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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Interview With State Department Spokeswoman Jen Psaki; American Jihadi; Audio Recording of Ferguson Shooting?; Burger King Controversy; Interview with Former Ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford; American Missing in Israel

Aired August 26, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: An American killed, not in the fight against ISIS, but it is believed in the fight for ISIS.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The world lead. He was born in the USA, but he died in Syria as a jihadist, according to his uncle. What drove this American and others like him to a cause that most other Americans fear so greatly?

The national lead. A newly released audio recording may have captured the sounds of the gunshots that hit Michael Brown and maybe some didn't -- what a key gap on the tape could mean to the case that has the nation's attention.

And the politics lead, Canada about to become the new home of the Whopper, or at least the corporation that sells them. Where is the beef from U.S. lawmakers? Do they have a reason for letting this move go through?

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Jake Tapper. Welcome to THE LEAD.

We will begin with the world lead.

His name was Douglas McAuthur McCain. He was an American, and he still has family right here in the U.S. in California. But Douglas McCain met his death far from these shores. He met it in war-torn Syria, a convert to Islam who for some reason found himself drawn to the jihadist cause. A U.S. official says the U.S. believes he was fighting for ISIS when he died, the terrorist group, and he was not alone. Dozens of other Americans are believed to have taken a similar path.

There's a real fear that those who escape death, unlike Douglas McCain, could use their passports to come back to the USA and kill their fellow Americans.

Let's bring in our chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto.

Jim, how did Douglas McAuthur McCain end up as a dead jihadist in Syria?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's an incredible story, really remarkable, even as you mentioned, just down to that all-American name, Douglas McAuthur McCain.

I spoke with his uncle a short time ago, Kenneth McCain. He told me the family just is devastated, just as surprised as the country is right now. He gave me a little bit of the sense of the evolution here. McCain was raised a Christian. A few years ago, he converted to Islam. The family was not concerned. They say they are open to all faiths as they should be.

But more recently he began to post on Twitter and Facebook postings sympathetic to radical groups in Syria, including ISIS. Those were the first warning signs, but still the family says they didn't know that he was going to go fight and die in Syria. Several months ago, he did say he was going to travel to Turkey because he liked to travel. That's it. That was the last they heard of him until 24 hours ago, the State Department notified the family that, in fact, had he gone to Syria to fight and he died there.

We're told by U.S. officials, one, that he was fighting for ISIS, two, as well, that he was on a terror watch list in part because of some of those postings he made before he went there, but also, as you and I have discussed a number of times, Jake, U.S. intelligence watching these kinds of movements very closely so that when someone like this travels to Syria -- to Turkey, which is often an entry point into the Syria, that raises red flags.

So they were aware of him before he, sadly, turned up dead there. But, as you mentioned as well, he's not the only one. The U.S. believes as many as 100 Americans have gone to fight in Syria. As you highlight, the concern is, what do they do when they come home? Do they set off attacks here? And that's a real concern.

TAPPER: Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

Now for the other big Syria news today. The last time the United States pierced Syria's airspace, to our knowledge, was early this summer as part of an attempt to find and rescue American journalist James Foley and other hostages held by the terrorist group ISIS. Tragically, that mission was not successful.

But now officials tell CNN the president has given the OK for American spy planes to cross into the safe haven of the violent al Qaeda offshoot, Syria, not just in Iraq, but also in Syria. The flights could begin any moment, if they have not already, and all expectations are these recon missions could be a bellwether, a sign of more airstrikes against the terror group, except in Syria.

Crossing of course into the airspace of a country where 191,000 people have died in a raging civil war, according to the United Nations, puts President Obama in the awkward position of trying to stop ISIS without getting pulled into a conflict he has long tried to avoid.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has those details -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Jake, reconnaissance flights over Syria, well, spying on ISIS indeed is one thing. But is President Obama really prepared to take the next step and start bombing?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): From President Obama, a threat and a promise.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Justice will be done. We have proved time and time again we will do what's necessary to capture those who harm Americans. And we will continue to take direct action where needed to protect our people and to defend our homeland.

STARR: But, as the U.S. prepares to potentially militarily confront ISIS, the Pentagon will say little about the reconnaissance flights President Obama authorized over Syria.

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: I am not going to talk about intelligence matters.

STARR: An administration official tells CNN that drones have flown over Iraq near the border with Syria to pick up whatever intelligence they can about ISIS troops, convoys, weapons and training camps just inside Syria, anything on targets that could be hit to disrupt their brutal campaign of murder and intimidation.

