Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

UNC Admits To Massive Cheating Scandal; Leaked Evidence Fuels Tension In Ferguson; Possible Ebola Case In New York City; Dead Heat In New Hampshire Senate Race

Aired October 23, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN: And our Sara Ganim busted the story wide open. She joins us now from gorgeous Chapel Hill, North Carolina -- Sarah.

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, as you know, the University of North Carolina has insisted for years that this was not an athletic scandal. Well, it now appears to be one of the biggest and most elaborate academic fraud cases in the history of college sports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM (voice-over): Top-notch teams alongside excellent academics, that's been the foundation of UNC's national reputation. But the school is now admitting to a widespread fraud, keeping athletes eligible by enrolling them in fake classes.

CAROL FOLT, CHANCELLOR, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA: The length of time that this behavior went on and the number of people involved is really shocking.

GANIM: Whistle-blower Mary Willingham, a tutor to athletes, told CNN in January that UNC had not owned up to the full scope of the scandal. UNC immediately tried to shut her down, attacking her credibility.

MARY WILLINGHAM, UNC WHISTLEBLOWER: It wasn't just my colleagues in the athletic department that were mad at me, angry with me. It was the BOT, the Board of Trustees that was so angry with me.

GANIM: Now an independent report has confirmed her claims that many people knew about the fraud and that it lasted for more years than originally thought.

KEN WAINSTE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: They were glaring deficiencies in overnight.

GANIM: An independent report commissioned by UNC found that 3,100 students took so-called paper classes, students never had to go to class, only write a paper and they always received a good grade. Counselors steered the athletes to the classes so they could remain eligible to play.

KEN WAINSTEIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: They were, in their terms, GPA boosters. They knew these were classes that gave disproportionately high grades regardless of quality. GANIM: The university had previously said the paper classes were the work of one rogue professor, head of the Afro-American Studies Program, Julius Niangaro. But the report says it's actually his assistant, Debbie Crowder, who masterminded the whole system out of sympathy for students who were, quote, "not the best and the brightest."

Three of the national basketball championships the team won could now be in jeopardy. And while the news has this prestigious school and its proud alumni reeling, it comes as no surprise to Mary Willingham.

WILLINGHAM: What's really upsetting still, we still have athletes here at Carolina and across the country that aren't getting the real education that we're promising them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GANIM: Jake, because of what was released yesterday, four people were fired. Five more disciplined. Many others have left since the scandal broke a few years ago. Some of them landed pretty good jobs. One of them works right now in academics at Cornell.

TAPPER: Sara Ganim, thank you so much.

Turning back to more national news, a city still on edge ten weeks after the killing of unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, now Attorney General Eric Holder is saying he is exasperated by leaks to the media. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. The national lead now, the details have been debated and scrutinized for months about the shooting death of Michael Brown By Officer Darren Wilson.

While many opinions were formed based largely on eyewitness accounts, we are now learning about some of the forensic evidence in the case. And frankly, it's not sitting well with some in the community who took to the streets last night to question the fairness of the justice system.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): Raising new ire in Ferguson, frustration over leaks about the official autopsy results and alleged testimony from unnamed witnesses. Its ire expressed at the highest levels of the U.S. Justice Department where Attorney General Eric Holder called the leaks inappropriate and troubling since they come while the grand jury is still convening and before the federal investigation has concluded.

The leaks include the official autopsy reported by the "St. Louis Post Dispatch," suggesting there was a struggle inside Officer Wilson's vehicle. Michael Brown's blood was found in the car and on Wilson's uniform.

Brown's gunshot wounds included a shot in the hand at close range, which could support the theory brown was trying to grab Wilson's gun when the first bullets were fired.

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: If there is any amount of force used against the officer, then we begin to see some justification for that officer using deadly force.

TAPPER: The "Post Dispatch" also quoted a source with knowledge of Wilson's statement saying the police officer, quote, "told investigators that in a struggle for his pistol inside a police SUV, Michael Brown pressed the barrel of Wilson's gun against the officer's hip." This is disputed by many witnesses who charge that Wilson was the aggressor.

DORIAN JOHNSON, BROWN SHOOTING WITNESS: He grabbed onto my friend and trying to pull him in the vehicle. And my friend, Big Mike, very angrily is trying to pull away from the officer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn't look like at all a struggle for a gun. It just appeared to be the police officer trying to manipulate the young man into his vehicle.

