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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Remembering Michael Brown; Interview With Missouri Congressman William Lacy Clay; Wilson Supporters: Media Choosing Sides; Hunting for the Man Who Beheaded Foley

Aired August 25, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Protests take a back seat to the prayer, as a community comes together to remember the life of Michael Brown.

I'm Jake Tapper in St. Louis. This is THE LEAD.

The national lead, family, supporters, celebrities and even a delegation from the White House all gathering in St. Louis for the funeral of slain 18-year-old Michael Brown. With so many government officials paying their respects, some supporters of officer Wilson are left asking, whatever happened to due process?

Our world lead, hypocrisy alert. The Syrian regime themselves accused of vicious crimes against their own people, are now asking for help to fight the -- quote -- "ISIS terrorists." Should the U.S. take the fight against ISIS to Syria and do we really want to make an ally out of Bashar al-Assad?

And in other world news, the international manhunt for the masked man behind the brutal murder of journalist James Foley. Could the haunting voice heard on this videotape be enough to help law enforcement track down a killer? We will break down the clues from Foley's horrific final moments.

Welcome to THE LEAD, everyone. We're coming to you live from St. Louis, Missouri, with our national lead. Thousands gathered here to say goodbye to Michael Brown, the 18-year-old whose death brought to the surface issues of racism and police brutality and economic disparity and many other issues not just in this area, but across the country, around the world really.

What we witnessed today in honor of Michael Brown was in stark contrast to the chaos that has consumed this community over the past two weeks. In keeping with requests by the Brown family to make this a day of silence and reflection, there were no protesters, there were no rallies.

This was instead a celebration of Michael Brown's life, an opportunity for his family to grieve, and it was also a call to action to members of the community that Michael's death not be in vain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC DAVIS, COUSIN OF MICHAEL BROWN: Michael was a big guy, but he was a kind, gentle soul. And before he left this earth, the day that he was killed, he was out spreading the word of Jesus Christ.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a cry being made from the ground, not just for Michael Brown, but for the Trayvon Martins, for those children at Sandy Hook Elementary School, for the Columbine massacre, for the black-on-black crime. There is a cry being made from the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have had had enough of the senseless killing. We have had enough of it. And what you guys can do to continue this is show up at the voting polls. Let your voices be heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The high-profile presence at the service was something akin to what you might see for a dignitary or a public figure with celebrities sitting alongside politicians and civil rights leaders.

Even the White House sent three staffers, including the Cabinet secretary, to pay their respects. Although he was referenced several times during the service, there was no direct mention by name of Darren Wilson, the officer who shot and killed Brown 16 days ago.

While the investigation into that shooting is ongoing, many of Wilson's supporters wonder what message it might send about his quest for justice that so many public figures were in attendance at Brown's funeral.

So with so much divisiveness in the wake of the shooting, how can this community come together and heal? That's a big question here.

Earlier today, I spoke with one of the local leaders about what's next for the people of Ferguson.

And joining me now is Congressman Lacy Clay, Democrat of Missouri who represents the area of Ferguson and the surrounding area, of course.

Congressman Clay, thanks so much for being here.

You didn't get a chance to speak. A lot of speakers were canceled from the program because it had run so late. What were you planning on saying? What was your general message going to be?

REP. WILLIAM LACY CLAY (D), MISSOURI: Well, my message was going to be to Lesley McSpadden and Michael Brown Sr., the parents of Michael Brown Jr., that they do not stand alone, that several members of the Congressional Black Caucus came here today, and we intend to stand with this family until they receive justice.

TAPPER: What does justice mean? Because there is a grand jury hearing evidence in the case. As you know, it's very difficult to get an indictment against a police officer.

And, look, neither of us were there. It's entirely possible that, according to the rules of the police, it was a -- quote, unquote -- "good shooting." What does justice mean?

CLAY: Justice to me means that the American judicial system cannot fail the family of Michael Brown.

TAPPER: But what does that mean? Does that mean he has to be sentenced?

CLAY: Look, there were numerous eyewitness reports of what occurred in the shooting.

And I tend to believe the eyewitness report. I don't believe or put too much faith in what's coming afterward. I don't -- I don't believe that, somehow, that videotape from the store was planted accidentally or that it was just found.

