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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Is It Time For A Travel Ban?; Ebola Search Widens In Ohio; CDC: Nurse Might Have Been Ill Friday; An ISIS Air Force?; Hunter Biden Tested Positive For Cocaine

Aired October 17, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Our national lead -- should federal officials ban travel to the United States from the nations hit hardest by the Ebola virus? Well, it's a complicated debate for many, and not just if you're the one holding the boarding pass.

The White House says a ban could lead to more problems, that people might hide their travel history and get on the plane anyway. But some lawmakers, Democrats and Republicans, are demanding a ban.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOVERNOR RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: It is the right policy to ban air travel from countries that have been hit hardest by the Ebola outbreak.

REPRESENTATIVE STEVE SCALISE (R), LOUISIANA: Urging the president to immediately institute a travel ban.

REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS: The question is, why the executive branch and why the agency will not exercise that authority.

REPRESENTATIVE RENEE ELLMERS (R), NORTH CAROLINA: I believe travel restrictions need to be put in place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very much in favor of travel restrictions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should not be allowing these folks in, period.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: CNN's Tom Foreman is examining the issue. Would a travel ban produce results and can we live with those results?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There are at least three clear ways to look at a travel ban and all suggest that this very popular idea would also be hugely problematic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (voice-over): The first key question, can a travel ban even be implemented? Legally, of course, the United States has a right to control who enters the country. But there are no flights out of the hottest part of the Ebola zone to the United States.

Most travelers from West Africa pass through other airports in other countries, maybe stopping for hours or days before continuing to America. So any ban would have to include tracking massive numbers of flyers all over the globe for weeks at a time, and potentially disrupting global trade, diplomatic relations and more.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Closing off travel to the United States is not only technically difficult, but it also stops the flow of people and goods and commerce that are relevant to who we are as a society.

FOREMAN: Question two, would a ban work? The incubation period for Ebola is long enough, up to three weeks, that if a chain of infection became established from someone in the hot zone to outside of it. The disease could easily migrate to America around the ban.

What's more the administration's concern, a ban could force people into hiding their true travel history, slipping into America anyway. Then --

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: They're less likely to get treated properly, screened properly, quarantined properly, and as a consequence, we could end up having more cases rather than less.

FOREMAN: And could a smaller measure prove effective, such as denying visas to people who live in the hardest-hit countries? Maybe. But thousands of people have dual citizenships and many others are working in the hot zone but hold passports from other places.

KAYYEM: So there's going to be all sorts of exceptions to closing off the visa process, which are still going to make us vulnerable if someone comes here with Ebola.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: So maybe they could find a way to make this work. And, yes, it is hugely popular. But it's worth recalling during the SARS epidemic some ten years ago involving a disease that is much more easily spread than Ebola. Canada tried a travel ban and eventually it was found that that was very costly and ineffective -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Tom Foreman taking a closer look. Thank you.

She was traveling to plan a wedding, but ended up triggering an Ebola scare that is closing schools now in her home state. We'll get the latest from officials in Akron, Ohio, coming up.

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We're outside the National Institutes of Health Building 10 where one of the Ebola patients is being treated, hopefully successfully. Continuing with our National Lead, it was a trip home to plan one of the biggest days of her life. And at the time, nurse, bride-to-be and Ebola patient, Amber

Vinson, had no idea that one visit would spark a scare in two states. Two schools in Northeast Ohio have since shut down after it was uncovered that a staff member was on the same plane as Vinson.

So did the bridal shop in Akron, Ohio, where Vinson tried on wedding gowns. Joining me now live is Summit County Public Health Medical Director Dr. Margo Erme.

Dr. Erme, thanks so much for joining us. First of all, just basic question, is anyone in your community showing any symptoms at all of possible Ebola?

DR. MARGO ERME, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, SUMMIT COUNTY, OHIO PUBLIC HEALTH: No. We do not have any cases of Ebola virus disease in the community, and we also have monitored our contacts to the sick health care worker and none of them have shown any signs of any illness.

TAPPER: Well, that's great news. It's been reported that officials in your county are looking for shoppers who may have been at that Akron bridal store that Amber Vinson visited over the weekend. To your knowledge, have any of those people been located?

ERME: Well, we have had people call in. We are looking for people who had gone to the bridal shop during a very specified time period. And in consultation with the Ohio Department of Health and the CDC, it was recommended that we extend to talk to people who had been there so that we can assess what their possible exposure and risk and provide some guidance to them.