TAPPER: But not all of the witnesses are on Michael Brown's side. "The Washington Post" reported that, quote, "more than a half dozen unnamed black witnesses have provided testimony to a St. Louis grand jury that largely supports Wilson's account of events. The Brown family and its attorneys take issue with the selective release of information.

DARYL PARKS, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: I think it's a slow wrongful attempt, one, to defame the name of Michael Brown, two, to defame the public's trust in the process. It's very ironic that all this evidence comes out the same week. It's all not in Michael Brown's favor.

TAPPER: While the hands up, don't shoot stance has become a battle cry for Brown supporters, some forensic experts say the official autopsy, specifically the path of the sixth shot into Brown's forearm, suggests that Brown's palms were not facing the officer when he was shot.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC EXPERT, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: Based upon the positioning of the wounds, it's just inconsistent with him having his hands up.

TAPPER: This in contrast with the experts hired by the Brown family for an independent autopsy weeks ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One thing to keep in mind is that the arm is a very movable part of the body so those shots can be produced with the arm being in different positions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: A Justice Department official told CNN's Evan Perez that Attorney General Holder told lawyers he's, quote, "exasperated at the selective flow of information coming out of Missouri."

Many of Michael Brown's supporters agree the leaks are doing more harm than good and they say the leaks so far have only told one side of the story.

Joining me from now Ferguson is Missouri State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal. She's been an outspoken supporter of the Brown family. Senator, good to see you as always.

Can I first get your reaction to some of this new evidence being leaked to "The Post Dispatch" and "The Washington Post," the autopsy, the blood found on Officer Wilson's gun and uniform, does this new information change anything for you?

Maria Chappelle-Nadal, MISSOURI STATE SENATE: In fact, it doesn't change anything at all nor for my constituents. Right now, my constituents feel as though this information that has been leaked is merely out in public to incite the community.

From the very beginning, I've always said that there is a cultural disconnect between police officers and this community. Minority communities that are hurting right now.

And so one of the things that has been told to me time and time again with this new information is that people are wondering, why now? For the last month and a half, people have been talking about not having an indictment whatsoever.

So that's been a very clear conversation from the very beginning, at least the middle of this entire ordeal. And to give that information out right now, the feeling among my constituents is that certain authorities are trying to incite this community instead of bringing peace.

We do want to have full transparency. But at the same time what this community needs is some understanding at least from the side from police officers, it is not clear on what everything else is going on.

TAPPER: Senator, obviously I don't know the motivations of those sharing this information from close to the process or in the process, but is it possible that it's actually the opposite motivation, that they don't want to incite the community.

They want to prepare the community for the fact that there possibly won't be an indictment of Officer Wilson? I'm not justifying. But isn't that possible, that that's the reason?

CHAPELLE-NADAL: I understand the approach that the authorities are trying to present right now, giving out information slowly but surely. But since this has been a conversation for at least six weeks, maybe eight weeks at this point, it's not new information for this community.

We have been talking ongoing about there not being an indictment whatsoever so that means this information that's coming out, that is purely one-sided and not only one-sided, but inconclusive to the entire time line.

We have to figure out what is going to happen when this announcement is made. What should have happened since day one is we should have had counselors out in the streets and psychologists because this community is experiencing PTSD right now.

And frankly, I think some officers are, too. So instead of inciting this community, this community needs to have supports in place so they can deal with the announcement that happens later on in the coming weeks.

TAPPER: All right, State Senator Maria Chappelle-Nadal, thank you for joining us.

CHAPELLE-NADAL: Thank you.

TAPPER: Coming up on THE LEAD, some new breaking developments in that possible new Ebola case. The CDC is now rushing a team to take a look at a new patient who is showing possible symptoms at a New York City hospital. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. More breaking news on the Ebola front, CNN's senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is on the phone.

Elizabeth, let's talk about this new possible case in New York, this "Doctors Without Borders" physician who got back from West Africa ten days ago, now at Bellevue Hospital. What are your sources at CDC telling you?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I'm hearing from an official that members of the CDC are packing up. They are packing up, getting ready to go to New York. Usually what they do in a situation like this is they send disease detectives.

They will follow up with people they've had contact with, see if they're getting sick, give instructions on how to monitor themselves and quarantine them if necessary.

And ever since the incidents in Dallas over the past few weeks, they will also, I'm sure, be concerned with those at Bellevue and make sure that they're using the right protective gear.