U.S. satellites have already gathered some information. ISIS communications are also being monitored. But now the U.S. needs to get real-time intelligence. It will be tough. One of the type of drones being used, sources say, a Global Hawk like this. It can fly at up to 60,000 feet and is specially equipped to gather targeting information on fixed and mobile targets, exactly the type of information on ISIS the U.S. wants.

Washington will not acknowledge if drones have penetrated Syrian airspace, a move that would violate Syria's sovereignty, U.S. officials say. But once the intel is in hand, would U.S. bombers have to cross into Syria to strike? Perhaps. One option, B-1 bombers flying at high altitude dropping precision bombs. But many say airstrikes alone will not defeat ISIS.

REP. MICHAEL TURNER (R), OHIO: These isolated military actions can only result in more difficulty. The president needs to put together his national security team, the Department of Defense, and put together a plan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Always the law of unintended consequences out there. Military planners say they're looking at the prospect if there were to be U.S. airstrikes, would that actually help Syrian President Bashar al- Assad's regime, who is also fighting ISIS, Jake?

TAPPER: Barbara Starr, thank you so much.

Let's bring in State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki for a response to all this.

JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: Hi, Jake.

TAPPER: Hi, Jen.

So, first of all, let's start with Douglas McAuthur McCain. We're told he was on the terrorist watch list. How long had the U.S. government been tracking him?

PSAKI: Well, Jake, there's very little I can say here.

Obviously, these reports are new. I can say we have been in touch with the family. I think reports like this do raise this issue, which is our concern about the growing threat from ISIL, the growing concern we have about individuals who have Western passports who are able to gain access, whether it's the United States or other allies in Western Europe.

That's one of the reasons that this is top of our agenda and a topic of discussion internally in the administration right now.

TAPPER: Jen, how many people do you think there are in ISIS who have Western or United States, more specifically, passports?

PSAKI: Well, there have been a range of numbers that have been out there. Secretary Holder has said dozens in the past. There are other estimates from Europe.

I think it's enough of a concern that the president is going to be chairing a meeting at UNGA with the Security Council and with many countries around the world to have our concern, to discuss where we should go from here.

We have increased our capacity. We have increased our tracking. We have increased our coordination, but clearly this is a threat that we take seriously enough to put it at the front and center of our agenda.

TAPPER: But if he was known, he was on the terrorist watch list -- specifically, I guess, from Jim's reporting, that it was because of postings on Facebook that were sympathetic to some of these terrorists or extremist groups -- I guess the question is, of the dozens or more who have Western passports, Americans and Europeans who are fighting for ISIS, does the United States and do our European allies know who all of them are or is it kind of a mystery?

PSAKI: Well, Jake, obviously, I can't go into much detail here.

But I can convey that we are working and coordinating with our European counterparts to track those that we can. And, obviously, we have the prerogative at the State Department, in coordination with law enforcement authorities, to revoke passports when it comes to a point where somebody is working with a terrorist organization or posing a threat to the American public.

But there are obviously a number of other steps that need to be taken, including addressing the threat that ISIL faces -- ISIL poses to our interests and to the interests of our allies. TAPPER: I guess the question is for those of us trying to figure out

how big a threat this is, are all of those Americans and Europeans who have these passports and who are fighting for ISIS, would all of them be stopped before they get on the plane, or is that a promise that the U.S. government can't really make at this point?

PSAKI: Well, again, Jake, I can't go into too many details here, in large part because we don't want to relay every step that we take to protect American citizens.

But I can convey that we are continuing to increase every step possible here to make sure that these individuals don't pose a threat to American interests, that those who are working with terrorist organizations are not able to come into the United States.

But, you know, that's something that we will continue to work on and we're continuing to do more to address.

TAPPER: About President Obama's decision over the weekend to authorize surveillance over Syria, which is seen as perhaps a first step before bombing ISIS targets in Syria, what changed so President Obama made this decision?

PSAKI: Well, the president hasn't made a decision about steps to be taken, but as we have those discussions internally in the administration about how to take on the threat of ISIL, which, again, is not limited by border geography, we are obviously going to take steps to make sure we have the most up-to-date information.

And there's many ways that we can do that. So that is ongoing at this point in time, and is certainly natural as we prepare to make decisions about what's next.

TAPPER: Jen Psaki, thank you so much.