All of that is part of a larger plot to discredit a young man whose only crime that day was walking in the middle of the street, and you don't deserve -- you shouldn't have to die for jaywalking.

TAPPER: That's certainly true, although the account, from what we understand, is, according to officer Wilson, there was more to it than that. But you know what? Neither you or I were there, so we don't know.

Let me ask you this. I have been hearing from people who support officer Wilson, who say the presence of you, the presence of other public officials, the presence of a White House delegation, it feels unfair to them because Wilson is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

CLAY: Well, I mean, and I guess in cases of police shooting, that's standard operating procedure.

But this is not a normal case to this community. This is -- to this community, this is an execution of a young innocent man whose death was unnecessary, should have never happened. And now this community seeks justice and their own version of justice. They want to see someone punished for the wrongful death of an innocent young man.

TAPPER: Congressman Lacy Clay, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

CLAY: Thank you for having me.

TAPPER: Good to see you, sir.

CLAY: Appreciate it.

TAPPER: Some of the political figures in attendance here today have been marching alongside the protesters really ever since Brown's death.

I'm joined now by one of them, Missouri State Senator Maria Chappelle- Nadal.

Thanks so much, Senator.

You said to me earlier that you thought that there were a lot of lovely moments at the funeral, but in some cases you thought it was a missed opportunity. What do you mean?

MARIA CHAPPELLE-NADAL (D), MISSOURI STATE SENATOR: Absolutely.

And what I mean is that, you know, Michael Brown's death means so much to so many people. And what I have stated before, a lot of young people have felt the intimidation. They have felt the pain and the anger associated with harassment by officials, sometimes of which those are police officers.

And so the greatest message, I think, the greater opportunity is, is that we could have talked about young people having an opportunity to fight for their rights. In this entire discourse for the last 16 days, the First Amendment right has been taken away from numbers of young people. And there's been excruciating violence.

TAPPER: How do you think that their right of free assembly or free speech has been taken away? How so?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, I was with them when their First Amendment right was taken away from them and myself. And we were sitting peacefully. It seems as though the St. Louis County Police Department blamed peaceful protesters for the looting.

And so the following day, the first Monday after the death of Michael Brown, we incurred at least three hours of tear gas. And I have been thinking about that for a while now. And this morning, it just really came to me that it was impossible to get out of that situation and not feel injury personally.

And so for the young people that I was with, at least 100, 150 young people who were peacefully demonstrating, it was some kind of violence that they should never, ever endure. And so the message that I would have sent is, thank you so much, Mrs. McSpadden, for having a young person that you just -- you trained and that you gave him so many values.

But now it's also our opportunity to not allow for this kind of thing to happen again.

TAPPER: I want to ask you, because the protests have been so peaceful and the media is turning away from Ferguson, we haven't been there. CNN has, but not everyone in the media has been at every protest at every moment, as opposed to in weeks past. What's been going on?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, let me tell you, yesterday, I got a phone call from some protests are who have been at the police department. And they told me that they were removed yesterday early, early morning.

I also about 4:00 this morning got another text message from one of my friends who's also protesting and said that there was more harassment on the part of St. Louis County police officers at the location where it said they can peacefully protest.

TAPPER: Because we're not there, do you think?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Well, I think because the media is not there anymore, the officers feel as though they can continue to intimidate our protesters who are peacefully demonstrating. And it's unfortunate.

TAPPER: All right, state Senator Nidal, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

Much more coming up on THE LEAD. There are no celebrities or national figures here showing their support for officer Darren Wilson. Can he get a fair trial here, if it comes to that? A prosecutor from the O.J. Simpson case will join me.

And in the world lead, British authorities say they are close to unmasking the killer who beheaded American journalist James Foley, but does the video prove there was more than one murderer? A closer look coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper live in St. Louis, Missouri.

Today, the funeral for Michael Brown drew nationally recognized attendees, including celebrities and politicians and civil rights leaders and even a delegation representing the White House. But for those seeking justice for the officer who killed Brown, the star service at today's service was seen as another example of how the deck is already stacked against Officer Darren Wilson whose case is currently before a grand jury.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): Over the weekend, supporters of Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson gathered outside the South City St. Louis bar, which is popular with law enforcement.

