Eastern Energy.

General, let's start with you. This is a grieving family. Do they have a point, however, could the U.S. have done more such as a prisoner swap? They were willing to do one, for example to, get Bo Bergdahl back.

LT. GENERAL MICHAEL D. BARBERO, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): Jake, you know this family certainly has asked a valid question and they have every right to ask this. I make two points. First to our policy. Money is the oxygen for these networks, and any type of ran some just will encourage further hostage taking and prisoner exchanges do the same thing.

So I agree with our policy and now to the action that was taken, this raid. I've been in the loop of several similar type operations in Iraq and cross borders. This is was the best shot and you set a series of conditions to take this act and then you go for it. We had our best intelligence, we thought we had our best chance and this is the best shot we had and we took it.

TAPPER: Phil, had, you heard the general say that resources, ransoms, that's the life blood for terrorist groups. What specifically happens when a family pays off terrorists?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I think one of the things you have to worry about is what's the residual effect down the road? What are the next two or five or ten journalists or civilians be taken for more money. We've seen that happen in places like Africa. I think though, Jake, there's a deeper issue here about how terrorists think. I remember the first major terrorist we took down in 2002 was later waterboarded. I talked to one of these debriefers then. This is 12 years ago.

Abu Zubaida in detention looks in the debriefer in the eye and says if you ever let me go, I'll go back to my work. That is I'll go back to kill you. We're dealing with people who want more than $100 million in ran some money? That's absurd.

Dealing with people who put the heads of human beings on stakes who murder people by the hundreds and I think we're trying to suggest that somehow, we can have a rational conversation with them that might involve a few prisoners at Guantanamo. They don't come from that kind of mind-set. That's my experience in 20 years of watching them.

TAPPER: General, I want to go back to something you said in your first answer, which is that releasing -- that paying ran some or doing a prisoner swap only encourages terrorists.

Does that mean that you think that the United States by doing the prisoner swap to get Bo Bergdahl back? We violated our own ethics and did something that will encourage terrorists in the future?

BARBERO: That's a great question. Our policy has been very firm that we don't do this. And I think the Bergdahl issue ran counter to that policy. And I'm concerned for whether there's civilians, journalists, soldiers on the ground in the future, it will encourage further hostage taking.

TAPPER: Phil, what do you think about the White House commenting on this failed rescue mission? They say that they were only providing information because a bunk of media organizations will already gotten information about it and they needed to provide the context because media organizations were going to run with it already. What's your take?

MUDD: Jake, I'm sorry. Let me be blunt because we're on the media. I used to be on the other side and did this all the time at the CIA here's what happens. You get a phone call from the press office. I got that phone call.

The press office says to this afternoon, we're having a journalist come in to talk to you about some information they're going to reveal in a newspaper or on the air. The journalist comes in, they talk to me. They've got the full story.

And the answer is unless you can persuade them that the release of that story will lead to somebody's death, they're going to let it out the door. I'm sympathetic with the White House and the Pentagon. Let me take a step further.

I would have done exactly the same thing under the Bush administration, the Obama administration, I'm not a political guy. This is a simple story that's gotten complicated. They have the story. I would have gotten it out first. TAPPER: All right. Phil Mudd and Lieutenant General Barbero, thank you so much. Both of you. Have a good weekend.

When we come back, preparations already under way for Michael Brown's funeral, which will be held here on Monday morning. How is this church planning for the huge crowds expected at this public event?

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper in Ferguson. The killing of unarmed 18-year-old Michael Brown by Police Officer Darren Wilson here has ignited a firestorm of peaceful protests and riots and looting and a militarized police response here in Ferguson, Missouri, and debate across the world about race, class, and police.

But this is also a community in mourning. On Monday, family members, friends and even stranger who feel a connection to what happened here will show up we assume in droves to honor what was at the end of the day, a teenager and to say a final good-bye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): Here at the Friendly Temple Missionary Baptist Church in St. Louis, they are preparing for a very big day. Come Monday, these seats will be full of mourners here to remember Michael Brown.

The church's special events manager, Denise Makey is busy preparing for the largest event their congregation has ever seen. They have room for more than 5,000 people.

TAPPER (on camera): On one hand, you're burying a person.

DENISE MAKEY, FRIENDLY TEMPLE MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: Correct.

TAPPER: But on the other hand, Michael Brown has become to the people of St. Louis and others a cause. How does the pastor face that challenge?

MAKEY: That's a great question. At the end of the day, he is still an individual. This is a life that has been lost and this is a family that is healing and in need of our support. From that perspective, that is our first priority.

TAPPER (on camera): The church led by Reverend Michael Jones is expecting a huge crowd for the service, which will be public at the request of the Brown family. The details of the program are still being worked out, but the eulogy will be delivered by the Reverend Al Sharpton who has been active in the political action surrounding Brown's death.

The family is hoping that the sometimes violent scenes that have played out in the streets of Ferguson for the past two weeks will not be repeated despite large crowds and substantial security presence planned for the funeral. ANTHONY GRAY, CO-COUNSEL FOR MICHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY: The family does not expect any type of violence. There may be people there demonstrating and supporting the family. You kind of expect that, but the kind of unrest that involves the police, they do not expect to see that at all.

TAPPER: It will be a very public event and likely politics will be afoot. But for the family, it is personal.

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: He was special to me. He was ours. He was peaceful. He was humble, and I'm always love him just how he was.

TAPPER (on camera): How is Reverend Jones preparing for Monday?

MAKEY: From his position as a leader, as a minister, as a pastor, he will prepare the way he does, look to God and that guidance to prepare him for the right words of comfort.

TAPPER (voice-over): The right words of comfort for a family and a community still in so much pain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: That's it for THE LEAD. I now turn you over to Brianna Keilar who is filling in for Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Have a great weekend -- Brianna.