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The Lead with Jake Tapper

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell Holds Press Conference; NFL Changing Domestic Violence Policy

Aired September 19, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Katie, what has the NFL actually said to you about what they are going to be doing with your organization?

KATIE RAY-JONES, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NATIONAL DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HOTLINE: Well, they have approached us and -- once they became aware of the impact the Ray Rice video had on our organization and said that they wanted to help us the best that they could.

We were clear about the needs of our organization. And they have offered financial and operational support to help us answer more calls and chats from victims and survivors of domestic violence.

COOPER: So, essentially, they're giving you money to increase your ability to field calls?

RAY-JONES: Absolutely. And, as of this morning, we were able to hire eight more advocates to be able to begin to address our issues right now.

COOPER: Can you say how much money they are giving you?

RAY-JONES: I can't. But I can say it's a multimillion-dollar commitment over multiple years.

COOPER: Do you believe that they are serious in addressing -- have you actually had direct conversation with Roger Goodell?

RAY-JONES: I have, yes. I was able to have a conversation with him and other members of his team.

What I am hearing, what he said in his statement was that he's admitting he made a mistake, and he's working to correct it and that they're engaging many voices to make sure that they get it right and that this is a teachable moment for many people in America.

COOPER: What do you believe -- do you believe that they can get it right? Or do you believe -- there are some people listening to this press conference who would said, well, look, you can say, we're doing all this stuff, we hope to do all this stuff, we plan to do all this stuff. There's very little that they actually announced today besides working with your organization and one other organization.

RAY-JONES: I think they're realizing how much maybe they didn't know about domestic violence and that it's important to gather information and hear from a lot of different folks, as we hear -- we heard Roger Goodell say that in law enforcement, domestic violence experts, sexual assault experts -- there are so many different people who have different views.

It's important to bring all those folks together to make sure you have a solid plan in place. And it's what many employers need to be doing at this time.

COOPER: Katie, I appreciate you being with us.

Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," is joining us, political commentator, as well as host of CNN's "SMERCONISH."

Michael, what did you make of what you heard?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think he came to make no news. I think that he scheduled a press conference for a Friday afternoon so as to perhaps thwart, kill those stories that said, where the heck is Roger Goodell and why haven't we heard from him in a number of days?

But I think it was very well-choreographed that would be contrite, that he would speak to a variety on issues without offering too many specifics. And in that regard, I think he was probably successful. But I think that there are more questions remaining than were answered in the last hour.

COOPER: Yes, it's interesting, Michael. A number of the things he did say, he said he's not considered resigning. That probably surprised some people who feel he should at the very least have considered it. He said, we need experts to help with us due process, with policies.

Did you buy this -- that would seem to be a particular refrain of his, that, but we need help, we need help in understanding our policies, our process. Why is it so complicated for them to figure out their policies and process?

SMERCONISH: Well, I found it significant that he wrapped this as a societal issue. I think what I heard him say is that it's really not just an NFL problem, that it's something that affects society at large.

And I have to say, Anderson, if you look at some of the data -- "USA Today" maintains a database about arrests of NFL players and scrapes with the law. The 538 blog has digested that. And they have come away saying that the arrest rate for those in the NFL is actually less than men of that age for society at large, and in particular on domestic violence.

I don't think he wants to say what I just said because I don't think that's the way you do damage control. But I think he'd like that message to be known at the same time, that the NFL's not dealing with anything that society at large isn't dealing with.

COOPER: Michael Smerconish, host of "SMERCONISH," also the Smerconish program on SiriusXM, thanks for being with us. Want to thank all of those who have been with us. I want to hand it over now to our Jake Tapper and THE LEAD -- Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Anderson. I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell wrapping a news conference just moments ago. If you had to pick the most publicly reviled man in the NFL right now, you would have plenty of options among all those players accused of various forms of abuse.

But Goodell would be a prime candidate as well because he is, after all, the man who is supposed to be policing these giant, powerful, wealthy athletes. He's the man who's accused of handing out slaps on the wrists for punches in the face.