PSAKI: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: And we're going to continue this conversation about the threat from ISIS and the decision to put drones over Syria with the former Ambassador Robert Ford in the next segment coming up.

In addition to that, a newly released audiotape may have captured the final seconds of Michael Brown's life in the background. You will be able to hear it for yourself.

Also ahead, a New Jersey family rushes halfway around the world after their son goes missing just outside Jerusalem. We will speak with Aaron Sofer's brother about the family's fears.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

We're going to continue now with our world lead. The president's approval of spy planes in Syrian air space to take out ISIS. But, first, let's take a step back for one moment. This week marks a year since Bashar al Assad used sarin gas on his own people.

It's also been two years this week since President Obama uttered his red line pledge that use of chemical weapons would, quote, "change his calculus" against that ruthless dictator.

The chemical weapons are now reportedly destroyed but the violent civil war continues with no sign of slowing. The United Nations now estimates 191,000 people have died since the regime began taking aim at its own citizens. Now, we're finally talking about military action in Syria but it's not to stop Assad or put a stop to the killing. It's to take on the terrorist group ISIS trying to topple the Syrian government for its own gain -- a complicated, complicated story.

Let's bring in Robert Ford. He's the former U.S. ambassador to Syria, who resigned his post in Syria. At the time, he said he couldn't justify the administration's policy there. He's also senior fellow at the Middle East Institute.

Thank you so much, Mr. Ambassador. Appreciate your being here.

We've been hearing about the fears that the U.S. government and European governments have about these jihadists fighting in Syria with passports. Now, we have the story of Douglas McArthur McCain, an American from California killed there. We have the story of the British, the video of the British guy from ISIS and that horrible video with James Foley.

How many Western jihadists fighting for the opposition in Syria are we talking about? And how much of a threat do they pose to the homeland?

ROBERT FORD, SENIOR FELLOW, THE MIDDLE EAST INSTITUTE: I don't think we have an exact number, Jake. But we certainly think it's in the hundreds.

TAPPER: Hundreds.

FORD: In the hundreds. When I was working with counterparts from European governments, France, Belgium, Germany, they estimated there were hundreds of European citizens fighting in Syria on behalf of radical groups there. In fact, our French counterpart said they thought there were maybe as many as four times as many French citizens fighting in Syria as there ever were in Afghanistan.

So, the problem is a lot bigger than it was say in Afghanistan. And, of course, we have the problem with the American citizens, too. While we're thinking about the young man Douglas McArthur today, we shouldn't forget that just a couple of months ago, a different young man who ended up dying in Syria managed to get back to see his family in Florida and then go back out to the jihad again which just demonstrates how hard it is to track these people.

TAPPER: Well, that makes me wonder how much we know about who these individuals are. I understand it's a very difficult job. But Jen Psaki tried to put on a good face to it. But the truth is we probably don't know who most of them are.

FORD: I think we probably know more now in August, 2014 and than we did a year ago in 2013, or even at the start of the year, but it doesn't take much if you have one or two bad mistakes, it's going be a major problem. Let us hope that does not happen.

TAPPER: Now, it's no secret that you resigned as ambassador to Syria because of your frustration with administration policy in Syria. Are you seeing the same types of problems that you didn't like and protested then -- are you seeing them today with the administration's policies in Syria?

FORD: Well, I think the problem we had in the winter and when I decided to leave was we wanted to get peace talks under way in Syria but we could not put enough pressure on the regime. We would not put enough pressure on the regime to get it to the table.

Now, we have a somewhat different problem linked to the first problem. Now, we have an Islamic State which is a threat not only to the region out there but a threat to our interests, as well. There have been really blood-curdling threats made by the Islamic State against us on things like their Twitter feed. I think we have to take them at their word.

And so in a sense, the Syrian civil war is little by little is starting to reach out and touch us.

TAPPER: Yes, but I wonder if you're concerned that any attempt to stop ISIS will only end up helping the guy who the United States almost went to war or at least bombed a year ago, Bashar al Assad. It would seem that -- I know Ben Rhodes, deputy national security advisor, said today the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. But we could end up -- the United States could end up helping him if we go after ISIS.

FORD: Well, it's a three-way civil war in Syria now, Jake. There is one side which is still moderate and which is not threatening the United States and is looking to cut a political deal to end the civil war. That is the moderate armed opposition. They too are fighting the Islamic state. In fact, they're fighting the Islamic state a lot harder than Bashar al Assad has been.