Now what we know about this doctor is that he works for "Doctors Without Borders" and according to the New York City Health Department, they tweeted that he recently returned from Guinea, one of the three Ebola hot spots.

TAPPER: All right, Elizabeth Cohen, we'll stay on top of the story. Thank you so much.

Now it's time for the Politics Lead, we are just 12 days away from those midterm elections in which so much is up for grabs. Republicans need to gain at least six seats to control the Senate. There are a number of tight races across the country.

One of the most interesting is in the granite state of New Hampshire where a new CNN/ORC poll shows a virtual tie between incumbent Democratic Senator Jean Shaheen and former senator from Massachusetts, Republican Scott Brown.

Brown, of course, just from the neighboring state to the south, he's bidding to return to the U.S. Senate from his adopted home state, where I believe he's originally from.

CNN Dana Bash is following the contest. Dana, what's the biggest factor that's led to this incredibly tight race?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Barack Obama, without a doubt. Not only did the president win twice here in 2008 and 2012, two years ago, he did so pretty handily. Now our new poll shows he is under water big-time, under 40 percent, when it comes to his approval.

That, according to sources in both parties, Democrats admit this too, is the single biggest factor pulling Jean Shaheen down. It was only a couple of months ago that most polls showed Scott Brown trailing by double digits.

But he's done everything he can to tie her to the president. He's funny. I talked to him yesterday. He barely speaks a sentence without saying, she voted with the president 99 percent of the time. She's trying to make it local.

He's trying to make it national. She says, this is a purple state. It was always going to be close, but even Republicans are surprised at how close he's come here.

TAPPER: And what has been his major line of attacks? We covered this race a few weeks ago. He was talking a lot about ISIS and Jean Shaheen missing a key meeting on ISIS. President Obama, Jean Shaheen not understanding the threat from ISIS. Is that what he's still talking about?

BASH: Yes, absolutely still talking about immigration, about ISIS, about Ebola, trying to nationalize it in that -- he's trying to link those crises to the idea that government isn't working, the government is broken, while she insisted to me that nobody comes up to her and talks about national issues.

It's all about local issues and you can't underscore that enough. She is still popular, despite the president's lack of popularity. And she is known for her constituent services. That combined with Democrats get out the vote operation could save her in the end.

TAPPER: All right, Dana Bash, thank you so much. This programming note, speaking of New Hampshire, be sure to logon to cnn.com tonight at 7:00. Wolf Blitzer will be moderating a one-hour debate between former Senator Brown and Senator Shaheen. The debate will live stream on the web and air at 11:00 p.m.

Eastern on CNN. More breaking news this hour, we're just getting word of a midair collision at an airport in Maryland involving a plane and a helicopter. We'll have those details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Other breaking news, you're looking at live pictures coming from WJLA, they're from Maryland. A helicopter and a small plane collided in midair over Fredrick Municipal Airport. Three people reported dead.

Rene Marsh is here with more details. This crash happened a little over an hour ago. What can you tell us?

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jake. Just a short time ago this all unfolded, what we know now is a small general aviation aircraft and a helicopter it appears the two collided midair. We do know that it happened at a municipal airport in Maryland just outside of Washington, D.C.

Again, we're told this was a midair collision. According to the Frederick County fire chief, three are dead. Now let's look at the video here. You can see one of the two aircrafts involved is a modern four-seat single engine aircraft.

What is unique about this plane is that it is built with a parachute. That's what you're seeing dangling from the back of the plane there. In the event of an emergency, that parachute deploys and the plane lands via the parachute.

To recap, Frederick County Fire Chief tells us three people are dead after it appears a small general aviation aircraft collided midair with a helicopter and this just happening a little over an hour ago. As we get more details, we'll send it along.

TAPPER: Rene, I know the information is just coming in. Is there anything we know about the pilots, anything we know about any possible survivors, what other information are the local fire and rescue authorities sharing?

MARSH: We do have some information. We're holding onto it right now because this is so fresh, it is unclear if next of kin has been identified. So we do know a little bit more about the individuals who were inside of the aircraft, but, again, holding onto that until family members are notified.

TAPPER: Rene Marsh, thank you so much. I know you'll continue to stay on top of the story as CNN continues to cover it and new developments and new information is able to be reported.

Follow me on Twitter. Check out our show page at cnn.com/thelead. You can also subscribe to our magazine on Flipboard.

That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. I turn you over to Wolf Blitzer who's in New Hampshire where "THE SITUATION ROOM" has temporarily relocated -- Mr. Blitzer.