Nine days ago, Goodell pleaded ignorance about how the video of now former Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice punching his wife. Since then, he's been invisible, even as we learned that Jonathan Dwyer of the Arizona Cardinals is accused of head-butting his wife after she turned him down for sex. And Adrian Peterson of the Minnesota Vikings is accused of beating his son with a tree branch or switch.

Well, moments ago, Goodell broke his silence of more than a week, announcing that the NFL will mandate education and training for players and staff about how to prevent abuse, because apparently the problem is some of them still don't know it's wrong to hit women or children.

Goodell also promised to change league policies, although he did not get too specific.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER GOODELL, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE COMMISSIONER: We will implement new conduct policies. They will have a set of clear and transparent rules for league and club personnel, owners and players.

My goal is to complete this by the Super Bowl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: By the Super Bowl. And then Goodell took questions. And the reporters in the room had notepads full of them after the events of recent days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Have you considered resigning at any point throughout this?

GOODELL: I have not. I'm focused on doing my job.

QUESTION: Why do you feel like you should be able to continue in this role?

GOODELL: Because I acknowledged my mistake. August 28, I have said we didn't get this right.

QUESTION: How willing are you to give up some of that power? And do you think that that would that be the right thing for you to do?

GOODELL: Well, Rachel, as I said in my statement, everything is on the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's get some reaction now to the NFL commissioner's comments.

Robert Klemko is the senior NFL writer for "Sports Illustrated."

But let's begin with Rachel Nichols, the host of CNN's "UNGUARDED."

You just heard one of her questions and answers.

Rachel, you were inside the room when Goodell made his remarks. Do you think that what he said today will at the very least quell some of the intensity of the criticism?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think he had to get up here and address the questions. I think until you come and start to do that, the questions will only multiply.

People have been looking for some sort of leadership from him on this issue. And at least he stood in front for quite a period of time, frankly, and took those punches. But as he said in the beginning of his speech, these are just words. He made the point to say that he has made these mistakes and it shouldn't be just us believing him now that he says he's going to fix things and do better. We have to see action.

And I think that most people watching the NFL feel that way. They want to see the results. These words are nice. But they want to see some concrete action.

TAPPER: Robert, you heard the commissioner say that the NFL is putting together some new conduct policy to deal with domestic violence cases. What does that mean for players currently being impacted, like the lack of a clear-cut policy? For instance, Ray Rice is appealing his season-long suspension; 49ers player Ray McDonald, he's been accused of domestic violence, but he's still playing.

How will the formation of this new committee change their situations at all?

ROBERT KLEMKO, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": Well, I think that the commissioner has already committed in the case of Ray Rice to not hear the appeal himself.

He did say that the new conduct group could be in place by Christmas -- I'm sorry -- by the Super Bowl. With the NFL, it's a safe bet that it will take that long. I doubt that that group would be the one hearing Ray Rice's appeal. It was interesting to me to hear the commissioner decline to commit to

having outside -- outsiders other than NFL personnel on that council. It was very vague throughout the entire press conference, which has been a trademark of his press conferences throughout his reign as commissioner.

TAPPER: Rachel, let's get to something you asked the commissioner about the confusion over what steps the league did or did not take to get access to that elevator video of former Ravens star Ray Rice hitting his then-fiancee, now-wife. Let's take a listen.

All right, we don't have that sound.

But, in any case, I guess, Rachel, one of the questions was, were you surprised when you asked about why they didn't have access to the tape that TMZ had access to, that they didn't have -- they hadn't already discussed this with the security team?

NICHOLS: Yes, look, we have been looking for these answers pretty much since TMZ posted that tape, right? How does a Web site have better security and investigation than the NFL offices, who are one of the most powerful businesses in the entire country, who have teams of former FBI agents and former police officers working for them?

And then CNN has also learned the Atlantic City Police Department, the Atlantic city prosecutor's office don't have any electronic records of being asked for this video and for additional information. The NFL has said over and over again, hey, we tried to get the video from the police or the prosecutor's office. They're telling us they don't have electronic records of that.

We're going to dig deeper and see if there are any other conversations. But obviously there's a discrepancy here and it's something that needs to be addressed. And it's something, frankly that the former director of the FBI, Robert Mueller, is supposed to be looking into. But you also heard me ask the commissioner about that. There are some questions there as well.