So, if there are things we can do to curtail, to block the Islamic State, to chop it down a bit in size, that will help the moderate opposition and I think that's positive. I'm not so worried about helping Bashar al Assad -- Bashar al Assad's forces just lost a major air base in north central Syria. I think his forces these days are falling back bit by bit.

TAPPER: All right. Former ambassador to Syria, Robert Ford, thank you so much for your thoughts. We appreciate your time.

Still coming up, Israel and Hamas agreeing to a cease-fire, but it may it be little comfort to the family of an American missing in the chaos there. An update on the search for him next from his brother.

And some fast food lovers have a beef with Burger King. How a move that would lower the chain's tax bill might cost BK some customers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

The world lead: Israelis and Palestinians putting a temporary halt to the 50-day war that has claimed more than 2,100 Palestinians and nearly 70 Israelis. Hamas announced a cease-fire and declared victory, cheers and gunfire echoing through the ravaged Gaza streets.

This is the same Egyptian-backed proposal that was accepted and fell apart and agreed to again before yet collapsing again. The difference this time around is the hold on death and destruction will not expire in five days. That's the hope anyway. But the momentary peace is overshadowed for at least one family by a

familiar sense of dread. An American student, 23-year-old Aaron Sofer, went missing late Friday in the Jerusalem forest. That's where the charred body of an Arab teen was found last month, just two days after Israeli forces discovered the bodies of three Israeli teens in a field. Their murders, the act that incited the conflict and launches thousands of rockets and mortars and missiles from both sides.

Joining me on the phone is the brother of the missing student, Joel Sofer.

Joel, we're so sorry to hear the news. We're, of course, hoping for the best. What is your family hearing right now from Israeli police?

JOEL SOFER, BROTHER OF MISSING AMERICAN STUDENT AARON SOFER (via telephone): We are (INAUDIBLE). We hope to find our brother Aaron and, you know, just praying hard and doing everything we could do.

TAPPER: And he was just going for a hike with a friend of his, and he vanished? Is that what happened?

SOFER: What was that?

TAPPER: He was hiking with a friend of his and vanished?

SOFER: Right, yes, yes.

TAPPER: Do police seem to have any idea where your brother might be?

SOFER: I don't have any idea. They were searching and searching.

And, you know, that place where the forest was where he got lost, I actually was over there today on site and, you know, there's nothing. They have no evidence. They can't find anything.

TAPPER: Tell us about your brother. What's he like? What was he doing in Israel?

Joel, we seem to have lost a connection with him. But, obviously we're hoping for the best for Aaron Sofer.

Let's go now to Ben Wedeman who is there is covering this for CNN. Ben, what can you tell us about this missing American boy?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This 23-year-old man was -- went missing in the Jerusalem forest, which is west of the city. A popular area for exactly what he was doing, hiking, just before the Sabbath. And now, according to Micky Rosenfeld, the spokesman for the Israeli police there, doing a massive search in the area of the Jerusalem forest.

Apparently, he was with a companion when he disappeared. They were going down a very steep incline and got separated when that companion got to the bottom, he couldn't find Aaron, and therefore, he contacted the police. The police asked him a lot of questions and they continue to search. Now, they don't know at this point what could have happened to him. They're looking at all possibilities.

But certainly, after the June 12th abduction and subsequent murder of those three Israeli teenagers on the west bank, that concern is there that this may be a politically motivated abduction, but at this point, the Israeli police are staying away from that possibility but as I said, they are investigating all possible avenues -- Jake.

TAPPER: Ben Wedeman, thanks.

We have Joel Sofer back on the phone.

Joel, I want to just ask you if you could tell us a little bit about your brother, what he was doing in Israel, for example.

SOFER: Again, what was that?

TAPPER: If you could just tell us a little bit about your brother and for instance, what was he doing in Israel?

SOFER: He was studying. He's studying in Israel and he's serious about studying, and you know, he was -- he's a very, very good boy. And he was just you know, now they have -- they don't have any school now. He was going to take a little break.

TAPPER: All right. Joel, we wish you and your family the best of luck, of course, and hope he'll be found and he'll be alive and well. Thank you so much for talking to us. We'll stay on the story.

Coming up on THE LEAD, could a new audio tape be the most reliable clue yet what happened the moment Michael Brown was gunned down by police? We'll let you listen to a new piece of potential evidence that has caught the attention of the FBI.

And later, it almost sounds like an episode of "Seinfeld" but instead of sparing a square, one airline passenger refused to spare an inch. Hear about a scuffle in the sky over the right to recline.

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