(AUDIO GAP)

(CHEERS)

TAPPER: Those speaking out in favor of Wilson occasionally showed up proudly and defiantly in Ferguson itself during those two weeks of contentious protests.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for the police!

TAPPER: But they found common cause and greater numbers here on the other side of town. They say so many have rallied around Brown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's got hundreds of people supporting him -- and look around here. There's a handful of people but we're not looting. We're not rioting and standing up for what we believe is right.

TAPPER: The 28-year-old police officer himself seen at the scene of the shooting has not come forward since the August 9th incident.

(on camera): There isn't anyone really giving his side of the story.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that's what we're here for. We're here to speak for Darren.

TAPPER: Do you know Officer Wilson?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't.

TAPPER: Do you know Officer Wilson?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I do not.

TAPPER: Do you know Officer Wilson?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, sir.

TAPPER (voice-over): For the most part, those rallying for him do not know him. They say they are offended by how Wilson's presumption of innocence has been ignored, including this fellow police officer who would only give us his first name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here because I see myself in his shoes. We're roughly the same age. We got roughly the same amount of time on the job. I can see a situation like that happening to myself or any of my co-workers at any time. And I would want the benefit of the doubt for myself, my co-workers and anyone else in law enforcement.

TAPPER (on camera): You don't think he's been given the benefit of the doubt?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe so at all.

TAPPER (voice-over): Robin Clearmountain who once worked for the local police says the most important color here is blue.

(on camera): Why are you here?

ROBIN CLEARMOUNTAIN, DARREN WILSON SUPPORTER: Because these are my people. This is my family. Anybody that takes a bullet or takes harm to keep me safe, this is my family.

TAPPER (voice-over): Some honk their approval as they drove by. Others protested quietly on the other side of the street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why I'm here is because people on that side of the street and whatnot, they don't understand what a cop goes through.

TAPPER: A recent "New York Times"/CBS News poll that 57 percent of African-Americans think Michael Brown shooting was unjustified, 18 percent of whites hold that view.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We haven't made it about race. This is about the law. It's about doing the right thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The number of blacks arrested and the number of whites arrested, white people are scared to be down there. It's not a race issue. It's common sense.

VICTOR DEWAN, LOCAL RESIDENT: We want you out of here.

TAPPER: While we were talking to pro-Wilson protesters, a local resident Victor Dewan came by to tell the rally to go home. He says he does not trouble in the neighborhood.

DEWAN: We don't want any controversy. There's a lot of black people who live here and I want for peace.

TAPPER: As he voiced displeasure, divisions here became apparent once again.

DEWAN: I am speaking English, do you understand that?

TAPPER: The long simmering racial tensions in St. Louis continued to occasionally boil over, on both sides of town.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: While Wilson supporters accuse the media of tilting the tables against the police officer, a court date poses another potentially difficult problem. Find 12 people in St. Louis County without predetermined opinions, without prejudices to fairly carry out a grand jury hearing.

Joining me now, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson trial, Christopher Darden.

Mr. Darden, good to see you as always. In a case that is so widely covered, how do you find a grand jury or potentially a jury capable of giving Wilson a fair hearing?

CHRISTOPHER DARDEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it's not going to be easy. Obviously, everybody in the state of Missouri knows about the case as just about everyone in the country does. But there are people out there who are trying to remain open-minded and who want to wait until all the evidence is in before they form an opinion.

TAPPER: The grand jury continues to hear testimony in the Michael Brown case. Do you think -- I know that this is a very premature questions. But based on your experience when it comes to indicting is police officers, how likely do you think an indictment is based on what you know about this case?

DARDEN: I think an indictment is very likely. I think if the state grand jury failed to indict Officer Wilson, I don't think people should get too upset about it. The federal government is also conducting an investigation and quite frankly, I'd rather see a federal prosecution than a state prosecution.

TAPPER: Why do you think it's likely? I've heard from so many in the law enforcement community who say that it's clear that there was a threat to the officer, this is obviously just their take, there was a threat to the officer and he had every right to stop the threat. Why do you think an indictment is likely? DARDEN: Well, you know, when you obtain an indictment, the prosecutor

isn't required to convince the grand jury that the officer's guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The issue is whether or not there's probable cause to believe the officer committed the crime of murder. There are at least two civilian witnesses who watched the event and if you believe their statements, you have more than enough to obtain an indictment.