And it's just sort of leading a lot of people to say, when can we trust this organization again? Because, hey, they want to. People love the NFL in this country.

TAPPER: Robert Klemko of "Sports Illustrated," let me ask you.

This was actually a very smooth press conference. He had obviously been coached, had met with crisis management experts. He'd met with public relations professionals. I'm extrapolating just because he seemed to have answers for a lot of questions.

What actual news came out, beyond him saying he's sorry, beyond him saying -- beyond the rhetoric? What actual facts do we know? What is going to change about the NFL?

KLEMKO: Well, he did commit to, as we mentioned, the formation of a personal conduct appeals body. That's new. Outside of that, there really wasn't anything else. He consistently

alluded to Robert Mueller's investigation, which Rachel expertly relayed the public confidence doubts in Robert Mueller's role there. Outside of that, he defected -- to Mueller on a lot of different questions based on the handling of the Ray Rice case. And pretty much any other aspect of this press conference was talking in circles in a lot of ways.

TAPPER: Although smoothly so.

The commissioner announced new initiatives being implemented in the wake of these controversies. A letter sent to team owners calls for all NFL personnel to undergo training on domestic violence and sexual assault prevention, along with some funding for domestic violence hot lines, as well as significant resources for domestic violence awareness and support for victims.

Joining me now is Katie Ray-Jones. She's the president and CEO of the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

Katie, did you hear anything in what the commissioner had to say, beyond the funding for the Hotline, that made you think they get it, they really finally understand the problem of domestic violence and they are really -- this is not just public relations smoke and mirrors, they are on my side?

RAY-JONES: Well, after working in this field for almost 18 years, what I heard was that they're going to take their time to really be thoughtful and bring a lot of people to the table to make sure that they have a lot of voices represented.

Working this field for so long, I'm aware of the complexities of domestic violence and how it's not a black-and-white issue, and it is important to be very thoughtful and bring the right people to the table. So, that's what I heard, that they -- I think they're definitely aware of how complex it is and are trying to do the right thing.

TAPPER: As an expert in this issue, do you think that an organization should set a policy that is any time there is even just an accusation of domestic violence, that person should be suspended, or do you think there actually needs to be some sort of legal process, some sort of conclusion, adjudication, the person is found guilty?

RAY-JONES: Well, I'm definitely not an employee attorney. So I don't think I have the legal expertise to...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: No, but just your opinion, your take on it.

RAY-JONES: Well, I think that it's important for employers to be thoughtful of what they're going to do and not be in a reactive state.

So from us, as a victim's standpoint, it's important that victims have protections in place in their workplace to ensure that they're not fired if they come forward and say, I need help, or that they have the rights to take time off work to get a court order or to seek shelter. These are things that we need as victims advocates to say that you have a right to these, so you don't have to worry about your job or your employment if you do make the case that there is domestic violence.

TAPPER: I want to play some sound now from the press conference with Roger Goodell talking about the Ray Rice video and his initial reaction, the initial reaction of the NFL. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Regardless of what Mr. Rice said on June 16, regardless of what was on that second videotape, on the initial summons, it clearly says that Mr. Rice struck Janay Palmer with his hand, rendering her unconscious. Why wasn't it enough then to put this right?

GOODELL: Well, it was.

And we saw obviously the original video. And it was clear that a domestic violence violation had occurred. That was clear to us. And it was horrifying. And that's why we took the step we did. We did the two-game suspension and a fine of $500,000. It was not sufficient.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Katie Ray-Jones of the National Domestic Violence Hotline, let me ask you.

Miguel Marquez, a reporter from CNN, who made it very clear, as others have pointed out, everyone who was paying attention to this case, including Roger Goodell, knew in February that according to law enforcement, Ray Rice hit his then-fiancee so hard, he knocked her unconscious. He got a two-game suspension and a $500,000 fine.

It was only later after TMZ got that video that actually showed that horrific act that the full suspension and the full weight and the full discussion of this happened. Does society need pictures in order for there to be action on these issues? Shouldn't the February summons, the February law enforcement act been enough?