TAPPER: The CDC indicated yesterday that Amber Vinson was showing symptoms perhaps as far back as Friday. That's earlier than we thought. We're told that while her uncle disputed that, of course, while talking to CNN's Don Lemon, saying she didn't start showing symptoms until Tuesday, the day she was diagnosed with Ebola back in Texas.

Can you explain to us and tell us which account is true, if you know, and what is the significance if she was already sick when she boarded her plane?

ERME: Well, what is the definition of symptoms are and what kind of symptoms? We've always had this constellation of symptoms that we associate with the Ebola virus. And the people that we have talked to, her family, her friends, have all said she did not appear ill.

But we had also heard that the day before she left, she just felt funny and not specific, not a headache, not feeling nausea, vomiting or diarrhea. And that nonspecific symptom, the CDC wasn't quite sure whether that might have indicated.

And even when she went to the hospital, her symptoms, we were told, were not typical. But when they did some blood work, looking at some blood studies then they had some indication that maybe she was sick.

And because this is different than the other two -- the presentation is different than the other two cases they are doing an abundance of caution trying to make sure that we do not miss anybody.

TAPPER: Let me ask you a question as the director of public health in Summit County. If the worst were the happen and obviously we hope it does not happen. But if somebody in your area is diagnosed with Ebola, would you feel comfortable having that patient treated at one of your local hospitals or do you think he or she would best go to one of the four Ebola-ready hospitals, like Emory or NIH?

ERME: And actually I'm medical director, not health director.

TAPPER: Sorry.

ERME: We have talked to the hospitals and I think one of the things that we need to be prepared for is not just in this situation where you have contact that you're monitoring -- and we hope nobody gets ill -- but also anybody that's just walking in unknown.

And you have to look at the fact that people at health care facilities have to be prepared. Now, as to the kind of treatment and where that treatment should be, I think a lot of it depends on the preparedness of the facility, the staff, the illness of the person and what kind of treatment is available.

I know they have transferred and probably will continue transferring at the present time. But if we were to have more cases in the country than would exceed the capacity of those four places, I think health care facilities need to be prepared.

We were prepared for pandemic flu, smallpox, SARS was mentioned. We deal with communicable diseases every day. And I think that where a person ultimately gets treatment will depend on what we know about that treatment and where that treatment might best be given.

But I think every hospital needs to be prepared for that unknown. It's easy to be prepared when you know something might happen. But not when there's an unknown and that's what we have to be prepared for.

TAPPER: And let me ask you, Dr. Erme, we were supposed to have you on with the mayor of Akron. But I understand you had some sort of disagreement with him about what the proper health procedures are. Can you explain what your disagreement was about?

ERME: Well, we had a spirited discussion on where an infected Ebola patient ought to be treated, just like you asked here. And I gave my opinion based on our discussions with the hospital and the CDC and the Ohio Department of Health, knowing that we do not have any Ebola cases here.

And he offered a differing opinion and that's been debated in the news all along. And I think that action is important because there's probably not -- there's probably something good in each one. And actually coming to a discussion as opposed to just keeping it inside, I think is very important.

I think everything has to be laid out on the table as we're looking at how we're going to prepare for this disease, not only here, but also other places. I'm sure the discussion occurred in Dallas as well among different officials.

TAPPER: I think it's important for those discussions and debates to be held in public view. I appreciate your coming on, Doctor. Thank you so much for your time and best of luck. And I hope you continue to have no cases at all in Ohio. Thank you.

ERME: So do I. Thank you very much.

TAPPER: Still ahead, an ISIS air force? Iraqi pilots are reportedly helping the terrorist group get off the ground.

And his father is drug warrior, but Hunter Biden is out of the Navy after testing positive for cocaine. Is this the end of that story or is it just the beginning?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: A new report from the Syrian observatory for human rights claims that ISIS now has three of its own warplanes in Syria. Former Iraqi military officers are teaching members of ISIS how to fly the jets.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is on the Turkish border with Syria. Nick, we should point out, the Pentagon disputes this report. But from your reporting, is an ISIS air force taking shape?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's pretty far away, frankly, if that report is true, talking about three warplanes flying low around one air base to the east of the main town of Aleppo in the north of the country, held by ISIS for a while.