TAPPER: Given what we know about this case, let's -- since we're gaming this out, what about the next step in the legal process? Assuming he was indicted how difficult would it be to get a conviction of any sort?

DARDEN: Well, I think one thing that's very obvious right now is that Officer Wilson and his supporters are raising a war chest to defend this case in court. What you're going to see eventually, if the case goes to trial, you're going to see Officer Wilson supported by the best forensic experts in the country. And he's going to spend a lot of money and we found out in the past many, many times before you know, sometimes you can buy your freedom. Sometimes you can buy your justice.

But convicting a police officer of murder when on duty in uniform shooting is one of the most difficult things undertaking there is I think in the criminal law because he is a police officer, he's not just presumed innocent. There is a heightened presumption of innocence when the officer's on duty in uniform.

TAPPER: All right, Christopher Darden, thank you so much as always.

Straight ahead, an American journalist brutally killed. Investigators closing in on the suspected terrorist who wielded the knife. But could there be more than one masked man in that video?

And later, the latest from the conflict in Gaza and Israel. Israel now accusing Palestinian militants of using schools and a hospital for hiding weapons again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. And we are bringing you live coverage on the crisis in Ferguson, Missouri, and more on that coming up.

But, first, we turn to our world lead. It was a horrific act of violence that cost an American journalist his life and brought into the sharp focus just how vicious an enemy the terrorist group ISIS really is. Now the U.K. says it's close to unmasking the monster who killed James Foley and broadcast his death to the world.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIR PETER JOHN WESTMACOTT, BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: I think we're not far away from that. We're putting a lot into that. There are very sophisticated technologies, voice identification and so on which people use to check who these people are. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The promising news comes at the same time as the release of another American journalist Peter Theo Curtis who was just freed by the al Nusra Front, that's a Syrian rebel group with ties to al Qaeda. The United Nations said Curtis was handed over to U.N. peacekeepers in the Golan Heights in a deal negotiated by Qatar, a country that was critical on the release of Bowe Bergdahl. Ask the White House and no ran some was paid for Curtis. Sadly, James Foley was not as lucky.

Our Nick Paton Walsh has taken a closer look at the video that made Foley's killer so infamous, to see if the real answer to who the murderer is might be more complicated than it first seemed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, as investigators carefully examine the video looking for who committed at atrocity, there are some disturbing clues. And on closer examination of both the long speech in English and the gruesome execution, some fresh puzzles.

First, there is a clear edit in the video, which fades to black between the English accent the talker and the man who appears to carry out the beheading. And the man on the left who has the English accent appears of a different stature to the man on the right who apparently carries out the killing.

There is another problem, with continuity. The knife wielded by the English speaker different visibly from the knife left by the body of the deceased.

ROSS PATEL, AFENTIS FORENSICS: There's definitely a change of actor, a change in physique of the individual standing next to the deceased. There are noticeable, there are subtle but also noticeable changes in their build, their physical appearance, the dimensions of the knife, the style of the knife used.

WALSH: When trying to determine whether the British accented man is also the executioner, it helps to examine where his pistol is holstered. That is for use by his right hand but the executioner from the video appears left-handed. It's unclear why this happened.

PATEL: The person who was essentially the mouthpiece may not have been willing to carry through with the deed or may not have been able to.

WALSH: This could present a problem for investigators as the speaker's voice and few doubt the voice heard is that of the man on the video was one of their biggest clues.

MARTIN BARRY, VOICE FORENSIC ANALYST: The speaker is using a variety of English known as multicultural London English. That's a kind of melting pot accent that's emerged in recent years, particularly in deprived multiethnic areas of inner London. WALSH: The video contains a wealth of other data we're told like the

measurements of the face even beneath the balaclava that could help investigators sift through databases of passport photos. But it is possible the man whose voice and British-ness (ph) chilled many Westerners was not the one to carry out the killing -- Jake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much.

Coming up in our world lead, President Obama may team up with an unlikely ally to say the least in the fight against terror, Syria. We'll ask General Wesley Clark if that's the right move.

And in our money lead, one of the biggest U.S. burger chains might move its headquarters out of the United States, which means a big juicy tax break for them. Should the deal make you rethink your next drive-through run?

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