RAY-JONES: One would hope that what we heard back in February and what we were seeing even of the video of someone being dragged out of the elevator without a sign of empathy or concern shown towards Janay Rice was quite compelling. So as someone in this field, I would hope that people didn't need a video. One in four women, one in seven men will suffer physical violence from an intimate partner.

Those are startling statistics. We received 700 calls a day at the National Domestic Violence Hotline. So, we know the prevalence is there. It's shocking we need an image to get a national conversation started, most certainly.

TAPPER: What's been happening with the NFL on these high-profile domestic cases, had an impact on the number of people calling in to your hotline? And if so, as I believe it has, why do you think that is?

RAY-JONES: So, just last week after the video was released, we saw an 84 percent increase in our call volume, which is overwhelming to a hotline such as ours. Definitely when I talk about domestic violence and people show a lot of compassion about the issue. But when you have a face behind it, people have a different reaction when they see the imagery.

So, it is time for us to begin to talk about the prevalence. I think I was very encouraged last week with the social media efforts, the hashtags we were saying around #whyIstayed, #whyIleft, being able to create a space for victims and survivors to talk about the complexity of domestic violence, the hopelessness they feel, the fear, the lack of self-worth. This is a time for us to really understand how complex this issue is.

TAPPER: So, your organization is obviously going to be involved with the NFL in helping them move forward and implementing the changes. What kind of awareness, what kind of recommendations do you think you're going to be making?

You've talked about the need for thoughtful responses. And in addition to protecting the victims, what do you think is going to be a priority for your organization and other domestic violence advocacy groups?

RAY-JONES: I think it's really important for us to communicate that etch the commitment to the national domestic Violence Hotline has to be a first step. There's lots of organizations across this country, we have historically been under-resourced. When you support the National Domestic Violence Hotline, you need to think about the impact that then makes the state coalitions and local programs. It's going to be our job to really communicate that to the NFL.

Additionally, just given the sheer volume of victims that we speak with on a weekly, daily basis, I've always felt it's the job of the National Domestic Violence Hotline to really take the voice of survivors and victims across this country and inform the public of what they're experiencing every day.

TAPPER: All right. Katie Ray-Jones of the National Domestic Violence Hotline -- thank you so much. And thank you for the work that you do.

Joining me now on the phone is NFL Hall of Famer and founder of gosmallbiz.com, Fran Tarkenton.

Mr. Tarkenton, thank you so much for joining us.

The commissioner said today, no uncertain terms, he will not resign. Do you think he should resign?

FRAN TARKENTON, NFL HALL OF FAMER (via telephone): That's not even the question. I'm just outraged that hearing that press conference, hearing the interviews that I've been sitting here waiting to get on with you is pretty simple. Are we going to allow men to knock out women, abuse women, knock out children and we're going to have to wait six months to get spin control and get some people in here and buy out some more people?

I played for 18 years in this league. I've seen cover-ups in this league just like we see in Washington, just like we see on Wall Street. And it continues on.

This is the same group of people that deny the effect of concussions on brain damage and did that up until 2009 and now paying an $800 million fine for doing that.

A new study that they had to make authorized by the NFL -- listen to this. The report said 28 percent of the overall football population will be diagnosed with cognitive impairment during their lifetime. How about that? We don't really address that.

We haven't addressed the notion that a lot of the cause of this is performance-enhancing drugs. We've had drugs in the NFL since I came up in 1961 and they were in the form of amphetamines. And then they went to steroids in the '70s.

And now they're so powerful, that they're putting 50, 60, 70 pounds on these guys. It makes them bigger, faster, stronger. And now, we're getting more injuries and who talks about that? Nobody. CNN doesn't talk about it.

TAPPER: Well, without getting into what CNN's covered, I mean, Mr. Tarkenton, it sounds like you're basically saying -- I don't want to put words in your mouth, so tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying the NFL is a corrupt organization. Is that -- am I mischaracterizing what you're saying?

TARKENTON: I'll give you Al Davis, the former owner of the Oakland Raiders. His saying was, win, baby, win. Roger Goodell doesn't have the power of the president of the United States in the NFL. It's 32 owners have him by the neck. If he doesn't do what they want him to do and they're about winning, they're all billionaires. And they all get excited and the adrenaline of winning.