They posted their militants alongside airplanes they've captured and yes, it's possible that they are being taught by ex-Iraqi Air Force pilots how to fly them. That's a whole world away from the maintenance, munitions and the complications you need for a ground attack.

And in the skies over Syria, they're going to run into coalition air forces, including the U.S. and of course, they're not going to perceive those pretty old planes as much of a threat -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Nick, the coalition has been stepping up its airstrikes near Kobani where you are, that part of the world. Are these attacks helping roll back the terrorists of ISIS at all?

PATON: It's pretty hard to see a substantial change on the ground. A week ago, we were talking about ISIS pushing the Kurds into northwest corner of Kobani and then we now 60 strikes in the last four days alone. That's a huge amount of airpower.

Now we are talking about the Kurds saying they have about 80 percent of the city back under their control, fighting reported in the far eastern south. Places that used to be ISIS strongholds. I spoke to the political leader of the Syrian Kurds on the phone earlier today.

He said he was very thankful for U.S. coalition airpower for holding back ISIS there. But pointed out unless they get weapons and anti-tank capability, they're going to find it hard to hold that city.

Remember, ISIS isn't following a conventional timetable set for the coalition and the media focusing on that particular city. They may come back in months. And it's possible it could still fall as a city -- Jake.

TAPPER: Nick Paton Walsh on the border between Turkey and Syria, thank you, my friend. Stay safe.

Still ahead, his father champions the war on drugs, but Hunter Biden's career as an actual warrior is over because of use of cocaine. We'll have details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We are turning now to our Politics Lead, Vice President Joe Biden's younger son, Hunter, admits he used cocaine after he was busted during a random drug test. It led to his discharge from the naval reserves, which he joined fewer than two years ago.

Matt Bai is the national political columnist for Yahoo! News. His new book "All The Truth Is Out" takes a fresh look at the scandal that sank Gary Hart's 1988 presidential bid and takes a look at what the media should and should not be covering.

And I should say, Matt, I love this book. It was fascinating. Anybody who likes politics or is interested in the media and the ethical dilemmas should read it. Let me tell you me ask you, based on the philosophy you've developed writing this book, is the Hunter Biden story a legitimate story?

MATT BAI, AUTHOR, ALL THE TRUTH IS OUT": It's a story. I don't know hunter. I only know what I read in the papers today, but the process of doing this book has made me think deeply about some of this stuff. My kids are going to make mistakes in their life. Yours will as well.

I hope they don't hurt anybody or humiliate themselves in some way. But I would like to think they wouldn't be completely defined by those mistakes. And Bob Carey said, we're not the worst things we've ever done in our lives.

We've created a culture, a scandal in the media that does make you the worst moment of your life. It's that that I'm really reflecting on in the book.

TAPPER: It's very interesting. One of my producers pointed out that even if one buys your premise and everything changed with the Gary Hart scandal, everything would have changed anyway, he argues because of the creation of campaign trackers, which I first notice when Bloomberg was first running for mayor.

And people started following him around with cameras, you have the George Allen incident and all sorts of -- so campaign operatives would have filled that void if the media hadn't --

BAI: It wouldn't have taken that long. My premise is not that absent Gary Hart or the Miami Herald, we'd live in a different world. It's the opposite. We've blamed him for his own downfall for inviting us into the bedrooms of politicians.

When the reality is there were all these forces coming into the culture that were going to push politics more toward entertainment, politicians of celebrities and then essentially that transition was going to happen -- somebody was going to walk into it.

Where I revised the history is I think Hart was just the guy to walk into something much larger than about him and I think it was much larger than "The Herald."

TAPPER: And yet very quickly, if you could, President Clinton obviously, kind of the exception that proves the rule. He survived many of these scandals, but maybe he would not have been president if Hart hadn't been there first.

BAI: That's probably true and people say, well, maybe we just learned to process it differently, but I feel a little differently. I think what we did was create a culture -- a political culture where the person who gets rewarded is the one who can up the skate live, persuade, drag their family through any level of evasiveness, the scrutiny and share all the details.

Whereas the guy who says, I'm going to draw lines. I don't believe this is anybody's business and I'm not going to grovel for your forgiveness, has to leave and never come back. And I'm not sure that benefits the country.

TAPPER: It's a fantastic book and everyone should read it. That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Have a wonderful weekend. "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer is next.