You see them on the sidelines. Their necks are popping out and they're patting people on the back and they're so excited about winning. And they're looking the other way because in their locker room, we got people that are abusing kids and abusing women and they're doing illegal drugs to make them bigger, faster.

Look at their bodies. They see it and they know it, and they don't acknowledge it because it's win, baby, win. This is the most whitewashed press conference I've ever seen. We have a national epidemic of this type of violence. It's got a platform because of the popular tiff of the NFL. And now they just want their star players to play.

And until the players, until the public, until the fans reach out and say, this is nonsense, this is awful, this is terrible -- and that's the only thing that's going to bring these teams back to sanity to say, OK, we're going to make Adrian Peterson not play and some of these other players. And in San Francisco, they're still playing a guy that's been accused, called 911, assaulted a girlfriend or white, bloodied and beaten. And now they're still letting him play. They should not let these people play.

TAPPER: Well, let me ask you, Frank, because you've been very outspoken about the decision when the Minnesota Vikings, your old team, decided to keep Adrian Peterson -- allowed him to play even after the child abuse allegations, you were very outspoken calling for other former NFL players to take a stand like you did.

Obviously, they reversed that decision. Peterson's not going to be playing. But what do you think should be the standard? Someone is accused of a crime and therefore they don't play, where do you draw the line?

TARKENTON: I think when someone is going through the process of domestic violence and they have -- and we've got evidence of that has occurred, they should be suspended immediately. Let the process work out. They should not be allowed to play.

Look what's happening at Florida State with Jameis Winston. Look at the cover-up that you know (INAUDIBLE) cover-up, after a woman came out and said she had been sexually abused by him and it was a cover-up from the administration of Florida State University, the Tallahassee police department and so forth. And then look at his track record now. Now we've got him with the most lewd language that I've ever heard. And now they're going to suspend him for half a game.

TAPPER: Suspend him for half a game. I hear you.

TARKENTON: I mean, where do we stop? It will not stop until you people in the press to us ex-players, to the fans, say, I've had enough of this. You know?

TAPPER: But we are covering it right now. Fran, stay with us.

I want to bring in a couple of other people. CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, and, of course, Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH", as well as crisis management expert, Gene Grabowski.

Mike, let me start with you. There's been a lot of public outrage to this. Do you feel like the commissioner was hard enough on himself and his handling of these scandals to satisfy fans, Michael?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, "SMERCONISH": Well, on a visceral level, I feel much like Fran Tarkenton just spoke on the issue. But the lawyer in me says we've got to be more respecting of due process rights. I don't think the proper standard is to say that someone's been accused and consequently even before its run system, it's run its distance in the process, we're not going to let them, we're not going to let if that's their endeavor. How you balance those two, that's the dilemma the league faces.

TAPPER: Jeffrey, let me ask you about, the league still obviously has no plan in place to deal with players who have been accused but not convicted of crimes. As some of the questions at the press conference made it clear and as Fran Tarkenton just illustrated, it's just a mishmash. I mean, some people accused have been suspended, other people convicted, still playing. I mean, where do you begin?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the press conference was an elaborate exercise in kicking the can down the road. He said, we made a mistake and we'll have a policy in place maybe by the Super Bowl. It wasn't clear to me whether the policy will be in place by the Super Bowl or the committee will be in place by the Super Bowl.

TAPPER: By the Super Bowl?

TOOBIN: Yes.

TAPPER: By the Super Bowl? That's a fairly long way away.

TOOBIN: The season just started.

TAPPER: It means like next season level.

TOOBIN: Let me just point out one thing. I think one of his strategies was sort of a soul-killing dullness in not responding about -- except to say that there were mistakes made in the past. One question that was asked was about Ray McDonald. Ray McDonald is a player on the San Francisco 49ers who has been arrested for domestic violence but not yet charged in the legal system. He's still playing.

TAPPER: Right.

TOOBIN: He's the only one -- Adrian Peterson is not playing. Ray Rice is not playing. But he is still playing with this charge against him. Given the non-change, the non-policy announcement, he apparently can keep playing indefinitely.

TAPPER: Right, the owner of the 49ers must be pretty happy about that fact.

TOOBIN: I guess so. But just to show even when you don't announce something, as he did not announce the new policy, it has a very clear implication for Ray McDonald who is welcomed to keep playing in the NFL.

TAPPER: Michael Smerconish, I know you have to go, so I want to get one more question in for you before you bolt. And that is, there's been a lot of criticism of how the NFL has handled the Ray Rice situation. Should there be criticism at the prosecutors, at law enforcement, how that situation was handled across the river in New Jersey?

SMERCONISH: Absolutely. In fact, I place a higher priority on figuring out what went wrong with the judicial system than I do with regard to the NFL. I mean, these are folks who are charged with the responsibility of bringing a legal, criminal action. They are our representatives.

And I asked a Howard Baker question, you know, what did they know of the tape and when did they know it? That's not been answered to my satisfaction. I'm told and I have studied the issue, that it was handled in a typical fashion of similar domestic cases, and therefore, it really seems to be an indictment of the whole process, at least the way in which it's handled in Atlantic County, New Jersey.

TAPPER: Gene, if I could go to you. We've seen sponsor after sponsor come forward, speaking out against the NFL -- McDonald's, Verizon, PepsiCo, Anheuser-Busch, millions of dollars from them go to the league. Procter & Gamble announced yesterday that it would end its breast awareness partnership with the league, saying a statement, quote, "domestic violence is completely unacceptable and we have strongly urged the NFL to take swift and decisive action to address this issue. We will determine future actions as needed."

Goodell said he has no plans to resign. But if the sponsors do more than what they've done so far, do you think there will be pressure on team owners and ultimately on Goodell to leave?

GENE GRABOWSKI, CRISIS MANAGEMENT EXPERT: I do believe that the pressure will be mounting. It's all key to the sponsors, as you point out. Right now, the sponsors and advertisers are voicing their concern and distancing themselves from the NFL. But they are in the main keeping their contracts in place.

If they start to back out of those contracts to do something that concrete, then the pressure is going to be enormous on Mr. Goodell.

TAPPER: Fran Tarkenton, legendary Minnesota Vikings Hall of Famer, let me ask you, you're perhaps the most outspoken that we've spoken to today on CNN about the domestic violence problem in the NFL. What do you want fans to do?

FRANKENTON: What do I want fans to do?

TAPPER: Yes.

FRANKENTON: I think they should start writing letters, writing e- mails and stop going to games.

Again, Roger Goodell getting fired is not going to solve the problem. The problem is going to be solved by 32 owners who control the National Football League. I've only heard from a couple of them. The owner from the Baltimore Ravens who made that -- came out and finally cut the player from his team which he has the power to do.

The owners of the Minnesota Vikings were going to play Adrian Peterson. They came back and said, we made a mistake. They said they were going to terminate him but pay him until due process.

That's the right thing to do. I want to see owners to do.

The only way to bring change about in anything is when we have a sense of desperation. We should have, as the American public, we should have a sense of desperation in dealing with this. The owners should have a sense of desperation in dealing with this. When players are accused of this, they should not be able to play until the process goes through. They can pay them. They got plenty of money to pay them. But to wait until the Super Bowl -- we're going to get all these committees -- when did committees solve any problems? Committees have never solve any problems and they won't in this situation.

TAPPER: Jeffrey, you're hearing one of the most impassioned, skeptical voices of the NFL -- against the NFL and how they've been reacting from a legendary NFL player. But I have to say, I imagine that the owners will do the very least that they have to do.

TOOBIN: Right. But the owners are not impervious to pressure from the outside. If fans genuinely rebel -- and let's just say this has been in public for several weeks, there has not been a decline in ratings that is noticeable. There's not been a decline in attendance at NFL games. And for all the brave talk from sponsors, the actual money is still going into the pockets of the NFL owners -- in the vast majority of cases.

If I could just add one point -- you know, Anheuser-Busch is getting all sanctimonious about the NFL. If we want to talk about domestic violence in this country, and the influence of alcohol on domestic violence, it makes the NFL pale in comparison.